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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools

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  • Graham Eyre
    Hi Duncan   Basic tools:- Saw, Mallet, selection of Chisels, Brace and bits, ruler, selection of planes Depending how deep you want to go:- a selecton of Adze
    Message 1 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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      Hi Duncan
       
      Basic tools:- Saw, Mallet, selection of Chisels, Brace and bits, ruler, selection of planes
      Depending how deep you want to go:- a selecton of Adze and Axes.
       
      Very basic and it depends how deep your pockets are depends how authentic these can be. For example the Bits used with a Brace in days of yore would have been Spoon Bits, although crude Augers were available, but were probably not like todays. Spoon Bits are quite expensive to buy today. The saws back then were more like a long pruning saw of today, Japanese heve something very similar, but once again are quite expensive.
       
      Personally I tend to use all the modern tools available to me, especially as I am usually working in my garage by myself, so nobody sees, probably fairly extensive after 40+ years of woodworking. However I am slowly putting together a medieval woodworkers tool chest as and when I can afford to by the authentic tools, as nears as possible anyway. I actuall find it quite challenging and interesting to learn how to use these various tools.
       
      Cheers
       
      Graham

      From: Duncan Sinclair <duncansinclair@...>
      To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2011 7:34 AM
      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools



      I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts and it got me to wondering.... What would everyone recommend for someone starting out in medieval woodworking as far as hand tools?
       
      Thanks,
       
      Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
      Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
      and
      The Barony of Sternfeld
      Middle Kingdom

      Greenwood #514, F&AM




    • leaking pen
      hammer and chisel. On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Duncan Sinclair
      Message 2 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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        hammer and chisel.

        On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Duncan Sinclair <duncansinclair@...> wrote:
         

        I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts and it got me to wondering.... What would everyone recommend for someone starting out in medieval woodworking as far as hand tools?
         
        Thanks,
         
        Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
        Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
        and
        The Barony of Sternfeld
        Middle Kingdom

        Greenwood #514, F&AM

      • Graham Eyre
        Didn t have a hammer as such back then. or at least not for woodworking purposes, Ironwork yes. The first hammer used in woodworking was actually the first
        Message 3 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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          Didn't have a hammer as such back then. or at least not for woodworking purposes, Ironwork yes. The first hammer used in woodworking was actually the first screwdriver. 

          From: leaking pen <itsatrap@...>
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2011 8:03 AM
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools



          hammer and chisel.

          On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Duncan Sinclair <duncansinclair@...> wrote:
           
          I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts and it got me to wondering.... What would everyone recommend for someone starting out in medieval woodworking as far as hand tools?
           
          Thanks,
           
          Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
          Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
          and
          The Barony of Sternfeld
          Middle Kingdom

          Greenwood #514, F&AM





        • leaking pen
          I should have said mallet, my pardon! Very good point Graham, thank you. Alex
          Message 4 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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            I should have said mallet, my pardon! Very good point Graham, thank you.

            Alex

            On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 1:07 PM, Graham Eyre <geyre@...> wrote:
             

            Didn't have a hammer as such back then. or at least not for woodworking purposes, Ironwork yes. The first hammer used in woodworking was actually the first screwdriver. 

            From: leaking pen <itsatrap@...>
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2011 8:03 AM
            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools



            hammer and chisel.

            On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:34 PM, Duncan Sinclair <duncansinclair@...> wrote:
             
            I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts and it got me to wondering.... What would everyone recommend for someone starting out in medieval woodworking as far as hand tools?
             
            Thanks,
             
            Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
            Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
            and
            The Barony of Sternfeld
            Middle Kingdom

            Greenwood #514, F&AM






          • Duncan Sinclair
            Thanks Grahmn. I too prefer my magic boxes as I am working in my basement shop alone. However, I am thinking I would like a period kit to take to some SCA
            Message 5 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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              Thanks Grahmn. I too prefer my magic boxes as I am working in my basement shop alone. However, I am thinking I would like a period kit to take to some SCA events.
               
              Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
              Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
              and
              The Barony of Sternfeld
              Middle Kingdom

              Greenwood #514, F&AM

              From: Graham Eyre <geyre@...>
              To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:00 PM
              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools

               
              Hi Duncan
               
              Basic tools:- Saw, Mallet, selection of Chisels, Brace and bits, ruler, selection of planes
              Depending how deep you want to go:- a selecton of Adze and Axes.
               
              Very basic and it depends how deep your pockets are depends how authentic these can be. For example the Bits used with a Brace in days of yore would have been Spoon Bits, although crude Augers were available, but were probably not like todays. Spoon Bits are quite expensive to buy today. The saws back then were more like a long pruning saw of today, Japanese heve something very similar, but once again are quite expensive.
               
              Personally I tend to use all the modern tools available to me, especially as I am usually working in my garage by myself, so nobody sees, probably fairly extensive after 40+ years of woodworking. However I am slowly putting together a medieval woodworkers tool chest as and when I can afford to by the authentic tools, as nears as possible anyway. I actuall find it quite challenging and interesting to learn how to use these various tools.
               
              Cheers
               
              Graham

              From: Duncan Sinclair <duncansinclair@...>
              To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2011 7:34 AM
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools



              I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts and it got me to wondering.... What would everyone recommend for someone starting out in medieval woodworking as far as hand tools?
               
              Thanks,
               
              Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
              Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
              and
              The Barony of Sternfeld
              Middle Kingdom

              Greenwood #514, F&AM






            • Jim Hart
              Can t really answer that without knowing what are you wanting to make? Other than the basic tools.....Hammer, saw, chisels, plane, straight edge/ruler,
              Message 6 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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                Can't really answer that without knowing what are you wanting to make?

                Other than the basic tools.....Hammer, saw, chisels, plane, straight edge/ruler, square......

                On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Duncan Sinclair <duncansinclair@...> wrote:
                 

                I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts and it got me to wondering.... What would everyone recommend for someone starting out in medieval woodworking as far as hand tools?
                 
                Thanks,
                 
                Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
                Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
                and
                The Barony of Sternfeld
                Middle Kingdom

                Greenwood #514, F&AM




                --
                Jim Hart
                  Conal OhAirt

                Aude Aliquid Digmun - dare something worthy
              • Peter Ellison
                Personally I have been switch to hand tools because I enjoy the slower pace, I work with wood for fun, the journey is the purpose. There is a good book The
                Message 7 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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                  Personally I have been switch to hand tools because I enjoy the slower pace, I work with wood for fun, the journey is the purpose.

                  There is a good book "The Anarchist’s Tool Chest" that lays out a basic set of hand tools for making 1800's furniture.  Lost Art Press is the publisher.  While I don't a 100% agree with him it is a pretty good starting point.  You don't need every tool in there, start with the basics.

                  I have been found that I like to make tools, and then put the tools I have made to use.  So many of my first projects have been to make increasingly complex tools.

                  My first hand tools:
                  A 1960's era iron hand plane a 12" Jack plane,  a couple of cheap chisels, and a "Fat Max" handsaw, and a cheap back saw, lots of sand paper and a marble tile for the "Scary sharp system).

                  Coupled with some other power tools I already had (a miter saw and a belt sanderI have been able to start to amass a collection of tools that I made.

                  The most useful tool I have made to date is a "saw bench" it is a cut down 2x10 into a bench for sawing on.

                  Start with a simple little project like a marking gauge.

                  That needs a plane, a saw, and a chisel.  A rasp or file is helpful, so is a drill but not really need, and a small block of wood to cut the project out of.  The Mary Rose has a good drawing of one (pre-documented projects are good :-)

                  One other side note, chisels need to be sharpened, even new ones, this is possible by hand but personally I find it the worst part of the project.  If you can find someone who has a sharpening system to help you get the first good edge on the chisel ...


                  Peter Petrovitch
                  > Can't really answer that without knowing what are you wanting to make?
                  >
                  > Other than the basic tools.....Hammer, saw, chisels, plane, straight
                  > edge/ruler, square......
                  >
                  > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Duncan Sinclair <
                  > duncansinclair@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> **
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts and it got me to wondering....
                  >> What would everyone recommend for someone starting out in
                  >> medievalwoodworking as far as hand tools?
                  >>
                  >> Thanks,
                  >>
                  >> Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
                  >> Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
                  >> and
                  >> The Barony of Sternfeld
                  >> Middle Kingdom
                  >>
                  >> Greenwood #514, F&AM
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >

                  >
                  > --
                  > Jim Hart
                  > Conal OhAirt
                  />>
                  > Aude Aliquid Digmun - *dare something worthy*
                  >
                • Eric
                  I m going to second part of this post. If you re switching to hand tools, then you definately want to get good at sharpening. Whether a water stone, oil
                  Message 8 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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                    I'm going to second part of this post. If you're switching to hand tools, then you definately want to get good at sharpening. Whether a water stone, oil stone, composite diamond stone, or something like the Scary Sharp system, get something and learn how to use it. A sharp hand tool is more enjoyable to use and safer too.

                    Eirikr

                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Ellison" <pellison@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Personally I have been switch to hand tools because I enjoy the slower
                    > pace, I work with wood for fun, the journey is the purpose....
                    >
                    >
                    > My
                    > first hand tools:
                    > A 1960's era iron hand plane a 12" Jack
                    > plane,  a couple of cheap chisels, and a "Fat Max" handsaw,
                    > and a cheap back saw, lots of sand paper and a marble tile for the
                    > "Scary sharp system)....
                    >
                    >
                    > One other
                    > side note, chisels need to be sharpened, even new ones, this is possible
                    > by hand but personally I find it the worst part of the project.  If
                    > you can find someone who has a sharpening system to help you get the first
                    > good edge on the chisel ...
                    >
                    >
                    > Peter Petrovitch
                    > Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Duncan Sinclair <
                    > >
                    > duncansinclair@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >> **
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> I have enjoyed reading everyone's
                    > posts and it got me to wondering....
                    > >> What would everyone
                    > recommend for someone starting out in
                    > >> medievalwoodworking as
                    > far as hand tools?
                    > >>
                    > >> Thanks,
                    > >>
                    > >> Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
                    > >> Shire of
                    > Qal 'at Ja'far
                    > >> and
                    > >> The Barony of Sternfeld
                    > >> Middle Kingdom
                    > >>
                    > >> Greenwood #514,
                    > F&AM
                    > >>
                  • Graham Eyre
                    Hey Peter   I agree with you, when I retire I intend to do something similar. However not sure how I would go about making something like a Brace, Wooden
                    Message 9 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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                      Hey Peter
                       
                      I agree with you, when I retire I intend to do something similar. However not sure how I would go about making something like a Brace, Wooden Block and Smoothing Planes are comaratively easy as I have done that before.
                       
                      Cheers
                       
                      Graham

                      From: Peter Ellison <pellison@...>
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2011 10:30 AM
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools



                      Personally I have been switch to hand tools because I enjoy the slower pace, I work with wood for fun, the journey is the purpose.

                      There is a good book "The Anarchist’s Tool Chest" that lays out a basic set of hand tools for making 1800's furniture.  Lost Art Press is the publisher.  While I don't a 100% agree with him it is a pretty good starting point.  You don't need every tool in there, start with the basics.

                      I have been found that I like to make tools, and then put the tools I have made to use.  So many of my first projects have been to make increasingly complex tools.

                      My first hand tools:
                      A 1960's era iron hand plane a 12" Jack plane,  a couple of cheap chisels, and a "Fat Max" handsaw, and a cheap back saw, lots of sand paper and a marble tile for the "Scary sharp system).

                      Coupled with some other power tools I already had (a miter saw and a belt sanderI have been able to start to amass a collection of tools that I made.

                      The most useful tool I have made to date is a "saw bench" it is a cut down 2x10 into a bench for sawing on.

                      Start with a simple little project like a marking gauge.

                      That needs a plane, a saw, and a chisel.  A rasp or file is helpful, so is a drill but not really need, and a small block of wood to cut the project out of.  The Mary Rose has a good drawing of one (pre-documented projects are good :-)

                      One other side note, chisels need to be sharpened, even new ones, this is possible by hand but personally I find it the worst part of the project.  If you can find someone who has a sharpening system to help you get the first good edge on the chisel ...


                      Peter Petrovitch
                      > Can't really answer that without knowing what are you wanting to make?
                      >
                      > Other than the basic tools.....Hammer, saw, chisels, plane, straight
                      > edge/ruler,
                      square......
                      >
                      > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Duncan Sinclair <
                      > duncansinclair@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> **
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts and it got me to wondering....
                      >> What would everyone recommend for someone starting out in
                      >> medievalwoodworking as far as hand tools?
                      >>
                      >> Thanks,
                      >>
                      >> Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
                      >> Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
                      >> and
                      >> The Barony of Sternfeld
                      >> Middle Kingdom
                      >>
                      >> Greenwood #514, F&AM
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Jim Hart
                      > Conal OhAirt
                      >
                      > Aude Aliquid Digmun - *dare something worthy*
                      >



                    • Graham Eyre
                      Hey Eric   I know it is cheeting but there are jigs that fit onto a Bench Grinders or a Linishing Machine, which makes life very easy. the hardest part is to
                      Message 10 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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                        Hey Eric
                         
                        I know it is cheeting but there are jigs that fit onto a Bench Grinders or a Linishing Machine, which makes life very easy. the hardest part is to make sure that that to much heat doesnt get into the Chisel or Plane Blade. Also I have a little jig that has a roller on it and the Chisel or Plane Blade can be clamped in and this way there is no chance of getting the wrong angle.
                         
                        Craham

                        From: Eric <ewdysar@...>
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2011 11:48 AM
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Starting hand tools

                        I'm going to second part of this post.  If you're switching to hand tools, then you definately want to get good at sharpening.  Whether a water stone, oil stone, composite diamond stone, or something like the Scary Sharp system, get something and learn how to use it.  A sharp hand tool is more enjoyable to use and safer too.

                        Eirikr

                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Ellison" <pellison@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Personally I have been switch to hand tools because I enjoy the slower
                        > pace, I work with wood for fun, the journey is the purpose....
                        >
                        >
                        > My
                        > first hand tools:
                        > A 1960's era iron hand plane a 12" Jack
                        > plane,  a couple of cheap chisels, and a "Fat Max" handsaw,
                        > and a cheap back saw, lots of sand paper and a marble tile for the
                        > "Scary sharp system)....
                        >
                        >
                        > One other
                        > side note, chisels need to be sharpened, even new ones, this is possible
                        > by hand but personally I find it the worst part of the project.  If
                        > you can find someone who has a sharpening system to help you get the first
                        > good edge on the chisel ...
                        >
                        >
                        > Peter Petrovitch
                        > Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Duncan Sinclair <
                        > >
                        > duncansinclair@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >> **
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> I have enjoyed reading everyone's
                        > posts and it got me to wondering....
                        > >> What would everyone
                        > recommend for someone starting out in
                        > >> medievalwoodworking as
                        > far as hand tools?
                        > >>
                        > >> Thanks,
                        > >>
                        > >> Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
                        > >> Shire of
                        > Qal 'at Ja'far
                        > >> and
                        > >> The Barony of Sternfeld
                        > >> Middle Kingdom
                        > >>
                        > >> Greenwood #514,
                        > F&AM
                        > >>




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                      • nelsonhaynes@aol.com
                        Eric: Congratulations on your decision to try hand tools. Even if you use mostly power tools, the skills you get with hand tools will make you a better all
                        Message 11 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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                          Eric:

                           

                          Congratulations on your decision to try hand tools. Even if you use mostly power tools, the skills you get with hand tools will make you a better all round wood worker.

                           

                          First, Roy Underhill Has a good list of tools for a traditional wood shop: http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/tools/index.html

                           

                          Next look and see what was in the Mastermyr Chest, a Viking Ship Builders tool chest: http://www.irontreeworks.com/mastermyr.htm

                           

                          I would consider joining the Midwest tool collectors association. This is a group of people who really know tools and how to use them. They have a vast amount of knowledge and are very sharing: www.mwtca.org/

                           

                          Finally, learn to sharpen tools. A sharp tool is a joy to use. There are many good methods to explore, but you might try the “scary sharp method” wich is low cost and fairly easy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scary_sharp

                           

                          Good luck on your journey,

                           

                          Master Nigel

                           
                          In a message dated 9/14/2011 7:58:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, geyre@... writes:
                           

                          Hey Eric
                           
                          I know it is cheeting but there are jigs that fit onto a Bench Grinders or a Linishing Machine, which makes life very easy. the hardest part is to make sure that that to much heat doesnt get into the Chisel or Plane Blade. Also I have a little jig that has a roller on it and the Chisel or Plane Blade can be clamped in and this way there is no chance of getting the wrong angle.
                           
                          Craham

                          From: Eric <ewdysar@...>
                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2011 11:48 AM
                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Starting hand tools

                          I'm going to second part of this post.  If you're switching to hand tools, then you definately want to get good at sharpening.  Whether a water stone, oil stone, composite diamond stone, or something like the Scary Sharp system, get something and learn how to use it.  A sharp hand tool is more enjoyable to use and safer too.

                          Eirikr

                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Ellison" <pellison@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Personally I have been switch to hand tools because I enjoy the slower
                          > pace, I work with wood for fun, the journey is the purpose....
                          >
                          >
                          > My
                          > first hand tools:
                          > A 1960's era iron hand plane a 12" Jack
                          > plane,  a couple of cheap chisels, and a "Fat Max" handsaw,
                          > and a cheap back saw, lots of sand paper and a marble tile for the
                          > "Scary sharp system)....
                          >
                          >
                          > One other
                          > side note, chisels need to be sharpened, even new ones, this is possible
                          > by hand but personally I find it the worst part of the project.  If
                          > you can find someone who has a sharpening system to help you get the first
                          > good edge on the chisel ...
                          >
                          >
                          > Peter Petrovitch
                          > Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Duncan Sinclair <
                          > >
                          > duncansinclair@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >> **
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> I have enjoyed reading everyone's
                          > posts and it got me to wondering....
                          > >> What would everyone
                          > recommend for someone starting out in
                          > >> medievalwoodworking as
                          > far as hand tools?
                          > >>
                          > >> Thanks,
                          > >>
                          > >> Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
                          > >> Shire of
                          > Qal 'at Ja'far
                          > >> and
                          > >> The Barony of Sternfeld
                          > >> Middle Kingdom
                          > >>
                          > >> Greenwood #514,
                          > F&AM
                          > >>




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                        • Eric
                          Hi Nigel, Thanks for the encouragement, but it was Duncan that is making the plunge into hand tool ownership. I ve been using hand tools for quite some time
                          Message 12 of 30 , Sep 14, 2011
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                            Hi Nigel,

                            Thanks for the encouragement, but it was Duncan that is making the plunge into hand tool ownership.

                            I've been using hand tools for quite some time and have even had the opportunity to make a few period examples. In the photo section of this group, in the folder "Eirikr's Camp", you can see pictures of the Viking axe and the Mastermyr chest replica that I made. Almost much everything in the pictures of the encampment is stuff that I've made. I don't have pictures of the chisels or spoon bits that I've made. Maybe I'll remember to take a few photos while I'm at the Great Western War in October.
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/photos/album/1171162070/pic/list

                            The Mastermyr Find by Arwidsson and Berg (1983) has provided very detailed information about the extant artifacts related to the find. I used the dimensions and drawings from this book to figure out the lock mechanism when I duplicated it. I based the hinges on my chest on information from the book as well.

                            Finally, I'm a big fan of Mr Underhill, I own five of his books and have seen many of his shows.

                            Eirikr

                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, nelsonhaynes@... wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Eric:
                            > Congratulations on your decision to try hand tools. Even if you use mostly
                            > power tools, the skills you get with hand tools will make you a better all
                            > round wood worker.
                            > First, Roy Underhill Has a good list of tools for a traditional wood shop:
                            > _http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/tools/index.html_
                            > (http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/tools/index.html)
                            > Next look and see what was in the Mastermyr Chest, a Viking Ship Builders
                            > tool chest: _http://www.irontreeworks.com/mastermyr.htm_
                            > (http://www.irontreeworks.com/mastermyr.htm)
                            > I would consider joining the Midwest tool collectors association. This is
                            > a group of people who really know tools and how to use them. They have a
                            > vast amount of knowledge and are very sharing: www.mwtca.org/
                            > Finally, learn to sharpen tools. A sharp tool is a joy to use. There are
                            > many good methods to explore, but you might try the “scary sharp method”
                            > wich is low cost and fairly easy: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scary_sharp_
                            > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scary_sharp)
                            > Good luck on your journey,
                            > Master Nigel
                            >
                            >
                            > > >
                            > > duncansinclair@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >> **
                            > > >>
                            > > >>
                            > > >> I have enjoyed reading everyone's
                            > > posts and it got me to wondering....
                            > > >> What would everyone
                            > > recommend for someone starting out in
                            > > >> medievalwoodworking as
                            > > far as hand tools?
                            > > >>
                            > > >> Thanks,
                            > > >>
                            > > >> Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
                            > > >> Shire of
                            > > Qal 'at Ja'far
                            > > >> and
                            > > >> The Barony of Sternfeld
                            > > >> Middle Kingdom
                            > > >>
                            > > >> Greenwood #514,
                            > > F&AM
                            > > >>
                            >
                            >
                          • Duncan Sinclair
                            Thanks for the advise from everyone! I too have enjoyed St. Roy for some time, but need to probably re-watch a lot of it since it has been some time. I did
                            Message 13 of 30 , Sep 15, 2011
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                              Thanks for the advise from everyone! I too have enjoyed St. Roy for some time, but need to probably re-watch a lot of it since it has been some time. I did just get a copy of "The Mastermyr Find" but have not yet cracked the cover on it. I am hoping to replicate it for A&S competition this spring. Not sure if it will be hand or machinery yet depends on how the time and budget work out :D
                               
                              Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
                              Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
                              and
                              The Barony of Sternfeld
                              Middle Kingdom

                              Greenwood #514, F&AM
                              From: Eric <ewdysar@...>
                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 12:27 AM
                              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Starting hand tools

                               
                              Hi Nigel,

                              Thanks for the encouragement, but it was Duncan that is making the plunge into hand tool ownership.

                              I've been using hand tools for quite some time and have even had the opportunity to make a few period examples. In the photo section of this group, in the folder "Eirikr's Camp", you can see pictures of the Viking axe and the Mastermyr chest replica that I made. Almost much everything in the pictures of the encampment is stuff that I've made. I don't have pictures of the chisels or spoon bits that I've made. Maybe I'll remember to take a few photos while I'm at the Great Western War in October.
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/photos/album/1171162070/pic/list

                              The Mastermyr Find by Arwidsson and Berg (1983) has provided very detailed information about the extant artifacts related to the find. I used the dimensions and drawings from this book to figure out the lock mechanism when I duplicated it. I based the hinges on my chest on information from the book as well.

                              Finally, I'm a big fan of Mr Underhill, I own five of his books and have seen many of his shows.

                              Eirikr

                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, nelsonhaynes@... wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Eric:
                              > Congratulations on your decision to try hand tools. Even if you use mostly
                              > power tools, the skills you get with hand tools will make you a better all
                              > round wood worker.
                              > First, Roy Underhill Has a good list of tools for a traditional wood shop:
                              > _http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/tools/index.html_
                              > (http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/tools/index.html)
                              > Next look and see what was in the Mastermyr Chest, a Viking Ship Builders
                              > tool chest: _http://www.irontreeworks.com/mastermyr.htm_
                              > (http://www.irontreeworks.com/mastermyr.htm)
                              > I would consider joining the Midwest tool collectors association. This is
                              > a group of people who really know tools and how to use them. They have a
                              > vast amount of knowledge and are very sharing: www.mwtca.org/
                              > Finally, learn to sharpen tools. A sharp tool is a joy to use. There are
                              > many good methods to explore, but you might try the “scary sharp method”
                              > wich is low cost and fairly easy: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scary_sharp_
                              > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scary_sharp)
                              > Good luck on your journey,
                              > Master Nigel
                              >
                              >
                              > > >
                              > > duncansinclair@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >> **
                              > > >>
                              > > >>
                              > > >> I have enjoyed reading everyone's
                              > > posts and it got me to wondering....
                              > > >> What would everyone
                              > > recommend for someone starting out in
                              > > >> medievalwoodworking as
                              > > far as hand tools?
                              > > >>
                              > > >> Thanks,
                              > > >>
                              > > >> Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
                              > > >> Shire of
                              > > Qal 'at Ja'far
                              > > >> and
                              > > >> The Barony of Sternfeld
                              > > >> Middle Kingdom
                              > > >>
                              > > >> Greenwood #514,
                              > > F&AM
                              > > >>
                              >
                              >



                            • D. Young
                              The problem with using modern tools is that they produce modern results...usually. Sometimes I will use a chop saw for fast work but a modern saw leaves a
                              Message 14 of 30 , Sep 15, 2011
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                                The problem with using modern tools is that they produce modern results...usually.  

                                Sometimes I will use a chop saw for fast work but a modern saw leaves a modern saw mark.  

                                A modern handplane with a metal base often leaves chatter marks and fairly obvious long lane marks. 

                                A modern drill hole is too perfect, so a dowel tends to fit too easily into the hole.  Hand drilling produces oblong holes, making it a better fit.

                                ...all kinds of examples like this.  Just depends on what your aiming for in terms of the level of your reproduction.

                                On the topic of handtools, there is a Facbook group on historical woodworking I launched.   We have about 110 members roughly. 

                                Tons of photos of period tools, and period images.   Lots of discussion about making, planing, hewing etc.

                                Its called Ancient, Medieval, Rennaissance and Colonial Furniture and Woodenware




                                Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                                     Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                                www.partsandtechnical.com
                                (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                                 



                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                From: geyre@...
                                Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 08:00:07 +1200
                                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools

                                 

                                Hi Duncan
                                 
                                Basic tools:- Saw, Mallet, selection of Chisels, Brace and bits, ruler, selection of planes
                                Depending how deep you want to go:- a selecton of Adze and Axes.
                                 
                                Very basic and it depends how deep your pockets are depends how authentic these can be. For example the Bits used with a Brace in days of yore would have been Spoon Bits, although crude Augers were available, but were probably not like todays. Spoon Bits are quite expensive to buy today. The saws back then were more like a long pruning saw of today, Japanese heve something very similar, but once again are quite expensive.
                                 
                                Personally I tend to use all the modern tools available to me, especially as I am usually working in my garage by myself, so nobody sees, probably fairly extensive after 40+ years of woodworking. However I am slowly putting together a medieval woodworkers tool chest as and when I can afford to by the authentic tools, as nears as possible anyway. I actuall find it quite challenging and interesting to learn how to use these various tools.
                                 
                                Cheers
                                 
                                Graham

                                From: Duncan Sinclair <duncansinclair@...>
                                To: "medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com" <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2011 7:34 AM
                                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools



                                I have enjoyed reading everyone's posts and it got me to wondering.... What would everyone recommend for someone starting out in medieval woodworking as far as hand tools?
                                 
                                Thanks,
                                 
                                Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
                                Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
                                and
                                The Barony of Sternfeld
                                Middle Kingdom

                                Greenwood #514, F&AM





                              • John LaTorre
                                ... x2 The other indispensable tool is a good workbench (if you don t have one already). It can be a heavy solid table to start with, but it s not hard to make
                                Message 15 of 30 , Sep 15, 2011
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                                  Eirikr wrote:

                                  > I'm going to second part of this post. If you're switching to hand tools, then you definately want to get good at sharpening. Whether a water stone, oil stone, composite diamond stone, or something like the Scary Sharp system, get something and learn how to use it. A sharp hand tool is more enjoyable to use and safer too.

                                  x2

                                  The other indispensable tool is a good workbench (if you don't have one
                                  already). It can be a heavy solid table to start with, but it's not hard
                                  to make one, and it will make all your subsequent projects easier.

                                  Johann von Drachenfels
                                  West Kingdom
                                • AlbionWood
                                  So did medieval planes. I have found such marks on almost every piece of medieval furniture I ve had the opportunity to examine. Tim
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Sep 16, 2011
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                                    So did medieval planes. I have found such marks on almost every piece
                                    of medieval furniture I've had the opportunity to examine.

                                    Tim

                                    On 9/15/2011 8:53 AM, D. Young wrote:

                                    > A modern handplane with a metal base often leaves chatter marks and
                                    > fairly obvious long lane marks.
                                  • AlbionWood
                                    x2 - in fact I d say this is the #1 tool to get, none of the other hand tools work without a bench. Holding the work is half the battle. Tim
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Sep 16, 2011
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                                      x2 - in fact I'd say this is the #1 tool to get, none of the other hand
                                      tools work without a bench. Holding the work is half the battle.

                                      Tim

                                      On 9/15/2011 9:39 AM, John LaTorre wrote:

                                      >
                                      > The other indispensable tool is a good workbench (if you don't have one
                                      > already). It can be a heavy solid table to start with, but it's not hard
                                      > to make one, and it will make all your subsequent projects easier.
                                    • D. Young
                                      Tim Yes you are right. I should have clarified. I have several period medieval and colonial planes and replica of them. They dont tend to leave marks other
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Sep 17, 2011
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                                        Tim

                                        Yes you are right.   I should have clarified.

                                        I have several period medieval and colonial planes and replica of them.   They dont tend to leave marks other than start markings.   

                                         I meant long streaking lines that a hard steel soul can tend to leave.   Wooden planes having wooden soles tend not to leave such long sharp lines.  

                                        Drew



                                        Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                                             Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                                        www.partsandtechnical.com
                                        (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                                         



                                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: albionwood@...
                                        Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2011 13:52:15 -0700
                                        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Starting hand tools

                                         
                                        x2 - in fact I'd say this is the #1 tool to get, none of the other hand
                                        tools work without a bench. Holding the work is half the battle.

                                        Tim

                                        On 9/15/2011 9:39 AM, John LaTorre wrote:

                                        >
                                        > The other indispensable tool is a good workbench (if you don't have one
                                        > already). It can be a heavy solid table to start with, but it's not hard
                                        > to make one, and it will make all your subsequent projects easier.

                                      • Chuck Phillips
                                        I feel the need to chime in on this topic. Chatter marks tend to be caused by the blade flexing, generally due to insufficient support from the frog, taking
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Sep 19, 2011
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                                          I feel the need to chime in on this topic. Chatter marks tend to be caused by the blade flexing, generally due to insufficient support from the frog, taking too heavy a cut, or a dull blade. The lane marks are a sign of missing a step in sharpening. Plane blades should have the edge very slightly radiused, just a little off the corners. This is particularly so for a smoothing plane.

                                          Charles Joiner
                                          Laying low in Caid

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AlbionWood
                                          Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 1:51 PM
                                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools

                                          So did medieval planes. I have found such marks on almost every piece of medieval furniture I've had the opportunity to examine.

                                          Tim

                                          On 9/15/2011 8:53 AM, D. Young wrote:

                                          > A modern handplane with a metal base often leaves chatter marks and
                                          > fairly obvious long lane marks.


                                          ------------------------------------
                                        • Scot Eddy
                                          Found this link on Reddit.com and thought I would share it. The Moraccan artist makes a chess piece with a bow lathe and 1 tool.  Haven t checked out the
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 25, 2011
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                                            Found this link on Reddit.com and thought I would share it. The Moraccan artist makes a chess piece with a bow lathe and 1 tool. 

                                            Haven't checked out the other videos shown on the right but they look cool.

                                            Grace and Peace,

                                            Jovian
                                          • Dave Ordway
                                            I ve been thinking of building one recently. Can you provide the link please? Lagerstein ... From: Scot Eddy To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Oct 26, 2011
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                                              I've been thinking of building one recently.  Can you provide the link please?
                                               
                                              Lagerstein
                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: Scot Eddy
                                              Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:31 AM
                                              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Youtube video of a bow lathe

                                               

                                              Found this link on Reddit.com and thought I would share it. The Moraccan artist makes a chess piece with a bow lathe and 1 tool. 

                                              Haven't checked out the other videos shown on the right but they look cool.

                                              Grace and Peace,

                                              Jovian

                                            • Scot Eddy
                                              Here it is... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnv0DAR_gWA&t=1m10s Grace and Peace, Jovian ________________________________ From: Dave Ordway
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Oct 26, 2011
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                                                #-o d'oh!

                                                Here it is...


                                                Grace and Peace,

                                                Jovian


                                                From: Dave Ordway <dabugler@...>
                                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 10:24 PM
                                                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Youtube video of a bow lathe

                                                 
                                                I've been thinking of building one recently.  Can you provide the link please?
                                                 
                                                Lagerstein
                                                ----- Original Message -----
                                                From: Scot Eddy
                                                Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:31 AM
                                                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Youtube video of a bow lathe

                                                 
                                                Found this link on Reddit.com and thought I would share it. The Moraccan artist makes a chess piece with a bow lathe and 1 tool. 

                                                Haven't checked out the other videos shown on the right but they look cool.

                                                Grace and Peace,

                                                Jovian


                                              • Lynda Fjellman
                                                Wonderful!! I guess I need to polish up my toes.  I m still working on getting that nice finish.  Of course if I worked on my lathe everyday instead of maybe
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Oct 27, 2011
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                                                  Wonderful!!
                                                  I guess I need to polish up my toes.  I'm still working on getting that nice finish.  Of course if I worked on my lathe everyday instead of maybe once a month, I'd be better at it.
                                                  Ilaria

                                                  Here it is...

                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnv0DAR_gWA&t=1m10s

                                                  Grace and Peace,

                                                  Jovian

                                                • Chris Janoch
                                                  That is one *extremely* sharp skew chisel! - Rhydderch ____________________________________
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Oct 27, 2011
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                                                    That is one *extremely* sharp skew chisel!

                                                    - Rhydderch

                                                    ____________________________________


                                                    On Oct 27, 2011, at 9:01 PM, Lynda Fjellman <lyndafjellman@...> wrote:

                                                     

                                                    Wonderful!!
                                                    I guess I need to polish up my toes.  I'm still working on getting that nice finish.  Of course if I worked on my lathe everyday instead of maybe once a month, I'd be better at it.
                                                    Ilaria

                                                    Here it is...


                                                    Grace and Peace,

                                                    Jovian

                                                  • Ralph
                                                    And now for something, ah, completely different http://www.youtube.com/user/cindydrozda#p/a/u/0/guClqaO57yU Ralg (ducking and running, but he did spend 5 hours
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Oct 27, 2011
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                                                      And now for something, ah, completely different

                                                      http://www.youtube.com/user/cindydrozda#p/a/u/0/guClqaO57yU

                                                      Ralg (ducking and running, but he did spend 5 hours at his lathe today)
                                                      AnTir
                                                    • conradh@efn.org
                                                      ... Not really true at all. First of all, nails go way back in woodworking, and they ve generally been driven and drawn with hammers. The Romans made claw
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Oct 28, 2011
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                                                        > Didn't have a hammer as such back then. or at least not for woodworking
                                                        > purposes, Ironwork yes. The first hammer used in woodworking was actually
                                                        > the first screwdriver. 
                                                        >

                                                        Not really true at all. First of all, nails go way back in woodworking,
                                                        and they've generally been driven and drawn with hammers. The Romans made
                                                        claw hammers that looked just like the ones medieval smiths made for
                                                        medieval carpenters. The only real change in modern times was the
                                                        adze-type eye that replaced the earlier simple eye, and ISTR that's a
                                                        thing of the 19th century.

                                                        Secondly, we're taught today to only use a wooden mallet for driving
                                                        chisels, because when wood and iron are pounded together, the wood loses.
                                                        However, this also applies to all-metal chisels, which should be driven
                                                        with metal hammers. The Royal Ontario Museum has a metal hammer and an
                                                        all-metal gouge, frex, from a sixteenth-century London dig. You can see a
                                                        photo of them in _The Secular Spirit, Life and Art at the End of the
                                                        Middle Ages_, Metropolitan Museum of Art, Dutton, New York, 1975. p 109.

                                                        Ulfhedinn
                                                      • Lynda Fjellman
                                                        Nice, kinda puts a new spin on salad bowls, but she got some lovely coleslaw out of the deal. Perhaps you could make some for our next banquet? Ilaria
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Oct 28, 2011
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                                                          Nice, kinda puts a new spin on salad bowls, but she got some lovely coleslaw out of the deal.
                                                          Perhaps you could make some for our next banquet?
                                                          Ilaria




                                                           
                                                          And now for something, ah, completely different

                                                          http://www.youtube.com/user/cindydrozda#p/a/u/0/guClqaO57yU

                                                          Ralg (ducking and running, but he did spend 5 hours at his lathe today)
                                                          AnTir

                                                          __
                                                        • D. Young
                                                          I have several hammers dated to the 1600s and 1700s for woodworking. Iron hammers I mean. And yes iron hammers have been around for thousands of years....for
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Oct 29, 2011
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                                                            I have several hammers dated to the 1600s and 1700s for woodworking.   Iron hammers I mean.

                                                            And yes iron hammers have been around for thousands of years....for woodworking, as with nails.





                                                            Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                                                                 Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                                                            www.partsandtechnical.com
                                                            (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                                                             



                                                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                            From: conradh@...
                                                            Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 14:00:30 -0700
                                                            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools

                                                             
                                                            > Didn't have a hammer as such back then. or at least not for woodworking
                                                            > purposes, Ironwork yes. The first hammer used in woodworking was actually
                                                            > the first screwdriver. 
                                                            >

                                                            Not really true at all. First of all, nails go way back in woodworking,
                                                            and they've generally been driven and drawn with hammers. The Romans made
                                                            claw hammers that looked just like the ones medieval smiths made for
                                                            medieval carpenters. The only real change in modern times was the
                                                            adze-type eye that replaced the earlier simple eye, and ISTR that's a
                                                            thing of the 19th century.

                                                            Secondly, we're taught today to only use a wooden mallet for driving
                                                            chisels, because when wood and iron are pounded together, the wood loses.
                                                            However, this also applies to all-metal chisels, which should be driven
                                                            with metal hammers. The Royal Ontario Museum has a metal hammer and an
                                                            all-metal gouge, frex, from a sixteenth-century London dig. You can see a
                                                            photo of them in _The Secular Spirit, Life and Art at the End of the
                                                            Middle Ages_, Metropolitan Museum of Art, Dutton, New York, 1975. p 109.

                                                            Ulfhedinn


                                                          • D. Young
                                                            Also screws have been used in wood (mostly for hinges) since about 1500.....Ive found examples that far back. Rare to be sure, but increasingly more frequent
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Oct 29, 2011
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                                                              Also screws have been used in wood (mostly for hinges) since about 1500.....Ive found examples that far back.

                                                              Rare to be sure, but increasingly more frequent as we enter the 17th century. 



                                                              Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                                                                   Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                                                              www.partsandtechnical.com
                                                              (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                                                               



                                                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                              From: conradh@...
                                                              Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 14:00:30 -0700
                                                              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Starting hand tools

                                                               
                                                              > Didn't have a hammer as such back then. or at least not for woodworking
                                                              > purposes, Ironwork yes. The first hammer used in woodworking was actually
                                                              > the first screwdriver. 
                                                              >

                                                              Not really true at all. First of all, nails go way back in woodworking,
                                                              and they've generally been driven and drawn with hammers. The Romans made
                                                              claw hammers that looked just like the ones medieval smiths made for
                                                              medieval carpenters. The only real change in modern times was the
                                                              adze-type eye that replaced the earlier simple eye, and ISTR that's a
                                                              thing of the 19th century.

                                                              Secondly, we're taught today to only use a wooden mallet for driving
                                                              chisels, because when wood and iron are pounded together, the wood loses.
                                                              However, this also applies to all-metal chisels, which should be driven
                                                              with metal hammers. The Royal Ontario Museum has a metal hammer and an
                                                              all-metal gouge, frex, from a sixteenth-century London dig. You can see a
                                                              photo of them in _The Secular Spirit, Life and Art at the End of the
                                                              Middle Ages_, Metropolitan Museum of Art, Dutton, New York, 1975. p 109.

                                                              Ulfhedinn


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