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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Viking Chest(s)

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  • AlbionWood
    I think this is one of the best suggestions I ve read here in a long time.
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
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      I think this is one of the best suggestions I've read here in a long time.

      On 6/3/2011 11:08 AM, Eric wrote:

      > In my opinion, if you really want to emulate the Viking experience, I would suggest that you make your boxes and then let the decorations come naturally over the life of the item. If it's utilitarian, maybe just scratch a few patterns or maybe a game board on the lid. If you like carving, you can do something more impressive over time.
    • AqA WyrdWynd
      sorry half a sleep posting....wasnt thinking authentically or or clearly..heheh pete have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!! ... From: Jeffrey
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 4, 2011
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        sorry half a sleep posting....wasnt thinking authentically or or clearly..heheh
        pete

        have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!



        --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:

        From: Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...>
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 1:37 PM



        Don't recall any in museums with woodburning. Can you enlighten?
        On Jun 3, 2011 12:03 PM, "AqA WyrdWynd" <wyrdwynd@...> wrote:
        >
        >  
        >
        > they can be painted or woodburned or plain, im will to bet the farm that most were plain, and only households with craftsmens with decorative skills would have fancy chest
        >
        > have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!
        >
        >
        >
        > --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >> From: Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...>
        >> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
        >> To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        >> Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 11:37 AM
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Greetings
        >>
        >> I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering…
        >>
        >> Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not carving)…
        >>
        >>  
        >>
        >> Thanks
        >>
        >>  
        >>
        >> Bobby
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >



      • Sean Powell
        Hello, I m doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me. For medieval chairs I can say Glastonbury , Fauldstool , Crulle and a couple of
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
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          Hello,
          I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
          For medieval chairs I can say "Glastonbury", "Fauldstool", "Crulle" and
          a couple of other names and within certain parameters we all understand
          what shape, look and construction method is implied. When I look for
          beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the generic terms of "Rope"
          or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the 14th or
          15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
          names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
          one has named any since 900ad?
          Thanks,
          Sean
        • Graham Eyre
          Can t find any specific names for that era, but there is a lot of scope from slate type bed to a 4 poster   From: Sean Powell To:
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
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            Can't find any specific names for that era, but there is a lot of scope from slate type bed to a 4 poster
             

            From: Sean Powell <powell.sean@...>
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, 6 June 2011 11:05 AM
            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

            Hello,
                I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
            For medieval chairs I can say "Glastonbury", "Fauldstool", "Crulle" and
            a couple of other names and within certain parameters we all understand
            what shape, look and construction method is implied. When I look for
            beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the generic terms of "Rope"
            or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the 14th or
            15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
            names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
            one has named any since 900ad?
                Thanks,
                    Sean


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          • camdus17@juno.com
            You can add tester , half-tester , and canopy but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs. One issue that I
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
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              You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.

              One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).

              I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.

              I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.

              The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.

              --Dunstan M'Lolane

              ____________________________________________________________
              Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!

            • Gary Link
              On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle
              Message 6 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
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                On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make for a more comfortable sleep.

                In Service
                Hal 


                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                From: camdus17@...
                Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                 

                You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.
                One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).
                I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.
                I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.
                The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.
                --Dunstan M'Lolane
                ____________________________________________________________
                Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!

              • Graham Eyre
                In days of old the houses were not exactly draft proof so the Curtains etc around a bed was to keep out the cold and drafts.   From: Gary Link
                Message 7 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
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                  In days of old the houses were not exactly draft proof so the Curtains etc around a bed was to keep out the cold and drafts.
                   

                  From: Gary Link <halraeburn@...>
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, 6 June 2011 2:07 PM
                  Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture



                  On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make for a more comfortable sleep.

                  In Service
                  Hal 

                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  From: camdus17@...
                  Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000
                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                   

                  You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.
                  One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).
                  I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.
                  I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.
                  The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.
                  --Dunstan M'Lolane
                  ____________________________________________________________
                  Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!





                • Bobby Bourgoin
                  One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed. I don t
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
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                    One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…

                    I don’t know how fact or fiction this is but…  Like the people in the middle ages eat with there hands (for many this is fact, but we here all know this to be fiction), or that people in the middles ages didn’t wash (this is fiction and a mix up between medieval and renaissance, with the invention of perfumes, in the renaissance age people got lazy and stopped washing to cover-up with perfumes)

                     

                    Bobby

                     


                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Gary Link
                    Sent: 5 juin 2011 22:08
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                     

                     

                    On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make for a more comfortable sleep.

                     

                    In Service

                    Hal 

                     


                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    From: camdus17@...
                    Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000
                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                     


                    You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.
                    One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).
                    I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.
                    I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.
                    The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.
                    --Dunstan M'Lolane
                    ____________________________________________________________
                    Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!

                  • Julian Wilson
                    ... One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
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                      --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
                      One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…
                      SNIPPED FOR BREVITY
                      I don’t know how fact or fiction this is but…

                      COMMENT
                      Hmm - a bit too much generalisation there, Bobby.

                      Middle Ages housing came in many "grades", and was " internally-finished" according to household income.
                       And  - built according to what local materials were available.
                      So - in areas where timber and reed or straw  were scarce but stone, and slate or tiles were plentiful,- [e.g - Wales, Cornwall, the Midland's moorlands] instead of a fairly prosperous freeholder living in a timber-framed house with a thatched roof, and a puddled clay floor, - you would have found that freeholder living in a stone-built house, roofed with stone slabs, slates, or clay tiles, and with floors of encaustic tiles, or stone slabs. Simply because it was cheaper to use the local materials than to import them from miles away.
                      With no Thatch to hide and nest in, there were far-fewer  vermin living in the roofs.

                      One is on much-safer ground going with the "enclosed bed-space" warmed by body heat and protected against draughts.
                      What you call "four-poster beds with curtains and testers" were expensive items - so expensive that they were bequeathed to relatives in Wills.the lower Classes could not afford curtained 4-poster beds.
                       The next social.income- level downwards were the "beds in cupboards or Wall recesses" - again, to keep the sleepers warm  from body heat and draught-exclusion.
                      Even fisherfolk in Brittany [historically a very poor section of the working population who couldn't even afford straw or reeds for roofing, and used dried seaweed instead, ] - had such recessed or cupboard-enclosed beds. Surviving "cupboard beds" of whatever age, are now much-sought-after antiques in today's France.
                      And at the other upper end of the social scale, nobles generally lived in many-storied residences built of masonry, and their personal  Chambers were mostly at least one level below the garrets. And the roofs of castles and fortified manor houses had non-flammable, impermeable coverings, -stone slabs, slates, sheets leading, or baked-clay roof-tiles such as the Romans had used; - with fewer places to harbour vermin such as rats and mice.

                      The Weald & Downland Museum (Singleton, Sussex), Barley Hall (York); the Merchants House  (Southampton, Hampshie); and the 14th C. Tretower Court ( nr. Abergavenny, S. Wales) - are all good examples of the housing to which I refer.

                      regards,
                       Matthewe Baker

                       


                       

                       









                      On
                      the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies
                      and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the
                      same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make
                      for a more comfortable sleep.



                       





                      In Service





                      Hal 



                       











                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com

                      From:
                      camdus17@...

                      Date:
                      Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000

                      Subject:
                      Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture



                       









                      You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy"
                      but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for
                      ancient designs.

                      One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall
                      into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress
                      and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of
                      the mattress).

                      I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and
                      "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground. 
                      And the only difference between the two is the material used within the
                      framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame
                      consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts
                      at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the
                      runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and
                      head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.

                      I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at
                      all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here)
                      may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when
                      hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with
                      mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I
                      understand.

                      The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of
                      the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they
                      are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy
                      beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four
                      light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is
                      also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the
                      two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples
                      there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A
                      half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half
                      of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy
                      drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce
                      drafts.

                      --Dunstan M'Lolane

                      ____________________________________________________________

                      Get
                      Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!








































                    • maf@gleichen.ca
                      ... I read that the first hammocks where brought to Europe from Barbados by Christopher Columbas and where not addopted by the British Navy until 1590 (the
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
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                        >
                        > I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the
                        > ground at all. Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and
                        > hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves. I'm
                        > not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the
                        > framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels
                        > were quite comfortable, I understand.
                        >
                        > --Dunstan M'Lolane





                        I read that the first hammocks where brought to Europe from Barbados by
                        Christopher Columbas and where not addopted by the British Navy until
                        1590 (the canvas sling type became standad in 1597), prior to that they
                        used wooden bunks and injuries and fatalities from rolling out of your
                        bunk where common in the British Navy.

                        Mark
                      • Broom
                        ... Rising damp would quickly mildew these mattresses, which were probably straw ticks (or the equivalent using other plant fibers), usually contained in cloth
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
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                          Dunstan M'Lolane wrote:
                          > I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.

                          Rising damp would quickly mildew these mattresses, which were probably
                          straw ticks (or the equivalent using other plant fibers), usually
                          contained in cloth bags, so I suspect even the poorest tried to raise
                          their mattresses off the ground.

                          ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
                          ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
                          ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
                          '\|/ "Discere et docere", which means:
                          '/|\ "The world is like a mirror, you see? Smile, and your friends
                          //|\\ smile back." - Japanese Zen saying
                        • Julian Wilson
                          Correct - that s where the truckle bed came from. These are simple bed-frames with rope suspensions and short legs, which raised the palliasse 4 to 6 inches
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
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                            Correct - that's where the "truckle bed" came from. These are simple bed-frames with rope suspensions and short legs, which raised the palliasse 4 to 6 inches off the ground,  usually designed to roll in under a "great bed".  The Weald & Downland Museum, Singleton, West Sussex, has several excellent replicas, drawn from extant examples in various Museum Collactions.
                            The poorest folk would likely make a kind of under-couch from bundles of dried ferns or long straw - or of something similar - which would provide a layer of insulation. The palliasses of the poor would likely be picked-up each morning and either put to "air" - or be rolled-up out of the way of the day's activities - especially in "one room" dwellings. And when the under-couch needed changing - it would go into the beasts' byres or the stable, as bedding/food.

                            In service,
                             Matthewe Baker

                            --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Broom <IAmBroom@...> wrote:

                            From: Broom <IAmBroom@...>
                            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Named medieval furniture
                            To:
                            Cc: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Monday, 6 June, 2011, 15:39

                             

                            Dunstan M'Lolane wrote:
                            > I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.

                            Rising damp would quickly mildew these mattresses, which were probably
                            straw ticks (or the equivalent using other plant fibers), usually
                            contained in cloth bags, so I suspect even the poorest tried to raise
                            their mattresses off the ground.

                            ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
                            ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
                            ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
                            '\|/ "Discere et docere", which means:
                            '/|\ "The world is like a mirror, you see? Smile, and your friends
                            //|\\ smile back." - Japanese Zen saying

                          • tessa_rat
                            According to Victor Chinnery there are a number of references, in inventories and such, to folding or traveling beds. Unfortunately, due to hard use and
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
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                              According to Victor Chinnery there are a number of references, in inventories and such, to folding or traveling beds. Unfortunately, due to hard use and relatively light construction, none appear to have survived. What we are left with is household beds and viking burials.

                              One could interpret a traveling bed as simply a more lightly built version of a household bed (I've done several of these, or, and I personally think this is quite likely, a scissor folding "army" cot with a mechanism similar to a "Savanarola" or "Glastonbury" chair.

                              It's an area that I think deserves a bit of exploration and experimentation... Right... off to the shop with me. :~)

                              Fritz Wilhelm
                              welldressedtent.com

                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Sean Powell <powell.sean@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello,
                              > I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
                              > <<<snip>>>
                              > When I look for
                              > beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the generic terms of "Rope"
                              > or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the 14th or
                              > 15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
                              > names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
                              > one has named any since 900ad?
                              > Thanks,
                              > Sean
                              >
                            • Bobby Bourgoin
                              Of course. that is what I meant with the rest of the mail. fact or fiction (my thoughts, mostly fiction) Bobby _____ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
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                                Of course… that is what I meant with the rest of the mail…  fact or fiction (my thoughts, mostly fiction)

                                 

                                Bobby

                                 


                                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Julian Wilson
                                Sent: 6 juin 2011 09:16
                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                                 

                                 

                                --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
                                One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…
                                SNIPPED FOR BREVITY
                                I don’t know how fact or fiction this is but…

                                COMMENT
                                Hmm - a bit too much generalisation there, Bobby.

                                Middle Ages housing came in many "grades", and was " internally-finished" according to household income.
                                 And  - built according to what local materials were available.
                                So - in areas where timber and reed or straw  were scarce but stone, and slate or tiles were plentiful,- [e.g - Wales, Cornwall, the Midland's moorlands] instead of a fairly prosperous freeholder living in a timber-framed house with a thatched roof, and a puddled clay floor, - you would have found that freeholder living in a stone-built house, roofed with stone slabs, slates, or clay tiles, and with floors of encaustic tiles, or stone slabs. Simply because it was cheaper to use the local materials than to import them from miles away.
                                With no Thatch to hide and nest in, there were far-fewer  vermin living in the roofs.

                                One is on much-safer ground going with the "enclosed bed-space" warmed by body heat and protected against draughts.
                                What you call "four-poster beds with curtains and testers" were expensive items - so expensive that they were bequeathed to relatives in Wills.the lower Classes could not afford curtained 4-poster beds.
                                 The next social.income- level downwards were the "beds in cupboards or Wall recesses" - again, to keep the sleepers warm  from body heat and draught-exclusion.
                                Even fisherfolk in Brittany [historically a very poor section of the working population who couldn't even afford straw or reeds for roofing, and used dried seaweed instead, ] - had such recessed or cupboard-enclosed beds. Surviving "cupboard beds" of whatever age, are now much-sought-after antiques in today's France .
                                And at the other upper end of the social scale, nobles generally lived in many-storied residences built of masonry, and their personal  Chambers were mostly at least one level below the garrets. And the roofs of castles and fortified manor houses had non-flammable, impermeable coverings, -stone slabs, slates, sheets leading, or baked-clay roof-tiles such as the Romans had used; - with fewer places to harbour vermin such as rats and mice.

                                The Weald & Downland Museum ( Singleton , Sussex ), Barley Hall ( York ); the Merchants House  (Southampton, Hampshie); and the 14th C. Tretower Court ( nr. Abergavenny, S. Wales ) - are all good examples of the housing to which I refer.

                                regards,
                                 Matthewe Baker

                                 


                                 

                                 









                                On
                                the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies
                                and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the
                                same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make
                                for a more comfortable sleep.



                                 





                                In Service





                                Hal 



                                 











                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com

                                From:
                                camdus17@...

                                Date:
                                Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000

                                Subject:
                                Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture



                                 









                                You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy"
                                but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for
                                ancient designs.

                                One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall
                                into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress
                                and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of
                                the mattress).

                                I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and
                                "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground. 
                                And the only difference between the two is the material used within the
                                framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame
                                consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts
                                at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the
                                runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and
                                head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.

                                I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at
                                all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here)
                                may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when
                                hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with
                                mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I
                                understand.

                                The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of
                                the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they
                                are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy
                                beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four
                                light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is
                                also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the
                                two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples
                                there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A
                                half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half
                                of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy
                                drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce
                                drafts.

                                --Dunstan M'Lolane

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                              • Bobby Bourgoin
                                There is also the neat bed in a box, somewhere on the site for this group. Bobby _____ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
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                                  There is also the neat bed in a box, somewhere on the site for this group…

                                   

                                  Bobby

                                   


                                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of tessa_rat
                                  Sent: 6 juin 2011 12:13
                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Named medieval furniture

                                   

                                   

                                  According to Victor Chinnery there are a number of references, in inventories and such, to folding or traveling beds. Unfortunately, due to hard use and relatively light construction, none appear to have survived. What we are left with is household beds and viking burials.

                                  One could interpret a traveling bed as simply a more lightly built version of a household bed (I've done several of these, or, and I personally think this is quite likely, a scissor folding "army" cot with a mechanism similar to a "Savanarola" or "Glastonbury" chair.

                                  It's an area that I think deserves a bit of exploration and experimentation... Right... off to the shop with me. :~)

                                  Fritz Wilhelm
                                  welldressedtent.com

                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Sean Powell <powell.sean@...> wrote:

                                  >
                                  > Hello,
                                  > I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
                                  > <<<snip>>>
                                  > When I look for
                                  > beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the
                                  generic terms of "Rope"
                                  > or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the
                                  14th or
                                  > 15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
                                  > names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
                                  > one has named any since 900ad?
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > Sean
                                  >

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