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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)

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  • Jeffrey Johnson
    Don t recall any in museums with woodburning. Can you enlighten? ... most were plain, and only households with craftsmens with decorative skills would have
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
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      Don't recall any in museums with woodburning. Can you enlighten?

      On Jun 3, 2011 12:03 PM, "AqA WyrdWynd" <wyrdwynd@...> wrote:
      >
      >  
      >
      > they can be painted or woodburned or plain, im will to bet the farm that most were plain, and only households with craftsmens with decorative skills would have fancy chest
      >
      > have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!
      >
      >
      >
      > --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
      >>
      >>
      >> From: Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...>
      >> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
      >> To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      >> Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 11:37 AM
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Greetings
      >>
      >> I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering…
      >>
      >> Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not carving)…
      >>
      >>  
      >>
      >> Thanks
      >>
      >>  
      >>
      >> Bobby
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >

    • Eric
      Almost all extant examples of wooden Viking goods (chests, boxes, utensils, cups, etc.) that I have seen are decorated in some fashion. Whether it s formal
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
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        Almost all extant examples of wooden Viking goods (chests, boxes, utensils, cups, etc.) that I have seen are decorated in some fashion. Whether it's formal carving or just pictures or patterns scratched into the surface, somebody left their mark on their stuff. I believe that this came from "long winter nights", where one didn't have much else to do.

        In my opinion, if you really want to emulate the Viking experience, I would suggest that you make your boxes and then let the decorations come naturally over the life of the item. If it's utilitarian, maybe just scratch a few patterns or maybe a game board on the lid. If you like carving, you can do something more impressive over time.

        What I've noticed is that most of my Viking stuff isn't decorated, probably because when I'm not participating at SCA events, the stuff is packed away. Most of my idle time is filled with regular life projects.

        In Service to the Dream,
        Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
        Ashgrove, Barony of Altavia, Caid

        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
        >
        > Greetings
        >
        > I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering.
        >
        > Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source
        > for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not
        > carving).
        >
        >
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        >
        >
        > Bobby
        >
      • Dan Baker
        Sometimes I think it depends on usage, something utilitarian had much less decoration. For example, The Mastermyr chest was undecorated, but really well
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
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          Sometimes I think it depends on usage, something utilitarian had much less decoration.  For example, The Mastermyr chest was undecorated, but really well built..  It ended up in a bog full of blacksmith and carpenter tools.  it probably bounced off the back of someones wagon and was gone..  Now It was obviously not built for the specific job it was being used for.  Based on the size and shape, there is an excellent chance it started out as a rowing chest.  you store your belongings in it and sit on it while you row the galley.  the lock was busted well before it was losts and it was wrapped in a chain, probably to replace the lock.  How we treat the stuff that we have the most work into is different from how we treat everyday items.  So the stuff that has survived is the high end, not the daily use stuff.  that is also why we have so much church furniture and almost no peasant stuff.  Quality doesn't just last, it's better taken care of.

          IN MY OPINION, the single best way to carve a chest is make two, give one to a carver.  Works with blacksmiths for hinges and locks too.

          -Capten Rhys

          On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Eric <ewdysar@...> wrote:
           

          Almost all extant examples of wooden Viking goods (chests, boxes, utensils, cups, etc.) that I have seen are decorated in some fashion. Whether it's formal carving or just pictures or patterns scratched into the surface, somebody left their mark on their stuff. I believe that this came from "long winter nights", where one didn't have much else to do.

          In my opinion, if you really want to emulate the Viking experience, I would suggest that you make your boxes and then let the decorations come naturally over the life of the item. If it's utilitarian, maybe just scratch a few patterns or maybe a game board on the lid. If you like carving, you can do something more impressive over time.

          What I've noticed is that most of my Viking stuff isn't decorated, probably because when I'm not participating at SCA events, the stuff is packed away. Most of my idle time is filled with regular life projects.

          In Service to the Dream,
          Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
          Ashgrove, Barony of Altavia, Caid


          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
          >
          > Greetings
          >
          > I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering.
          >
          > Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source
          > for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not
          > carving).
          >
          >
          >
          > Thanks
          >
          >
          >
          > Bobby
          >


        • Graham Eyre
          For the main part Viking Furniture [including chests] was plain. here is a link that may interest as it covers quite a lot of eras.
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
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            For the main part Viking Furniture [including chests] was plain. here is a link that may interest as it covers quite a lot of eras.
             
            Cheers
             
            Graham

            From: Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...>
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, 4 June 2011 3:37 AM
            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)



            Greetings
            I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering…
            Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not carving)…
             
            Thanks
             
            Bobby




          • Graham Eyre
            Here is another link that may be of interest, this guy seems to have done quite a lot of reserch also.  
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
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              Here is another link that may be of interest, this guy seems to have done quite a lot of reserch also.
               
               
              Cheers
               
              Graham 

              From: Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...>
              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, 4 June 2011 5:37 AM
              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)



              Don't recall any in museums with woodburning. Can you enlighten?
              On Jun 3, 2011 12:03 PM, "AqA WyrdWynd" <wyrdwynd@...> wrote:
              >
              >  
              >
              > they can be painted or woodburned or plain, im will to bet the farm that most were plain, and only households with craftsmens with decorative skills would have fancy chest
              >
              > have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!
              >
              >
              >
              > --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >> From: Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...>
              >> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
              >> To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              >> Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 11:37 AM
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Greetings
              >>
              >> I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering…
              >>
              >> Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not carving)…
              >>
              >>  
              >>
              >> Thanks
              >>
              >>  
              >>
              >> Bobby
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >




            • AlbionWood
              I think this is one of the best suggestions I ve read here in a long time.
              Message 6 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
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                I think this is one of the best suggestions I've read here in a long time.

                On 6/3/2011 11:08 AM, Eric wrote:

                > In my opinion, if you really want to emulate the Viking experience, I would suggest that you make your boxes and then let the decorations come naturally over the life of the item. If it's utilitarian, maybe just scratch a few patterns or maybe a game board on the lid. If you like carving, you can do something more impressive over time.
              • AqA WyrdWynd
                sorry half a sleep posting....wasnt thinking authentically or or clearly..heheh pete have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!! ... From: Jeffrey
                Message 7 of 24 , Jun 4, 2011
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                  sorry half a sleep posting....wasnt thinking authentically or or clearly..heheh
                  pete

                  have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!



                  --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:

                  From: Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...>
                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 1:37 PM



                  Don't recall any in museums with woodburning. Can you enlighten?
                  On Jun 3, 2011 12:03 PM, "AqA WyrdWynd" <wyrdwynd@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > they can be painted or woodburned or plain, im will to bet the farm that most were plain, and only households with craftsmens with decorative skills would have fancy chest
                  >
                  > have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> From: Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...>
                  >> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
                  >> To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 11:37 AM
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Greetings
                  >>
                  >> I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering…
                  >>
                  >> Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not carving)…
                  >>
                  >>  
                  >>
                  >> Thanks
                  >>
                  >>  
                  >>
                  >> Bobby
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >



                • Sean Powell
                  Hello, I m doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me. For medieval chairs I can say Glastonbury , Fauldstool , Crulle and a couple of
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
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                    Hello,
                    I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
                    For medieval chairs I can say "Glastonbury", "Fauldstool", "Crulle" and
                    a couple of other names and within certain parameters we all understand
                    what shape, look and construction method is implied. When I look for
                    beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the generic terms of "Rope"
                    or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the 14th or
                    15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
                    names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
                    one has named any since 900ad?
                    Thanks,
                    Sean
                  • Graham Eyre
                    Can t find any specific names for that era, but there is a lot of scope from slate type bed to a 4 poster   From: Sean Powell To:
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
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                      Can't find any specific names for that era, but there is a lot of scope from slate type bed to a 4 poster
                       

                      From: Sean Powell <powell.sean@...>
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, 6 June 2011 11:05 AM
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                      Hello,
                          I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
                      For medieval chairs I can say "Glastonbury", "Fauldstool", "Crulle" and
                      a couple of other names and within certain parameters we all understand
                      what shape, look and construction method is implied. When I look for
                      beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the generic terms of "Rope"
                      or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the 14th or
                      15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
                      names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
                      one has named any since 900ad?
                          Thanks,
                              Sean


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                    • camdus17@juno.com
                      You can add tester , half-tester , and canopy but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs. One issue that I
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
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                        You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.

                        One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).

                        I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.

                        I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.

                        The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.

                        --Dunstan M'Lolane

                        ____________________________________________________________
                        Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!

                      • Gary Link
                        On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
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                          On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make for a more comfortable sleep.

                          In Service
                          Hal 


                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          From: camdus17@...
                          Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000
                          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                           

                          You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.
                          One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).
                          I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.
                          I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.
                          The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.
                          --Dunstan M'Lolane
                          ____________________________________________________________
                          Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!

                        • Graham Eyre
                          In days of old the houses were not exactly draft proof so the Curtains etc around a bed was to keep out the cold and drafts.   From: Gary Link
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
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                            In days of old the houses were not exactly draft proof so the Curtains etc around a bed was to keep out the cold and drafts.
                             

                            From: Gary Link <halraeburn@...>
                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Monday, 6 June 2011 2:07 PM
                            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture



                            On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make for a more comfortable sleep.

                            In Service
                            Hal 

                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            From: camdus17@...
                            Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000
                            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                             

                            You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.
                            One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).
                            I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.
                            I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.
                            The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.
                            --Dunstan M'Lolane
                            ____________________________________________________________
                            Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!





                          • Bobby Bourgoin
                            One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed. I don t
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
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                              One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…

                              I don’t know how fact or fiction this is but…  Like the people in the middle ages eat with there hands (for many this is fact, but we here all know this to be fiction), or that people in the middles ages didn’t wash (this is fiction and a mix up between medieval and renaissance, with the invention of perfumes, in the renaissance age people got lazy and stopped washing to cover-up with perfumes)

                               

                              Bobby

                               


                              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Gary Link
                              Sent: 5 juin 2011 22:08
                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                               

                               

                              On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make for a more comfortable sleep.

                               

                              In Service

                              Hal 

                               


                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              From: camdus17@...
                              Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000
                              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                               


                              You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.
                              One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).
                              I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.
                              I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.
                              The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.
                              --Dunstan M'Lolane
                              ____________________________________________________________
                              Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!

                            • Julian Wilson
                              ... One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
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                                --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
                                One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…
                                SNIPPED FOR BREVITY
                                I don’t know how fact or fiction this is but…

                                COMMENT
                                Hmm - a bit too much generalisation there, Bobby.

                                Middle Ages housing came in many "grades", and was " internally-finished" according to household income.
                                 And  - built according to what local materials were available.
                                So - in areas where timber and reed or straw  were scarce but stone, and slate or tiles were plentiful,- [e.g - Wales, Cornwall, the Midland's moorlands] instead of a fairly prosperous freeholder living in a timber-framed house with a thatched roof, and a puddled clay floor, - you would have found that freeholder living in a stone-built house, roofed with stone slabs, slates, or clay tiles, and with floors of encaustic tiles, or stone slabs. Simply because it was cheaper to use the local materials than to import them from miles away.
                                With no Thatch to hide and nest in, there were far-fewer  vermin living in the roofs.

                                One is on much-safer ground going with the "enclosed bed-space" warmed by body heat and protected against draughts.
                                What you call "four-poster beds with curtains and testers" were expensive items - so expensive that they were bequeathed to relatives in Wills.the lower Classes could not afford curtained 4-poster beds.
                                 The next social.income- level downwards were the "beds in cupboards or Wall recesses" - again, to keep the sleepers warm  from body heat and draught-exclusion.
                                Even fisherfolk in Brittany [historically a very poor section of the working population who couldn't even afford straw or reeds for roofing, and used dried seaweed instead, ] - had such recessed or cupboard-enclosed beds. Surviving "cupboard beds" of whatever age, are now much-sought-after antiques in today's France.
                                And at the other upper end of the social scale, nobles generally lived in many-storied residences built of masonry, and their personal  Chambers were mostly at least one level below the garrets. And the roofs of castles and fortified manor houses had non-flammable, impermeable coverings, -stone slabs, slates, sheets leading, or baked-clay roof-tiles such as the Romans had used; - with fewer places to harbour vermin such as rats and mice.

                                The Weald & Downland Museum (Singleton, Sussex), Barley Hall (York); the Merchants House  (Southampton, Hampshie); and the 14th C. Tretower Court ( nr. Abergavenny, S. Wales) - are all good examples of the housing to which I refer.

                                regards,
                                 Matthewe Baker

                                 


                                 

                                 









                                On
                                the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies
                                and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the
                                same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make
                                for a more comfortable sleep.



                                 





                                In Service





                                Hal 



                                 











                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com

                                From:
                                camdus17@...

                                Date:
                                Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000

                                Subject:
                                Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture



                                 









                                You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy"
                                but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for
                                ancient designs.

                                One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall
                                into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress
                                and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of
                                the mattress).

                                I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and
                                "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground. 
                                And the only difference between the two is the material used within the
                                framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame
                                consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts
                                at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the
                                runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and
                                head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.

                                I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at
                                all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here)
                                may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when
                                hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with
                                mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I
                                understand.

                                The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of
                                the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they
                                are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy
                                beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four
                                light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is
                                also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the
                                two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples
                                there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A
                                half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half
                                of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy
                                drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce
                                drafts.

                                --Dunstan M'Lolane

                                ____________________________________________________________

                                Get
                                Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!








































                              • maf@gleichen.ca
                                ... I read that the first hammocks where brought to Europe from Barbados by Christopher Columbas and where not addopted by the British Navy until 1590 (the
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  >
                                  > I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the
                                  > ground at all. Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and
                                  > hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves. I'm
                                  > not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the
                                  > framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels
                                  > were quite comfortable, I understand.
                                  >
                                  > --Dunstan M'Lolane





                                  I read that the first hammocks where brought to Europe from Barbados by
                                  Christopher Columbas and where not addopted by the British Navy until
                                  1590 (the canvas sling type became standad in 1597), prior to that they
                                  used wooden bunks and injuries and fatalities from rolling out of your
                                  bunk where common in the British Navy.

                                  Mark
                                • Broom
                                  ... Rising damp would quickly mildew these mattresses, which were probably straw ticks (or the equivalent using other plant fibers), usually contained in cloth
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Dunstan M'Lolane wrote:
                                    > I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.

                                    Rising damp would quickly mildew these mattresses, which were probably
                                    straw ticks (or the equivalent using other plant fibers), usually
                                    contained in cloth bags, so I suspect even the poorest tried to raise
                                    their mattresses off the ground.

                                    ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
                                    ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
                                    ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
                                    '\|/ "Discere et docere", which means:
                                    '/|\ "The world is like a mirror, you see? Smile, and your friends
                                    //|\\ smile back." - Japanese Zen saying
                                  • Julian Wilson
                                    Correct - that s where the truckle bed came from. These are simple bed-frames with rope suspensions and short legs, which raised the palliasse 4 to 6 inches
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Correct - that's where the "truckle bed" came from. These are simple bed-frames with rope suspensions and short legs, which raised the palliasse 4 to 6 inches off the ground,  usually designed to roll in under a "great bed".  The Weald & Downland Museum, Singleton, West Sussex, has several excellent replicas, drawn from extant examples in various Museum Collactions.
                                      The poorest folk would likely make a kind of under-couch from bundles of dried ferns or long straw - or of something similar - which would provide a layer of insulation. The palliasses of the poor would likely be picked-up each morning and either put to "air" - or be rolled-up out of the way of the day's activities - especially in "one room" dwellings. And when the under-couch needed changing - it would go into the beasts' byres or the stable, as bedding/food.

                                      In service,
                                       Matthewe Baker

                                      --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Broom <IAmBroom@...> wrote:

                                      From: Broom <IAmBroom@...>
                                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Named medieval furniture
                                      To:
                                      Cc: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Monday, 6 June, 2011, 15:39

                                       

                                      Dunstan M'Lolane wrote:
                                      > I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.

                                      Rising damp would quickly mildew these mattresses, which were probably
                                      straw ticks (or the equivalent using other plant fibers), usually
                                      contained in cloth bags, so I suspect even the poorest tried to raise
                                      their mattresses off the ground.

                                      ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
                                      ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
                                      ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
                                      '\|/ "Discere et docere", which means:
                                      '/|\ "The world is like a mirror, you see? Smile, and your friends
                                      //|\\ smile back." - Japanese Zen saying

                                    • tessa_rat
                                      According to Victor Chinnery there are a number of references, in inventories and such, to folding or traveling beds. Unfortunately, due to hard use and
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        According to Victor Chinnery there are a number of references, in inventories and such, to folding or traveling beds. Unfortunately, due to hard use and relatively light construction, none appear to have survived. What we are left with is household beds and viking burials.

                                        One could interpret a traveling bed as simply a more lightly built version of a household bed (I've done several of these, or, and I personally think this is quite likely, a scissor folding "army" cot with a mechanism similar to a "Savanarola" or "Glastonbury" chair.

                                        It's an area that I think deserves a bit of exploration and experimentation... Right... off to the shop with me. :~)

                                        Fritz Wilhelm
                                        welldressedtent.com

                                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Sean Powell <powell.sean@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hello,
                                        > I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
                                        > <<<snip>>>
                                        > When I look for
                                        > beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the generic terms of "Rope"
                                        > or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the 14th or
                                        > 15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
                                        > names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
                                        > one has named any since 900ad?
                                        > Thanks,
                                        > Sean
                                        >
                                      • Bobby Bourgoin
                                        Of course. that is what I meant with the rest of the mail. fact or fiction (my thoughts, mostly fiction) Bobby _____ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment

                                          Of course… that is what I meant with the rest of the mail…  fact or fiction (my thoughts, mostly fiction)

                                           

                                          Bobby

                                           


                                          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Julian Wilson
                                          Sent: 6 juin 2011 09:16
                                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                                           

                                           

                                          --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
                                          One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…
                                          SNIPPED FOR BREVITY
                                          I don’t know how fact or fiction this is but…

                                          COMMENT
                                          Hmm - a bit too much generalisation there, Bobby.

                                          Middle Ages housing came in many "grades", and was " internally-finished" according to household income.
                                           And  - built according to what local materials were available.
                                          So - in areas where timber and reed or straw  were scarce but stone, and slate or tiles were plentiful,- [e.g - Wales, Cornwall, the Midland's moorlands] instead of a fairly prosperous freeholder living in a timber-framed house with a thatched roof, and a puddled clay floor, - you would have found that freeholder living in a stone-built house, roofed with stone slabs, slates, or clay tiles, and with floors of encaustic tiles, or stone slabs. Simply because it was cheaper to use the local materials than to import them from miles away.
                                          With no Thatch to hide and nest in, there were far-fewer  vermin living in the roofs.

                                          One is on much-safer ground going with the "enclosed bed-space" warmed by body heat and protected against draughts.
                                          What you call "four-poster beds with curtains and testers" were expensive items - so expensive that they were bequeathed to relatives in Wills.the lower Classes could not afford curtained 4-poster beds.
                                           The next social.income- level downwards were the "beds in cupboards or Wall recesses" - again, to keep the sleepers warm  from body heat and draught-exclusion.
                                          Even fisherfolk in Brittany [historically a very poor section of the working population who couldn't even afford straw or reeds for roofing, and used dried seaweed instead, ] - had such recessed or cupboard-enclosed beds. Surviving "cupboard beds" of whatever age, are now much-sought-after antiques in today's France .
                                          And at the other upper end of the social scale, nobles generally lived in many-storied residences built of masonry, and their personal  Chambers were mostly at least one level below the garrets. And the roofs of castles and fortified manor houses had non-flammable, impermeable coverings, -stone slabs, slates, sheets leading, or baked-clay roof-tiles such as the Romans had used; - with fewer places to harbour vermin such as rats and mice.

                                          The Weald & Downland Museum ( Singleton , Sussex ), Barley Hall ( York ); the Merchants House  (Southampton, Hampshie); and the 14th C. Tretower Court ( nr. Abergavenny, S. Wales ) - are all good examples of the housing to which I refer.

                                          regards,
                                           Matthewe Baker

                                           


                                           

                                           









                                          On
                                          the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies
                                          and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the
                                          same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make
                                          for a more comfortable sleep.



                                           





                                          In Service





                                          Hal 



                                           











                                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com

                                          From:
                                          camdus17@...

                                          Date:
                                          Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000

                                          Subject:
                                          Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture



                                           









                                          You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy"
                                          but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for
                                          ancient designs.

                                          One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall
                                          into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress
                                          and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of
                                          the mattress).

                                          I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and
                                          "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground. 
                                          And the only difference between the two is the material used within the
                                          framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame
                                          consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts
                                          at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the
                                          runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and
                                          head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.

                                          I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at
                                          all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here)
                                          may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when
                                          hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with
                                          mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I
                                          understand.

                                          The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of
                                          the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they
                                          are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy
                                          beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four
                                          light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is
                                          also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the
                                          two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples
                                          there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A
                                          half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half
                                          of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy
                                          drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce
                                          drafts.

                                          --Dunstan M'Lolane

                                          ____________________________________________________________

                                          Get
                                          Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!







































                                        • Bobby Bourgoin
                                          There is also the neat bed in a box, somewhere on the site for this group. Bobby _____ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment

                                            There is also the neat bed in a box, somewhere on the site for this group…

                                             

                                            Bobby

                                             


                                            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of tessa_rat
                                            Sent: 6 juin 2011 12:13
                                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Named medieval furniture

                                             

                                             

                                            According to Victor Chinnery there are a number of references, in inventories and such, to folding or traveling beds. Unfortunately, due to hard use and relatively light construction, none appear to have survived. What we are left with is household beds and viking burials.

                                            One could interpret a traveling bed as simply a more lightly built version of a household bed (I've done several of these, or, and I personally think this is quite likely, a scissor folding "army" cot with a mechanism similar to a "Savanarola" or "Glastonbury" chair.

                                            It's an area that I think deserves a bit of exploration and experimentation... Right... off to the shop with me. :~)

                                            Fritz Wilhelm
                                            welldressedtent.com

                                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Sean Powell <powell.sean@...> wrote:

                                            >
                                            > Hello,
                                            > I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
                                            > <<<snip>>>
                                            > When I look for
                                            > beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the
                                            generic terms of "Rope"
                                            > or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the
                                            14th or
                                            > 15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
                                            > names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
                                            > one has named any since 900ad?
                                            > Thanks,
                                            > Sean
                                            >

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