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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)

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  • AqA WyrdWynd
    they can be painted or woodburned or plain, im will to bet the farm that most were plain, and only households with craftsmens with decorative skills would have
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
      they can be painted or woodburned or plain, im will to bet the farm that most were plain, and only households with craftsmens with decorative skills would have fancy chest

      have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!



      --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:

      From: Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...>
      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 11:37 AM



      Greetings

      I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering…

      Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not carving)…

       

      Thanks

       

      Bobby



    • Julian Wilson
      Bobby, plain or carved would have depended on several considerations  in-period -  - Whether there was peace in his Land, - such skills need a time
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
        Bobby,
        "plain" or "carved" would have depended on several considerations  "in-period" -  -
        Whether there was "peace" in his Land, - such skills need a time of peace in which to "flower", - .
        How skilled the maker was with woodworking tools if it was for his own use, or as a "display piece" for his skills, -
        How much time he had at his disposal, -
        And, if ordered from a specialist Crafter - how much the end-user was prepared to pay or barter-in-trade for the  product.
        Matthewe

        --- On Fri, 3/6/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:

        From: Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...>
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, 3 June, 2011, 15:37

         

        Greetings

        I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering…

        Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not carving)…

         

        Thanks

         

        Bobby

      • Jeffrey Johnson
        Don t recall any in museums with woodburning. Can you enlighten? ... most were plain, and only households with craftsmens with decorative skills would have
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011

          Don't recall any in museums with woodburning. Can you enlighten?

          On Jun 3, 2011 12:03 PM, "AqA WyrdWynd" <wyrdwynd@...> wrote:
          >
          >  
          >
          > they can be painted or woodburned or plain, im will to bet the farm that most were plain, and only households with craftsmens with decorative skills would have fancy chest
          >
          > have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!
          >
          >
          >
          > --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
          >>
          >>
          >> From: Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...>
          >> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
          >> To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          >> Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 11:37 AM
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> Greetings
          >>
          >> I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering…
          >>
          >> Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not carving)…
          >>
          >>  
          >>
          >> Thanks
          >>
          >>  
          >>
          >> Bobby
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >

        • Eric
          Almost all extant examples of wooden Viking goods (chests, boxes, utensils, cups, etc.) that I have seen are decorated in some fashion. Whether it s formal
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
            Almost all extant examples of wooden Viking goods (chests, boxes, utensils, cups, etc.) that I have seen are decorated in some fashion. Whether it's formal carving or just pictures or patterns scratched into the surface, somebody left their mark on their stuff. I believe that this came from "long winter nights", where one didn't have much else to do.

            In my opinion, if you really want to emulate the Viking experience, I would suggest that you make your boxes and then let the decorations come naturally over the life of the item. If it's utilitarian, maybe just scratch a few patterns or maybe a game board on the lid. If you like carving, you can do something more impressive over time.

            What I've noticed is that most of my Viking stuff isn't decorated, probably because when I'm not participating at SCA events, the stuff is packed away. Most of my idle time is filled with regular life projects.

            In Service to the Dream,
            Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
            Ashgrove, Barony of Altavia, Caid

            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
            >
            > Greetings
            >
            > I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering.
            >
            > Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source
            > for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not
            > carving).
            >
            >
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            >
            >
            > Bobby
            >
          • Dan Baker
            Sometimes I think it depends on usage, something utilitarian had much less decoration. For example, The Mastermyr chest was undecorated, but really well
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
              Sometimes I think it depends on usage, something utilitarian had much less decoration.  For example, The Mastermyr chest was undecorated, but really well built..  It ended up in a bog full of blacksmith and carpenter tools.  it probably bounced off the back of someones wagon and was gone..  Now It was obviously not built for the specific job it was being used for.  Based on the size and shape, there is an excellent chance it started out as a rowing chest.  you store your belongings in it and sit on it while you row the galley.  the lock was busted well before it was losts and it was wrapped in a chain, probably to replace the lock.  How we treat the stuff that we have the most work into is different from how we treat everyday items.  So the stuff that has survived is the high end, not the daily use stuff.  that is also why we have so much church furniture and almost no peasant stuff.  Quality doesn't just last, it's better taken care of.

              IN MY OPINION, the single best way to carve a chest is make two, give one to a carver.  Works with blacksmiths for hinges and locks too.

              -Capten Rhys

              On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Eric <ewdysar@...> wrote:
               

              Almost all extant examples of wooden Viking goods (chests, boxes, utensils, cups, etc.) that I have seen are decorated in some fashion. Whether it's formal carving or just pictures or patterns scratched into the surface, somebody left their mark on their stuff. I believe that this came from "long winter nights", where one didn't have much else to do.

              In my opinion, if you really want to emulate the Viking experience, I would suggest that you make your boxes and then let the decorations come naturally over the life of the item. If it's utilitarian, maybe just scratch a few patterns or maybe a game board on the lid. If you like carving, you can do something more impressive over time.

              What I've noticed is that most of my Viking stuff isn't decorated, probably because when I'm not participating at SCA events, the stuff is packed away. Most of my idle time is filled with regular life projects.

              In Service to the Dream,
              Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
              Ashgrove, Barony of Altavia, Caid


              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
              >
              > Greetings
              >
              > I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering.
              >
              > Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source
              > for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not
              > carving).
              >
              >
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              >
              >
              > Bobby
              >


            • Graham Eyre
              For the main part Viking Furniture [including chests] was plain. here is a link that may interest as it covers quite a lot of eras.
              Message 6 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
                For the main part Viking Furniture [including chests] was plain. here is a link that may interest as it covers quite a lot of eras.
                 
                Cheers
                 
                Graham

                From: Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...>
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, 4 June 2011 3:37 AM
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)



                Greetings
                I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering…
                Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not carving)…
                 
                Thanks
                 
                Bobby




              • Graham Eyre
                Here is another link that may be of interest, this guy seems to have done quite a lot of reserch also.  
                Message 7 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
                  Here is another link that may be of interest, this guy seems to have done quite a lot of reserch also.
                   
                   
                  Cheers
                   
                  Graham 

                  From: Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...>
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, 4 June 2011 5:37 AM
                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)



                  Don't recall any in museums with woodburning. Can you enlighten?
                  On Jun 3, 2011 12:03 PM, "AqA WyrdWynd" <wyrdwynd@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > they can be painted or woodburned or plain, im will to bet the farm that most were plain, and only households with craftsmens with decorative skills would have fancy chest
                  >
                  > have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> From: Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...>
                  >> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
                  >> To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 11:37 AM
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Greetings
                  >>
                  >> I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering…
                  >>
                  >> Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not carving)…
                  >>
                  >>  
                  >>
                  >> Thanks
                  >>
                  >>  
                  >>
                  >> Bobby
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >




                • AlbionWood
                  I think this is one of the best suggestions I ve read here in a long time.
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jun 3, 2011
                    I think this is one of the best suggestions I've read here in a long time.

                    On 6/3/2011 11:08 AM, Eric wrote:

                    > In my opinion, if you really want to emulate the Viking experience, I would suggest that you make your boxes and then let the decorations come naturally over the life of the item. If it's utilitarian, maybe just scratch a few patterns or maybe a game board on the lid. If you like carving, you can do something more impressive over time.
                  • AqA WyrdWynd
                    sorry half a sleep posting....wasnt thinking authentically or or clearly..heheh pete have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!! ... From: Jeffrey
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jun 4, 2011
                      sorry half a sleep posting....wasnt thinking authentically or or clearly..heheh
                      pete

                      have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!



                      --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:

                      From: Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...>
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 1:37 PM



                      Don't recall any in museums with woodburning. Can you enlighten?
                      On Jun 3, 2011 12:03 PM, "AqA WyrdWynd" <wyrdwynd@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      > they can be painted or woodburned or plain, im will to bet the farm that most were plain, and only households with craftsmens with decorative skills would have fancy chest
                      >
                      > have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- On Fri, 6/3/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> From: Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...>
                      >> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking Chest(s)
                      >> To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 11:37 AM
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Greetings
                      >>
                      >> I am building a few Viking chests, and was wondering…
                      >>
                      >> Were they mostly as elaborate (carving) as on the internet (my only source for this kind of info) or were they mostly plan (not much carving or not carving)…
                      >>
                      >>  
                      >>
                      >> Thanks
                      >>
                      >>  
                      >>
                      >> Bobby
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >



                    • Sean Powell
                      Hello, I m doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me. For medieval chairs I can say Glastonbury , Fauldstool , Crulle and a couple of
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
                        Hello,
                        I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
                        For medieval chairs I can say "Glastonbury", "Fauldstool", "Crulle" and
                        a couple of other names and within certain parameters we all understand
                        what shape, look and construction method is implied. When I look for
                        beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the generic terms of "Rope"
                        or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the 14th or
                        15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
                        names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
                        one has named any since 900ad?
                        Thanks,
                        Sean
                      • Graham Eyre
                        Can t find any specific names for that era, but there is a lot of scope from slate type bed to a 4 poster   From: Sean Powell To:
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
                          Can't find any specific names for that era, but there is a lot of scope from slate type bed to a 4 poster
                           

                          From: Sean Powell <powell.sean@...>
                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, 6 June 2011 11:05 AM
                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                          Hello,
                              I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
                          For medieval chairs I can say "Glastonbury", "Fauldstool", "Crulle" and
                          a couple of other names and within certain parameters we all understand
                          what shape, look and construction method is implied. When I look for
                          beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the generic terms of "Rope"
                          or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the 14th or
                          15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
                          names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
                          one has named any since 900ad?
                              Thanks,
                                  Sean


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                        • camdus17@juno.com
                          You can add tester , half-tester , and canopy but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs. One issue that I
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011

                            You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.

                            One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).

                            I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.

                            I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.

                            The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.

                            --Dunstan M'Lolane

                            ____________________________________________________________
                            Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!

                          • Gary Link
                            On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
                              On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make for a more comfortable sleep.

                              In Service
                              Hal 


                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              From: camdus17@...
                              Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000
                              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                               

                              You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.
                              One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).
                              I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.
                              I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.
                              The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.
                              --Dunstan M'Lolane
                              ____________________________________________________________
                              Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!

                            • Graham Eyre
                              In days of old the houses were not exactly draft proof so the Curtains etc around a bed was to keep out the cold and drafts.   From: Gary Link
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jun 5, 2011
                                In days of old the houses were not exactly draft proof so the Curtains etc around a bed was to keep out the cold and drafts.
                                 

                                From: Gary Link <halraeburn@...>
                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Monday, 6 June 2011 2:07 PM
                                Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture



                                On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make for a more comfortable sleep.

                                In Service
                                Hal 

                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                From: camdus17@...
                                Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000
                                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                                 

                                You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.
                                One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).
                                I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.
                                I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.
                                The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.
                                --Dunstan M'Lolane
                                ____________________________________________________________
                                Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!





                              • Bobby Bourgoin
                                One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed. I don t
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011

                                  One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…

                                  I don’t know how fact or fiction this is but…  Like the people in the middle ages eat with there hands (for many this is fact, but we here all know this to be fiction), or that people in the middles ages didn’t wash (this is fiction and a mix up between medieval and renaissance, with the invention of perfumes, in the renaissance age people got lazy and stopped washing to cover-up with perfumes)

                                   

                                  Bobby

                                   


                                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Gary Link
                                  Sent: 5 juin 2011 22:08
                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                                   

                                   

                                  On the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make for a more comfortable sleep.

                                   

                                  In Service

                                  Hal 

                                   


                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: camdus17@...
                                  Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000
                                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                                   


                                  You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy" but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for ancient designs.
                                  One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of the mattress).
                                  I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground.  And the only difference between the two is the material used within the framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.
                                  I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I understand.
                                  The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce drafts.
                                  --Dunstan M'Lolane
                                  ____________________________________________________________
                                  Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!

                                • Julian Wilson
                                  ... One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
                                    --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
                                    One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…
                                    SNIPPED FOR BREVITY
                                    I don’t know how fact or fiction this is but…

                                    COMMENT
                                    Hmm - a bit too much generalisation there, Bobby.

                                    Middle Ages housing came in many "grades", and was " internally-finished" according to household income.
                                     And  - built according to what local materials were available.
                                    So - in areas where timber and reed or straw  were scarce but stone, and slate or tiles were plentiful,- [e.g - Wales, Cornwall, the Midland's moorlands] instead of a fairly prosperous freeholder living in a timber-framed house with a thatched roof, and a puddled clay floor, - you would have found that freeholder living in a stone-built house, roofed with stone slabs, slates, or clay tiles, and with floors of encaustic tiles, or stone slabs. Simply because it was cheaper to use the local materials than to import them from miles away.
                                    With no Thatch to hide and nest in, there were far-fewer  vermin living in the roofs.

                                    One is on much-safer ground going with the "enclosed bed-space" warmed by body heat and protected against draughts.
                                    What you call "four-poster beds with curtains and testers" were expensive items - so expensive that they were bequeathed to relatives in Wills.the lower Classes could not afford curtained 4-poster beds.
                                     The next social.income- level downwards were the "beds in cupboards or Wall recesses" - again, to keep the sleepers warm  from body heat and draught-exclusion.
                                    Even fisherfolk in Brittany [historically a very poor section of the working population who couldn't even afford straw or reeds for roofing, and used dried seaweed instead, ] - had such recessed or cupboard-enclosed beds. Surviving "cupboard beds" of whatever age, are now much-sought-after antiques in today's France.
                                    And at the other upper end of the social scale, nobles generally lived in many-storied residences built of masonry, and their personal  Chambers were mostly at least one level below the garrets. And the roofs of castles and fortified manor houses had non-flammable, impermeable coverings, -stone slabs, slates, sheets leading, or baked-clay roof-tiles such as the Romans had used; - with fewer places to harbour vermin such as rats and mice.

                                    The Weald & Downland Museum (Singleton, Sussex), Barley Hall (York); the Merchants House  (Southampton, Hampshie); and the 14th C. Tretower Court ( nr. Abergavenny, S. Wales) - are all good examples of the housing to which I refer.

                                    regards,
                                     Matthewe Baker

                                     


                                     

                                     









                                    On
                                    the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies
                                    and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the
                                    same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make
                                    for a more comfortable sleep.



                                     





                                    In Service





                                    Hal 



                                     











                                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com

                                    From:
                                    camdus17@...

                                    Date:
                                    Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000

                                    Subject:
                                    Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture



                                     









                                    You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy"
                                    but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for
                                    ancient designs.

                                    One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall
                                    into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress
                                    and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of
                                    the mattress).

                                    I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and
                                    "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground. 
                                    And the only difference between the two is the material used within the
                                    framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame
                                    consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts
                                    at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the
                                    runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and
                                    head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.

                                    I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at
                                    all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here)
                                    may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when
                                    hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with
                                    mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I
                                    understand.

                                    The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of
                                    the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they
                                    are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy
                                    beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four
                                    light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is
                                    also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the
                                    two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples
                                    there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A
                                    half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half
                                    of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy
                                    drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce
                                    drafts.

                                    --Dunstan M'Lolane

                                    ____________________________________________________________

                                    Get
                                    Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!








































                                  • maf@gleichen.ca
                                    ... I read that the first hammocks where brought to Europe from Barbados by Christopher Columbas and where not addopted by the British Navy until 1590 (the
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
                                      >
                                      > I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the
                                      > ground at all. Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and
                                      > hermits here) may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves. I'm
                                      > not sure when hammocks came into use in European culture, but the
                                      > framed hammocks with mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels
                                      > were quite comfortable, I understand.
                                      >
                                      > --Dunstan M'Lolane





                                      I read that the first hammocks where brought to Europe from Barbados by
                                      Christopher Columbas and where not addopted by the British Navy until
                                      1590 (the canvas sling type became standad in 1597), prior to that they
                                      used wooden bunks and injuries and fatalities from rolling out of your
                                      bunk where common in the British Navy.

                                      Mark
                                    • Broom
                                      ... Rising damp would quickly mildew these mattresses, which were probably straw ticks (or the equivalent using other plant fibers), usually contained in cloth
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
                                        Dunstan M'Lolane wrote:
                                        > I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.

                                        Rising damp would quickly mildew these mattresses, which were probably
                                        straw ticks (or the equivalent using other plant fibers), usually
                                        contained in cloth bags, so I suspect even the poorest tried to raise
                                        their mattresses off the ground.

                                        ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
                                        ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
                                        ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
                                        '\|/ "Discere et docere", which means:
                                        '/|\ "The world is like a mirror, you see? Smile, and your friends
                                        //|\\ smile back." - Japanese Zen saying
                                      • Julian Wilson
                                        Correct - that s where the truckle bed came from. These are simple bed-frames with rope suspensions and short legs, which raised the palliasse 4 to 6 inches
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
                                          Correct - that's where the "truckle bed" came from. These are simple bed-frames with rope suspensions and short legs, which raised the palliasse 4 to 6 inches off the ground,  usually designed to roll in under a "great bed".  The Weald & Downland Museum, Singleton, West Sussex, has several excellent replicas, drawn from extant examples in various Museum Collactions.
                                          The poorest folk would likely make a kind of under-couch from bundles of dried ferns or long straw - or of something similar - which would provide a layer of insulation. The palliasses of the poor would likely be picked-up each morning and either put to "air" - or be rolled-up out of the way of the day's activities - especially in "one room" dwellings. And when the under-couch needed changing - it would go into the beasts' byres or the stable, as bedding/food.

                                          In service,
                                           Matthewe Baker

                                          --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Broom <IAmBroom@...> wrote:

                                          From: Broom <IAmBroom@...>
                                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Named medieval furniture
                                          To:
                                          Cc: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Monday, 6 June, 2011, 15:39

                                           

                                          Dunstan M'Lolane wrote:
                                          > I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at all.

                                          Rising damp would quickly mildew these mattresses, which were probably
                                          straw ticks (or the equivalent using other plant fibers), usually
                                          contained in cloth bags, so I suspect even the poorest tried to raise
                                          their mattresses off the ground.

                                          ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
                                          ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
                                          ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
                                          '\|/ "Discere et docere", which means:
                                          '/|\ "The world is like a mirror, you see? Smile, and your friends
                                          //|\\ smile back." - Japanese Zen saying

                                        • tessa_rat
                                          According to Victor Chinnery there are a number of references, in inventories and such, to folding or traveling beds. Unfortunately, due to hard use and
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011
                                            According to Victor Chinnery there are a number of references, in inventories and such, to folding or traveling beds. Unfortunately, due to hard use and relatively light construction, none appear to have survived. What we are left with is household beds and viking burials.

                                            One could interpret a traveling bed as simply a more lightly built version of a household bed (I've done several of these, or, and I personally think this is quite likely, a scissor folding "army" cot with a mechanism similar to a "Savanarola" or "Glastonbury" chair.

                                            It's an area that I think deserves a bit of exploration and experimentation... Right... off to the shop with me. :~)

                                            Fritz Wilhelm
                                            welldressedtent.com

                                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Sean Powell <powell.sean@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Hello,
                                            > I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
                                            > <<<snip>>>
                                            > When I look for
                                            > beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the generic terms of "Rope"
                                            > or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the 14th or
                                            > 15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
                                            > names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
                                            > one has named any since 900ad?
                                            > Thanks,
                                            > Sean
                                            >
                                          • Bobby Bourgoin
                                            Of course. that is what I meant with the rest of the mail. fact or fiction (my thoughts, mostly fiction) Bobby _____ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011

                                              Of course… that is what I meant with the rest of the mail…  fact or fiction (my thoughts, mostly fiction)

                                               

                                              Bobby

                                               


                                              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Julian Wilson
                                              Sent: 6 juin 2011 09:16
                                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture

                                               

                                               

                                              --- On Mon, 6/6/11, Bobby Bourgoin <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
                                              One other reason I read for the wood or drapery roof on the bed was to keep the rats that fell of the (house) roof rafters from falling on the bed…
                                              SNIPPED FOR BREVITY
                                              I don’t know how fact or fiction this is but…

                                              COMMENT
                                              Hmm - a bit too much generalisation there, Bobby.

                                              Middle Ages housing came in many "grades", and was " internally-finished" according to household income.
                                               And  - built according to what local materials were available.
                                              So - in areas where timber and reed or straw  were scarce but stone, and slate or tiles were plentiful,- [e.g - Wales, Cornwall, the Midland's moorlands] instead of a fairly prosperous freeholder living in a timber-framed house with a thatched roof, and a puddled clay floor, - you would have found that freeholder living in a stone-built house, roofed with stone slabs, slates, or clay tiles, and with floors of encaustic tiles, or stone slabs. Simply because it was cheaper to use the local materials than to import them from miles away.
                                              With no Thatch to hide and nest in, there were far-fewer  vermin living in the roofs.

                                              One is on much-safer ground going with the "enclosed bed-space" warmed by body heat and protected against draughts.
                                              What you call "four-poster beds with curtains and testers" were expensive items - so expensive that they were bequeathed to relatives in Wills.the lower Classes could not afford curtained 4-poster beds.
                                               The next social.income- level downwards were the "beds in cupboards or Wall recesses" - again, to keep the sleepers warm  from body heat and draught-exclusion.
                                              Even fisherfolk in Brittany [historically a very poor section of the working population who couldn't even afford straw or reeds for roofing, and used dried seaweed instead, ] - had such recessed or cupboard-enclosed beds. Surviving "cupboard beds" of whatever age, are now much-sought-after antiques in today's France .
                                              And at the other upper end of the social scale, nobles generally lived in many-storied residences built of masonry, and their personal  Chambers were mostly at least one level below the garrets. And the roofs of castles and fortified manor houses had non-flammable, impermeable coverings, -stone slabs, slates, sheets leading, or baked-clay roof-tiles such as the Romans had used; - with fewer places to harbour vermin such as rats and mice.

                                              The Weald & Downland Museum ( Singleton , Sussex ), Barley Hall ( York ); the Merchants House  (Southampton, Hampshie); and the 14th C. Tretower Court ( nr. Abergavenny, S. Wales ) - are all good examples of the housing to which I refer.

                                              regards,
                                               Matthewe Baker

                                               


                                               

                                               









                                              On
                                              the examples I have seen and read about the propose of the draperies
                                              and paneling(they cover the top as well as the sides) on the beds is the
                                              same principle as a sleeping bag or small tent. It holds in the heat to make
                                              for a more comfortable sleep.



                                               





                                              In Service





                                              Hal 



                                               











                                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com

                                              From:
                                              camdus17@...

                                              Date:
                                              Mon, 6 Jun 2011 00:50:14 +0000

                                              Subject:
                                              Re: [MedievalSawdust] Named medieval furniture



                                               









                                              You can add "tester", "half-tester", and "canopy"
                                              but I am unsure if these were terms used in period or are modern terms for
                                              ancient designs.

                                              One issue that I observed right away is that the terms we have been using fall
                                              into two categories: those that describe the method of supporting the mattress
                                              and those that describe the posts (and what the posts become above the level of
                                              the mattress).

                                              I don't think you are likely to discover much past "rope" and
                                              "slat" as a means of supporting a mattress off of the ground. 
                                              And the only difference between the two is the material used within the
                                              framework.  Everything else is essentially the same: a wooden frame
                                              consisting of two parallel runners and a headboard and a footboard with posts
                                              at each intersection.  The slat bed will have slat ledges along the
                                              runners whereas the rope bed will have holes drilled in the runners and
                                              head/footboards to accomodate the ropes.

                                              I imagine many mattresses in poorer homes never made it off of the ground at
                                              all.  Other mattresses (I'm thinking of cloistered monks and hermits here)
                                              may have been on ledges: wooden or stone shelves.  I'm not sure when
                                              hammocks came into use in European culture, but the framed hammocks with
                                              mattresses that were used in age-of-sail vessels were quite comfortable, I
                                              understand.

                                              The posts do not need to rise above the level of the mattress (or the levels of
                                              the head- and foot-boards if they are taller).  But if they do, then they
                                              are variably described as four-posters, testers, half-testers, and canopy
                                              beds.  A four-poster just has four tall posts.  A tester bed has four
                                              light rails (testers) connecting the tops of the posts.  Usually there is
                                              also one or two more light rails parallel to the headboard and connecting the
                                              two long testers part way along their length.  In some very old examples
                                              there are panels within this framework, making a ceiling above the bed.  A
                                              half-tester bed has this "ceiling" solely above the top third or half
                                              of the bed.  A canopy bed replaces the wooden panels with heavy
                                              drapery.  The point of the panels and drapes is, of course, to reduce
                                              drafts.

                                              --Dunstan M'Lolane

                                              ____________________________________________________________

                                              Get
                                              Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat!







































                                            • Bobby Bourgoin
                                              There is also the neat bed in a box, somewhere on the site for this group. Bobby _____ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jun 6, 2011

                                                There is also the neat bed in a box, somewhere on the site for this group…

                                                 

                                                Bobby

                                                 


                                                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of tessa_rat
                                                Sent: 6 juin 2011 12:13
                                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Named medieval furniture

                                                 

                                                 

                                                According to Victor Chinnery there are a number of references, in inventories and such, to folding or traveling beds. Unfortunately, due to hard use and relatively light construction, none appear to have survived. What we are left with is household beds and viking burials.

                                                One could interpret a traveling bed as simply a more lightly built version of a household bed (I've done several of these, or, and I personally think this is quite likely, a scissor folding "army" cot with a mechanism similar to a "Savanarola" or "Glastonbury" chair.

                                                It's an area that I think deserves a bit of exploration and experimentation... Right... off to the shop with me. :~)

                                                Fritz Wilhelm
                                                welldressedtent.com

                                                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Sean Powell <powell.sean@...> wrote:

                                                >
                                                > Hello,
                                                > I'm doing research into a new camp bed and a thought has struck me.
                                                > <<<snip>>>
                                                > When I look for
                                                > beds I'm limited to "Oseberg", "Gokstad" and the
                                                generic terms of "Rope"
                                                > or "Slat". Are there any other named beds, preferably from the
                                                14th or
                                                > 15th cent that I am unaware of? Are they so abundant that we don't need
                                                > names that are more detailed or are they simply so uninteresting that no
                                                > one has named any since 900ad?
                                                > Thanks,
                                                > Sean
                                                >

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