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Re: Unmedievally OT: Wood glue strengths, and woodworking links

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  • Chris
    I also have had disappointing results with gorilla glue. Fine Woodworking magazine did a test a few years ago and found that gorilla glue was significantly
    Message 1 of 5 , May 5, 2011
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      I also have had disappointing results with gorilla glue. Fine Woodworking magazine did a test a few years ago and found that gorilla glue was significantly worse than the other glues, worse even than plain carpenter's glue. And it was also worse in gap filling applications which is it's supposed strong point. Since then I haven't touched the stuff.

      Plus, because it expands, I have trouble controlling the stuff. I just go with titebond or similar stuff now.

      Here's the article, although you have to be a member to see it:

      http://www.finewoodworking.com/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=28897

      Chris

      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Broom <IAmBroom@...> wrote:
      >
      > So, I'm building some cabinets, and tried to join them with Gorilla
      > glue, hoping to simplify the process of assembly. Ignore the sense of
      > that first idea, and let's get straight to the results...
      >
      > Some of the joints failed with minimal stress (moderate handling).
      > Others seemed stronger, but I didn't give them a real shakedown. I've
      > decided to back up all glued joint with brads. However, I was left
      > wondering what went wrong...
      >
      > This site:
      > http://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html
      > ... reinforces the manufacturer's claims that Gorilla glue is very
      > strong. The author suggests that Titebond 3 is the strongest glue of
      > all, but the single-test failure differences are actually rather
      > slight for the "first-tier" glues (Hot glue, Epoxy, and "Varnish as
      > glue" were noticeably weaker).
      >
      > Nonetheless, I had joints fail when dropped a few inches onto cement,
      > all on the glue line (no wood failure). These were end/long-grain and
      > cross-grain joints. The joints were clamped for the recommended 30
      > minutes (usually much longer), and cured for the recommended 24 hrs.
      > The failure was from shock, not sheer force (the above webpage only
      > tests sheer failures).
      >
      > So, any clues what went wrong?
      > * Expanding polyurethane may be very sensitive to shock. Like glass,
      > it may be strong, but brittle.
      > * Maybe I didn't have enough glue. (But good lord, I tried! And had to
      > clean most joints of excess.)
      > * The garage was cool; this slows cure times. However, this wouldn't
      > explain why some joints were strong and others weak.
      >
      > --
      >
      > Someone recently asked for woodworking blog links, This site is pretty
      > fascinating.
      > http://woodgears.ca/links.html
      >
      > ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
      > ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
      > ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
      > '\|/ "Discere et docere", which means:
      > '/|\ "We see with our eyes only to the degree that we use journalists
      > //|\\ to read our newspapers."
      >
    • AlbionWood
      More detail needed about the joints: ... Nothing glues well on end-grain, so no surprise if those failed. Cross-grain can hold, if they are well-made. GG is
      Message 2 of 5 , May 5, 2011
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        More detail needed about the joints:

        On 5/4/2011 9:15 PM, Broom wrote:
        > These were end/long-grain and
        > cross-grain joints.

        Nothing glues well on end-grain, so no surprise if those failed.
        Cross-grain can hold, if they are well-made.

        GG is brittle and in my experience does tend to fail under shock loads.
        I gave up on it, and its much poorer-quality imitator from Franklin,
        when I started having to repair long-grain edge-joints that broke
        cleanly along the glueline. I think this is a case where the test
        procedure fails to reveal the true weakness.

        You also mentioned that you had to clean up squeeze-out on "most" of the
        joints. GG and the other expanding PS glues should ALWAYS make a big
        squeeze-out mess; if there isn't a significant and continuous bead of
        foam on both edges of the join, you had a bad joint. (Side note: Never
        try to wipe off the excess, you'll only make a worse mess. Wait for it
        to cure and you can just pop it right off with a chisel. This is also
        true for yellow glue.)

        Better luck,
        Tim
      • Kean Gryffyth
        I ve not had good luck with Gorilla Glue. I stick to Titebond III, unless I m working in a particularly dark wood, in which case I ll use Titebond II for dark
        Message 3 of 5 , May 5, 2011
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          I've not had good luck with Gorilla Glue. I stick to Titebond III,
          unless I'm working in a particularly dark wood, in which case I'll use
          Titebond II for dark wood.

          -Kean

          On 5/5/2011 12:15 AM, Broom wrote:
          > So, I'm building some cabinets, and tried to join them with Gorilla
          > glue, hoping to simplify the process of assembly. Ignore the sense of
          > that first idea, and let's get straight to the results...
          >
          > Some of the joints failed with minimal stress (moderate handling).
          > Others seemed stronger, but I didn't give them a real shakedown. I've
          > decided to back up all glued joint with brads. However, I was left
          > wondering what went wrong...
          >
          > This site:
          > http://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html
          > ... reinforces the manufacturer's claims that Gorilla glue is very
          > strong. The author suggests that Titebond 3 is the strongest glue of
          > all, but the single-test failure differences are actually rather
          > slight for the "first-tier" glues (Hot glue, Epoxy, and "Varnish as
          > glue" were noticeably weaker).
          >
          > Nonetheless, I had joints fail when dropped a few inches onto cement,
          > all on the glue line (no wood failure). These were end/long-grain and
          > cross-grain joints. The joints were clamped for the recommended 30
          > minutes (usually much longer), and cured for the recommended 24 hrs.
          > The failure was from shock, not sheer force (the above webpage only
          > tests sheer failures).
          >
          > So, any clues what went wrong?
          > * Expanding polyurethane may be very sensitive to shock. Like glass,
          > it may be strong, but brittle.
          > * Maybe I didn't have enough glue. (But good lord, I tried! And had to
          > clean most joints of excess.)
          > * The garage was cool; this slows cure times. However, this wouldn't
          > explain why some joints were strong and others weak.
          >
          > --
          >
          > Someone recently asked for woodworking blog links, This site is pretty
          > fascinating.
          > http://woodgears.ca/links.html
          >
          > ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
          > ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
          > ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
          > '\|/ "Discere et docere", which means:
          > '/|\ "We see with our eyes only to the degree that we use journalists
          > //|\\ to read our newspapers."
        • Alex Haugland
          did you wet mating surfaces? the urethane glues rely on moisture to cure properly... --Alysaundre Weldon Barony of Adiantum Kingdom of An Tir
          Message 4 of 5 , May 5, 2011
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            did you wet mating surfaces?  the urethane glues rely on moisture to cure properly...

            --Alysaundre Weldon
            Barony of Adiantum
            Kingdom of An Tir



            On May 5, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Kean Gryffyth <kad.dsl@...> wrote:

             

            I've not had good luck with Gorilla Glue. I stick to Titebond III,
            unless I'm working in a particularly dark wood, in which case I'll use
            Titebond II for dark wood.

            -Kean

            On 5/5/2011 12:15 AM, Broom wrote:
            > So, I'm building some cabinets, and tried to join them with Gorilla
            > glue, hoping to simplify the process of assembly. Ignore the sense of
            > that first idea, and let's get straight to the results...
            >
            > Some of the joints failed with minimal stress (moderate handling).
            > Others seemed stronger, but I didn't give them a real shakedown. I've
            > decided to back up all glued joint with brads. However, I was left
            > wondering what went wrong...
            >
            > This site:
            > http://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html
            > ... reinforces the manufacturer's claims that Gorilla glue is very
            > strong. The author suggests that Titebond 3 is the strongest glue of
            > all, but the single-test failure differences are actually rather
            > slight for the "first-tier" glues (Hot glue, Epoxy, and "Varnish as
            > glue" were noticeably weaker).
            >
            > Nonetheless, I had joints fail when dropped a few inches onto cement,
            > all on the glue line (no wood failure). These were end/long-grain and
            > cross-grain joints. The joints were clamped for the recommended 30
            > minutes (usually much longer), and cured for the recommended 24 hrs.
            > The failure was from shock, not sheer force (the above webpage only
            > tests sheer failures).
            >
            > So, any clues what went wrong?
            > * Expanding polyurethane may be very sensitive to shock. Like glass,
            > it may be strong, but brittle.
            > * Maybe I didn't have enough glue. (But good lord, I tried! And had to
            > clean most joints of excess.)
            > * The garage was cool; this slows cure times. However, this wouldn't
            > explain why some joints were strong and others weak.
            >
            > --
            >
            > Someone recently asked for woodworking blog links, This site is pretty
            > fascinating.
            > http://woodgears.ca/links.html
            >
            > ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
            > ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
            > ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
            > '\|/ "Discere et docere", which means:
            > '/|\ "We see with our eyes only to the degree that we use journalists
            > //|\\ to read our newspapers."

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