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RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Request to join medievalsawdust approved

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  • D. Young
    As a thought for mulling over... One of the problems I have noticed with the laurelite approach and with merchant juries is that they often do not account for
    Message 1 of 11 , May 1, 2011
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      As a thought for mulling over...

      One of the problems I have noticed with the laurelite approach and with merchant juries is that they often do not account for every day objects but rather the wow-factor for swanky things.

      Archeology and extant items tell us that a great many period things were in fact pretty ordinary, maybe even bland or boring.    Armour and clothing, by far the most celebrated things in the sca are often viewed as "puting your best foot forward items" where as many utilitarian objects that have no real wow-value and might even be fairly rough tend to be less appealing than just furniture.   A well made butter churn, made with period tools and lathe hoops aint pretty but it works.    A simple laundry battle is hardly that much of a big deal, but it helped a lot.   A basic cutting board or wooden handled tool might not seem like a big deal but they often represent a lot of time learning the craft using period tools and period woods. 

      I might propose, for the sake of period woodworking that furniture be only one category of woodenwares....and that there be some openness for the more mundane and boring of items that by far, had more utilitarian and practical every day uses than a gorgeous chest or Glastonbury chair. 

      Barrels.....lord have mercy....just coopering with period tools/techniques is a hell of a craft to master.  Ive dont just enough to realize how easy it is to screw up without modern tools.

      And while a barrel does not usually draw the crowds attention like a fine gothic chest, a barrel is such a fundamental part of the basic economy that such things should not be forgotten or overlooked.

      cheers
      Drew



      Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

           Custom Commissions Welcome....!

      www.partsandtechnical.com
      (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
       





      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      From: pennsicartisans@...
      Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:04:41 -0400
      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Request to join medievalsawdust approved

       
      Greetings unto the Members of the Medieval Sawdust Group,

      I am Fiadnata ó Gleann Àlainn, the coordinator for Artisans Row at Pennsic 40. I have had Woodworking proposed as a possible day on Artisans Row, so I am now in search of other woodworkers to help fill the tent for a full day.

      If anyone is interested in participating, please e-mail me off-list at pennsic artisans @ gmail. com (take out all spaces), and I will put you in touch with the organizer of the Day.

      Thank you for any help you may be able to provide. Please excuse this intrusion into the discussions on your list -- they all look interesting! (You need to see my Warp-Weighted Loom to understand how much I appreciate playing with wood!)

      --
      In Service,

      Fiadnata ó Gleann Àlainn
      Dean of the School of Applied Arts (Artisans Row)
      Pennsic University


    • Jeffrey Johnson
      This would apply to most areas - sexay objects get attention, even if historically inappropriate, wrong materials, wrong technique, and the item would never
      Message 2 of 11 , May 1, 2011
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        This would apply to most areas - sexay objects get attention, even if historically inappropriate, wrong materials, wrong technique, and the item would never have existed in the time period portrayed.

        For judging, it depends on who's doing the judging. Problems arise when the judging panels are drawn from people who aren't well versed in the area, so you get that aattention paid to the gaudy and shoddy over well-built and appropriate. Not a big pool to draw from for woodworking, I could count those I would consider adequate judges in Atlantia on one hand, and its hit-n-miss to get them to attend and judge.

        Jeff

        On May 1, 2011 6:14 PM, "D. Young" <furnaceplans@...> wrote:
        >
        >  
        >
        > As a thought for mulling over...
        >
        > One of the problems I have noticed with the laurelite approach and with merchant juries is that they often do not account for every day objects but rather the wow-factor for swanky things.
        >
        > Archeology and extant items tell us that a great many period things were in fact pretty ordinary, maybe even bland or boring.    Armour and clothing, by far the most celebrated things in the sca are often viewed as "puting your best foot forward items" where as many utilitarian objects that have no real wow-value and might even be fairly rough tend to be less appealing than just furniture.   A well made butter churn, made with period tools and lathe hoops aint pretty but it works.    A simple laundry battle is hardly that much of a big deal, but it helped a lot.   A basic cutting board or wooden handled tool might not seem like a big deal but they often represent a lot of time learning the craft using period tools and period woods. 
        >
        > I might propose, for the sake of period woodworking that furniture be only one category of woodenwares....and that there be some openness for the more mundane and boring of items that by far, had more utilitarian and practical every day uses than a gorgeous chest or Glastonbury chair. 
        >
        > Barrels.....lord have mercy....just coopering with period tools/techniques is a hell of a craft to master.  Ive dont just enough to realize how easy it is to screw up without modern tools.
        >
        > And while a barrel does not usually draw the crowds attention like a fine gothic chest, a barrel is such a fundamental part of the basic economy that such things should not be forgotten or overlooked.
        >
        > cheers
        > Drew
        >
        > ________________________________
        >
        >>>>> Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions
        >>>>>
        >>>>>      Custom Commissions Welcome....!
        >>>>>
        >>>>> www.partsandtechnical.com
        >>>>> (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        > From: pennsicartisans@...
        > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:04:41 -0400
        >
        > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Request to join medievalsawdust approved
        >
        >  
        > Greetings unto the Members of the Medieval Sawdust Group,
        >
        > I am Fiadnata ó Gleann Àlainn, the coordinator for Artisans Row at Pennsic 40. I have had Woodworking proposed as a possible day on Artisans Row, so I am now in search of other woodworkers to help fill the tent for a full day.
        >
        > If anyone is interested in participating, please e-mail me off-list at pennsic artisans @ gmail. com (take out all spaces), and I will put you in touch with the organizer of the Day.
        >
        > Thank you for any help you may be able to provide. Please excuse this intrusion into the discussions on your list -- they all look interesting! (You need to see my Warp-Weighted Loom to understand how much I appreciate playing with wood!)
        >
        > --
        > In Service,
        >
        > Fiadnata ó Gleann Àlainn
        > Dean of the School of Applied Arts (Artisans Row)
        > Pennsic University
        >
        >
        >

      • D. Young
        Good points Jeff. We should have outside judges like MTA. Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions Custom Commissions Welcome....! www.partsandtechnical.com
        Message 3 of 11 , May 1, 2011
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          Good points Jeff.  We should have outside judges like MTA.







          Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

               Custom Commissions Welcome....!

          www.partsandtechnical.com
          (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
           





          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          From: jljonsn@...
          Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 20:09:43 -0400
          Subject: Re: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Request to join medievalsawdust approved

           

          This would apply to most areas - sexay objects get attention, even if historically inappropriate, wrong materials, wrong technique, and the item would never have existed in the time period portrayed.
          For judging, it depends on who's doing the judging. Problems arise when the judging panels are drawn from people who aren't well versed in the area, so you get that aattention paid to the gaudy and shoddy over well-built and appropriate. Not a big pool to draw from for woodworking, I could count those I would consider adequate judges in Atlantia on one hand, and its hit-n-miss to get them to attend and judge.
          Jeff

          On May 1, 2011 6:14 PM, "D. Young" <furnaceplans@...> wrote:
          >
          >  
          >
          > As a thought for mulling over...
          >
          > One of the problems I have noticed with the laurelite approach and with merchant juries is that they often do not account for every day objects but rather the wow-factor for swanky things.
          >
          > Archeology and extant items tell us that a great many period things were in fact pretty ordinary, maybe even bland or boring.    Armour and clothing, by far the most celebrated things in the sca are often viewed as "puting your best foot forward items" where as many utilitarian objects that have no real wow-value and might even be fairly rough tend to be less appealing than just furniture.   A well made butter churn, made with period tools and lathe hoops aint pretty but it works.    A simple laundry battle is hardly that much of a big deal, but it helped a lot.   A basic cutting board or wooden handled tool might not seem like a big deal but they often represent a lot of time learning the craft using period tools and period woods. 
          >
          > I might propose, for the sake of period woodworking that furniture be only one category of woodenwares....and that there be some openness for the more mundane and boring of items that by far, had more utilitarian and practical every day uses than a gorgeous chest or Glastonbury chair. 
          >
          > Barrels.....lord have mercy....just coopering with period tools/techniques is a hell of a craft to master.  Ive dont just enough to realize how easy it is to screw up without modern tools.
          >
          > And while a barrel does not usually draw the crowds attention like a fine gothic chest, a barrel is such a fundamental part of the basic economy that such things should not be forgotten or overlooked.
          >
          > cheers
          > Drew
          >
          > ________________________________
          >
          >>>>> Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions
          >>>>>
          >>>>>      Custom Commissions Welcome....!
          >>>>>
          >>>>> www.partsandtechnical.com
          >>>>> (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          > From: pennsicartisans@...
          > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:04:41 -0400
          >
          > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Request to join medievalsawdust approved
          >
          >  
          > Greetings unto the Members of the Medieval Sawdust Group,
          >
          > I am Fiadnata ó Gleann Àlainn, the coordinator for Artisans Row at Pennsic 40. I have had Woodworking proposed as a possible day on Artisans Row, so I am now in search of other woodworkers to help fill the tent for a full day.
          >
          > If anyone is interested in participating, please e-mail me off-list at pennsic artisans @ gmail. com (take out all spaces), and I will put you in touch with the organizer of the Day.
          >
          > Thank you for any help you may be able to provide. Please excuse this intrusion into the discussions on your list -- they all look interesting! (You need to see my Warp-Weighted Loom to understand how much I appreciate playing with wood!)
          >
          > --
          > In Service,
          >
          > Fiadnata ó Gleann Àlainn
          > Dean of the School of Applied Arts (Artisans Row)
          > Pennsic University
          >
          >
          >

        • Julian Wilson
          ... This would apply to most areas - sexay objects get attention, even if historically inappropriate, wrong materials, wrong technique, and the item would
          Message 4 of 11 , May 2, 2011
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            --- On Mon, 2/5/11, Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
            This would apply to most areas - sexay objects get attention, even if historically inappropriate, wrong materials, wrong technique, and the item would never have existed in the time period portrayed.
            For judging, it depends on who's doing the judging.
            SNIPPAGE

            COMMENT
            Hmmm. as a Master Carpenter & Joiner in mundane life, who also plays in the SCA, I tend to agree.
            In our Kingdom, I don't enter A & S Competitions for 2 reasons
            a] a lack of competant judges for items made from wood. In the mundane world, I occasionally get commissions to make wooden items for museum displays.
             If I were going to set-aside workshop-production-time to create a "masterpiece" for an A. & S. Competition,  -
            a] before starting on it, I'd want the assurance that it would be judged by persons with a background in professional woodworking, who would understand exactly what levels of craft skill the making involved.
             and b] I feel it would be unfair for me to do so, setting my professional skills against those of amateur woodworkers.
            I don't feel I have anything to prove as a Craftsman in several discilplines.  I am already rated as a Master Craftsman by the only standard that matters to me - my mundane  Clients commission unique "one-off" jobs from me, and pay my invoices on completion & delivery.
            Instead, what I do is to exhibit in A.& S. displays, - certain items designed and made for use in  the "SCA-specific" camping environment, - to inspire folk to have-a-go themselves to improve their own period encampments.
            I exhibit simple items that can be easily made with a minimum of woodworking skills and a minimum of tools, if possible using "offcuts" from my "surplus-timber" bins; - and further, items that can be dismantled to fit into SCA-support-vehicles for transport, and for easy storage when the "owners" are back home.
            In this context, I have made lanterns, Banner stands, Banner staffs with swivelling top arms, scribal desks, shelf-units,  chairs, tables, benches, bed-frames convertible to either single or double sizes, "flat-packing" chests, coffers,  a "Pri-dieu", and even a " twin-tub" washing-up trough with a folding, waterproof, canvas insert.
             It is my hope that by doing this, I inspire some of our Populace to find the confidence to gradually upgrade their own "period encampments".

            In Service to the Dream,
             Matthewe Baker



          • D. Young
            good points Mathew! Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions Custom Commissions Welcome....! www.partsandtechnical.com (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming
            Message 5 of 11 , May 2, 2011
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              good points Mathew!



              Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                   Custom Commissions Welcome....!

              www.partsandtechnical.com
              (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
               





              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              From: lhjw66576@...
              Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 11:09:54 +0100
              Subject: Re: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Request to join medievalsawdust approved

               
              --- On Mon, 2/5/11, Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
              This would apply to most areas - sexay objects get attention, even if historically inappropriate, wrong materials, wrong technique, and the item would never have existed in the time period portrayed.
              For judging, it depends on who's doing the judging.
              SNIPPAGE

              COMMENT
              Hmmm. as a Master Carpenter & Joiner in mundane life, who also plays in the SCA, I tend to agree.
              In our Kingdom, I don't enter A & S Competitions for 2 reasons
              a] a lack of competant judges for items made from wood. In the mundane world, I occasionally get commissions to make wooden items for museum displays.
               If I were going to set-aside workshop-production-time to create a "masterpiece" for an A. & S. Competition,  -
              a] before starting on it, I'd want the assurance that it would be judged by persons with a background in professional woodworking, who would understand exactly what levels of craft skill the making involved.
               and b] I feel it would be unfair for me to do so, setting my professional skills against those of amateur woodworkers.
              I don't feel I have anything to prove as a Craftsman in several discilplines.  I am already rated as a Master Craftsman by the only standard that matters to me - my mundane  Clients commission unique "one-off" jobs from me, and pay my invoices on completion & delivery.
              Instead, what I do is to exhibit in A.& S. displays, - certain items designed and made for use in  the "SCA-specific" camping environment, - to inspire folk to have-a-go themselves to improve their own period encampments.
              I exhibit simple items that can be easily made with a minimum of woodworking skills and a minimum of tools, if possible using "offcuts" from my "surplus-timber" bins; - and further, items that can be dismantled to fit into SCA-support-vehicles for transport, and for easy storage when the "owners" are back home.
              In this context, I have made lanterns, Banner stands, Banner staffs with swivelling top arms, scribal desks, shelf-units,  chairs, tables, benches, bed-frames convertible to either single or double sizes, "flat-packing" chests, coffers,  a "Pri-dieu", and even a " twin-tub" washing-up trough with a folding, waterproof, canvas insert.
               It is my hope that by doing this, I inspire some of our Populace to find the confidence to gradually upgrade their own "period encampments".

              In Service to the Dream,
               Matthewe Baker




            • Lynda Fjellman
              Don t know where you live, but around here the laurelite approach is toward well made everyday objects. We are much more interested in that cool spring pole
              Message 6 of 11 , May 2, 2011
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                Don't know where you live, but around here the laurelite approach is toward well made everyday objects.  We are much more interested in that cool spring pole lathe and the well stitched seam than ooogles of googas.

                For instance, we currently have two people on vigil to be elevated to the order of the Laurel later this month.  One's main skills are making woodworking tools(well) and then using them(also well). And the other is for Norse lifestyle stuff.  She researched pigments used for dying sails, made sieves of hair, and other such things.

                Of course when you are running a demo the glitzy will get MUCH more attention than the simple, well made plain object.
                Ilaria



                 

                As a thought for mulling over...

                One of the problems I have noticed with the laurelite approach and with merchant juries is that they often do not account for every day objects but rather the wow-factor for swanky things.

              • patsmith
                One of the artisans who will be demonstrating and teaching on Artisan s Row during the woodworking exhibit is a cooper with many years of experience both in
                Message 7 of 11 , May 2, 2011
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                  One of the artisans who will be demonstrating and teaching
                  on Artisan's Row during the woodworking exhibit is a cooper
                  with many years of experience both in the SCA and outside
                  making barrels. Oddly enough, no furniture maker has
                  committed definitely to being there, although a few have
                  tentatively expressed interest.

                  I don't understand the comments about judging - if they are
                  refering to Artisan's Row at Pennsic, there is a basic
                  misunderstanding of what goes on there. The point of
                  artisan's row at Pennsic is to have a day-long exhibit and
                  demonstration of a craft where various artisans can come and
                  demo their art for the public, hopefully letting the
                  populace see just how much fun the craft can be. It's a
                  chance to get together with others who do the same art, swap
                  techniques and stories, and show off. No one is expected to
                  be there the whole day - stop by and play for as long as you
                  have the time.

                  Woodworking is scheduled for Wednesday of War week, so the
                  only war-point activity it conflicts with is the Archery
                  Champion's shoot.

                  Brusten

                  ----- Original Message Follows -----
                  From: Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...>
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Request to join
                  medievalsawdust approved
                  Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 20:09:43 -0400

                  > This would apply to most areas - sexay objects get
                  > attention, even if historically inappropriate, wrong
                  > materials, wrong technique, and the item would never have
                  > existed in the time period portrayed.
                  >
                  > For judging, it depends on who's doing the judging.
                  > Problems arise when the judging panels are drawn from
                  > people who aren't well versed in the area, so you get that
                  > aattention paid to the gaudy and shoddy over well-built
                  > and appropriate. Not a big pool to draw from for
                  > woodworking, I could count those I would consider adequate
                  > judges in Atlantia on one hand, and its hit-n-miss to get
                  > them to attend and judge.
                  >
                  > Jeff
                  >
                  > On May 1, 2011 6:14 PM, "D. Young"
                  > <furnaceplans@...> wrote: >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > As a thought for mulling over...
                  > >
                  > > One of the problems I have noticed with the laurelite
                  > approach and with merchant juries is that they often do
                  > not account for every day objects but rather the
                  > wow-factor for swanky things. >
                  > > Archeology and extant items tell us that a great many
                  > period things were in fact pretty ordinary, maybe even
                  > bland or boring. Armour and clothing, by far the most
                  > celebrated things in the sca are often viewed as "puting
                  > your best foot forward items" where as many utilitarian
                  > objects that have no real wow-value and might even be
                  > fairly rough tend to be less appealing than just
                  > furniture. A well made butter churn, made with period
                  > tools and lathe hoops aint pretty but it works. A
                  > simple laundry battle is hardly that much of a big deal,
                  > but it helped a lot. A basic cutting board or wooden
                  > handled tool might not seem like a big deal but they often
                  > represent a lot of time learning the craft using period
                  > tools and period woods. >
                  > > I might propose, for the sake of period woodworking that
                  > furniture be only one category of woodenwares....and that
                  > there be some openness for the more mundane and boring of
                  > items that by far, had more utilitarian and practical
                  > every day uses than a gorgeous chest or Glastonbury chair.
                  > > > Barrels.....lord have mercy....just coopering with
                  > period tools/techniques is a hell of a craft to master.
                  > Ive dont just enough to realize how easy it is to screw up
                  > without modern tools. >
                  > > And while a barrel does not usually draw the crowds
                  > attention like a fine gothic chest, a barrel is such a
                  > fundamental part of the basic economy that such things
                  > should not be forgotten or overlooked. >
                  > > cheers
                  > > Drew
                  > >
                  > > ________________________________
                  > >
                  > >>>>> Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> Custom Commissions Welcome....!
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> www.partsandtechnical.com
                  > >>>>> (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ________________________________
                  > > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  > > From: pennsicartisans@...
                  > > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:04:41 -0400
                  > >
                  > > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Request to join
                  > medievalsawdust approved >
                  > >
                  > > Greetings unto the Members of the Medieval Sawdust Group
                  > , >
                  > > I am Fiadnata ó Gleann Àlainn, the coordinator for
                  > Artisans Row at Pennsic 40. I have had Woodworking
                  > proposed as a possible day on Artisans Row, so I am now in
                  > search of other woodworkers to help fill the tent for a
                  > full day. >
                  > > If anyone is interested in participating, please e-mail
                  > me off-list at pennsic artisans @ gmail. com (take out all
                  > spaces), and I will put you in touch with the organizer of
                  > the Day. >
                  > > Thank you for any help you may be able to provide.
                  > Please excuse this intrusion into the discussions on your
                  > list -- they all look interesting! (You need to see my
                  > Warp-Weighted Loom to understand how much I appreciate
                  > playing with wood!) >
                  > > --
                  > > In Service,
                  > >
                  > > Fiadnata ó Gleann Àlainn
                  > > Dean of the School of Applied Arts (Artisans Row)
                  > > Pennsic University
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • conradh@efn.org
                  ... When I got mine, right after I swore fealty, the Queen said, I really like your tent stakes. So, yes, daily life objects can be appreciated too. Having
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 3, 2011
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                    > Don't know where you live, but around here the laurelite approach is
                    > toward well
                    > made everyday objects. We are much more interested in that cool spring
                    > pole
                    > lathe and the well stitched seam than ooogles of googas.
                    >
                    > For instance, we currently have two people on vigil to be elevated to the
                    > order
                    > of the Laurel later this month. One's main skills are making woodworking
                    > tools(well) and then using them(also well). And the other is for Norse
                    > lifestyle
                    > stuff. She researched pigments used for dying sails, made sieves of hair,
                    > and
                    > other such things.
                    >
                    When I got mine, right after I swore fealty, the Queen said, "I really
                    like your tent stakes."

                    So, yes, daily life objects can be appreciated too. Having the royal
                    pavilion stay up on a stormy night helps.

                    Ulfhedinn
                  • i_odlin@hotmail.com
                    ... Indeed. This is why I don t usually bother entering competitions. The last time I did, I received a judging slip that literally consisted of two words:
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 6, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- On Mon, 2/5/11, Jeffrey Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                      > This would apply to most areas - sexay objects get attention [...]

                      Indeed. This is why I don't usually bother entering competitions. The last time I did, I received a judging slip that literally consisted of two words: "Too plain."

                      Maybe there were people who enjoyed my simple, made entirely with hand tools chest. If so, they remained silent.

                      I haven't bothered entering a competition since.

                      -Iain
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