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Dado blades unscrewing the nut

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  • Broom
    Not medieval at all, but I bet there s expert advice on this list that can help me out. I am using my dado set on my table saw to clear out a 1-1/2 -wide dado
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 20, 2011
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      Not medieval at all, but I bet there's expert advice on this list that
      can help me out.

      I am using my dado set on my table saw to clear out a 1-1/2"-wide dado
      3/4" deep through 2x2" stock. Started with two bordering cuts, to
      prevent chip-outs. I've used this dado set once before, with no
      problems, but not for anything this wide.

      It requires two passes. I can stack them to 3/4", and they all fit on
      the solid portion of the arbor, and then I can tighten down the nut
      very tightly.

      The cuts go fine... until I turn the saw off. Then, there's a burst,
      and the nut starts working itself free as the blades slow to a stop
      (presumably, the drop in speed produces the CCW torque needed to start
      the nut, then loose-blade vibration keeps working on it). The nut gets
      pretty loose, and has come free once (YIKES!).

      I normally have a large (3" OD) washer on both sides of the blades,
      cupped in shape like a belleville washer, but way too thick to flex,
      so I don't think it's providing lock-washer functioning in that way. I
      can't use the outer one, at this thickness of dado, so it's just the
      one nut on the outside.

      Advice?

      ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
      ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
      ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
      ' | "Discere et docere", which means:
      ' | "go to work, send your kids to school / follow fashion, act
      '\|/ normal / walk on the pavements, watch T.V. / save for your old
      '/|\ age, obey the law / Repeat after me: I am free"
      //|\\ - graffiti in Bristol, UK
    • Bobby Bourgoin (Robert du Bourg)
      You SHOULD use both washers. A good place to start is the owners manual to see what max dado is recommended, if you don t have to owners manual; see how thick
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 20, 2011
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        You SHOULD use both washers…  A good place to start is the owners manual to see what max dado is recommended, if you don’t have to owners manual; see how thick you can dado with both washers; then go with that and do 3 or 4 passes if need be…

        I can dado 3/8th with my current table saw with both washers, and haven’t even tried with only one or no washer (wouldn’t dare try)

         

        I had to do two passes to cut a 5/8th dado for shelving…  Hope I can upgrade to the table saw I want…  Dados up to 13/16th

         

        Hope this helps

         

        Bobby

         


        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Broom
        Sent: 20 avril 2011 23:46
        To: medievalsawdust
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Dado blades unscrewing the nut

         

         

        Not medieval at all, but I bet there's expert advice on this list that
        can help me out.

        I am using my dado set on my table saw to clear out a 1-1/2"-wide dado
        3/4" deep through 2x2" stock. Started with two bordering cuts, to
        prevent chip-outs. I've used this dado set once before, with no
        problems, but not for anything this wide.

        It requires two passes. I can stack them to 3/4", and they all fit on
        the solid portion of the arbor, and then I can tighten down the nut
        very tightly.

        The cuts go fine... until I turn the saw off. Then, there's a burst,
        and the nut starts working itself free as the blades slow to a stop
        (presumably, the drop in speed produces the CCW torque needed to start
        the nut, then loose-blade vibration keeps working on it). The nut gets
        pretty loose, and has come free once (YIKES!).

        I normally have a large (3" OD) washer on both sides of the blades,
        cupped in shape like a belleville washer, but way too thick to flex,
        so I don't think it's providing lock-washer functioning in that way. I
        can't use the outer one, at this thickness of dado, so it's just the
        one nut on the outside.

        Advice?

        ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
        ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
        ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
        ' | "Discere et docere", which means:
        ' | "go to work, send your kids to school / follow fashion, act
        '\|/ normal / walk on the pavements, watch T.V. / save for your old
        '/|\ age, obey the law / Repeat after me: I am free"
        //|\\ - graffiti in Bristol , UK

      • Broom
        ... Thanks. Duh, never thought to look in the manual. The Makita dado set is only 1/2 wide; from now on I guess that s my limit. With that extra 1/4 , there s
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 21, 2011
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          Bobby wrote:
          > You SHOULD use both washers.  A good place to start is the owners manual to
          > see what max dado is recommended, if you don't have to owners manual; see
          > how thick you can dado with both washers; then go with that and do 3 or 4
          > passes if need be.

          Thanks. Duh, never thought to look in the manual. The Makita dado set
          is only 1/2" wide; from now on I guess that's my limit. With that
          extra 1/4", there's certainly room for both washers. They also specify
          a special "dado hex nut", but a google search suggests this is only a
          slightly oversized nut (not with a nylon insert or anything like
          that).

          I'll try it at 1/2" with washers on both sides.

          ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
          ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
          ' | 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
          '\|/ "Discere et docere", which means:
          '/|\ "Wow. Attribute anything to WC Fields and you gain instant
          //|\\ credibility." - Metafilter
        • Broom
          ... And... that worked just fine. 123456789-10 fingers. | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com | cellphone: 412-389-1997 |/ 9370 Shadduck
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 22, 2011
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            > Thanks. Duh, never thought to look in the manual. The Makita dado set
            > is only 1/2" wide; from now on I guess that's my limit.
            >
            > I'll try it at 1/2" with washers on both sides.

            And... that worked just fine.

            123456789-10 fingers.

            ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
            ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
            '\|/ 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
            '/|\ "Discere et docere", which means:
            //|\\ "Death steals everything except our stories." - Jim Harrison
          • Bobby Bourgoin (Robert du Bourg)
            Glad I could Help. Bobby _____ From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Broom Sent: 22 avril 2011 21:10 Cc:
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 23, 2011
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              Glad I could Help…

               

              Bobby

               


              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Broom
              Sent: 22 avril 2011 21:10
              Cc: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Dado blades unscrewing the nut

               

               

              > Thanks. Duh, never thought to look in the manual. The Makita dado set

              > is only 1/2" wide; from now on I guess that's my limit.
              >
              > I'll try it at 1/2" with washers on both sides.

              And... that worked just fine.

              123456789-10 fingers.

              ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
              ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
              '\|/ 9370 Shadduck Rd , McKean , PA 16426
              '/|\ "Discere et docere", which means:
              //|\\ "Death steals everything except our stories." - Jim Harrison

            • Jim Hart
              I could not help thinking of this.... http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5112YNEHVQL._SL500_AA300_.jpg Read the instructions next time.... lol On Sat, Apr
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 23, 2011
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                I could not help thinking of this....


                Read the instructions next time.... lol

                On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 8:04 AM, Bobby Bourgoin (Robert du Bourg) <bobby.bourgoin@...> wrote:
                 

                Glad I could Help…

                 

                Bobby

                 


                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Broom
                Sent: 22 avril 2011 21:10
                Cc: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Dado blades unscrewing the nut

                 

                 

                > Thanks. Duh, never thought to look in the manual. The Makita dado set
                > is only 1/2" wide; from now on I guess that's my limit.
                >
                > I'll try it at 1/2" with washers on both sides.

                And... that worked just fine.

                123456789-10 fingers.

                ' | Broom IAmBroom @ gmail . com
                ' | cellphone: 412-389-1997
                '\|/ 9370 Shadduck Rd, McKean, PA 16426
                '/|\ "Discere et docere", which means:
                //|\\ "Death steals everything except our stories." - Jim Harrison




                --
                Jim Hart
                  Conal OhAirt

                Aude Aliquid Digmun - dare something worthy
              • Sean Powell
                Hello, I feel guilty about posting this following the discussion about the laurels showing deference to fancy and unique over simple and commonplace but I am
                Message 7 of 16 , May 2, 2011
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                  Hello,

                  I feel guilty about posting this following the discussion about the
                  laurels showing deference to fancy and unique over simple and
                  commonplace but I am completing a set of 4 glastonbury camp chairs in
                  5/4 red-oak. It was my first experience working with lumber straight
                  from the mill rather then from a hardware store and WOW was it an eye
                  opener. After all the work to turn tree-pieces into planks I think it's
                  a shame to mask the beautiful wood grain. Then again someone once
                  described an SCA event as looking like the cast-offs from the
                  'unfinished furniture' store. My wife has expressed an interest in
                  painting heraldry on the backs but her project list is as long as mine
                  so they may be accomplished at quarter-past never. Likewise I had
                  delusions of carving the arms properly... but please see the list of
                  projects above.

                  So... Is there a (preferably period) way to finish red-oak, to make it
                  more weather and water resistant (camp furniture) that will not cause
                  the pieces to bond together (camp furniture) that will show the grain
                  (cause it's pretty), permit the delusions of eventual carving (maybe
                  tung oil?), permit painting over the finish (oil based paint?) and not
                  look like the piece was 80% done and then dashed together?

                  I think I've asked this question before (or a variant on it) but after
                  my hard-drive crash I lost a lot of saved notes. I recall a mixture of
                  bees-wax, mineral spirits and tung oil is supposed to create a
                  penetrating finish that evaporates and leaves a hard coating but have no
                  idea of the ratios or the technique to apply it.

                  Any and all advice is appreciated.

                  Sean
                • AlbionWood
                  Red oak has a coarse grain structure and open pores, so I advise against using any sort of pigment stain. You can dye it if you want a certain color or hue,
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 2, 2011
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                    Red oak has a coarse grain structure and open pores, so I advise against
                    using any sort of pigment stain. You can dye it if you want a certain
                    color or hue, but avoid the stains that accentuate the grain - it will
                    become far too pronounced and distract from the overall appearance.

                    If you think you might ever want to apply any other finish, such as
                    paint, do not use anything containing wax.

                    Things like lacquer, varnish, epoxy, or even shellac are a bit tricky to
                    use, so if you don't have much finishing experience, avoid those until
                    you do.

                    Oil-based finishes are by far the easiest to use - you just flood them
                    on, wait a little while, then wipe off the excess and let it cure for a
                    while. Linseed oil by itself is not a good choice because it takes a
                    long time to cure and doesn't offer much protection. The best choice
                    for relative beginners is a thinned oil-varnish formula, and my
                    recommendation is Waterlox Original formula. Wipe on, wipe off, cure
                    overnight, repeat. Two coats will build a decent finish without
                    creating a thick film.

                    Waterlox is basically a mixture of spar varnish, linseed oil, and
                    thinner. It will darken the wood quite a bit and add an amber hue,
                    which is not a problem with red oak. The grain will definitely show.

                    Cheers,
                    Tim

                    On 5/2/2011 5:38 PM, Sean Powell wrote:

                    > So... Is there a (preferably period) way to finish red-oak, to make it
                    > more weather and water resistant (camp furniture) that will not cause
                    > the pieces to bond together (camp furniture) that will show the grain
                    > (cause it's pretty), permit the delusions of eventual carving (maybe
                    > tung oil?), permit painting over the finish (oil based paint?) and not
                    > look like the piece was 80% done and then dashed together?
                  • Jeffrey Johnson
                    Red Oak?!?! UNCLEAN!!! HERESAY! Euro Oak is brown, which looks... brown. If n it were white oak, I d tell you to fume it and rub in multiple coats of
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 2, 2011
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                      Red Oak?!?! UNCLEAN!!! HERESAY!

                      Euro Oak is brown, which looks... brown. If'n it were white oak, I'd tell you to fume it and rub in multiple coats of "tried-n-tru" linseed & resin oil into it. But since you have the red oak, I'd go for an alcohol based (aniline) stain, followed by the linseed mix. Or, there's this: method: http://www.nrhillerdesign.com/press/pdfs/011193106.pdf .

                      Jeff



                      On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Sean Powell <powell.sean@...> wrote:
                      Hello,

                      I feel guilty about posting this following the discussion about the
                      laurels showing deference to fancy and unique over simple and
                      commonplace but I am completing a set of 4 glastonbury camp chairs in
                      5/4 red-oak. It was my first experience working with lumber straight
                      from the mill rather then from a hardware store and WOW was it an eye
                      opener. After all the work to turn tree-pieces into planks I think it's
                      a shame to mask the beautiful wood grain. Then again someone once
                      described an SCA event as looking like the cast-offs from the
                      'unfinished furniture' store. My wife has expressed an interest in
                      painting heraldry on the backs but her project list is as long as mine
                      so they may be accomplished at quarter-past never. Likewise I had
                      delusions of carving the arms properly... but please see the list of
                      projects above.

                      So... Is there a (preferably period) way to finish red-oak, to make it
                      more weather and water resistant (camp furniture) that will not cause
                      the pieces to bond together (camp furniture) that will show the grain
                      (cause it's pretty), permit the delusions of eventual carving (maybe
                      tung oil?), permit painting over the finish (oil based paint?) and not
                      look like the piece was 80% done and then dashed together?

                      I think I've asked this question before (or a variant on it) but after
                      my hard-drive crash I lost a lot of saved notes. I recall a mixture of
                      bees-wax, mineral spirits and tung oil is supposed to create a
                      penetrating finish that evaporates and leaves a hard coating but have no
                      idea of the ratios or the technique to apply it.

                      Any and all advice is appreciated.

                      Sean


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                    • powell.sean@comcast.net
                      Soapeater purist. :) If it were white oak I d be amonia fuming it as well but we needed enough rough-cut lumber for 14 chairs. Only 2 people were interested
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 3, 2011
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                        Soapeater purist. :)

                         

                        If it were white oak I'd be amonia fuming it as well but we needed enough rough-cut lumber for 14 chairs. Only 2 people were interested in a documentable wood and the rest were more concerned with looks, function, portability and durability... then we were also limited by what the lumber-mill had on hand that week. Hey it beats pine 2x12 star-gazers and plywood box thrones so it's a step in the proper direction for camp. Next ones will be white oak.

                         

                        Everyone keeps mentioning Linseed oil. I am more familiar with Tung oil. What's the functional difference between the two? Is it about the correct period coice or in how they dry (or don't dry)? inquiring minds want to know.

                         

                        Thanks,

                        Sean

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Jeffrey Johnson" <jljonsn@...>
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, May 2, 2011 10:41:12 PM
                        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Finishing red-oak



                        Red Oak?!?! UNCLEAN!!! HERESAY!

                        Euro Oak is brown, which looks... brown. If'n it were white oak, I'd tell you to fume it and rub in multiple coats of "tried-n-tru" linseed & resin oil into it. But since you have the red oak, I'd go for an alcohol based (aniline) stain, followed by the linseed mix. Or, there's this: method: http://www.nrhillerdesign.com/press/pdfs/011193106.pdf .

                        Jeff

                      • powell.sean@comcast.net
                        I should have gone to google first. Apparantly I m not as familiar with Tung oil as I thought I was. Either I ve always bought wiping varnish labeled as Tung
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 3, 2011
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                          I should have gone to google first. Apparantly I'm not as familiar with Tung oil as I thought I was. Either I've always bought wiping varnish labeled as Tung oil or I've been misapplying it. :/

                          http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-finishes-their-history-and-use

                          I want the non-building finish so piece that fit now don't suddenly become too tight after the finish and I want water proof or water resistant as these will almost definetly be covered in morning dew and try to suck moister from damp ground. Not certain if I want the labor of Tung oil though. Lots to consider.

                           

                          Thanks for the advice so far. Any other comments are definetly welcome.

                          Sean

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "powell sean" <powell.sean@...>
                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 8:12:42 AM
                          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Finishing red-oak



                          Soapeater purist. :)

                           

                          If it were white oak I'd be amonia fuming it as well but we needed enough rough-cut lumber for 14 chairs. Only 2 people were interested in a documentable wood and the rest were more concerned with looks, function, portability and durability... then we were also limited by what the lumber-mill had on hand that week. Hey it beats pine 2x12 star-gazers and plywood box thrones so it's a step in the proper direction for camp. Next ones will be white oak.

                           

                          Everyone keeps mentioning Linseed oil. I am more familiar with Tung oil. What's the functional difference between the two? Is it about the correct period coice or in how they dry (or don't dry)? inquiring minds want to know.

                           

                          Thanks,

                          Sean

                        • Vels inn Viggladi
                          ... oil. What s the functional difference between the two? Is it about the correct period coice or in how they dry (or don t dry)? inquiring minds want to
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 3, 2011
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                            >Everyone keeps mentioning Linseed oil. I am more familiar with Tung
                            oil. What's the functional difference between the two? Is it about the correct period coice or in how they dry (or don't dry)? inquiring minds want to know.
                            >

                            >Thanks,
                            >Sean

                            Usually the stuff you purchase from the Big Box stores that is labeled as "Tung Oil" is very carefully labeled "TUNG OIL finish".
                            It gives the look of Tung Oil while having the protective qualities of a varnish (usually poly). Tung oil originates in China. It's also next to impossible to get just Tung Oil from anywhere super-convenient in the US.
                            Boiled linseed oil is historically the more commonly used finishing oil in Europe (if a finishing oil is used). Northern Italian furniture makers seemed to have preferred to use Walnut Oil as a finishing oil, and it seems more often that was used as a "naked" finish. Mahoney's Fine Finishes makes a furniture grade Walnut Oil (not the dietary woo-woo stuff). I'd recommend going to the Mahoney's website to order. While Walnut oil is a little more expensive than linseed, getting it from Mahoney's will save you quite a few dollars when ordering a gallon jug.

                            Speaking of blogs of late: Marc Spagnuolo has a post about mixing your own oil/varnish blend. 
                            http://thewoodwhisperer.com/make-your-own-oil-varnish-blend/
                            And here he explains why you'd use just oil, oil and varnish or some other finish.
                            http://thewoodwhisperer.com/oil-based-finish-basics/ (video podcast ep)

                            For other historically appropriate varnishes things can get expensive or slightly messy. Historically appropriate varnish was made from granulated amber that was boiled in seed oil then cooled, reheated and applied (Ceninni). A number of artist supply companies do sell prepared amber varnish, but it is really expensive. Raw amber in sufficient quantity is expensive as all get out as well.
                            Glair varnish is also a possibility. This is made by mixing egg-whites with water, whipping it to a foam, then straining off the heavier liquid from the water once things have had time to settle. When the glair cures on the piece, it is waterproof and very hard. Da Vinci mentions a recipe for making fake amber by mixing glair with linseed oil, then boiling it in a bit of intestine. I'm thinking a shortcut to looking more like amber varnish would be to use oil and glair mixed, or in layers. I also have little doubt that would have been done  a time or two, if indeed it does look and act very much like amber varnish. I've been meaning to play with this a bit, but haven't yet had the opportunity.


                            Vels



                          • kelly O'Sullivan
                            Sean Boiled linseed oil is made from flax seed. They are both drying oils, but linseed will dry a little darker and when exposed to sunlight will blaken over
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 3, 2011
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                              Sean
                               
                              Boiled linseed oil is made from flax seed. They are both drying oils, but linseed will dry a little darker and when exposed to sunlight will blaken over time were as Tung Oil wont. The stuff you get the hardware store has addtives in it to help it dry faster it. If you look around you can find raw linseed oil without the additives, but if you use that you will have to double boil
                              it so the oil wont go rancid. Linseed is a period oil and if you want to protect it a beeswax coating will work.
                               
                              Kelly  


                              From: Vels inn Viggladi <velsthe1@...>
                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 12:13:07 PM
                              Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Finishing red-oak

                               

                              >Everyone keeps mentioning Linseed oil. I am more familiar with Tung oil. What's the functional difference between the two? Is it about the correct period coice or in how they dry (or don't dry)? inquiring minds want to know.
                              >

                              >Thanks,
                              >Sean

                              Usually the stuff you purchase from the Big Box stores that is labeled as "Tung Oil" is very carefully labeled "TUNG OIL finish".
                              It gives the look of Tung Oil while having the protective qualities of a varnish (usually poly). Tung oil originates in China. It's also next to impossible to get just Tung Oil from anywhere super-convenient in the US.
                              Boiled linseed oil is historically the more commonly used finishing oil in Europe (if a finishing oil is used). Northern Italian furniture makers seemed to have preferred to use Walnut Oil as a finishing oil, and it seems more often that was used as a "naked" finish. Mahoney's Fine Finishes makes a furniture grade Walnut Oil (not the dietary woo-woo stuff). I'd recommend going to the Mahoney's website to order. While Walnut oil is a little more expensive than linseed, getting it from Mahoney's will save you quite a few dollars when ordering a gallon jug.

                              Speaking of blogs of late: Marc Spagnuolo has a post about mixing your own oil/varnish blend. 
                              http://thewoodwhisperer.com/make-your-own-oil-varnish-blend/
                              And here he explains why you'd use just oil, oil and varnish or some other finish.
                              http://thewoodwhisperer.com/oil-based-finish-basics/ (video podcast ep)

                              For other historically appropriate varnishes things can get expensive or slightly messy. Historically appropriate varnish was made from granulated amber that was boiled in seed oil then cooled, reheated and applied (Ceninni). A number of artist supply companies do sell prepared amber varnish, but it is really expensive. Raw amber in sufficient quantity is expensive as all get out as well.
                              Glair varnish is also a possibility. This is made by mixing egg-whites with water, whipping it to a foam, then straining off the heavier liquid from the water once things have had time to settle. When the glair cures on the piece, it is waterproof and very hard. Da Vinci mentions a recipe for making fake amber by mixing glair with linseed oil, then boiling it in a bit of intestine. I'm thinking a shortcut to looking more like amber varnish would be to use oil and glair mixed, or in layers. I also have little doubt that would have been done  a time or two, if indeed it does look and act very much like amber varnish. I've been meaning to play with this a bit, but haven't yet had the opportunity.


                              Vels



                            • AlbionWood
                              Yes, as you found out, tung oil is largely a marketing term now, although it originally did refer to a specific type of curing oil. Wiping varnish is what
                              Message 14 of 16 , May 3, 2011
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                                Yes, as you found out, "tung oil" is largely a marketing term now,
                                although it originally did refer to a specific type of curing oil.

                                Wiping varnish is what you want, and Waterlox is IMO the best of the
                                readily-available formulas. Two applications won't build up a thick
                                enough film to interfere with the fit of joints in a Glastonbury; if
                                your tolerances are that tight you will have trouble with changes in
                                humidity every time you go to an event!

                                Waterlox includes spar varnish, which is soft and pliable and will make
                                the surface a little less slippery, so you will probably want to polish
                                the dowels with furniture wax where they slide through the holes. This
                                will interfere with any subsequent finishing, so be careful where you
                                use the wax.

                                Your objectives are incompatible. Waterproof finishes are film
                                finishes, and the thicker they are, the better the moisture protection.
                                Marketing hype notwithstanding, none of the penetrating finishes
                                really do a great job of blocking moisture. (Except possibly the
                                penetrating epoxy, like Smith & Co., but that is a giant pain to use
                                (and expensive). It would seal up those open red-oak pores, though.)
                                Everything is a compromise... For my money, Waterlox is usually the best
                                balance between ease of use (and maintenance), cost, protection, and
                                appearance.

                                Red oak is not the best choice for pieces like this, because it has very
                                open pores that allow moisture to move in and out of the wood very
                                easily. White oak would have been a better choice, because the pores
                                are closed, so it is easier to seal up and less prone to damage from
                                humidity changes. But you already have the chairs, so you just need to
                                finish them as well as you can and hope for the best. If you really
                                want maximum protection, look into the Smith & Co. penetrating epoxy.
                                You probably only need/want that on the legs; it's overkill for the
                                rest. Wiping varnish will provide sufficient protection against casual
                                moisture, but not against ground contact.

                                Take heart though, the oak will probably hold up pretty well for several
                                years even if it does get some moisture damage - it will just develop
                                "character" and become more authentic-looking!

                                Cheers,
                                Tim

                                On 5/3/2011 5:26 AM, powell.sean@... wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > I should have gone to google first. Apparantly I'm not as familiar with
                                > Tung oil as I thought I was. Either I've always bought wiping varnish
                                > labeled as Tung oil or I've been misapplying it. :/
                                >
                                > http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-finishes-their-history-and-use
                                >
                                > I want the non-building finish so piece that fit now don't suddenly
                                > become too tight after the finish and I want water proof or water
                                > resistant as these will almost definetly be covered in morning dew and
                                > try to suck moister from damp ground. Not certain if I want the labor of
                                > Tung oil though. Lots to consider.
                                >
                                > Thanks for the advice so far. Any other comments are definetly welcome.
                                >
                                > Sean
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "powell sean" <powell.sean@...>
                                > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2011 8:12:42 AM
                                > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Finishing red-oak
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Soapeater purist. :)
                                >
                                > If it were white oak I'd be amonia fuming it as well but we needed
                                > enough rough-cut lumber for 14 chairs. Only 2 people were interested in
                                > a documentable wood and the rest were more concerned with looks,
                                > function, portability and durability... then we were also limited by
                                > what the lumber-mill had on hand that week. Hey it beats pine 2x12
                                > star-gazers and plywood box thrones so it's a step in the proper
                                > direction for camp. Next ones will be white oak.
                                >
                                > Everyone keeps mentioning Linseed oil. I am more familiar with Tung oil.
                                > What's the functional difference between the two? Is it about the
                                > correct period coice or in how they dry (or don't dry)? inquiring minds
                                > want to know.
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                >
                                > Sean
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • D. Young
                                Is the objective to de-Red the oak.....or to just protect it? There is a difference. Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions Custom Commissions Welcome....!
                                Message 15 of 16 , May 4, 2011
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                                  Is the objective to de-Red the oak.....or to just protect it?

                                  There is a difference.



                                  Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                                       Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                                  www.partsandtechnical.com
                                  (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                                   





                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: jljonsn@...
                                  Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 22:41:12 -0400
                                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Finishing red-oak

                                   
                                  Red Oak?!?! UNCLEAN!!! HERESAY!

                                  Euro Oak is brown, which looks... brown. If'n it were white oak, I'd tell you to fume it and rub in multiple coats of "tried-n-tru" linseed & resin oil into it. But since you have the red oak, I'd go for an alcohol based (aniline) stain, followed by the linseed mix. Or, there's this: method: http://www.nrhillerdesign.com/press/pdfs/011193106.pdf .

                                  Jeff




                                  On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Sean Powell <powell.sean@...> wrote:
                                  Hello,

                                  I feel guilty about posting this following the discussion about the
                                  laurels showing deference to fancy and unique over simple and
                                  commonplace but I am completing a set of 4 glastonbury camp chairs in
                                  5/4 red-oak. It was my first experience working with lumber straight
                                  from the mill rather then from a hardware store and WOW was it an eye
                                  opener. After all the work to turn tree-pieces into planks I think it's
                                  a shame to mask the beautiful wood grain. Then again someone once
                                  described an SCA event as looking like the cast-offs from the
                                  'unfinished furniture' store. My wife has expressed an interest in
                                  painting heraldry on the backs but her project list is as long as mine
                                  so they may be accomplished at quarter-past never. Likewise I had
                                  delusions of carving the arms properly... but please see the list of
                                  projects above.

                                  So... Is there a (preferably period) way to finish red-oak, to make it
                                  more weather and water resistant (camp furniture) that will not cause
                                  the pieces to bond together (camp furniture) that will show the grain
                                  (cause it's pretty), permit the delusions of eventual carving (maybe
                                  tung oil?), permit painting over the finish (oil based paint?) and not
                                  look like the piece was 80% done and then dashed together?

                                  I think I've asked this question before (or a variant on it) but after
                                  my hard-drive crash I lost a lot of saved notes. I recall a mixture of
                                  bees-wax, mineral spirits and tung oil is supposed to create a
                                  penetrating finish that evaporates and leaves a hard coating but have no
                                  idea of the ratios or the technique to apply it.

                                  Any and all advice is appreciated.

                                  Sean


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                                • Vels inn Viggladi
                                  So, I got to doing some finishing on a couple new pieces today. I figured I d see how the walnut oil stacked up to linseed. For the test I happened to be
                                  Message 16 of 16 , May 4, 2011
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                                    So, I got to doing some finishing on a couple new pieces today. I figured I'd see how the walnut oil stacked up to linseed. For the test I happened to be working with some red oak, so I'll be commenting on comparisons based on previous experience with that and other "light" colored woods.

                                    Most obvious is the viscosity. Walnut oil is much thinner and lighter than boiled linseed oil. In color the walnut oil is also significantly lighter. I could not tell where the walnut oil had begun to penetrate before rubbing it in with a cloth. Those who've worked with linseed oil will recognize that during initial application linseed oil has a tendency to show a marked difference from where it is initially flooded on compared to other settling points after it has been spread around.

                                    Linseed oil tends to add a yellow hue to woods, which then moves into a darker amber with time. The walnut oil went on with just the slightest coloring of the wood, very gently bringing up the grain (as opposed to the *pop* that can occur with linseed).

                                    The wood soaked up the walnut oil rather quickly. This is probably a combination of the thinness of the oil and the open pore nature of the wood in question. Still, the surface of the wood was not oily to the touch within 2 hours. It will have to wait until tomorrow to see if there are any distinct differences once the oil begins to cure.

                                    For the next step, I'm going to do a side by side on two pieces of oak from the same board. After application and curing, I'm going to expose them to direct sunlight for a week to see if there is any difference to the colorization and surface texture.



                                    Vels
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