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Speaking of period

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  • james
    This may have come up for a subject of conservation before but has anyone seen datable information which places the spokeshave to before 1600? If so, could
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 7, 2011
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      This may have come up for a subject of conservation before but has anyone seen datable information which places the spokeshave to before 1600? If so, could you provide me with a reference to as to date and location?

      Note: Drawknives, I've got covered but not spokeshaves.


      Thanks, its a question from another list I'm on but I thought this list might have a better handle on it.

      Cedric
    • Brian Wagner
      Two spokeshaves were found on the Mary Rose (Gardiner and Allen 2005), which places them before 1545. I have not come across solid earlier evidence, but I
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 7, 2011
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        Two spokeshaves were found on the Mary Rose (Gardiner and Allen 2005), which places them before 1545.  I have not come across solid earlier evidence, but I would love to hear if others have as it seems feasible...

        Hrothgar / Brian


        On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:37 AM, james <jeason@...> wrote:
         

        This may have come up for a subject of conservation before but has anyone seen datable information which places the spokeshave to before 1600? If so, could you provide me with a reference to as to date and location?

        Note: Drawknives, I've got covered but not spokeshaves.

        Thanks, its a question from another list I'm on but I thought this list might have a better handle on it.

        Cedric


      • maf@gleichen.ca
        I built a Jarvis (a type of spoke shave) for a A&S competition years ago and her is the documentation on that. The Spoke Shave is listed as older than a Jarvis
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 7, 2011
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          I built a Jarvis (a type of spoke shave) for a A&S competition years ago and her is the documentation on that. The Spoke Shave is listed as older than a Jarvis and I found a reference to the Jarvis in a dictionary from 1510.
           

          Jarvis

           

          I first discovered the Jarvis in “Wooden Planes and How to Make Them”[1]. A Jarvis is a shave similar to a spokeshave (and is held like a spokeshave) but it uses an iron and a wedge like a plane.  The Jarvis is sometimes called a pole shave, a spoke plane or wrongly a wooden spoke shave. It was designed to consistently make the same size round poles; which explains its favor with implement makers and wheelwrights. The Jarvis is used by holding the two handles and pulling it towards the user along the item to be worked; this results in a thin shaving being removed and eventually results in a round cross section pole. The Jarvis’ concave sole sets the diameter of the finished pole, meaning that you would need a different Jarvis for each diameter pole or spoke you intend to make (unlike a true spokeshave). A craftsman would likely have had a Jarvis in a limited number of diameters, to suit his standard sized handles, or a wheelwright would have the 2-3 sizes of spokes he regularly used. A craftsman who needed to do a large variety of diameters would be more likely to have a spokeshave.

           

          In “Dictionary of Woodworking Tools”[2] the Jarvis is mentioned as one of the primary tools used during the 1700’s by wheelwrights to make spokes. Salaman also says most Jarvis’ have irons 2-2 ¼” wide. In “Ancient Carpenters’ Tools”[3] Mercer has a photo of a Jarvis from 1846 but also mentions that, “Moxon does not mention the ancient tool, but it is named in an old Salem inventory of 1644 in the Probate Records of Essex County Massachusetts, 1635-1681, 3 vols., George Francis Dow, editor, Salem, Mass., the Essex Institute, 1916-1920, and in the vast lore of quotations in the New English Dictionary, in references cited for 1510, 1572, 1688, 1794, 1837 and 1846.”  


          [1]  Algrove Publishing, Wooden Planes and How to make them by David G. Perch and Robert S. Lee, pages 96-100

          [2] Astragal Press, Dictionary of Woodworking Tools by R.A.Salaman

          [3]Dover , Ancient Carpenters Tools by Henry C. Mercer (reprint of a 1929 edition)

           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: james
          Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:37 AM
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Speaking of period

           

          This may have come up for a subject of conservation before but has anyone seen datable information which places the spokeshave to before 1600? If so, could you provide me with a reference to as to date and location?

          Note: Drawknives, I've got covered but not spokeshaves.

          Thanks, its a question from another list I'm on but I thought this list might have a better handle on it.

          Cedric

        • Ron
          I took the advise of someone on this list and ordered Wood Use in Medieval Novgorod ,and it arrived today. I remembered your query, and was pleased to find
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 14, 2011
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            I took the advise of someone on this list and ordered "Wood Use in Medieval Novgorod",and it arrived today. I remembered your query, and was pleased to find on page 25 an illustration for a reconstructed spokeshave, based on a blade found on site. They date it to the 11th century

            Bayard

            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "james" <jeason@...> wrote:
            >
            > This may have come up for a subject of conservation before but has anyone seen datable information which places the spokeshave to before 1600? If so, could you provide me with a reference to as to date and location?
            >
            > Note: Drawknives, I've got covered but not spokeshaves.
            >
            >
            > Thanks, its a question from another list I'm on but I thought this list might have a better handle on it.
            >
            > Cedric
            >
          • D. Young
            scan post, scan post, scan post, scan post...... I firmly believe you do not own the book at all ;) Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions Custom
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 14, 2011
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              scan post, scan post, scan post, scan post......

              I firmly believe you do not own the book at all  ;)



              Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                   Custom Commissions Welcome....!

              www.partsandtechnical.com
              (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
               





              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              From: williams@...
              Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 22:25:24 +0000
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Speaking of period

               
              I took the advise of someone on this list and ordered "Wood Use in Medieval Novgorod",and it arrived today. I remembered your query, and was pleased to find on page 25 an illustration for a reconstructed spokeshave, based on a blade found on site. They date it to the 11th century

              Bayard

              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "james" <jeason@...> wrote:
              >
              > This may have come up for a subject of conservation before but has anyone seen datable information which places the spokeshave to before 1600? If so, could you provide me with a reference to as to date and location?
              >
              > Note: Drawknives, I've got covered but not spokeshaves.
              >
              >
              > Thanks, its a question from another list I'm on but I thought this list might have a better handle on it.
              >
              > Cedric
              >


            • Jeffrey Johnson
              Scans posted on public website are likely copyright violation. I m surprised you don t have the book. It s right up there with chinnery and mary rose as a must
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 15, 2011
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                Scans posted on public website are likely copyright violation.

                I'm surprised you don't have the book. It's right up there with chinnery and mary rose as a must have for wood historians.

              • D. Young
                actually a few scans are fine.....most publishers would appreciate the free advertisement. Im always a fence sitter before buying. Fine Armour and Historical
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 15, 2011
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                  actually a few scans are fine.....most publishers would appreciate the free advertisement.

                  Im always a fence sitter before buying.  



                  Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

                       Custom Commissions Welcome....!

                  www.partsandtechnical.com
                  (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)
                   





                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  From: jljonsn@...
                  Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:49:07 -0500
                  Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Speaking of period

                   

                  Scans posted on public website are likely copyright violation.
                  I'm surprised you don't have the book. It's right up there with chinnery and mary rose as a must have for wood historians.

                • Duncan Sinclair
                  I would love to add Chinnery and Mary Rose to my library, yet I cannot find copies at this time. I did snatch up Novgorod while it was on sale.... Duncan
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 15, 2011
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                    I would love to add Chinnery and Mary Rose to my library, yet I cannot find copies at this time. I did snatch up Novgorod while it was on sale....
                     
                    Duncan Sinclair (MKA: Chris Anderson)
                    Shire of Qal 'at Ja'far
                    and
                    The Barony of Sternfeld
                    Middle Kingdom

                    Greenwood #514, F&AM

                  • Geirfold
                    Hope people won t mind me jumping in here for my first post - up to 1/3 of a puplication can be copied for educational purposes before violating the copyright
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 15, 2011
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                      Hope people won't mind me jumping in here for my first post - up to 1/3 of a puplication can be copied for educational purposes before violating the copyright law. However, that does not mean that they may be posted to a public website. More than (I believe) 3 paragraphs would constitute copyright infringement. I used to have to deal with copyright issues alot at a previous job.

                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "D. Young" <furnaceplans@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > actually a few scans are fine.....most publishers would appreciate the free advertisement.
                      >
                      > Im always a fence sitter before buying.
                      >
                      > > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: jljonsn@...
                      > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:49:07 -0500
                      > Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Speaking of period
                      >
                      > > >
                      >
                      > Scans posted on public website are likely copyright violation.
                      > I'm surprised you don't have the book. It's right up there with chinnery and mary rose as a must have for wood historians.
                      >
                    • Jeffrey Johnson
                      Thanks for the info, Geirfold. Useful. You can find Chinnery online, but generally not for under $100 or so. Likewise Novgorod is usually $90. (googling...)
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 15, 2011
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                        Thanks for the info, Geirfold. Useful.

                        You can find Chinnery online, but generally not for under $100 or so. Likewise Novgorod is usually $90. (googling...) Wow.. one copy of Mary Rose at Abebooks goes for $110.

                        On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Geirfold <hammered_shamrock@...> wrote:
                         

                        Hope people won't mind me jumping in here for my first post - up to 1/3 of a puplication can be copied for educational purposes before violating the copyright law. However, that does not mean that they may be posted to a public website. More than (I believe) 3 paragraphs would constitute copyright infringement. I used to have to deal with copyright issues alot at a previous job.



                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "D. Young" <furnaceplans@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > actually a few scans are fine.....most publishers would appreciate the free advertisement.
                        >
                        > Im always a fence sitter before buying.
                        >
                        > > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        > From: jljonsn@...

                        > Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:49:07 -0500
                        > Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Speaking of period
                        >
                        > > >
                        >
                        > Scans posted on public website are likely copyright violation.
                        > I'm surprised you don't have the book. It's right up there with chinnery and mary rose as a must have for wood historians.
                        >


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