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Re: Renaissance crossbow tiller decoration

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  • David
    Rhys, I just got a camera working and took some photos of the process. I m uploading them as a pdf to the files, Chip Carved Leaf Pattern . Tristan
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 6, 2011
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      Rhys, I just got a camera working and took some photos of the process. I'm uploading them as a pdf to the files, "Chip Carved Leaf Pattern".
      Tristan

      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "kiltie_celt" <matthew-campbell@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Tristan,
      >
      > Any way you can take a series of pics of what you're doing and post it somewhere that I can get a view of how you're going about it? I've got plenty of scrap walnut to experiment with so I'll try a variety of cutting implements and approaches, but if I could get a look at how someone else (with more experience) is approaching this, it could help speed things up for me.
      >
      > In service,
      > Rhys Cynydd (aka Matt Campbell)
      >
      > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dthelmers@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I just tried this pattern on a scrap of walnut. It's pretty easy. Lay out the grid, and cut in deeply with your knife or skew, straight down. Then use your skew to shave down from the outer/upper tip of the leaf into the V of the lower/inner tip, removing a chip. This gives the relief, and you don't have to remove a lot of material to get a good shadow. Then use your skew straight up to press/cut the detail into the edge of the leaves. I rocked it just a bit.
      > > It's basically chip carving, and it goes real fast. This is a fantastic pattern! I think I'll use it on a box or diptych.
      > > Tristan de Worrell
      > >
      > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I'd bet they were hand carved not stamped.
      > > >
      > > > Remember they didn't have quite the same "must save time where possible attitude
      > > > that is a
      > > > major factor in Modern man's life.
      > > >
      > > > I do not have specific research to back it up but I have been told ( and can see
      > > > the possible truth
      > > > in it ) that we need to think outside our box and try to look at the world of
      > > > the medieval craftsman
      > > > when we are trying to decide how and why things were made they way they were.
      > > > Labor was MUCH
      > > > cheaper to medieval man. Factor that into your analysis..... Hand carving each
      > > > leaf one at a time not so
      > > > much of a big deal....
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > that said.......
      > > >
      > > > A stamp MIGHT have been made to mark the stock consistently.... then hand carved
      > > > to bring the
      > > > details into higher relief.
      > > > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
      > > >
      > > > Aude Aliquid Dignum
      > > > ' Dare Something Worthy '
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ________________________________
      > > > From: kiltie_celt <matthew-campbell@>
      > > > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 6:52:01 PM
      > > > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Renaissance crossbow tiller decoration
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I'm in the process of constructing this bow:
      > > >
      > > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/MCampbell/HuntingxbowGerman1590-2.jpg
      > > >
      > > > It's a German hunting bow from 1590, on display at the Victoria and Albert
      > > > Museum in the UK. While I'm not trying to duplicate it exactly, I am hoping to
      > > > achieve something extremely close to the look of the original. Very shortly, I
      > > > will be at the point of adding the textural details to the tiller as well as the
      > > > ivory overlays. I ordered a digital high-resolution download of the original
      > > > images and found that the checkered pattern on the sides of the tiller is in
      > > > fact small leaves.
      > > >
      > > > http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/MCampbell/German1590bowdetailcrop.jpg
      > > >
      > > > Now, my question is, was each of these little leaves hand carved, or did the
      > > > maker create a metal stamp and simply stamp the leaf pattern on the sides of the
      > > > tiller. It's obviously a LOT of carving if that's the case and the engraved
      > > > details on the ivory were most certainly done by hand so it's not inconceivable
      > > > that the leaves on the tiller were all hand carved. Getting a truly up close and
      > > > in-person view would surely indicate whether the leaves show signs of compressed
      > > > wood fibers around the edges that would be the result of using a stamp. However,
      > > > not being able to look at the original this photo is the best I'm going to get,
      > > > so it's all speculation at this point. Any ideas, suggestions, thoughts? I'm not
      > > > even sure how easy it would be to make a stamp, but my first inclination along
      > > > those lines was to use my dremel to sculpt one from the end of a very large 60d
      > > > size nail.
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • leaking pen
      carved. Easy to do, you use a v edge to make the cross hatch pattern, then a few strokes on each diamond to make it a scale (looks more like scales to leaves
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 6, 2011
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        carved.  Easy to do, you use a v edge to make the cross hatch pattern, then a few strokes on each diamond to make it a scale (looks more like scales to leaves to me. )  Probably take me an hour. Maybe two if its a really hard wood.

        On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 4:52 PM, kiltie_celt <matthew-campbell@...> wrote:
         

        I'm in the process of constructing this bow:

        http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/MCampbell/HuntingxbowGerman1590-2.jpg

        It's a German hunting bow from 1590, on display at the Victoria and Albert Museum in the UK. While I'm not trying to duplicate it exactly, I am hoping to achieve something extremely close to the look of the original. Very shortly, I will be at the point of adding the textural details to the tiller as well as the ivory overlays. I ordered a digital high-resolution download of the original images and found that the checkered pattern on the sides of the tiller is in fact small leaves.

        http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/MCampbell/German1590bowdetailcrop.jpg

        Now, my question is, was each of these little leaves hand carved, or did the maker create a metal stamp and simply stamp the leaf pattern on the sides of the tiller. It's obviously a LOT of carving if that's the case and the engraved details on the ivory were most certainly done by hand so it's not inconceivable that the leaves on the tiller were all hand carved. Getting a truly up close and in-person view would surely indicate whether the leaves show signs of compressed wood fibers around the edges that would be the result of using a stamp. However, not being able to look at the original this photo is the best I'm going to get, so it's all speculation at this point. Any ideas, suggestions, thoughts? I'm not even sure how easy it would be to make a stamp, but my first inclination along those lines was to use my dremel to sculpt one from the end of a very large 60d size nail.


      • James Winkler
        “Now, my question is, was each of these little leaves hand carved, or did the maker create a metal stamp and simply stamp the leaf pattern on the sides of
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 6, 2011
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          “Now, my question is, was each of these little leaves hand carved, or did the maker create a metal stamp and simply stamp the leaf pattern on the sides of the tiller.”
           
          I looked at the picture very closely under photoshop...  there’s enough variation in the leaf detail to suggest, at least to me, that a stamp was NOT used.   But the ‘diamond’ shape of the diapering was very consistent.  
           
          What I *think* they did would go like this:
           
          Lay out the ‘diamond” diapering pattern with a pencil...   use a knife to score the pattern about 1/8 inch deep.  Using a chip carving knife...  taper each “diamond” from leaf tip to stem end.   Then... add leaf detail to each leaf.
           
          ... just a guess...
           
          Chas. Oakley
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