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Re: [MedievalSawdust] AT LAST.... 6 board chest (antique discovery..or confirmation)

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  • AlbionWood
    Drew, did the dealer give you any idea of the dimensions, especially thickness of those end-boards? What you re describing sounds like a floating tenon, which
    Message 1 of 101 , Dec 1, 2010
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      Drew, did the dealer give you any idea of the dimensions, especially
      thickness of those end-boards?

      What you're describing sounds like a floating tenon, which is a great
      joint and not that hard to cut, but tricky for edge-joinery. I've
      occasionally looked for evidence of one in various medieval furniture
      and buildings, but haven't found any before.

      Cheers,
      Tim

      On 12/1/2010 12:15 PM, D. Young wrote:

      >
      > "Drew what you are seeing is the remains of the dowels and some later
      > fillings.
    • Bill McNutt
      Odds are, Brendon is not talking to me. From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brendon Sent: Sunday,
      Message 101 of 101 , Dec 12, 2010
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        Odds are, Brendon is not talking to me.

         

        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brendon
        Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 1:19 AM
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] RE: Guild restrictions

         

         

        did you have a good flight back babe?

         

        On 2/12/2010, at 12:54 PM, D. Young wrote:



         

        Some examples of what I was referring to....


        Viking age ring hinge (which I suspect would be forge welded)
        http://www.asbrand.com/pics/projects/mastermyr_chest/mastermyr_chest_hinge_02.png
        http://codesmiths.com/shed/boxes/norse/strap_hinges.jpg

        By contrast 16th and 17th century gimlet or ring hinge:
        http://www.abbey-web.net/6536%20%284%29.jpg
        http://www.mmarkley.com/chests/1034-chest-hinge.jpg

        Butterfly hinges with screws:
        http://www.tewkesburyiron.co.uk/admin/images/Half_Butterfly_Hinge_2_11344.jpeg (replica but shows how screws were used, being somewhat counterintuitive to the modern mind as easily removable....but screw drivers and such tools were not necessarily readily available as they are today, minimizing theft)


        --Drew

         


         

        Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

             Custom Commissions Welcome....!

        www.partsandtechnical.com
        (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)

         




        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        From: furnaceplans@...
        Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:42:02 -0500
        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] RE: Guild restrictions

         

        "Surprisingly, many common woodworking techniques were not as ubiquitous as one might think throughout SCA time. There are often subtle differences that can help identify a specific time, region or culture for a piece."

        --I agree with this absolutely.

        My angle was that it can be tricky to weed out later repairs from period construction.   As a good example my 1640 chest has screws in the hinges.   Some antique dealers feel the use of screws indicates a repair or replacement of the rivets as screws were not widely used until the 18th century.   However I have found more than ample evidence in wooden pieces from the 1500s such as gun powder horns, and screws and bolts were used on armour since at least the 15th century, so clearly screwed technology (ahem) was around.

        Now the point here is that screw drivers were not as common, and so removing a screw was not quite as easy simple as it is now.   Ive seen screws over lock plates to that very end, suggesting that a technique we deem as commonplace or anachronistic may have been employed.   

        Another example is ring hinges.....these drive me crazy because we see them on well made joyed boxes with heavy carving....clearly an expensive chest.....yet using a very primitive type of hinge.   I have theorized the ring hinge may have something to do with green wood furniture not yet having "settled" into place....or possibly just a vogue in something retro....whats old is new is a reoccuring theme we do see at least in the Renaissance period (heck the very word means rebirth).    So while we see viking chests like the Mastermyr chest with ring hinges that seems to fit with that era, we also know standered barrel hinges were used as well.    And because of that duality I cannot, at least right now, see any clear pattern or reasoning for why some pieces used barrel hinges and why some used ring hinges or gimlets.  


        --Drew



         


         

        Fine Armour and Historical Reproductions

             Custom Commissions Welcome....!

        www.partsandtechnical.com
        (Well Formed Munitions Catalog Coming This Spring)

         




        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        From: ewdysar@...
        Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:03:47 +0000
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] RE: Guild restrictions

         

        I believe that the point that was trying to be made with guild restriction was not about who might or might not be doing the work. I think that guild restriction were being used as proof of accepted techniques. If the guild restricited a given technique's use, then it was obviously a common or accepted technique for that time period and location.

        Since this group is interested specifically when and where certain techniques were used, this can be good information. I'll throw out a topic that comes up now and again as an example.

        Is dovetail joinery correct for 10th century Britain? This question immediately falls to finding the earliest extant example of dovetail joinery from the area. I know that there are extant examples of sliding dovetails in Norse woodworking finds (various box lids), but I have yet to see an example of pin and tail dovetails in any Norse chest. Some 90 deg lap joints have an angled shoulder, but I don't really consider that to be dovetailed.

        Surprisingly, many common woodworking techniques were not as ubiquitous as one might think throughout SCA time. There are often subtle differences that can help identify a specific time, region or culture for a piece.

        Eirikr

        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "D. Young" <furnaceplans@...> wrote:
        >
        > Im not saying guild rule and restrictions were not held many times. To that extent I agree Will.
        >
        > What Im saying is that there is ample extant evidence that such rules were bent on occasion particularly outside of a major city, the long arm of the law and that of guilds was weaker.
        >
        > Or with respect to a client who wanted something that fell between say joyners and boarders.
        >
        > Now I approach this from an armouring point of view in which I can assuredly say that there is able reason to believe guild restrictions were not as hard and fast as we might think.
        >
        > If companies often get away with substandard things today....recalls constantly for safety and crappy products.....I believe this only proves my point.
        >
        > People have been trying to skirt the rules since the first guy got busted but the temptation remained. Human nature.
        >
        > If it happened in the armour world, which is arguably the highest craft of the middle ages due to its skill level and critical importance.....I have no doubt it happened with furniture on occassion
        >

         

         

         

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