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Re: [medievalsawdust] Sneakin' up on period (was: Viking ? Chair)

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  • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
    ... You would also have to consider where the item you are reproducing can from.... down to the village and the shop. The techniques for making two boxes
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 3, 2002
      >
      > I guess a good question would be... in the
      > woodworking world... what actually defines a piece
      > as being "appropriately" period? Construction
      > techniques, choice of materials, proportions, the
      > right nails or glue??? Does using hand saws make a
      > piece more period than using your Craftsman table
      > saw? Does the set (or lack thereof) of the tooth
      > on the handsaw have a bearing? Do we need to set
      > up a saw pit in the back yard... (NO AVERY... I
      > AIN'T DIGGIN' A PIT!!!!) so that we can cut the logs
      > with the appropriate grain???
      >
      > How period is "period" and what defines it?
      >
      > Just askin...
      > Chas.
      >
      You would also have to consider 'where' the
      item you are reproducing can from.... down
      to the village and the shop. The techniques
      for making two boxes could vary based on
      what the craftsman was taught.

      Consider this, would the cabinetmaker be the
      one splitting and smoothing his own planks
      or would he get them from someone whose entire
      business is making planks....or from an
      apprentice. ( No Charles )

      Would he make his own hinges, nails, clasps....
      He would probably get them from a blacksmith.

      Would a seamtress have to weave her own fabric?



      =====
      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
      Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '

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    • jrwinkler@msn.com
      ... one splitting and smoothing his own planks or would he get them from someone whose entire business is making planks....or from an apprentice. ( No Charles
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 3, 2002
        Conal wrote:

        >> Consider this, would the cabinetmaker be the
        one splitting and smoothing his own planks
        or would he get them from someone whose entire
        business is making planks....or from an
        apprentice. ( No Charles )

        Would he make his own hinges, nails, clasps....
        He would probably get them from a blacksmith.

        Would a seamtress have to weave her own fabric? <<
         
        Good points... but this raises yet another of them interestin' authenticity questions...  What aspect are we trying to authentic in?
         
        I would contend that if one is trying to BE an authentic medieval carpenter then all of the above issues would come into play...
         
        If you were simply trying to recreate a period piece and the THING you were making is intended to be as authentic as possible... then the cultural division of labor thing can kinda' goes out the window... and ya' gotta' do what ya' gotta' do...  (unless you can barter with a local sawyer and blacksmith.
         
        Its a process or product question... unless you're REALLY geeky and want to be authentic in process AND product!!!
         
        Then, of course there's simply understanding (the academic aspect) of having a solid grasp of the authentic KNOWLEDGE of what you're doing and electing to modify, ignore, change, etc. that in the actual practice of what you know.
         
        But... to either work at BEING the authentic craftsman and practicing your art in a period manner... or learning a bunch of diverse skills that a period craftsman wouldn't dream of or stand a chance of getting involved in order to produce a period THING... both require the underlying period KNOWLEDGE.    Without that aren't ya' simply makin' stuff up???
         
        Chas.
         
        Great discussion of the philosophic aspects of what we're doin' by the way...  ;-)


      • vinlandar
        I agree on the great discussion. I hope this will be a useful contribution. For my purposes, (described in an earlier post,) I am working at producing
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 3, 2002
          I agree on the great discussion. I hope this will be a useful
          contribution.
          For my purposes, (described in an earlier post,) I am working at
          producing household and farm items that my Norse farmer character
          might not necessarily have been able to make himself, so I don't mind
          not doing everything with period tools and glues, etc. As long as
          the non-period production and fastening techniques don't keep the
          piece from looking as period as I can make it, I feel I am alright.
          On the other hand, pottery is one of the techniques my character
          has learned from his Anglo Saxon neighbors, and so I am trying as
          close as I can to duplicate the methods, clays, glazes etc. that I
          can to pottery of that period and that location, allowing for imports
          from more distant locations which indeed were found in the area.
          Even that requires some compromise, though, because glazes of the
          period used lead to make them smooth and flowing. I am not willing
          to use lead in my cooking and eating items for the sake of period
          accuracy, so I seek out safer materials that give a similar effect.

          -Charlie


          --- In medievalsawdust@y..., jrwinkler@m... wrote:
          > Conal wrote:
          > Then, of course there's simply understanding (the academic aspect)
          of having a solid grasp of the authentic KNOWLEDGE of what you're
          doing and electing to modify, ignore, change, etc. that in the actual
          practice of what you know.
          >
          > But... to either work at BEING the authentic craftsman and
          practicing your art in a period manner... or learning a bunch of
          diverse skills that a period craftsman wouldn't dream of or stand a
          chance of getting involved in order to produce a period THING... both
          require the underlying period KNOWLEDGE. Without that aren't ya'
          simply makin' stuff up???
          >
          > Chas.
          >
          > Great discussion of the philosophic aspects of what we're doin' by
          the way... ;-)
        • jrwinkler@msn.com
          ... period used lead to make them smooth and flowing. I am not willing to use lead in my cooking and eating items for the sake of period accuracy, so I seek
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 3, 2002
            >>  Even that requires some compromise, though, because glazes of the
            period used lead to make them smooth and flowing.  I am not willing
            to use lead in my cooking and eating items for the sake of period
            accuracy, so I seek out safer materials that give a similar effect.  -Charlie  <<

            Yer' a wise fella' Charlie!!  ;-)   Every passion must have its meets and bounds...   from a functional point of view this makes good and sane sense...  on the other hand, using proper safety precautions there is nothing from stopping you from perhaps making a few demonstration pieces with the period lead based glaze to gain an the first hand knowledge of what differences (if any) might exist in the quality of finish, workability, etc. between the period version of the glaze and its modern analog.   This is the KNOWLEDGE part...  that I talked about in an earlier post...    
             
            Your examples illustrate what I was trying to say very well...  one standard of authenticity in one context... a different one for the other.   Different approaches for different goals yet both based in an inherent understanding of what IS correct and then making conscious decisions of where and how to deviate from that standard.
             
            Chas.
             
             
          • Dan Baker
            Master Charles, did you change your email? ... -- YIS, Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer Privateer to the Midrealm Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw ...Take time
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 4, 2002
              Master Charles, did you change your email?


              >From: jrwinkler@...


              --
              YIS,

              Lord Rhys, Capten gen y Arian Lloer
              Privateer to the Midrealm

              Arafu at dawnsio mewn adlaw
              ...Take time to dance in the rain...

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