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Re: [MedievalSawdust] On the note of 'quick'

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  • Siegfried
    ... No learning needed. I can do dovetails. Just wanting something here that s quick/fast, as there are 80 other projects I m backlogged on where I d
    Message 1 of 24 , Nov 12, 2010
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      > Or learn the dovetailing. The period examples I've seen are quite
      > large--only about three per side. The fewer you have, the less fiddling
      > needed to get the whole side to fit.

      No 'learning' needed. I can do dovetails. Just wanting something here
      that's quick/fast, as there are 80 other projects I'm backlogged on
      where I'd rather spend time to make 'pretty' :)

      > Or nail the box, and then reinforce with corner irons and straps when the
      > wood splits (as it will!). This is actually the period way, for the first
      > half of the Middle Ages.

      *nod* ... Not a bad idea ... only drawback there is cost of that.

      Thanks to everyone for your suggestions! That's what I love about this
      group. Each of us can come up with our own ideas, but get a dozen
      different takes on it to feed in.

      Siegfried

      --
      Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
      http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
    • Vels inn Viggladi
      ... Not off the shelf, but if you mix in a little powdered skim milk, the casein cures into a very water-resistant glue. Though that also means repairs to the
      Message 2 of 24 , Nov 12, 2010
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        > Vels--have they done something to hide glue to make it waterproof? The
        > trad version has this way of coming apart when it gets wet, and he's
        > talking about tourney boxes...
        >
        > Ulfhedinn

        Not off the shelf, but if you mix in a little powdered skim milk, the casein cures into a very water-resistant glue. Though that also means repairs to the joints becomes a little more difficult. Earliest recorded recipe for adding skim milk to hide glue to make it water-proof is from 1596.

        Even without additives, a little rain isn't going to make the glue fall apart, and it'll re-cure when it dries (granted, not as strong). Flooding, good odds. But, he's also talking about a second method of bonding the joints (nails or dowels).
        And if these do get wet enough to re-hydrate the glue, squeezing in a little more is actually going to improve the joint in the long run.



        Vels


      • Megan Shogren
        My husband has a DeWalt quick-change set he loves.  It got left at a family member s 3 hours away one time when we neeeded it, so we picked up a cheapie set
        Message 3 of 24 , Nov 12, 2010
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          My husband has a DeWalt quick-change set he loves.  It got left at a family member's 3 hours away one time when we neeeded it, so we picked up a cheapie set at Northern Tool.  Those bits were hideous- dull after maybe two holes in a 2x6, and the Phillips driver bits just disintegrated.  I may fuss a bit about the price of the DeWalt stuff, but I fuss less since I've experienced the difference in quality...
           
          -Kat Ferneley
          Caer Mear, Atlantia


          From: Siegfried <siegfried@...>
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: leaking pen <itsatrap@...>
          Sent: Fri, November 12, 2010 2:16:24 PM
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] On the note of 'quick'

          Does anyone have a suggestion on one of these that actually works well?

          Every one I've tried fails me, because either:

          1) The just 'hex+magnet' ones, like we all use for screw driving, end up
          staying in the wood when used for drilling.

          2) Others I've seen/used were all cheap Ryobi/B&D/etc things, that just
          weren't of the quality/tightness I'd want, leaving sloppy results, and
          bits that dull instantly.

          Siegfried

        • conradh@efn.org
          ... That s why I like to set up two or more cheapo drills. It s very quick, and unlike the combination drill/countersink/etc. bits, each single function bit
          Message 4 of 24 , Nov 12, 2010
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            On Fri, November 12, 2010 11:16 am, Siegfried wrote:
            > Does anyone have a suggestion on one of these that actually works well?
            >
            >
            > Every one I've tried fails me, because either:
            >
            >
            > 1) The just 'hex+magnet' ones, like we all use for screw driving, end up
            > staying in the wood when used for drilling.
            >
            > 2) Others I've seen/used were all cheap Ryobi/B&D/etc things, that just
            > weren't of the quality/tightness I'd want, leaving sloppy results, and bits
            > that dull instantly.

            That's why I like to set up two or more cheapo drills. It's very quick,
            and unlike the combination drill/countersink/etc. bits, each single
            function bit is easy to sharpen. And it's very fast, except for the
            occasional stop to unbraid the cords, but that's minor. :-)

            Ulfhedinn
          • Siegfried
            ... So Sean, somewhat off topic ... but I recently made a birdhouse with my 5yr old son (He was DYING to make one). And we threw it together in an hour using
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 6, 2011
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              On 11/12/10 1:52 PM, powell.sean@... wrote:
              > My general purpose 6-board boxes are glued with elmers wood glue and
              > nailed with finish nails that are counter sunk. A few drops of water on
              > the nail holes and the wood swells to cover the marks unless you use a
              > magnifying glass. The nails make assembly rather quick and I rarely need
              > clamps.

              So Sean, somewhat off topic ... but I recently made a birdhouse with my
              5yr old son (He was DYING to make one). And we threw it together in an
              hour using various 1x pine cutoffs I had in the shop, and just doing
              basic glue & finish nails, to just bang it out.

              I remembered back to when you gave this suggestion, and so on a whim
              attempted it (not that I really cared about how the birdhouse looked)
              ... and I dropped water into/on two of the finish nail holes.

              Honestly, you can't see any difference at all between those two holes,
              and the rest that I didn't treat.

              So I'm curious: How are you getting this to work? I mean, finish nails
              still leave pretty darn big holes. I could maybe see this with a brad
              nailer (Though heck, brad nail heads aren't that much smaller than a
              finish nailer), or definitely with pin nails.

              Siegfried

              --
              Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
              http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
            • Jeffrey Johnson
              Steam iron? I ve had some success compressing and steam expanding wood into joints. On Jan 6, 2011 3:42 PM, Siegfried wrote:
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 6, 2011
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                Steam iron?

                I've had some success compressing and steam expanding wood into joints.

                On Jan 6, 2011 3:42 PM, "Siegfried" <siegfried@...> wrote:
              • Sean Powell
                Nope. I didn t use a steam iron. Actually I didn t use water either. I used 2 layers of a light stain. The first wasn t dark enough so I tried the second. The
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 6, 2011
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                  Nope. I didn't use a steam iron. Actually I didn't use water either. I used 2 layers of a light stain. The first wasn't dark enough so I tried the second. The second didn't make it much darker (I have since learned a lot more about applying stains including on how to apply stain to dark wood, let moisten and then rub vigorously can actually lighten the color.) Anyway after 2 layers of stain swelling the pores the holes closed up and the holes were hidden enough that I had to be careful not to hit the nails when mounting hinges and hasps.

                  I grabbed some 1x scrap and dropping in a few finish nails. I left 2 flush, 2 sunk about 3/16-1/4" and 2 I sunk and then soaked to speed up the process. The closed up decently but yes are still noticeable. I'm going to let dry and re-wet again tomorrow to see what I get.

                  I don't know if the wood I started with was wet and flowed around the nail better, dry and sponged up the water better, if we used different brands of finish nails or maybe one of us used spruce and the other yellow pine (although the box I have in deck-ceder gave me a similar response). If I can get good results I'll post pics and see if we can come up with a good way to do it.

                  Or you know, mix a little glue and sawdust and plug the holes.

                  Sean

                  On 1/6/2011 7:07 PM, Jeffrey Johnson wrote:

                  Steam iron?

                  I've had some success compressing and steam expanding wood into joints.

                  On Jan 6, 2011 3:42 PM, "Siegfried" <siegfried@...> wrote:
                • Siegfried
                  ... Hey now, no changing your story Sean ;) You d said: A few drops of water ... So that s what I was trying, because it seemed like too good of a trick to
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 6, 2011
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                    On 1/6/11 7:56 PM, Sean Powell wrote:
                    > Nope. I didn't use a steam iron. Actually I didn't use water either. I
                    > used 2 layers of a light stain.

                    Hey now, no changing your story Sean ;) You'd said: "A few drops of water"

                    :-P

                    So that's what I was trying, because it seemed like too good of a trick
                    to be true. (Turns out, it was *grin*)

                    > I don't know if the wood I started with was wet and flowed around the
                    > nail better

                    Well I know on my nail holes, that they are significant in size.
                    Rectangle shaped, and probably 2.5mm wide and 5mm across. And are
                    definitely 'missing' the wood that used to be there. So the nail didn't
                    'shear in'. It punched the wood that was there deep down somewhere.

                    > if we used different
                    > brands of finish nails

                    Senco (red box) 1.5" x 15g Angled finish nails (Galvanized)

                    > or maybe one of us used spruce and the other
                    > yellow pine (although the box I have in deck-ceder gave me a similar
                    > response).

                    No 'red tinge' of fir and definitely not yellow pine. But the generic
                    'whitewood' of the Home Depot. So who knows exactly. ;)

                    > If I can get good results I'll post pics and see if we can
                    > come up with a good way to do it.

                    Cool.

                    > Or you know, mix a little glue and sawdust and plug the holes.

                    Well yeah ... or just use wood filler :) In this case I don't care,
                    for birdhouse sake, the holes are fine and give it the 'craft' look.
                    Heck, the whole thing has been 'painted' with Crayon at this point ;)

                    But I was just curious to test your trick, because if it worked to the
                    90% mark ... it would be a neat trick for 'quick construction' indeed.

                    Siegfried


                    --
                    Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
                    http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
                  • Vels inn Viggladi
                    ... One of the few places the Depot gets it right is with Whitewood . It actually is one of the thirty-five species of Spruce. The only certainties are that
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 7, 2011
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                      > No 'red tinge' of fir and definitely not yellow pine. But the generic
                      > 'whitewood' of the Home Depot. So who knows exactly. ;)
                      >
                      >
                      > Siegfried

                      One of the few places the Depot gets it right is with "Whitewood". It actually is one of the thirty-five species of Spruce.
                      The only certainties are that it isn't one of the five rare or endangered varieties of Spruce, Black Spruce (grows too small for lumber purposes), Red Spruce (typically reserved for high-end acoustic guitars), or "Mast and Spar Grade" Sitka.

                      Otherwise, it is specifically as advertised. By definition, whitewood is only from a species of spruce.




                      Vels
                    • Siegfried
                      Heh, I didn t know that Vels. Thank you very much for the information! Siegfried ... -- Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 7, 2011
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                        Heh, I didn't know that Vels. Thank you very much for the information!

                        Siegfried

                        On 1/7/11 10:53 AM, Vels inn Viggladi wrote:
                        > Otherwise, it is specifically as advertised. By definition, whitewood is
                        > only from a species of spruce.
                        >
                        > Vels
                        >


                        --
                        Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
                        http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
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