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RE: [MedievalSawdust] Hello Folks.

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  • D. Young
    My point is that if we dont push the envelope....than what exactly is medievalish? I mean, we could settle for styrofoam chests painted brown and call it a
    Message 1 of 30 , Nov 10, 2010
      My point is that if we dont push the envelope....than what exactly is medievalish?

      I mean, we could settle for styrofoam chests painted brown and call it a day. 

      In other words, as authenticity is pushed, we then realize what medieval really means....and thus medievalish is pushed along with it.

      All this reminds me of the scadian clothing about 20 years ago.   The bar kept being lifted which helps reconcile the concept of a medieval event.



      So Im saying the bar should be lifted .....each time it is, those things which still  fall short are ~still~ better than brown painted styrofoam chests.







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      > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      > From: siegfried@...
      > Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 12:37:44 -0500
      > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Hello Folks.
      >
      > On 11/10/10 11:13 AM, D. Young wrote:
      > > And correct me if Im mistaken....but isnt the point of this group to
      > > push the envelope in terms of authenticity?
      >
      > I would disagree with that.
      >
      > From the groups own homepage:
      > "
      > A group for the discussion of Medieval woodworking techniques and for
      > display of pictures, drawings, articles and photos of ideas or resources.
      >
      > Items that aren't strictly medieval but fit into the re-creationist
      > context are also welcome.
      > "
      >
      > To me, this means that this group is open to anyone of any
      > 'medieval-ish' background, and to discuss anything woodworking that
      > happens to relate to re-creationism.
      >
      > Whether that's masterwork pieces performed completely with handtools.
      > Or discussions on quick/efficient ways to churn out camp-chairs or
      > camp-boxes with plywood, slots, and screws.
      >
      > Each end of the discussion, has it's place.
      >
      > Siegfried - Who does both sides of the spectrum
      >
      >
      > --
      > Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
      > http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
      >
      >
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    • conradh@efn.org
      ...
      Message 2 of 30 , Nov 11, 2010
        > On 11/10/10 11:13 AM, D. Young wrote:
        >
        >> And correct me if Im mistaken....but isnt the point of this group to
        >> push the envelope in terms of authenticity?

        > On Wed, November 10, 2010 9:37 am, Siegfried wrote:
        > I would disagree with that.
        >
        <statement of group's purpose snipped>
        >
        > To me, this means that this group is open to anyone of any
        > 'medieval-ish' background, and to discuss anything woodworking that
        > happens to relate to re-creationism.
        >
        > Whether that's masterwork pieces performed completely with handtools.
        > Or discussions on quick/efficient ways to churn out camp-chairs or
        > camp-boxes with plywood, slots, and screws.
        >
        > Each end of the discussion, has it's place.
        >
        Actually I think you're both right. The group is broad enough to cover
        all sorts of woodworking, and ought to be. Which means that tips and
        techniques can cover the whole spectrum and be of interest to a fair
        percentage of readers either way.

        _Personally_, my own SCA interests are turning more and more toward
        authentic methods of work and camping. This is not for appearance's sake,
        as it seems to be for so many of the 'Nazis' who give authenticity a bad
        name. In my case, it's a personal drive to better understand what it was
        really like to live and work back then. Power tools and propane anything
        contribute very little to this, so I'm gradually raising my standards as I
        learn new things.

        I am _not_ here to sneer at someone who, say, uses power tools to make a
        six-board chest. (And if someone comes up with a way to do chip carving
        on a table saw, I would be fascinated to read about it!) But from my
        seemingly rare point of view, I'm not interested in hiding a cooler with
        either handmade or machine-made boxes. What I've done is learn how to eat
        well for a weekend, or a week, without refrigeration. It's not difficult
        at all, if you enjoy camp cookery, and unlike the cooler-hiding, gives one
        more small insight into the constraints (and sometimes advantages!) of our
        ancestors' lives.


        In passing, though I use lump charcoal in my attempts at demonstrating
        period blacksmithing in my booth, the use of coal can be documented at
        least as far back as 1377. The severe deforestation of Europe that
        culminated in that century (France had a million hectares less forest than
        it has _today_, frex) put terrible pressures on the price of charcoal.

        Of course, the source for 1377 suggests that the use of coal may have been
        a desperate experiment by someone who had not yet learned the tricks. A
        London smith was brought to court by angry neighbors complaining about the
        smoke. I can relate to this, as my own first attempts at a coal forge
        were untutored except by a book that turned out to be not the best. I
        filled our entire street with choking smoke. You literally could not see
        the house across from ours. Then I heard the sirens. Whoever called the
        fire department was being quite reasonable--an actual housefire we had
        once down the street made less smoke!

        By 1500 the use of coal as forge fuel was routine in many areas where it
        was available, such as much of England and Scotland.

        Ulfhedinn
      • Siegfried
        ... Well said. In my case, I go back and forth depending on what I m making. Sometimes I m making a medieval replica crossbow, and so it s lots of hand work
        Message 3 of 30 , Nov 11, 2010
          > Actually I think you're both right. The group is broad enough to cover
          > all sorts of woodworking, and ought to be.

          Well said. In my case, I go back and forth depending on what I'm making.

          Sometimes I'm making a medieval replica crossbow, and so it's lots of
          hand work (after rough power work) to get it exactly how I want it to look.

          Sometimes I'm making a munition combat crossbow. Where the idea is to
          create something that is period in appearance, but quickly churned out
          for efficiency/cost.

          Right now, a big focus that I have is an attempt for myself, and others,
          to generate lots of quick/inexpensive camp-equipment that can replace
          plastic tables, rubbermaid totes, and coleman chairs.

          Once those are created/replaced in as quick of a timeframe as possible.
          Focus will shift back to making 'awesome truly period works of art'
          versions of same :)

          It's a spectrum I swing back-n-forth on, depending upon the task at
          hand. And I like doing that myself :)

          But I have great respect for the hand-made works of art :)

          Siegfried



          --
          Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
          http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
        • conradh@efn.org
          ... To say nothing of the much greater strength of handmade dowels, at least if you rive them instead of ripsawing. I was breaking up some old machined dowels
          Message 4 of 30 , Nov 11, 2010
            On Wed, November 10, 2010 8:13 am, D. Young wrote:
            >


            > And there is a natural fear of using hand tools because people think they
            > are too hard to master. This is not true. After a few hours with a
            > drawknife or hand plane, one gets the idea pretty quickly. Same is true
            > with chisels.
            >
            > And then there are things like machined dowels----worst idea ever!
            > Machine dowels are too perfect, which often results in a looser fit.
            > Hand made dowels take a few minutes to make but produce a tighter fit
            > because they are not as round.
            >
            To say nothing of the much greater strength of handmade dowels, at least
            if you rive them instead of ripsawing. I was breaking up some old
            machined dowels just the other day (for firewood) and was appalled at the
            way they broke. Some of the grain was running 30-40 degrees off the axis
            of the dowel! The shear strength you expect, and need, in a doweled joint
            just isn't going to be there.

            There is a tendency to think that anything modern has to be better, and
            certainly faster, than the old stuff. We need to get beyond the
            self-congratulatory bullshit and realize that occasionally the old ways
            were _faster_ than modern. And materials prepared in the old way were
            routinely better quality. And especially that a hand-tool shop can often
            be set up for less money, simply because it's easier to scrounge or make
            the tools.

            Ulfhedinn
          • jay sabath
            Bill, Thanks for the link. please check out http://www.marhamchurchantiques.com/ They usually have several photos from each item as well as a good description.
            Message 5 of 30 , Nov 12, 2010
              Bill,

              Thanks for the link. 

              please check out
              http://www.marhamchurchantiques.com/
              They usually have several photos from each item as well as a good description.


              Lord Johannes Machiavelli
              Canton of Rokkehealden
              Barony of Ayreton
              Kingdom of the Middle

              On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Bill McNutt <mcnutt@...> wrote:
               

              My favorite online antiques site is Huntington Antiques, in the south of England.

              http://www.huntington-antiques.com/products.php?type=1

               

               




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