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Introduction

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  • Scot
    Hello to the group, My name is Scot Eddy (Jovian Skleros in the SCA) from Austin, Texas. Very interested in medieval bloodletting practices via saw, drills,
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 10, 2010
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      Hello to the group,

      My name is Scot Eddy (Jovian Skleros in the SCA) from Austin, Texas. Very interested in medieval bloodletting practices via saw, drills, routers, etc. as well as medieval furniture. I've made several 6 panel chests and I am in the process of building a bench and drawing up the plans for a flip-back settle/bench.

      I am looking forward to learning more from all of you.

      Grace and Peace,

      Scot Eddy
    • Zach Most
      His chests are quite nice. I lugged my instruments and music around in one over the weekend. Gaston ________________________________ From: Scot
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 11, 2010
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        His chests are quite nice.  I lugged my instruments and music around in one over the weekend.
          Gaston


        From: Scot <mister_eddy2003@...>
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 10:37:49 PM
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Introduction

         

        Hello to the group,

        My name is Scot Eddy (Jovian Skleros in the SCA) from Austin, Texas. Very interested in medieval bloodletting practices via saw, drills, routers, etc. as well as medieval furniture. I've made several 6 panel chests and I am in the process of building a bench and drawing up the plans for a flip-back settle/bench.

        I am looking forward to learning more from all of you.

        Grace and Peace,

        Scot Eddy


      • Jim Looper
        I ve made that flip-back bench. I tested if a few times before I got the flipping backrest on there and everything was fine. Once I put the backrest on it was
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 11, 2010
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          I've made that flip-back bench. I tested if a few times before I got the flipping backrest on there and everything was fine. Once I put the backrest on it was perfect...

           

          for a 10 year old.

           

          Lucien

          Who now has an 18 inch wide piece of white oak for the next one...

          I do not count as a credible source.

           


          From: Scot <mister_eddy2003@...>
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 10:37:49 PM
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Introduction

           

          Hello to the group,

          My name is Scot Eddy (Jovian Skleros in the SCA) from Austin, Texas. Very interested in medieval bloodletting practices via saw, drills, routers, etc. as well as medieval furniture. I've made several 6 panel chests and I am in the process of building a bench and drawing up the plans for a flip-back settle/bench.

          I am looking forward to learning more from all of you.

          Grace and Peace,

          Scot Eddy


        • erik_mage
          All my best work has blood in it! I can t say it was intentional. I ve slowed down a bit when I hit my thumb with a 10,000 rmp chainsaw blade. Funny thing is
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 11, 2010
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            All my best work has blood in it! I can't say it was intentional. I've slowed down a bit when I hit my thumb with a 10,000 rmp chainsaw blade. Funny thing is it grew back! Must be part lizard or something.

            I still love my carousel horses .
            ERIK

            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Scot" <mister_eddy2003@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello to the group,
            >
            > My name is Scot Eddy (Jovian Skleros in the SCA) from Austin, Texas. Very interested in medieval bloodletting practices via saw, drills, routers, etc. as well as medieval furniture. I've made several 6 panel chests and I am in the process of building a bench and drawing up the plans for a flip-back settle/bench.
            >
            > I am looking forward to learning more from all of you.
            >
            > Grace and Peace,
            >
            > Scot Eddy
            >
          • W. Roberts
            I firmly believe that no project is ever completed until I bleed on it, and others share in my belief. If I don t bleed on it, it will take it from another
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 11, 2010
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              I firmly believe that no project is ever "completed" until I bleed on it, and others share in my belief. If "I" don't bleed on it, it will take it from another source - usually, the person for whom I made it.

              It's kind of unnerving, because "intentional" bleeding doesn't count. No such thing as a pin-prick, to appease the gods of the wood - it has to be a real, honest-to-gosh "bite"!

              Or maybe I'm just superstitious.

              Wolf
              AKA Lee

              --- dragonwyck@... wrote:

              From: "erik_mage" <dragonwyck@...>
              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Introduction
              Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 22:18:11 -0000

              All my best work has blood in it! I can't say it was intentional. I've slowed down a bit when I hit my thumb with a 10,000 rmp chainsaw blade. Funny thing is it grew back! Must be part lizard or something.

              I still love my carousel horses .
              ERIK

              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Scot" <mister_eddy2003@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello to the group,
              >
              > My name is Scot Eddy (Jovian Skleros in the SCA) from Austin, Texas. Very interested in medieval bloodletting practices via saw, drills, routers, etc. as well as medieval furniture. I've made several 6 panel chests and I am in the process of building a bench and drawing up the plans for a flip-back settle/bench.
              >
              > I am looking forward to learning more from all of you.
              >
              > Grace and Peace,
              >
              > Scot Eddy
              >
            • conradh@efn.org
              ... I have several projects that remained bloodless. My twin bellows, most recently. Of course, I m a blacksmith more than a woodworker, and I _did_ burn
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 12, 2010
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                On Mon, October 11, 2010 3:36 pm, W. Roberts wrote:
                > I firmly believe that no project is ever "completed" until I bleed on it,
                > and others share in my belief. If "I" don't bleed on it, it will take it
                > from another source - usually, the person for whom I made it.
                >
                > It's kind of unnerving, because "intentional" bleeding doesn't count. No
                > such thing as a pin-prick, to appease the gods of the wood - it has to be
                > a real, honest-to-gosh "bite"!

                I have several projects that remained bloodless. My twin bellows, most
                recently. Of course, I'm a blacksmith more than a woodworker, and I _did_
                burn myself the second time I used the bellows; so perhaps that covers it.

                Ulfhedinn
              • erik_mage
                Funny you mention the bellows. I was thinking of making one for North Region War Camp. How large is yours? do you have a sketch? ERIK
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 13, 2010
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                  Funny you mention the bellows. I was thinking of making one for North Region War Camp. How large is yours? do you have a sketch?
                  ERIK

                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, conradh@... wrote:
                  >
                  > On Mon, October 11, 2010 3:36 pm, W. Roberts wrote:
                  > > I firmly believe that no project is ever "completed" until I bleed on it,
                  > > and others share in my belief. If "I" don't bleed on it, it will take it
                  > > from another source - usually, the person for whom I made it.
                  > >
                  > > It's kind of unnerving, because "intentional" bleeding doesn't count. No
                  > > such thing as a pin-prick, to appease the gods of the wood - it has to be
                  > > a real, honest-to-gosh "bite"!
                  >
                  > I have several projects that remained bloodless. My twin bellows, most
                  > recently. Of course, I'm a blacksmith more than a woodworker, and I _did_
                  > burn myself the second time I used the bellows; so perhaps that covers it.
                  >
                  > Ulfhedinn
                  >
                • conradh@efn.org
                  ... Each one is about two feet wide by four long. Not really large enough, but I was concerned about portability for events. It does throw enough air for
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 14, 2010
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                    On Wed, October 13, 2010 6:25 pm, erik_mage wrote:
                    > Funny you mention the bellows. I was thinking of making one for North
                    > Region War Camp. How large is yours? do you have a sketch?
                    > ERIK
                    >

                    Each one is about two feet wide by four long. Not really large enough,
                    but I was concerned about portability for events. It does throw enough
                    air for forging stock up to 1/2 inch or so. I'm going to use a larger
                    tuyere eventually, which may also help.

                    You do know that the "Great Bellows", the over-and-under style that most
                    people think of, isn't period for the SCA? Medieval smiths used twin
                    bellows, single chambers side by side, blowing alternately into the forge.
                    Early in period, a helper would stand behind, raising and lowering one of
                    the top leaves with each hand. By 1100 or so, they'd figured out how to
                    hang a rocker beam above the bellows and weight each top leaf; so one
                    would go up as the other went down. A long lever is rigged so you can
                    rock the beam while standing near the forge, so you can work without a
                    helper, or have the helper doing something else.

                    They work as well as later bellows--it's not a bad way to move air. Only
                    real drawback is that they are twice as wide as a Great Bellows, so you
                    have to allow for that in your setup. The good side of that is that they
                    are two separate units, hence each half is easier to carry.

                    Some pictures of my setup (from Egils Tourney in Adiantum, AnTir, last
                    spring) are at:

                    www.freewebs.com/ulfhedins/index-2.htm

                    I built this setup partly to get the feel of what a real period rig was
                    like to use, and partly for educational purposes. I'd seen way too many
                    people thinking they'd seen something of a medieval craft, when they'd
                    been watching 18th Century (great bellows, London pattern anvils, leg
                    vises) 19th Century (hand-cranked blowers) or even 20th Century (propane
                    forges!) at a demo booth.

                    I mean, why bother? Any way you do it is considerable work to build and
                    adds up to even more work hauling to events--and it's no more work to get
                    it right. To put things in perspective, the Great Bellows and the London
                    pattern anvil (the kind you see falling on unlucky cartoon characters) are
                    like taking a Brown Bess musket with bayonet out on the tourney field. A
                    propane forge is like taking a Garand rifle, or a Sherman tank.

                    Ulfhedinn
                  • conradh@efn.org
                    ... Some period bellows have the large ends rounded off as I did, others are rectangular. The rounded ends are easier to leather, IMHO. As far as I can tell,
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 14, 2010
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                      On Thu, October 14, 2010 11:44 am, conradh@... wrote:
                      > On Wed, October 13, 2010 6:25 pm, erik_mage wrote:
                      >
                      >> Funny you mention the bellows. I was thinking of making one for North
                      >> Region War Camp. How large is yours? do you have a sketch?
                      >> ERIK
                      >>
                      >>
                      >Some further notes--

                      Some period bellows have the large ends rounded off as I did, others are
                      rectangular. The rounded ends are easier to leather, IMHO.

                      As far as I can tell, we have no descriptions, art depictions or
                      archaeological evidence showing what valves were like back then. Bellows
                      are all shown from side view, and intake valves would be in the bottom
                      boards. So we have to reconstruct/guess. I went with simple light cedar
                      flaps, hinged on very thin leather down one side, closing onto felt for an
                      air seal. One feature (and I have no idea whether this is a brilliant
                      innovation of my own, or whether it was figured out by Hrothgar the Sooty
                      ca. 850 AD!) is that I mounted each valve in a small board of its own,
                      held into the bottom board of each bellows by turnbuttons. That way I can
                      easily remove them if they need fixing, and even better I can reach inside
                      the bellows if it ever needs restitching. Otherwise a minor repair turns
                      into a complete rebuild.

                      However you mount it, your valve should open easily (about as easily as
                      the cover of a small hardback book, I was told years ago) and yet be stiff
                      enough to seal the hole without warping when the chamber is blowing. I
                      made mine from the upper portions of cedar sidewall shakes, about an
                      eighth of an inch thick. The valve also needs some kind of internal stop,
                      because if the hinge lets it flop over 180 degrees when it opens, it won't
                      fall closed again! I just tapped a couple of roofing nails in to either
                      side of the hinge, so that the broad heads of the nails keep the valve
                      flap from coming up more than sixty degrees or so.

                      Ulfhedinn
                    • Hall, Hayward
                      Funny you should ask... http://www.medievalocity.com/ImageDisp.asp?img=281 Actually Theophilous does mention the use of a flapper valve in the nozzle to
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 18, 2010
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                        Funny you should ask...

                        http://www.medievalocity.com/ImageDisp.asp?img=281

                        Actually Theophilous does mention the use of a flapper valve in the nozzle to prevent backflow. It's fairly simple to make, as I have detailed in the article. On some I have had to make the flapper curved to fit the curve of the nozzle tip when open, which means the mating surface also has to be curved.

                        I prefer valves on the bottom that work by gravity for larger single action bellows. They seem to work with less hassle, and are basically just sheetmetal flaps with a tab at the hinge to limit travel. There are images of bellows with valves on top however.

                        The volume calculator should help in determining what size you need to build.

                        De Re Metallica shows bellows with some sort of door on the top. I think the general consensus is that this was a sliding valve to adjust airflow/pressure, however it could as easily been for maintenance. I stitch up the back of the leather with the idea that it can be unstitched for maintenance later.

                        The outlet hole or nozzle plays a huge factor in how they perform. I would err on the side of a little big, because you can always make it smaller but it's a pain to drill it out larger because this affects the valve, etc. For an idea, the large ones I use for running the cupola have a 1.5" outlet, while the small ones for the hearth have a 1/2". If you're having to stand on them to get the volume you need, then you need to increase the outlet size, which will allow you to increase the strokes/minute.

                        Guillaume

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of conradh@...
                        Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 2:22 PM
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Further bellows notes: ( was: Introduction)

                        On Thu, October 14, 2010 11:44 am, conradh@... wrote:
                        > On Wed, October 13, 2010 6:25 pm, erik_mage wrote:
                        >
                        >> Funny you mention the bellows. I was thinking of making one for North
                        >> Region War Camp. How large is yours? do you have a sketch?
                        >> ERIK
                        >>
                        >>
                        >Some further notes--

                        Some period bellows have the large ends rounded off as I did, others are
                        rectangular. The rounded ends are easier to leather, IMHO.

                        As far as I can tell, we have no descriptions, art depictions or
                        archaeological evidence showing what valves were like back then. Bellows
                        are all shown from side view, and intake valves would be in the bottom
                        boards. So we have to reconstruct/guess. I went with simple light cedar
                        flaps, hinged on very thin leather down one side, closing onto felt for an
                        air seal. One feature (and I have no idea whether this is a brilliant
                        innovation of my own, or whether it was figured out by Hrothgar the Sooty
                        ca. 850 AD!) is that I mounted each valve in a small board of its own,
                        held into the bottom board of each bellows by turnbuttons. That way I can
                        easily remove them if they need fixing, and even better I can reach inside
                        the bellows if it ever needs restitching. Otherwise a minor repair turns
                        into a complete rebuild.

                        However you mount it, your valve should open easily (about as easily as
                        the cover of a small hardback book, I was told years ago) and yet be stiff
                        enough to seal the hole without warping when the chamber is blowing. I
                        made mine from the upper portions of cedar sidewall shakes, about an
                        eighth of an inch thick. The valve also needs some kind of internal stop,
                        because if the hinge lets it flop over 180 degrees when it opens, it won't
                        fall closed again! I just tapped a couple of roofing nails in to either
                        side of the hinge, so that the broad heads of the nails keep the valve
                        flap from coming up more than sixty degrees or so.

                        Ulfhedinn



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