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Re: [medievalsawdust] watermills and windmills

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  • kjworz@comcast.net
    Steam motors in 100 BC That s nice, and there is evidence, according to the History channel, that the Greeks had a mechanical clock millenia before a similar
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 29 4:37 AM
      Steam motors in 100 BC

      That's nice, and there is evidence, according to the History channel, that the Greeks had a mechanical clock millenia before a similar device was created, post Renaissance. But the Greeks could have also invented Windows XP, but that doesn't matter, as there is no continuity of use of XP, or fine tooth gearing in mechanical clocks, or steam engines. Inventions that are made but never applied widely and forgotten are historical asides.



      --
      -Chris Schwartz,

      Silver Spring, MD
    • Andrew Lowry
      Further to what Chris said I was looking for the medieval example. The sphere is a well known example and is talked about in any course on steam boilers or
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 29 7:03 AM
        Further to what Chris said I was looking for the medieval example.

        The sphere is a well known example and is talked about in any course on
        steam boilers or steam engines and turbines. Just shows that us
        engineers have read more than one book. Unfortunately it is the only
        example.

        A search found http://www.allesoverballen.com/engels/AEOLIPILE.html for
        a brief write up. Most state that is was a toy not a working engine.

        I do recall someone in the 20 th century tried to build one with
        limited success. The rotary joints would be a major challenge.

        Richard

        On 29-Dec-03, at 12:34 AM, Mark Flebotte wrote:

        > I have a reference to Heron of Alexandria building a steam engine,
        > high pressure and enclosed expansion chamber that caused a sphere to
        > rotate at 1500 RPM in the 100 BC's he called it an aeolipile, he also
        > invented the double acting piston that he later used to build a water
        > pump for fighting fires.
        >  
        > Mark
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Andrew Lowry
        > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent:Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:59 PM
        > Subject:Re: [medievalsawdust] watermills and windmills
        >
        > Steam powered mortar and pestal. I would very much like to see the
        > documentation on that one. What is the date etc.? Was this a concept
        > like Leonardo of an actual construction? There are a lot of technical
        > problems making even low pressure steam machines with medieval
        > technology. The first examples I can find of steam engines is the late
        > 17 th century and they are atmospheric machines.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Richard
        >
        > (mka Andrew Lowry - Professional Engineer former boiler inspector)
        > On 28-Dec-03, at 4:53 PM, Lithium wrote:
        >
        >
        > It is not just waterwheels & Windmills
        >  
        > There are designs in period and just out of period for clockwork
        > escapements and I have an image somewhere of steam powered mortar and
        > pestel.
        >  
        > As for applications of wind and water
        >  
        > Bellows for forges, ventilation for mines, sawmills, drophammers,
        > churners for papermaking, lathes, grainmills, marble sawmills, bilage
        > pumps...etc
        >  
        > I'm not sure how many of these were actually made, but there is
        > evidence that they were thought of (drawings and plans from Agostino
        > Ramelli, Da Vinci, Giovanni Braca,...etc)
        >  
        > But Power Tools existed HUZZAH!
        >  
        >  
        > Cheers
        >  
        > Corinne Hennenberg
        > Senior Foreman of the Gadgetry Guild (Tir Righ)
        > maker of the Automatic Candle Snuffer (pat Pend.)
        >
        >
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      • Tom Rettie
        ... Nah, Greek culture was far too advanced to invent XP. But you raise a good point. The presence of an invention or technology in one place/time is not
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 29 8:19 AM
          >That's nice, and there is evidence, according to the History channel,
          >that the Greeks had a mechanical clock millenia before a similar device
          >was created, post Renaissance. But the Greeks could have also invented
          >Windows XP, but that doesn't matter, as there is no continuity of use of
          >XP, or fine tooth gearing in mechanical clocks, or steam engines.

          Nah, Greek culture was far too advanced to invent XP.

          But you raise a good point. The presence of an invention or technology in
          one place/time is not necessarily evidence for its use in a later
          place/time. Even within the European medieval period, what's done in 14th
          century Italy is not necessarily what's done in 15th century Germany. In
          England, for example, water-powered saw mills were adopted much later than
          on the Continent, in part out of fear of displacing sawyers from their
          profession. My own area of study is lathes, and what I generally find is
          while rotary lathes were known relatively early, it was only metal-working
          trades that adopted them pre-17th century. So even the presence of a
          technology does not necessarily mean it was used for all the purposes to
          which we might want to apply it.

          Regards,

          Tom R.

          ------------------------------------------------
          Tom Rettie tom@...
          http://www.his.com/~tom/index.html
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