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Viking 6-board Chest decoration

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  • Jason
    Hello everyone, I am planning on making the 6-board chest from the mastermyr find for an upcoming a & s competition. I was wanting to know about putting
    Message 1 of 15 , May 8, 2010
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      Hello everyone,

      I am planning on making the 6-board chest from the mastermyr find for an upcoming a & s competition. I was wanting to know about putting decorations on the box. I read on florilegium.com that a chest was found with a game board carved into the top. I was thinking about doing that and possibly putting some viking runes on the sides of the box. Does anyone know if that would be appropriate to the period I am shooting for (1000 ad)? Also, what would be the best way to put the game board on the top? I would also appreciate any game suggestions you can provide. Thank you.
    • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
      hmm.... Couple things to consider. The mastermyr chest has a rounded lid. Might not work well for a game board. I do not think the mastermyr chest had any
      Message 2 of 15 , May 8, 2010
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        hmm....

        Couple things to consider.

        The mastermyr chest  has a rounded lid. Might not work well
        for a game board.

        I do not think the mastermyr chest had any decorative carving on it


        That said..... 

        It's your chest, decorate it however you want.

        You can do a image search on google and share with us 
        some images you like and maybe we can help you narrow
        it down a little.


         
        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

        Aude Aliquid Dignum
        ' Dare Something Worthy '



        From: Jason <monk11876@...>
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 9:28:14 AM
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Viking 6-board Chest decoration

         

        Hello everyone,

        I am planning on making the 6-board chest from the mastermyr find for an upcoming a & s competition. I was wanting to know about putting decorations on the box. I read on florilegium. com that a chest was found with a game board carved into the top. I was thinking about doing that and possibly putting some viking runes on the sides of the box. Does anyone know if that would be appropriate to the period I am shooting for (1000 ad)? Also, what would be the best way to put the game board on the top? I would also appreciate any game suggestions you can provide. Thank you.


      • malcolmmacadaim
        For durable projects that are going to get used, I like to use wood burning. Inexpensive, looks very nice, and pretty easy to do. Seal the finished work
        Message 3 of 15 , May 8, 2010
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          For "durable projects" that are going to get used, I like to use wood burning. Inexpensive, looks very nice, and pretty easy to do. Seal the finished work with a little poly and it will look really nice.

          Malcolm
          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <monk11876@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello everyone,
          >
          > I am planning on making the 6-board chest from the mastermyr find for an upcoming a & s competition. I was wanting to know about putting decorations on the box. I read on florilegium.com that a chest was found with a game board carved into the top. I was thinking about doing that and possibly putting some viking runes on the sides of the box. Does anyone know if that would be appropriate to the period I am shooting for (1000 ad)? Also, what would be the best way to put the game board on the top? I would also appreciate any game suggestions you can provide. Thank you.
          >
        • Colleen Vince
          The game would depend on what era, and what region you are based in. You called the chest a viking 6 board, so I am going to assume your persona is Norse.
          Message 4 of 15 , May 8, 2010
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            The game would depend on what era, and what region you are based in. You called the chest a "viking" 6 board, so I am going to assume your persona is Norse. The northern regions of Europe played an uneven sided capture the king kind of game. There are quite a few variants but they all seem to fall into a group of games called Tafl. The boards range in grid size from 7x7 to 19x19, 

            Hnefatalf   This is a good site that goes over some history and variations of tafl.

            Cheers



            -- 
            Mary Ostler     
            Apprentice to Mistress Agnes Cresewyke
            Lions Gate Games Marshal
            Lions Gate, Tir Righ, An Tir
            www.maryostler.com
          • Eric
            Jason, I ll second the suggestion for pyrography (woodburning), although I prefer oiled finishes over poly for historical pieces. The Vikings used this as a
            Message 5 of 15 , May 8, 2010
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              Jason,

              I'll second the suggestion for pyrography (woodburning), although I prefer oiled finishes over poly for historical pieces. The Vikings used this as a simple, yet effective way to add decoration to many of their items. Think about it from their perspective, this seems like an obvious way to pass the time, sitting around a fire, waiting out a storm, on the long winter's night...

              I also agree with a previous post concerning the curved lid and lack of decoration on the original Mastermyr chest. You can see photos of my version of the chest in the picture folder "Eirikr's Camp" in this yahoo group.

              YIS,
              Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
              Ashgrove, Barony of Altavia, Caid

              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "malcolmmacadaim" <wmcadams@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > For "durable projects" that are going to get used, I like to use wood burning. Inexpensive, looks very nice, and pretty easy to do. Seal the finished work with a little poly and it will look really nice.
              >
              > Malcolm
              > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" <monk11876@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello everyone,
              > >
              > > I am planning on making the 6-board chest from the mastermyr find for an upcoming a & s competition. I was wanting to know about putting decorations on the box. I read on florilegium.com that a chest was found with a game board carved into the top. I was thinking about doing that and possibly putting some viking runes on the sides of the box. Does anyone know if that would be appropriate to the period I am shooting for (1000 ad)? Also, what would be the best way to put the game board on the top? I would also appreciate any game suggestions you can provide. Thank you.
              > >
              >
            • Jason Fields
              Thank you, I have done some further research now that I had a little bit more time on my hands and have found the chest I have envisioned is actually the
              Message 6 of 15 , May 8, 2010
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                Thank you, I have done some further research now that I had a little bit more time on my hands and have found the chest I have envisioned is actually the Oseburg chest. I plan on this chest also doubling as camp seating/low table as needed so a flat top will be necessary. I believe that Tafl is just the game I need. I will be using pyrography to mark the board on the top of the chest. How would some Futhark runes going around the edges of the board look? I know Elder Futhark runes were not very common around 1000 ad anymore but the name of the runes used at that time escapes me. Anyone refreshing my memory on what runes were used would be most appreciated. As would any suggestions as to which specific runes would be appropriate around a gaming board. I really appreciate everyone's response. Thank you all so much.

                P.S. as for the region, Norway/Scandinavia around 1000 ad is what I am currently looking for.



                From: Colleen Vince <42vince@...>
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sat, May 8, 2010 12:45:39 PM
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Viking 6-board Chest decoration

                 

                The game would depend on what era, and what region you are based in. You called the chest a "viking" 6 board, so I am going to assume your persona is Norse. The northern regions of Europe played an uneven sided capture the king kind of game. There are quite a few variants but they all seem to fall into a group of games called Tafl. The boards range in grid size from 7x7 to 19x19, 


                Hnefatalf   This is a good site that goes over some history and variations of tafl.

                Cheers



                -- 
                Mary Ostler     
                Apprentice to Mistress Agnes Cresewyke
                Lions Gate Games Marshal
                Lions Gate, Tir Righ, An Tir
                www.maryostler. com

              • RuthT
                By carved they mean, incised I ve duplicated a number of Viking gameboards, from my museum catalogs. They tended to incide/carve them into ordinary things,
                Message 7 of 15 , May 13, 2010
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                  By 'carved' they mean, 'incised'
                  I've duplicated a number of Viking gameboards, from my museum catalogs.
                  They tended to incide/carve them into ordinary things, like benches, barrel lids, serving platters (front and back of the platters, a different game on each side), the back of a lidded wax tablet, etc. etc.
                  (They also scribed them into flat stones)

                  To incise is easy. (and takes Far less time, then wood-burning, though I admit, I prefer the appearance of the wood burning, it has So many more opportunities for eye-pleasing embelishments)

                  Just the point of a knife. Cut staright into the wood, to do the design.
                  Granted, you may not, then, be able to See all of the design, especially any that run into the grain of the wood. For that, you can rub some charcoal into the cut lines, with the tip of your finger, til the design is revealed, and then go back over it all with fine sandpaper (The Vikings used Shark or Ray skin, both very 'sandy' but darned difficult to find on the net,....I found some out of India, of all places,...but, only sold in huge bundles I didn't need, so I passed)

                  They also had available to them a sort of primative (pre-historic-type) plant,...a member of the Horsetail family http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/grasses/plants/scouring_rush.htm
                  (sorry, that's the first source a net search brought up) The rush has bits/particles of silica imbedded in it, that, when used/rubbed into wood, acts like sanding paper. I've used it, but I can tell you from experience, I Don't like it. I mean it WORKS Fine. What I don't like, is that those same minute bits of silica, will embed themselves into your fingers, and make you nuts with the irritation.
                  (Holding them in a piece of soft leather, will solve that problem)

                  Anyway,.....if you can't get the original stuff,....fine sandpaper will produce pretty much the same results (yes, I've done controlled experiments, to compare the two)

                  All you want to do, is smooth down the top of the wood, over the incised designs, and remove any excess charcoal. If you've cut deep enough (a quarter inch is More than enough) then your design should just pop out, when you add a coating of linseed oil.

                  If you'd rather have a bit more of a 'carved' aspect to it,.....then, instead of using the charcoal, go back, and cut the lines, again, but This time, with the sharp point, sleightly tilted, so you remove a thin sliver of wood along each one, along the edge of the deeper cut.
                  This makes your design stronger in appearance, and is a Totally Viking technique (well, the other is, also,.....)

                  If you want to do some decorative stuff, also, go wih knife-work (point tip) chip-carving. It's not difficult. and needs nothing more than a sharp (thin) knife.

                  (on a side note)

                  I've heard protest that 'chip-carving' hasn't been documented, until something like the 15th/16th century.
                  Horsefeathers !!!!!
                  The Vikings WERE doing it !!!!
                  Documented ?
                  as in 'written' reference ?
                  What in the heck do they think is on SO many pieces, from the Oseberg Find ?
                  It's chip carving !!! (and a LOT Of it)
                  I've been there (last Sept)(Museum in Oslo) I've seen it with my own eyes. I've also reproduced a lot of it, and Viking spoons, etc. from the Dublin area (been There, too)

                  Anyway, the main thing is Have Fun, and try to keep to the old ways as much as you're able to. (I'm a real stickler, personally, about that, but that's just me.)
                  Shara
                  myspace.com/windsingersmoon
                  (if you can get in there to see my albums, look in the one V.(iking) and Med.(ieval) toys )


                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <ewdysar@...> wrote:
                  >
                  I read on florilegium.com that a chest was found with a game board carved into the top. I was thinking about doing that and possibly putting some viking runes on the sides of the box. Does anyone know if that would be appropriate to the period I am shooting for (1000 ad)? Also, what would be the best way to put the game board on the top? I would also appreciate any game suggestions you can provide. Thank you.
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • conradh@efn.org
                  On Thu, May 13, 2010 8:57 am, RuthT wrote: ... Thank you very much! Horsetails/scouring rushes are very common here, and you
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 13, 2010
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                    On Thu, May 13, 2010 8:57 am, RuthT wrote:
                    <lots of good stuff snipped>
                    >
                    > They also had available to them a sort of primative (pre-historic-type)
                    > plant,...a member of the Horsetail family
                    > http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/grasses/plants/scouring_rush.htm
                    > (sorry, that's the first source a net search brought up) The rush has
                    > bits/particles of silica imbedded in it, that, when used/rubbed into
                    > wood, acts like sanding paper. I've used it, but I can tell you from
                    > experience, I Don't like it. I mean it WORKS Fine. What I don't like,
                    > is that those same minute bits of silica, will embed themselves into your
                    > fingers, and make you nuts with the irritation. (Holding them in a piece
                    > of soft leather, will solve that problem)
                    >

                    Thank you very much! Horsetails/scouring rushes are very common here, and
                    you needn't worry about harvesting them because they're impossible to get
                    rid of, ask any gardener. (John Seymour tried for years, a strip of them
                    was still growing across one of his fields, and he ended up realizing
                    "they have been growing here since Carboniferous times."

                    Ulfhedinn
                  • RuthT
                    A side note, to the below: I JUST found another reference to chip-carving in a new book added to my library. The book is on Roman Jewelry. The book is
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 26, 2010
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                      A side note, to the below:

                      I JUST found another reference to 'chip-carving' in a new book added to my library.
                      The book is on Roman Jewelry.
                      The book is written/published in England.
                      The author mentions that the Romans carved jewelry moulds in WOOD, and then did Chip Carving designs into them, with the resulting (cast in the mould) jewelry piece having fawcetted angles, to catch-the-light.

                      Yes, it's a secondary source, but they, in England, have research books and sources for such things, that we simply Don't, and the author seemed quite confident of his/her facts.

                      For That matter, I'd been hearing in recent years of wood molds having been made to cast pewter/silver/gold jewelry in, and last year decided to put the idea to the test. I carved a mold for a Medieval pendant in one of my museum catalogs. I took the mold to Gulf Wars, (last year) and talked to Stefan of the Floralegium (I know him, fairly well, by now) He was excited at the idea, and allowed me to use his stuff, to see if, and how well, it worked. He was DELIGHTED with the result, and asked me if I'd mind writing him an article ? (a how-to) on it,.... I did, and now it's in his Floralegium files, with progress pix, etc.

                      (look under Metel or Jewelry working)
                      Wait,...I think This will produce it :
                      http://www.florilegium.org/?http%3A//www.florilegium.org/files/CRAFTS/Cast-Wood-Mlds-art.html

                      YIS
                      Shara

                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "RuthT" <asa.wood@...> wrote:

                      >
                      > If you want to do some decorative stuff, also, go wih knife-work (point tip) chip-carving. It's not difficult. and needs nothing more than a sharp (thin) knife.
                      >
                      > (on a side note)
                      >
                      > I've heard protest that 'chip-carving' hasn't been documented, until something like the 15th/16th century.
                      > Horsefeathers !!!!!
                      > The Vikings WERE doing it !!!!
                      > Documented ?
                      > as in 'written' reference ?
                      > What in the heck do they think is on SO many pieces, from the Oseberg Find ?
                      > It's chip carving !!! (and a LOT Of it)
                      > I've been there (last Sept)(Museum in Oslo) I've seen it with my own eyes. I've also reproduced a lot of it, and Viking spoons, etc. from the Dublin area (been There, too)
                      >
                      > Anyway, the main thing is Have Fun, and try to keep to the old ways as much as you're able to. (I'm a real stickler, personally, about that, but that's just me.)
                      > Shara
                      > myspace.com/windsingersmoon
                      > (if you can get in there to see my albums, look in the one V.(iking) and Med.(ieval) toys )
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <ewdysar@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > I read on florilegium.com that a chest was found with a game board carved into the top. I was thinking about doing that and possibly putting some viking runes on the sides of the box. Does anyone know if that would be appropriate to the period I am shooting for (1000 ad)? Also, what would be the best way to put the game board on the top? I would also appreciate any game suggestions you can provide. Thank you.
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Beth and Bob Matney
                      Hello Shara, Yes, people have been casting pewter (tin) & lead alloys in wooden molds for quite a while. I also did some about 20 years ago. I think that you
                      Message 10 of 15 , May 26, 2010
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                        Hello Shara,

                        Yes, people have been casting pewter (tin) & lead alloys in wooden
                        molds for quite a while. I also did some about 20 years ago. I think
                        that you will find that some woods work better (cherry is good.. oak
                        not very good, avoid softwoods). I also prefer talc (talcum power) as
                        opposed to baby powder (this is cornstarch) for the parting compound.
                        I personally would not try to cast higher temp metals (bronze,
                        silver, gold) in wood.. for safety reasons.

                        What is the title/isbn number of the book you have?

                        Beth

                        At 11:03 AM 5/26/2010, you wrote:
                        >A side note, to the below:
                        >
                        >I JUST found another reference to 'chip-carving' in a new book added
                        >to my library.
                        >The book is on Roman Jewelry.
                        >The book is written/published in England.
                        >The author mentions that the Romans carved jewelry moulds in WOOD,
                        >and then did Chip Carving designs into them, with the resulting
                        >(cast in the mould) jewelry piece having fawcetted angles, to catch-the-light.
                        >
                        >Yes, it's a secondary source, but they, in England, have research
                        >books and sources for such things, that we simply Don't, and the
                        >author seemed quite confident of his/her facts.
                        >
                        >For That matter, I'd been hearing in recent years of wood molds
                        >having been made to cast pewter/silver/gold jewelry in, and last
                        >year decided to put the idea to the test. I carved a mold for a
                        >Medieval pendant in one of my museum catalogs. I took the mold to
                        >Gulf Wars, (last year) and talked to Stefan of the Floralegium (I
                        >know him, fairly well, by now) He was excited at the idea, and
                        >allowed me to use his stuff, to see if, and how well, it
                        >worked. He was DELIGHTED with the result, and asked me if I'd
                        >mind writing him an article ? (a how-to) on it,.... I did, and now
                        >it's in his Floralegium files, with progress pix, etc.
                        >
                        >(look under Metel or Jewelry working)
                        >Wait,...I think This will produce it :
                        >http://www.florilegium.org/?http%3A//www.florilegium.org/files/CRAFTS/Cast-Wood-Mlds-art.html
                        >
                        >YIS
                        >Shara
                        >
                        >--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "RuthT" <asa.wood@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > > If you want to do some decorative stuff, also, go wih knife-work
                        > (point tip) chip-carving. It's not difficult. and needs nothing
                        > more than a sharp (thin) knife.
                        > >
                        > > (on a side note)
                        > >
                        > > I've heard protest that 'chip-carving' hasn't been documented,
                        > until something like the 15th/16th century.
                        > > Horsefeathers !!!!!
                        > > The Vikings WERE doing it !!!!
                        > > Documented ?
                        > > as in 'written' reference ?
                        > > What in the heck do they think is on SO many pieces, from the
                        > Oseberg Find ?
                        > > It's chip carving !!! (and a LOT Of it)
                        > > I've been there (last Sept)(Museum in Oslo) I've seen it with my
                        > own eyes. I've also reproduced a lot of it, and Viking spoons,
                        > etc. from the Dublin area (been There, too)
                        > >
                        > > Anyway, the main thing is Have Fun, and try to keep to the old
                        > ways as much as you're able to. (I'm a real stickler, personally,
                        > about that, but that's just me.)
                        > > Shara
                        > > myspace.com/windsingersmoon
                        > > (if you can get in there to see my albums, look in the one
                        > V.(iking) and Med.(ieval) toys )
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <ewdysar@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > I read on florilegium.com that a chest was found with a game
                        > board carved into the top. I was thinking about doing that and
                        > possibly putting some viking runes on the sides of the box. Does
                        > anyone know if that would be appropriate to the period I am
                        > shooting for (1000 ad)? Also, what would be the best way to put the
                        > game board on the top? I would also appreciate any game suggestions
                        > you can provide. Thank you.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >------------------------------------
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Stu
                        ... I have been casting pewter direct onto my bagpipes and some other woodwinds for a few years with just a round of cardboard about the piece to hold it in. I
                        Message 11 of 15 , May 26, 2010
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                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hello Shara,
                          >
                          > Yes, people have been casting pewter (tin) & lead alloys in wooden
                          > molds for quite a while. I also did some about 20 years ago. I think I

                          I have been casting pewter direct onto my bagpipes and some other woodwinds for a few years with just a round of cardboard about the piece to hold it in. I then leave it 24 hours and turn as normal on the lathe. works great, turns just like the wood with my normal chisels. You can make just a basic ferule or elaborately carving it first with an inverted V to hold the pewter, can lace the entire piece in a net of pewter. Very cool and non modern look.

                          Aleyn
                        • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                          pictures? Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy ________________________________ From: Stu To:
                          Message 12 of 15 , May 26, 2010
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                            pictures?
                             
                            Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                            Aude Aliquid Dignum
                            ' Dare Something Worthy '



                            From: Stu <stu.shan@...>
                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 4:26:50 PM
                            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Chip Carving, etc.

                             



                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Beth and Bob Matney <bmatney@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello Shara,
                            >
                            > Yes, people have been casting pewter (tin) & lead alloys in wooden
                            > molds for quite a while. I also did some about 20 years ago. I think I

                            I have been casting pewter direct onto my bagpipes and some other woodwinds for a few years with just a round of cardboard about the piece to hold it in. I then leave it 24 hours and turn as normal on the lathe. works great, turns just like the wood with my normal chisels. You can make just a basic ferule or elaborately carving it first with an inverted V to hold the pewter, can lace the entire piece in a net of pewter. Very cool and non modern look.

                            Aleyn


                          • Stu
                            ... Would help if I owned a digital camera. I ll see what I can scare up. Finished product or process? I do have to do a couple of sets of pipes this summer
                            Message 13 of 15 , May 26, 2010
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                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > pictures?
                              >
                              Would help if I owned a digital camera. I'll see what I can scare up. Finished product or process? I do have to do a couple of sets of pipes this summer I'll be using the cast on process on. If you want photos of the process, it would have to wait till then.

                              Aleyn
                            • Thylacine
                              I would be interested in seeing both. This sounds really kool. Thylacine
                              Message 14 of 15 , May 27, 2010
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                                I would be interested in seeing both. This sounds really kool.
                                Thylacine

                                On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Stu <stu.shan@...> wrote:
                                 



                                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > pictures?
                                >
                                Would help if I owned a digital camera. I'll see what I can scare up. Finished product or process? I do have to do a couple of sets of pipes this summer I'll be using the cast on process on. If you want photos of the process, it would have to wait till then.

                                Aleyn


                                 
                              • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                both finished pieces and the process would be great to see! Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy
                                Message 15 of 15 , May 27, 2010
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                                  both finished pieces and the process would be great to see!
                                   
                                  Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                  Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                  ' Dare Something Worthy '



                                  From: Stu <stu.shan@...>
                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 6:58:29 PM
                                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Chip Carving, etc.

                                   



                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > pictures?
                                  >
                                  Would help if I owned a digital camera. I'll see what I can scare up. Finished product or process? I do have to do a couple of sets of pipes this summer I'll be using the cast on process on. If you want photos of the process, it would have to wait till then.

                                  Aleyn


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