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Mortice on Steam bent wood question

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  • Colleen Vince
    Hello all, I am close to starting on a new tent project and have a question I have not dealt with before. I will be making a 2.5 yurt ring in the next few
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 8, 2010
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      Hello all,
       
      I am close to starting on a new tent project and have a question I have not dealt with before.
       
      I will be making a 2.5' yurt ring in the next few weeks. It will be steam bent (wood not decided on yet) and needs a series of mortice holes along the side of the ring. I have steam bent wood, and I have moticed holes in flat wood, but never have had to mortice a hole on a curved piece of wood.
       
      Is it workable to do the morticing on the flat (pre-steamed) piece of wood and then bend it. I realize I would still have to do some clean up of the mortice after the fact, but would this cause other problems I am not foreseeing?
       
      Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
       
      Dirty Mary

      --
      Mary Ostler    
      Apprentice to Mistress Agnes Cresewyke
      Lions Gate Game Minister
      www.maryostler.com
    • Bill McNutt
      Having never undertaken this task, all I can do is submit an educated guess: I think that your mortises may well weaken your wood to the point that it will
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 8, 2010
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        Having never undertaken this task, all I can do is submit an educated guess:  I think that your mortises may well weaken your wood to the point that it will break during the steam bending process.  I would be prone to cut the mortises after I had the ring, or construct a laminated ring.  But I would be very interested in the results of the experiment.

         

        Will

         

        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colleen Vince
        Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 10:13 AM
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Mortice on Steam bent wood question

         

         

        Hello all,

         

        I am close to starting on a new tent project and have a question I have not dealt with before.

         

        I will be making a 2.5' yurt ring in the next few weeks. It will be steam bent (wood not decided on yet) and needs a series of mortice holes along the side of the ring. I have steam bent wood, and I have moticed holes in flat wood, but never have had to mortice a hole on a curved piece of wood.

         

        Is it workable to do the morticing on the flat (pre-steamed) piece of wood and then bend it. I realize I would still have to do some clean up of the mortice after the fact, but would this cause other problems I am not foreseeing?

         

        Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

         

        Dirty Mary

        --
        Mary Ostler    
        Apprentice to Mistress Agnes Cresewyke
        Lions Gate Game Minister
        www.maryostler.com

      • conradh@efn.org
        ... I would think the mortices would make weak spots, where the wood would kink or simply break during the steam bending. Unless you can find some wood with
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 8, 2010
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          On Thu, April 8, 2010 7:13 am, Colleen Vince wrote:
          > Hello all,
          >
          >
          > I am close to starting on a new tent project and have a question I have
          > not dealt with before.
          >
          > I will be making a 2.5' yurt ring in the next few weeks. It will be steam
          > bent (wood not decided on yet) and needs a series of mortice holes along
          > the side of the ring. I have steam bent wood, and I have moticed holes in
          > flat wood, but never have had to mortice a hole on a curved piece of wood.
          >
          >
          > Is it workable to do the morticing on the flat (pre-steamed) piece of
          > wood and then bend it. I realize I would still have to do some clean up of
          > the mortice after the fact, but would this cause other problems I am not
          > foreseeing?
          >
          > Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

          I would think the mortices would make weak spots, where the wood would
          kink or simply break during the steam bending. Unless you can find some
          wood with knots spaced just where you need the mortices (so the grain runs
          around the holes and maintains strength) I suspect you'll need to
          steam-bend the wood and give it a little time to settle down before
          chopping any holes.

          You could always experiment with a shorter piece of the same dimensions,
          and see if you can get a smooth curve past a precut mortice.

          Ulfhedinn
        • Karl Christoffers
            ... All my boatbuilding texts have you bend wood first, and then cut holes in it. -Malcolm macGregor Recent Activity: New Members 1 Visit Your Group
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 8, 2010
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            On Thu, April 8, 2010 7:13 am, Colleen Vince wrote:
            > Hello all,
            >
            >
            > I am close to starting on a new tent project and have a question I have
            > not dealt with before.
            >
            > I will be making a 2.5' yurt ring in the next few weeks. It will be steam
            > bent (wood not decided on yet) and needs a series of mortice holes along
            > the side of the ring. I have steam bent wood, and I have moticed holes in
            > flat wood, but never have had to mortice a hole on a curved piece of wood.
            >
            >
            > Is it workable to do the morticing on the flat (pre-steamed) piece of
            > wood and then bend it. I realize I would still have to do some clean up of
            > the mortice after the fact, but would this cause other problems I am not
            > foreseeing?
            >
            > Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
            All my boatbuilding texts have you bend wood first, and then cut holes in it.
            -Malcolm macGregor

            Recent Activity:
            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/
            .


          • tessa_rat
            FWIW, the one real yurt I ve seen up close (19th century, Kazahk made) had a ring that appeared to be laminated up from a stack of steam bent rings. The
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 9, 2010
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              FWIW, the one real yurt I've seen up close (19th century, Kazahk made) had a ring that appeared to be laminated up from a stack of steam bent rings. The mortises were formed by blocks glued? between an upper and lower bent ring.

              It could be that I was misinterpreting what I was seeing, and the museum staff wouldn't let me take it apart for a better look :~(, but there were at least three layers held together somehow.

              Fritz Wilhelm
              welldressedtent.com


              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Colleen Vince <42vince@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello all,
              >
              > I am close to starting on a new tent project and have a question I have not
              > dealt with before.
              >
              > I will be making a 2.5' yurt ring in the next few weeks. It will be steam
              > bent (wood not decided on yet) and needs a series of mortice holes along the
              > side of the ring. I have steam bent wood, and I have moticed holes in flat
              > wood, but never have had to mortice a hole on a curved piece of wood.
              >
              > Is it workable to do the morticing on the flat (pre-steamed) piece of wood
              > and then bend it. I realize I would still have to do some clean up of the
              > mortice after the fact, but would this cause other problems I am not
              > foreseeing?
              >
              > Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
              >
              > Dirty Mary
              >
              > --
              > Mary Ostler
              > Apprentice to Mistress Agnes Cresewyke
              > Lions Gate Game Minister
              > www.maryostler.com
              >
            • Bill McNutt
              Dontcha just hate that? Every time I show up with a mallet and heat gun, they act like I m firing up a sawzall. Will From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 9, 2010
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                Dontcha just hate that? Every time I show up with a mallet and heat gun, they act like I’m firing up a sawzall.

                 

                Will

                 

                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tessa_rat
                Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 10:56 AM
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Mortice on Steam bent wood question



                It could be that I was misinterpreting what I was seeing, and the museum staff wouldn't let me take it apart for a better look :~(, but there were at least three layers held together somehow.

                Fritz Wilhelm
                welldressedtent.com

              • Bill McNutt
                That s how I ve always seen em done. Never done any research on my own, though. Will From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 9, 2010
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                  That’s how I’ve always seen ‘em done.  Never done any research on my own, though.

                   

                  Will

                   

                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tessa_rat
                  Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 10:56 AM
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Mortice on Steam bent wood question

                   

                   


                  FWIW, the one real yurt I've seen up close (19th century, Kazahk made) had a ring that appeared to be laminated up from a stack of steam bent rings. The mortises were formed by blocks glued? between an upper and lower bent ring.

                  It could be that I was misinterpreting what I was seeing, and the museum staff wouldn't let me take it apart for a better look :~(, but there were at least three layers held together somehow.

                  Fritz Wilhelm
                  welldressedtent.com

                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Colleen Vince <42vince@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Hello all,
                  >
                  > I am close to starting on a new tent project and have a question I have
                  not
                  > dealt with before.
                  >
                  > I will be making a 2.5' yurt ring in the next few weeks. It will be steam
                  > bent (wood not decided on yet) and needs a series of mortice holes along
                  the
                  > side of the ring. I have steam bent wood, and I have moticed holes in flat
                  > wood, but never have had to mortice a hole on a curved piece of wood.
                  >
                  > Is it workable to do the morticing on the flat (pre-steamed) piece of wood
                  > and then bend it. I realize I would still have to do some clean up of the
                  > mortice after the fact, but would this cause other problems I am not
                  > foreseeing?
                  >
                  > Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
                  >
                  > Dirty Mary
                  >
                  > --
                  > Mary Ostler
                  > Apprentice to Mistress Agnes Cresewyke
                  > Lions Gate Game Minister
                  > www.maryostler.com
                  >

                • michael_recchione
                  I know this thread is a little old, and maybe the answer doesn t matter anymore, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents: You have to bend the wood first,
                  Message 8 of 10 , May 6, 2010
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                    I know this thread is a little old, and maybe the answer doesn't matter anymore, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents: You have to bend the wood first, then cut the holes. Besides the fact that, if you cut them before bending the wood, the wood would probably break at that point (not necessarily, but much more likely than if the holes weren't there...), but also because bending the wood changes the shape of the mortice - the holes would no longer be the same shape that you cut once the wood was bent around them (unless they happened to be in a straight segment that didn't get compressed/stretched by bending).

                    Bottom line: Shape the wood first, then cut the joints.

                    - Michael


                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Colleen Vince <42vince@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello all,
                    >
                    > I am close to starting on a new tent project and have a question I have not
                    > dealt with before.
                    >
                    > I will be making a 2.5' yurt ring in the next few weeks. It will be steam
                    > bent (wood not decided on yet) and needs a series of mortice holes along the
                    > side of the ring. I have steam bent wood, and I have moticed holes in flat
                    > wood, but never have had to mortice a hole on a curved piece of wood.
                    >
                    > Is it workable to do the morticing on the flat (pre-steamed) piece of wood
                    > and then bend it. I realize I would still have to do some clean up of the
                    > mortice after the fact, but would this cause other problems I am not
                    > foreseeing?
                    >
                    > Any thoughts greatly appreciated.
                    >
                    > Dirty Mary
                    >
                    > --
                    > Mary Ostler
                    > Apprentice to Mistress Agnes Cresewyke
                    > Lions Gate Game Minister
                    > www.maryostler.com
                    >
                  • Colleen Vince
                    The thread is a little old but I m glad you posted as I had forget to thank everyone who took the time to respond. I kind of thought I d had to do the bend
                    Message 9 of 10 , May 6, 2010
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                      The thread is a little old but I'm glad you posted as I had forget to thank everyone who took the time to respond. 

                      I kind of thought I'd had to do the bend first, but deep down was hoping their was an easier way. My mortising skills need some work while dealing with a flat surface let alone a curved one.

                      Thanks everyone.

                      Dirty Mary

                      --
                      Mary Ostler    
                      Apprentice to Mistress Agnes Cresewyke
                      Lions Gate Game Marshal
                      www.maryostler.com
                    • tessa_rat
                      These guys ( http://www.lfy.ca/our_yurts.html ) burn the mortises into the ring. I have no idea if that is the correct way to do it, but it seems to have a
                      Message 10 of 10 , May 6, 2010
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                        These guys ( http://www.lfy.ca/our_yurts.html ) burn the mortises into the ring. I have no idea if that is the "correct" way to do it, but it seems to have a lot going for it.

                        Fritz Wilhelm
                        welldressedtent.com

                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Colleen Vince <42vince@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The thread is a little old but I'm glad you posted as I had forget to thank
                        > everyone who took the time to respond.
                        >
                        > I kind of thought I'd had to do the bend first, but deep down was hoping
                        > their was an easier way. My mortising skills need some work while dealing
                        > with a flat surface let alone a curved one.
                        >
                        > Thanks everyone.
                        >
                        > Dirty Mary
                        >
                        > --
                        > Mary Ostler
                        > Apprentice to Mistress Agnes Cresewyke
                        > Lions Gate Game Marshal
                        > www.maryostler.com
                        >
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