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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Tent poles

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  • Caley Woulfe
    I made all my poles with nothing but a hacksaw, power drill and a hammer. If you can borrow a drill, even better. Here s how: Materials - 2 x 2 pieces of
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 18 4:58 AM
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      I made all my poles with nothing but a hacksaw, power drill and a hammer. If
      you can borrow a drill, even better.

      Here's how:



      Materials -

      2 x 2 pieces of limber, usually pine. Can be gotten at Lowe's or Home Depot.

      1 (or 2) aluminum rods 3/8" diameter. Steel is harder to cut and will rust.

      Hacksaw for sawing both wood and aluminum rods.

      Metal rasp

      Electric drill with 1/2" bit

      hammer

      duct tape

      two chairs



      Directions -



      Step 1. Cut the 2 x2s into whatever length they need to be using the two
      kitchen chairs to support each piece as you cut it.

      Step 2. Cut the pins (I use aluminum rods, not steel ones) into 6" pieces
      using the same method as above.

      Step 3. Take a strip of duct tape and wind it around the drill bit 3" from
      the tip. This will prevent you from drilling a hole too deep in the poles.

      Step 4. Lay a pole on the floor with one end against the wall. Place the
      drill bit against the end with the point in the middle of the pole. Look at
      if from several angles to make sure the bit is parallel to the pole. Drill
      in until the duct tape touches the pole and gently withdraw. You might have
      to go in twice before you reach the duct tape mark because the sawdust might
      get in the way.
      Repeat with all the poles.

      Step 5. Take a pole and butt its end against the wall. Take a pin and hammer
      it in until it won't go any further. Rasp off the sharp edges and jags or it
      will tear any canvas it comes into contact with. Repeat with all the poles.

      Done!


      Caley
    • Siegfried
      ... Depending upon the weight/height/etc of your pavilion, you may want to upgrade to 2x3 and/or 2x4 for your more sturdy uprights. Also, if you are needing to
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 18 5:51 AM
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        A couple suggestions to perhaps make this process simpler, in some cases:

        > 2 x 2 pieces of limber, usually pine. Can be gotten at Lowe's or Home Depot.

        Depending upon the weight/height/etc of your pavilion, you may want to
        upgrade to 2x3 and/or 2x4 for your more sturdy uprights.

        Also, if you are needing to make a ridge pole, and/or take-down poles
        for tall uprights, that's a whole different story.

        > 1 (or 2) aluminum rods 3/8" diameter. Steel is harder to cut and will rust.

        As long as they work for your situation, you can also use nails. Not
        normal nails, but if you look you'll find a section in the hardware
        store of LARGE hot galvinized nails, in various sizes.

        Small ones work great for perimeter poles. Big ones for uprights. You
        can just drill the hole, then hammer it in slightly, the point will
        drive in, and you are golden.

        You can leave the head on, and it helps keep rope/fabric/etc from
        sliding off. Plus you don't have to worry about rasping anything, it's
        already nicely rounded over for you.

        If you 'really need to', you can hacksaw the heads off.

        > Hacksaw for sawing both wood and aluminum rods.

        I'd highly recommend a good handsaw for the wood instead of a hacksaw.
        Much more efficient and less likely to send you screaming in frustration.

        Heck, if you really want to reduce the amount of work. You could have
        the hardware store cut your poles to length for you. And you only need
        drill holes and drive in nails. Done. (Again, assuming perimeter poles
        only. Uprights are a little more work, and ridge poles are a whole
        'nudder' situation)

        Siegfried


        --
        Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
        http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
      • Electric Wolf
        Thank you both. I have some questions and notes, placed in line. ... The main thing right now is perimeter poles but I will also need to make two of the big
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 18 6:15 AM
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          Thank you both. I have some questions and notes, placed in line.

          On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Siegfried <siegfried@...> wrote:
          > A couple suggestions to perhaps make this process simpler, in some cases:
          >
          >> 2 x 2 pieces of limber, usually pine. Can be gotten at Lowe's or Home Depot.
          >
          > Depending upon the weight/height/etc of your pavilion, you may want to
          > upgrade to 2x3 and/or 2x4 for your more sturdy uprights.
          >
          > Also, if you are needing to make a ridge pole, and/or take-down poles
          > for tall uprights, that's a whole different story.

          The main thing right now is perimeter poles but I will also need to
          make two of the big ones that go in the center. It's a round tent. I
          was going to save those questions for after I finish the poles. He
          mentioned 6'4" 2x2 but I didn't know boards came in 2x2. Was really
          starting to panic about ripping 8' boards with a hand saw...

          >
          >> 1 (or 2) aluminum rods 3/8" diameter. Steel is harder to cut and will rust.
          >
          > As long as they work for your situation, you can also use nails.  Not
          > normal nails, but if you look you'll find a section in the hardware
          > store of LARGE hot galvinized nails, in various sizes.
          >
          > Small ones work great for perimeter poles.  Big ones for uprights.  You
          > can just drill the hole, then hammer it in slightly, the point will
          > drive in, and you are golden.
          >
          > You can leave the head on, and it helps keep rope/fabric/etc from
          > sliding off.  Plus you don't have to worry about rasping anything, it's
          > already nicely rounded over for you.
          >
          > If you 'really need to', you can hacksaw the heads off.

          I have seen both styles but I think I will go with the nail solution
          for now, all else fails I can do the aluminum rod method when I have a
          whole camp to help. :D
          Looks like the holes in the tent are 3/8". Do I want the head that
          size or the body of the nail?

          >
          >> Hacksaw for sawing both wood and aluminum rods.
          >
          > I'd highly recommend a good handsaw for the wood instead of a hacksaw.
          > Much more efficient and less likely to send you screaming in frustration.
          >
          > Heck, if you really want to reduce the amount of work.  You could have
          > the hardware store cut your poles to length for you.  And you only need
          > drill holes and drive in nails.  Done.  (Again, assuming perimeter poles
          > only.  Uprights are a little more work, and ridge poles are a whole
          > 'nudder' situation)
          >
          > Siegfried
          >
          >
          > --
          > Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
          > http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
          >

          I hope to some day be able to come up with solutions the way you two
          have, unfortunately I'll still struggling with straight lines...
          Also I hope to be able to run into any one on this list at Lilies. :)

          --
          David "Wolf" Mc.
          Nullum beneficium inpune stat.
        • Siegfried
          ... heh heh. For center poles for a round tent, you probably want more than a 2x2. Lots of weight on those poles. a 2x4 can work, or if you can find
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 18 7:50 AM
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            > The main thing right now is perimeter poles but I will also need to
            > make two of the big ones that go in the center. It's a round tent. I
            > was going to save those questions for after I finish the poles. He
            > mentioned 6'4" 2x2 but I didn't know boards came in 2x2. Was really
            > starting to panic about ripping 8' boards with a hand saw...

            heh heh.

            For center poles for a round tent, you 'probably' want more than a 2x2.
            Lots of weight on those poles. a 2x4 can work, or if you can find
            un-pressure-treated 4x4's, those are awesome :)

            > I have seen both styles but I think I will go with the nail solution
            > for now, all else fails I can do the aluminum rod method when I have a
            > whole camp to help. :D
            > Looks like the holes in the tent are 3/8". Do I want the head that
            > size or the body of the nail?

            Depends. You gonna cut the heads off? or not? You need the 'prong'
            to be able to make it through the hole. So if you are leaving the
            heads on, make sure the head will fit.

            Now, since you've mentioned circular tent & 'holes'. I'll add one
            caveat. I'm assuming that you actually have holes/grommets in the
            fabric. IE, 'places where water is going to come into the tent' ;)

            Versus external 'tabs'. In that case, just keep in mind, that the
            better the 'rod' fits the 'hole' ... the less chance you will have of
            water infiltration.

            (Though typically your rope does a good job of helping to 'close' the hole).

            But, it's a potential reason to use the aluminum rod. To get a good
            3/8" rod to fit the 3/8" hole. (or at least a 5/16" rod). Whereas a
            nail, especially if you leave the head on, is going to not close the gap.

            YMMV

            Siegfried


            --
            Barun Siegfried Sebastian Faust - Barony of Highland Foorde - Atlantia
            http://hf.atlantia.sca.org/ - http://crossbows.biz/ - http://eliw.com/
          • Wm G
            ... When you get this thing up the first time, take a look at the tent where they meet the poles. A square pole will put 4 pressure points on the tent,
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 18 7:54 AM
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              On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 10:50 -0400, Siegfried wrote:
              > > The main thing right now is perimeter poles but I will also need to

              When you get this thing up the first time, take a look at the tent where
              they meet the poles. A square pole will put 4 pressure points on the
              tent, eventually wearing holes. Figure out how much you need to round
              off to make it a smooth surface for the tent to ride in.

              RileyG
            • Oswald Frank
              Most 2x2 s and 2x4 s I ve seen in big-box lumber stores is of lower quality than I d like for tent poles. It s just not straight enough. If you have a Lowe s
              Message 6 of 17 , Mar 18 8:16 AM
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                Most 2x2's and 2x4's I've seen in big-box lumber stores is of lower
                quality than I'd like for tent poles. It's just not straight enough.

                If you have a Lowe's handy, they carry a higher grade of 2x4's that's
                been dried much more and I've found to stay very straight, even after
                ripping in half. If you need to do that, perhaps there's someone in your
                area who will share his table saw for a few minutes. (I also understand
                if you choose not to use power tools.) I found it to be well worth the
                small premium they charge.

                Best,
                Oswald
              • AqA WyrdWynd
                yhey sel two in dia   closet rods in wood though pete have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!! ... From: Oswald Frank
                Message 7 of 17 , Mar 18 8:17 AM
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                  yhey sel two in dia   closet rods in wood though

                  pete

                  have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!



                  --- On Thu, 3/18/10, Oswald Frank <oswald@...> wrote:

                  From: Oswald Frank <oswald@...>
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re:Tent poles
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 11:16 AM

                  Most 2x2's and 2x4's I've seen in big-box lumber stores is of lower
                  quality than I'd like for tent poles. It's just not straight enough.

                  If you have a Lowe's handy, they carry a higher grade of 2x4's that's
                  been dried much more and I've found to stay very straight, even after
                  ripping in half. If you need to do that, perhaps there's someone in your
                  area who will share his table saw for a few minutes. (I also understand
                  if you choose not to use power tools.) I found it to be well worth the
                  small premium they charge.

                  Best,
                  Oswald



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                • Royce
                  Let me just add to the list, from my personal experience with my Panther. I went to home depot, and the 2x2 s were a lower quality, period. Next time I have
                  Message 8 of 17 , Mar 18 11:57 AM
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                    Let me just add to the list, from my personal experience with my Panther…

                     

                    I went to home depot, and the 2x2’s were a lower quality, period.  Next time I have the money, I’m going to my local lumber store and get the good stuff.  Also, I learned that with the panther, standard 6’ walls do not translate to standard 6’ 2x2’s.  Finally, on the aluminum rod issue, Threaded rod, will also do the trick, and as a bonus, you can make or get finials that will screw on and help hold the roof down and look nice too.

                     

                    We cut all and drilled all my poles with standard home hand & power tools, in a friends driveway.

                     

                    Bercilak

                     

                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Electric Wolf
                    Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 1:58 AM
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Tent poles

                     

                     

                    Hello all,

                    I'm looking to get a large order of tent poles.
                    Since I am working in my living room with hand tools, I don't
                    see myself making my own in time for Lilies but if it is possible
                    I would be willing to give it a try...
                    I've looked at Panther Primitives since they are the only ones
                    I have found so far that offer pre-made ones, but that is
                    prohibitive...

                    Basically, any words of encouragement or locations to find pre-made
                    ones or even offers for hire would be a big help.

                    David "Wolf" Mc.
                    Overwhelmed opener of Pandora's box...

                  • Alaxandr MacLochloinn
                    Good Evening For the center pole: I had length restrictions in travel so, for my round, I used back to back 2x4s staggered and bolted. Left side had a 4 foot
                    Message 9 of 17 , Mar 18 2:27 PM
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                      Good Evening

                      For the center pole:

                      I had length restrictions in travel so, for my round, I used back to back 2x4s staggered and bolted. Left side had a 4 foot piece, then a 7 foot piece.  Right side had the 7 foot piece, then the 4 foot.  Drill through both and run a 1/4" bolt all the way through.  The pole then breaks down into four pieces which all fit in the van.

                      As mentioned elsewhere, the top ends were rounded off with a rasp to eliminate pressure points.  I also drilled a hole between the two boards for the pennant dowel (which doubles as the spike to hold the three windropes.)

                      YIS,
                       Alaxandr



                       
                      Pictures: http://www.wordfame.org
                      Merchants Row: http://www.merchantsrow.org
                      Youth Combat: http://youthfighters.eastkingdom.org/
                      Northern Lights A&S: http://scanorthernlights.org/



                      From: Oswald Frank <oswald@...>
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 11:16:06 AM
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re:Tent poles

                       

                      Most 2x2's and 2x4's I've seen in big-box lumber stores is of lower
                      quality than I'd like for tent poles. It's just not straight enough.

                      If you have a Lowe's handy, they carry a higher grade of 2x4's that's
                      been dried much more and I've found to stay very straight, even after
                      ripping in half. If you need to do that, perhaps there's someone in your
                      area who will share his table saw for a few minutes. (I also understand
                      if you choose not to use power tools.) I found it to be well worth the
                      small premium they charge.

                      Best,
                      Oswald


                    • Electric Wolf
                      I ve heard that I never want to use a closet rod for anything vertically supported but if your experience says otherwise I m willing to give it a shot. *hands
                      Message 10 of 17 , Mar 18 8:20 PM
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                        I've heard that I never want to use a closet rod for anything vertically supported but if your experience says otherwise I'm willing to give it a shot.

                        *hands back an extinguished hamster*

                        On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, AqA WyrdWynd <wyrdwynd@...> wrote:


                        yhey sel two in dia   closet rods in wood though

                        pete

                        have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!



                        --- On Thu, 3/18/10, Oswald Frank <oswald@...> wrote:

                        From: Oswald Frank <oswald@...>
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re:Tent poles
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 11:16 AM


                        Most 2x2's and 2x4's I've seen in big-box lumber stores is of lower
                        quality than I'd like for tent poles. It's just not straight enough.

                        If you have a Lowe's handy, they carry a higher grade of 2x4's that's
                        been dried much more and I've found to stay very straight, even after
                        ripping in half. If you need to do that, perhaps there's someone in your
                        area who will share his table saw for a few minutes. (I also understand
                        if you choose not to use power tools.) I found it to be well worth the
                        small premium they charge.

                        Best,
                        Oswald



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                        --
                        David "Wolf" Mc.
                        Nullum beneficium inpune stat.
                      • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                        I use closet rod for banner poles and occasionally as a closet rod. For tent poles I by 2x10 or 2x12 s and rip them down to size. The yellow pine that I get
                        Message 11 of 17 , Mar 19 6:51 AM
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                          I use closet rod for banner poles and occasionally
                          as a closet rod.

                          For tent poles I by 2x10 or 2x12's and rip them
                          down to size. The yellow pine that I get that size
                          board in locally is stronger that the fir or what ever
                          else they use for the 2x4 and 2x6's. and is usually
                          a better grade of wood... I do sort through the
                          stack a little to pick nice looking boards too.

                          Though I am considering making beefier poles
                          for the corners of my 18x18 pavilion. There is
                          a lot of stress on the corner poles as you are 
                          first setting it up. Once it is up and you have a few 
                          more poles it's not too bad. I'm probably over 
                          engineering it..... 


                           
                          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                          Aude Aliquid Dignum
                          ' Dare Something Worthy '



                          From: Electric Wolf <elecwolf@...>
                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 11:20:42 PM
                          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re:Tent poles

                           

                          I've heard that I never want to use a closet rod for anything vertically supported but if your experience says otherwise I'm willing to give it a shot.

                          *hands back an extinguished hamster*

                          On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, AqA WyrdWynd <wyrdwynd@yahoo. com> wrote:


                          yhey sel two in dia   closet rods in wood though

                          pete

                          have at ye with a flock of flaming yodeling hamsters !!!



                          --- On Thu, 3/18/10, Oswald Frank <oswald@idlelion. net> wrote:

                          From: Oswald Frank <oswald@idlelion. net>
                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re:Tent poles
                          To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                          Date: Thursday, March 18, 2010, 11:16 AM


                          Most 2x2's and 2x4's I've seen in big-box lumber stores is of lower
                          quality than I'd like for tent poles. It's just not straight enough.

                          If you have a Lowe's handy, they carry a higher grade of 2x4's that's
                          been dried much more and I've found to stay very straight, even after
                          ripping in half. If you need to do that, perhaps there's someone in your
                          area who will share his table saw for a few minutes. (I also understand
                          if you choose not to use power tools.) I found it to be well worth the
                          small premium they charge.

                          Best,
                          Oswald



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                          --
                          David "Wolf" Mc.
                          Nullum beneficium inpune stat.

                        • duncan_of_carmarthen
                          I ve been following the thread for a little bit. I have some basic tools (table saw, circular saw, orbital sander, router, drill, etc) and I m very fortunate
                          Message 12 of 17 , Mar 19 8:20 AM
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                            I've been following the thread for a little bit. I have some basic tools (table saw, circular saw, orbital sander, router, drill, etc) and I'm very fortunate to have a garage, so I have a little room to work with. My question is.. I have a friend that has a day pavilion that they use at the list field. They would like to add side walls to it, and were looking at oak poles. I have not been able to find 2x2 or 2x4 oak lumber. I have, however, located some 1x2. What are the thoughts to the strength of gluing 2 together to get a 2x2? (Ok, actually 1 5/8x 1 5/8.. but you get the picture) and using a dowel or screw to help hold them together? Plan on cutting them into octagon shapes. I'm looking at 4 straight 72", and 3 at 109".. the 109" will be broken down to 2 poles per `big' pole. Not sure yet how I'm going to combine.. sleeve, staggered construction, etc.
                            The walls will be made out of canvas, sides at maybe 4-5' deep, and 15'-ish wide. Poles in the 4 corners, 3 in the center. I can probably convince them to add 1 more along the back side. I like the idea of all-thread pins to be able to screw on a finial, as well as rounding the end to prevent sharp stress points on the canvas.
                            Would the glued 1x2 (making roughly 2x2) oak be strong enough to weather a few seasons as the support poles for the canvas side walls? I'm thinking so, just don't want to go through all the effort of that, to have them break the first time used.. during the list!.

                            Thank you

                            Ld. Duncan of Carmarthen
                            Northern Ansteorra

                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Electric Wolf" <elecwolf@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello all,
                            >
                            > I'm looking to get a large order of tent poles.
                            > Since I am working in my living room with hand tools, I don't
                            > see myself making my own in time for Lilies but if it is possible
                            > I would be willing to give it a try...
                            > I've looked at Panther Primitives since they are the only ones
                            > I have found so far that offer pre-made ones, but that is
                            > prohibitive...
                            >
                          • brother_wm
                            ... I have two nearby outfits that make custom cabinets and also do wood floors. Ask if you can have at their burn pile. I regularly get 3/4 to 1 by up to 3
                            Message 13 of 17 , Mar 19 8:40 AM
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                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "duncan_of_carmarthen" <rdavis1971@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I've been following the thread for a little bit. I have some basic tools {snip}>
                              > Ld. Duncan of Carmarthen
                              > Northern Ansteorra
                              >

                              I have two nearby outfits that make custom cabinets and also do wood floors.

                              Ask if you can have at their burn pile. I regularly get 3/4" to 1" by up to 3 inch oak, maple and poplar in 8' lengths. A lot of times the pieces have a taper to it, but for tent poles, that is OK when you glue-up 6 or 8 to make a 4" diameter pole.

                              Free is ALWAYS good.

                              RileyG
                            • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                              unless you can get a really good flat surface for the glue joint you are gonna want to use screws. But oak is probably more than you need unless it is for the
                              Message 14 of 17 , Mar 19 8:41 AM
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                                unless you can get a really good flat surface for 
                                the glue joint you are gonna want to use screws.

                                But oak is probably more than you need unless
                                it is for the visual appearance of it

                                Ripping down a 2x12 or 2x10 for the poles would 
                                strong enough and a LOT cheaper
                                 
                                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                ' Dare Something Worthy '



                                From: duncan_of_carmarthen <rdavis1971@...>
                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Fri, March 19, 2010 11:20:55 AM
                                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Tent poles

                                 

                                I've been following the thread for a little bit. I have some basic tools (table saw, circular saw, orbital sander, router, drill, etc) and I'm very fortunate to have a garage, so I have a little room to work with. My question is.. I have a friend that has a day pavilion that they use at the list field. They would like to add side walls to it, and were looking at oak poles. I have not been able to find 2x2 or 2x4 oak lumber. I have, however, located some 1x2. What are the thoughts to the strength of gluing 2 together to get a 2x2? (Ok, actually 1 5/8x 1 5/8.. but you get the picture) and using a dowel or screw to help hold them together? Plan on cutting them into octagon shapes. I'm looking at 4 straight 72", and 3 at 109".. the 109" will be broken down to 2 poles per `big' pole. Not sure yet how I'm going to combine.. sleeve, staggered construction, etc.
                                The walls will be made out of canvas, sides at maybe 4-5' deep, and 15'-ish wide. Poles in the 4 corners, 3 in the center. I can probably convince them to add 1 more along the back side. I like the idea of all-thread pins to be able to screw on a finial, as well as rounding the end to prevent sharp stress points on the canvas.
                                Would the glued 1x2 (making roughly 2x2) oak be strong enough to weather a few seasons as the support poles for the canvas side walls? I'm thinking so, just don't want to go through all the effort of that, to have them break the first time used.. during the list!.

                                Thank you

                                Ld. Duncan of Carmarthen
                                Northern Ansteorra

                                --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Electric Wolf" <elecwolf@.. .> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hello all,
                                >
                                > I'm looking to get a large order of tent poles.
                                > Since I am working in my living room with hand tools, I don't
                                > see myself making my own in time for Lilies but if it is possible
                                > I would be willing to give it a try...
                                > I've looked at Panther Primitives since they are the only ones
                                > I have found so far that offer pre-made ones, but that is
                                > prohibitive. ..
                                >


                              • Alex Haugland
                                If you haven t already, check for a real lumber store in your area as opposed to a box hardware store in your area, if you want real hardwood. The cost is
                                Message 15 of 17 , Mar 19 11:17 AM
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                                  If you haven't already, check for a real lumber store in your area as opposed to a box hardware store in your area, if you want real hardwood.  The cost is usually signiticantly cheaper and the quality of the wood is usually better.  They often sell oak and other hardwoods, including other options that may be native to your area or less expensive than oak, even, and just as strong or stronger.   What you'd be after would likely be 8/4 (pronounced eight quarter, meaning 8x 1/4" or ~2" thick) wood that has been surfaced on 2 sides (saves you having to have a jointer and planer to make it flat and you can square up the edges on the table saw).    If you do decide to laminate two pieces of oak 1x2 together, either use a lot of screws or a lot of clamps, if you want them to glue well.  If you're going the clamping route, use some of the 1x2's that you haven't glued yet (or better yet, your first 2 glued-together 2x2's or a pair of 2x4's on edge) to sandwich the two pieces you're gluing together and clamp them down.

                                  Imagine a clamp radiating pressure out from the point where it touches the surface, top and bottom, in a  90 degree cone (or for parallel jaw clamps, a wedge).  The thicker the material on either side of the glue joint, the larger an area of the glue joint that cone covers.   Ideally you want the cones to touch each other on the edges to exert even pressure over the entire piece.  This means, for ideal pressure when gluing two one inch thick pieces, without any cauls (spacer boards) to increase the area of pressure, you need a clamp every two inches.  With a 1" thick caul, that is reduced to a clamp every 4".  A 2" caul = 1 clamp every 6 ", etc.   You do eventually hit a point where the pressure the clamp can exert over the area of the glue joint is too little to get a good joint, but that's usually when you start pushing a foot or more between clamps. 

                                  One other trick you can use to help with clamping pressure and improved glue joints is to examine the wood you buy for any bowing along its length.  Box store lumber (even hardwoods) frequently is warped from poor drying and storage.  To use that warp to your advantage, if two pieces have a bow to them,  glue them together such that when they touch on the ends, they bow out in the middle and don't touch.  Start clamping them in the middle and work your way to the outsides.  As you clamp them together, the bow in the wood exerts pressure on the ends forcing them together and improving the quality of your finished glue joint.

                                  From personal experience, with all-thread for the pins, make the length of you pins just slightly longer than the minimum needed to clear the canvas and the nut glued inside or to the finial.  It can take forever to set up and tear down if you have to sit spinning the finials trying to get everything screwed down in place. 

                                  --Alysaundre Weldon d'Ath
                                  Barony of Adiantum, An Tir

                                  duncan_of_carmarthen wrote:
                                   

                                  I've been following the thread for a little bit. I have some basic tools (table saw, circular saw, orbital sander, router, drill, etc) and I'm very fortunate to have a garage, so I have a little room to work with. My question is.. I have a friend that has a day pavilion that they use at the list field. They would like to add side walls to it, and were looking at oak poles. I have not been able to find 2x2 or 2x4 oak lumber. I have, however, located some 1x2. What are the thoughts to the strength of gluing 2 together to get a 2x2? (Ok, actually 1 5/8x 1 5/8.. but you get the picture) and using a dowel or screw to help hold them together? Plan on cutting them into octagon shapes. I'm looking at 4 straight 72", and 3 at 109".. the 109" will be broken down to 2 poles per `big' pole. Not sure yet how I'm going to combine.. sleeve, staggered construction, etc.
                                  The walls will be made out of canvas, sides at maybe 4-5' deep, and 15'-ish wide. Poles in the 4 corners, 3 in the center. I can probably convince them to add 1 more along the back side. I like the idea of all-thread pins to be able to screw on a finial, as well as rounding the end to prevent sharp stress points on the canvas.
                                  Would the glued 1x2 (making roughly 2x2) oak be strong enough to weather a few seasons as the support poles for the canvas side walls? I'm thinking so, just don't want to go through all the effort of that, to have them break the first time used.. during the list!.

                                  Thank you

                                  Ld. Duncan of Carmarthen
                                  Northern Ansteorra

                                  --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "Electric Wolf" <elecwolf@.. .> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello all,
                                  >
                                  > I'm looking to get a large order of tent poles.
                                  > Since I am working in my living room with hand tools, I don't
                                  > see myself making my own in time for Lilies but if it is possible
                                  > I would be willing to give it a try...
                                  > I've looked at Panther Primitives since they are the only ones
                                  > I have found so far that offer pre-made ones, but that is
                                  > prohibitive. ..
                                  >


                                • powell.sean@comcast.net
                                  I have actually bought red-oak 2x4 s at my local Home Depot. unlike some my local one has a good selection of wood where as I go to Lowes for flooring,
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Mar 19 11:29 AM
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                                    I have actually bought red-oak 2x4's at my local Home Depot. unlike some my local one has a good selection of wood where as I go to Lowes for flooring, lightfixtures and more decorating type stuff.

                                     

                                    If you pay attention to reverse the grain direction then a laminated 2x2 is actually more dimensionally stable then a solid 2x2. It is also less prone to splitting as the split will not cross the glue boundary. A lot of what looks like solid craftman furniture is made from 4 pieces of 1/4 sawn oak that are milled into trapazoids and then glued to a 5th interior square piece. This is the only way to get a cross radial grain structure on all 4 sides instead of just 2.

                                     

                                    For laminating an oak table top you would want perfectly flat and straight edges which would require a joiner. For something as flexible as 1x2 you could screw it together but then the screws would show. I would do it with a F**k-load of clamps. If you take a piece of heavy plywood and screw a STRAIGHT 2x4 to it and another mostly straight one 1.75 inches away then you could line it with wax paper (incase the glue drips you don't want to glue your post to the form) and then use pairs of shims to squeeze the 2 boards to the straight 2x4 and make a laminated pole. This is often done when laminating boards into making an arch but your arch is straight.

                                     

                                    Now that I think of it you could also take 2 piece of angle iron, a whole bunch of laminated pole pairs and 1 good bar clamp for every 9-12" of pole length and clamp a bunch as a unit. This is similar to laying up a butcher-block table-top out of poles. It does help if you run each one through a planer first to be certain you don't have any thin sections.

                                     

                                    Generally though I've had good luck with cheap 2x2's. When I have ripped 2x4's there is invariable a knot someplace that turns half of it into kindling. At that point I'd rather just pick out good 2x2's (Locally that means Lowes, my Home Depot doesn't cary 2x2's except in pressure treated and those ALWAYS warp)

                                     

                                    I have also found that painting them does a lot to reduce warpage. YMMV.

                                     

                                    Good luck!

                                    Sean

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "duncan_of_carmarthen" <rdavis1971@...>
                                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, March 19, 2010 11:20:55 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
                                    Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Tent poles

                                    I've been following the thread for a little bit.  I have some basic tools (table saw, circular saw, orbital sander, router, drill, etc) and I'm very fortunate to have a garage, so I have a little room to work with.  My question is.. I have a friend that has a day pavilion that they use at the list field.  They would like to add side walls to it, and were looking at oak poles.  I have not been able to find 2x2 or 2x4 oak lumber.  I have, however, located some 1x2.  What are the thoughts to the strength of gluing 2 together to get a 2x2?  (Ok, actually 1 5/8x 1 5/8.. but you get the picture) and using a dowel or screw to help hold them together?  Plan on cutting them into octagon shapes.  I'm looking at 4 straight 72", and 3 at 109".. the 109" will be broken down to 2 poles per `big' pole.  Not sure yet how I'm going to combine.. sleeve, staggered construction, etc.
                                    The walls will be made out of canvas, sides at maybe 4-5' deep, and 15'-ish wide.  Poles in the 4 corners, 3 in the center.  I can probably convince them to add 1 more along the back side.  I like the idea of all-thread pins to be able to screw on a finial, as well as rounding the end to prevent sharp stress points on the canvas.
                                    Would the glued 1x2 (making roughly 2x2) oak be strong enough to weather a few seasons as the support poles for the canvas side walls?  I'm thinking so, just don't want to go through all the effort of that, to have them break the first time used.. during the list!.

                                    Thank you

                                    Ld. Duncan of Carmarthen
                                    Northern Ansteorra

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