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RE: [MedievalSawdust] Mastermyr chest

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  • Bill McNutt
    Those compound angles are more complicated than they look at first glance, and should not be approached casually. My chest is two inches smaller in all
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 18, 2009
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      Those compound angles are more complicated than they look at first glance, and should not be approached “casually.”  My chest is two inches smaller in all direction.  The joinery was so gappy and ugly I had to go back and re-cut everything.  Instead of measure twice – cut once, go with measure twice – then check with the bevel-gauge again.  And then dry fit before cutting the next joint (where possible). 

       

      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
      Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 11:34 AM
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Mastermyr chest

       

       

      Anyone here done a mastermry reproduction/inspired chest?

      What did you learn in the process?
      What advice would you offer before I start?
      Anything surprise you?
      Anything not work like you thought it would?

      Thanks in advance!

       

      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

      Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '

       

       

    • conradh@efn.org
      ... I ve never tried an actual replica of the Mastermyr box, but after seeing it I used the Norse half-lap (or whatever the official name for the corner
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 18, 2009
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        On Sun, October 18, 2009 8:33 am, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart wrote:
        > Anyone here done a mastermry reproduction/inspired chest?
        >
        >
        > What did you learn in the process?
        > What advice would you offer before I start?
        > Anything surprise you?
        > Anything not work like you thought it would?

        I've never tried an actual replica of the Mastermyr box, but after seeing
        it I used the "Norse half-lap" (or whatever the official name for the
        corner joint is) on several wooden chests. I like it, enough to use it on
        a tool tote and at least one other non-period box over the years.

        What I do have considerable practice with is the hardware. I really like
        Norse ironwork (making a replica Oseberg lamp is what got me into
        blacksmithing in the first place, lo these 35 years ago) and I've made
        four Mastermyr-style chest locks and plenty of the hook-and-eye style
        hinges as well. I can supply irons for your replica, or coach you through
        making your own if you prefer.

        The locks are really cool. One key in the middle opens both hasps
        simultaneously. You insert the key and work it into place--tolerances are
        loose and the key is fairly unconfined in there, so finding the proper
        place for it is not so automatic as it is with a modern lock. When the
        key is seated, it's turned ninety degrees, which brings its teeth past the
        wards and through the sliding plate, where they lift the locksprings clear
        of the tab that's bent up on the end of the plate. Now the key becomes an
        operating handle, as you use it to slide the whole lockplate and lockbar
        sideways. This pulls the tips of the lockbar free of the hasps, and they
        pop open. The lid is liftable now. Locking is the reverse: close the lid
        and push the hasps home, then use the key to slide the bar back until you
        hear the springs click down.

        Tre Tryckare's book _The Vikings_ has a three-panel drawing showing the
        operation, which is what I used to build my first copy. Look at it if you
        have it, but do realize that they screwed up and printed the illo upside
        down and inside out. It doesn't match the captions at all, but it finally
        made sense once you realized that you were standing on your head inside
        the box.

        I assume you have, or have access to, Arwidsson and Berg's _The Mastermyr
        Find_? It has some archaeological drawings, descriptions and photos. My
        copy is English language but printed in Stockholm; I've heard there's been
        another edition made over here at some point. If you don't have the book
        or have trouble getting it, I could copy you the relevant info.

        Ulfhedinn
      • Brian Wagner
        My camp chests are all Mastermyr inspired to a degree. I too like the half-lap corner joint. I also like the out-sloping chest ends. I kept the from & back
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 19, 2009
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          My camp chests are all Mastermyr inspired to a degree.  I too like the half-lap corner joint.  I also like the out-sloping chest ends.  I kept the from & back vertical, which avoids the compound angles, and just used a flat 3/4" plan lid rather than a thicker lid with hollowed interior.  I have about 7 in various lengths that I use regularly - I made them all the same height so that they make a nice packing platform in the bottom of my trailer.  I had to break down and add rope handles to the one for my tools, as it was a bit heavy to lift without.  Reminds me, I need to make another for the lathe stuff...

          Hrothgar Fiscabana
          Kingdom of Gleann Abhann


          On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 1:10 AM, <conradh@...> wrote:
           

          On Sun, October 18, 2009 8:33 am, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart wrote:
          > Anyone here done a mastermry reproduction/inspired chest?
          >
          >
          > What did you learn in the process?
          > What advice would you offer before I start?
          > Anything surprise you?
          > Anything not work like you thought it would?

          I've never tried an actual replica of the Mastermyr box, but after seeing
          it I used the "Norse half-lap" (or whatever the official name for the
          corner joint is) on several wooden chests. I like it, enough to use it on
          a tool tote and at least one other non-period box over the years.

          What I do have considerable practice with is the hardware. I really like
          Norse ironwork (making a replica Oseberg lamp is what got me into
          blacksmithing in the first place, lo these 35 years ago) and I've made
          four Mastermyr-style chest locks and plenty of the hook-and-eye style
          hinges as well. I can supply irons for your replica, or coach you through
          making your own if you prefer.

          The locks are really cool. One key in the middle opens both hasps
          simultaneously. You insert the key and work it into place--tolerances are
          loose and the key is fairly unconfined in there, so finding the proper
          place for it is not so automatic as it is with a modern lock. When the
          key is seated, it's turned ninety degrees, which brings its teeth past the
          wards and through the sliding plate, where they lift the locksprings clear
          of the tab that's bent up on the end of the plate. Now the key becomes an
          operating handle, as you use it to slide the whole lockplate and lockbar
          sideways. This pulls the tips of the lockbar free of the hasps, and they
          pop open. The lid is liftable now. Locking is the reverse: close the lid
          and push the hasps home, then use the key to slide the bar back until you
          hear the springs click down.

          Tre Tryckare's book _The Vikings_ has a three-panel drawing showing the
          operation, which is what I used to build my first copy. Look at it if you
          have it, but do realize that they screwed up and printed the illo upside
          down and inside out. It doesn't match the captions at all, but it finally
          made sense once you realized that you were standing on your head inside
          the box.

          I assume you have, or have access to, Arwidsson and Berg's _The Mastermyr
          Find_? It has some archaeological drawings, descriptions and photos. My
          copy is English language but printed in Stockholm; I've heard there's been
          another edition made over here at some point. If you don't have the book
          or have trouble getting it, I could copy you the relevant info.

          Ulfhedinn


        • Bill McNutt
          Putting handles on it also reduces the amount of kvetching you get from household members. From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 19, 2009
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            Putting handles on it also reduces the amount of kvetching you get from household members. 

             

            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Wagner
            Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:02 AM
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Mastermyr chest

             

             

            My camp chests are all Mastermyr inspired to a degree.  I too like the half-lap corner joint.  I also like the out-sloping chest ends.  I kept the from & back vertical, which avoids the compound angles, and just used a flat 3/4" plan lid rather than a thicker lid with hollowed interior.  I have about 7 in various lengths that I use regularly - I made them all the same height so that they make a nice packing platform in the bottom of my trailer.  I had to break down and add rope handles to the one for my tools, as it was a bit heavy to lift without.  Reminds me, I need to make another for the lathe stuff...


            Hrothgar Fiscabana

            Kingdom of Gleann Abhann

            On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 1:10 AM, <conradh@...> wrote:

             

            On Sun, October 18, 2009 8:33 am, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart wrote:

            > Anyone here done a mastermry reproduction/inspired chest?
            >
            >
            > What did you learn in the process?
            > What advice would you offer before I start?
            > Anything surprise you?
            > Anything not work like you thought it would?

            I've never tried an actual replica of the Mastermyr box, but after seeing
            it I used the "Norse half-lap" (or whatever the official name for the
            corner joint is) on several wooden chests. I like it, enough to use it on
            a tool tote and at least one other non-period box over the years.

            What I do have considerable practice with is the hardware. I really like
            Norse ironwork (making a replica Oseberg lamp is what got me into
            blacksmithing in the first place, lo these 35 years ago) and I've made
            four Mastermyr-style chest locks and plenty of the hook-and-eye style
            hinges as well. I can supply irons for your replica, or coach you through
            making your own if you prefer.

            The locks are really cool. One key in the middle opens both hasps
            simultaneously. You insert the key and work it into place--tolerances are
            loose and the key is fairly unconfined in there, so finding the proper
            place for it is not so automatic as it is with a modern lock. When the
            key is seated, it's turned ninety degrees, which brings its teeth past the
            wards and through the sliding plate, where they lift the locksprings clear
            of the tab that's bent up on the end of the plate. Now the key becomes an
            operating handle, as you use it to slide the whole lockplate and lockbar
            sideways. This pulls the tips of the lockbar free of the hasps, and they
            pop open. The lid is liftable now. Locking is the reverse: close the lid
            and push the hasps home, then use the key to slide the bar back until you
            hear the springs click down.

            Tre Tryckare's book _The Vikings_ has a three-panel drawing showing the
            operation, which is what I used to build my first copy. Look at it if you
            have it, but do realize that they screwed up and printed the illo upside
            down and inside out. It doesn't match the captions at all, but it finally
            made sense once you realized that you were standing on your head inside
            the box.

            I assume you have, or have access to, Arwidsson and Berg's _The Mastermyr
            Find_? It has some archaeological drawings, descriptions and photos. My
            copy is English language but printed in Stockholm; I've heard there's been
            another edition made over here at some point. If you don't have the book
            or have trouble getting it, I could copy you the relevant info.

            Ulfhedinn

             

          • Eric
            I posted pictures of my Mastermyr replica in the Eirikr s Camp folder in this Yahoo group quite a while back. For the woodwork, I used a couple of the
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 19, 2009
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              I posted pictures of my Mastermyr replica in the "Eirikr's Camp" folder in this Yahoo group quite a while back. For the woodwork, I used a couple of the available articles from the web and kind of synthesized my own version. One point that many people skip from the original is that each type of piece (end, bottom, top and sides) are different thicknesses. My box is primarily red oak (before I knew better) but the top is white oak.

              I made the iron work, including the lock mechanism. All of my information about the lock came from "The Mastermry Find" by Arwidsson and Berg. I will try to take some detail pictures of the workings of the lock and post them here, but that means emptying all of my event tools out first. Now that I mention it, that may not be a bad idea, just to find out what has migrated to the bottom... :)

              If you've got any specific questions, I'll try to answer them.

              In Service to the Dream,
              Eirikr Mjoksiglandi
              Ashgrove, Barony of Angels, Caid

              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...> wrote:
              >
              > Anyone here done a mastermry reproduction/inspired chest?
              >
              > What did you learn in the process?
              > What advice would you offer before I start?
              > Anything surprise you?
              > Anything not work like you thought it would?
              >
              > Thanks in advance!
              >
              > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
              >
              > Aude Aliquid Dignum
              > ' Dare Something Worthy '
              >
            • Brian Wagner
              Just wish I could find early period documentation for rope handled chests. Even a chest with a couple holes in each end... Hrothgar / Brian
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 19, 2009
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                Just wish I could find early period documentation for rope handled chests.  Even a chest with a couple holes in each end...
                 
                Hrothgar / Brian


                On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Bill McNutt <mcnutt@...> wrote:
                 

                Putting handles on it also reduces the amount of kvetching you get from household members. 

                 

                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Wagner
                Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 10:02 AM
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Mastermyr chest

                 

                 

                My camp chests are all Mastermyr inspired to a degree.  I too like the half-lap corner joint.  I also like the out-sloping chest ends.  I kept the from & back vertical, which avoids the compound angles, and just used a flat 3/4" plan lid rather than a thicker lid with hollowed interior.  I have about 7 in various lengths that I use regularly - I made them all the same height so that they make a nice packing platform in the bottom of my trailer.  I had to break down and add rope handles to the one for my tools, as it was a bit heavy to lift without.  Reminds me, I need to make another for the lathe stuff...


                Hrothgar Fiscabana

                Kingdom of Gleann Abhann

                On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 1:10 AM, <conradh@...> wrote:

                 

                On Sun, October 18, 2009 8:33 am, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart wrote:
                > Anyone here done a mastermry reproduction/inspired chest?
                >
                >
                > What did you learn in the process?
                > What advice would you offer before I start?
                > Anything surprise you?
                > Anything not work like you thought it would?

                I've never tried an actual replica of the Mastermyr box, but after seeing
                it I used the "Norse half-lap" (or whatever the official name for the
                corner joint is) on several wooden chests. I like it, enough to use it on
                a tool tote and at least one other non-period box over the years.

                What I do have considerable practice with is the hardware. I really like
                Norse ironwork (making a replica Oseberg lamp is what got me into
                blacksmithing in the first place, lo these 35 years ago) and I've made
                four Mastermyr-style chest locks and plenty of the hook-and-eye style
                hinges as well. I can supply irons for your replica, or coach you through
                making your own if you prefer.

                The locks are really cool. One key in the middle opens both hasps
                simultaneously. You insert the key and work it into place--tolerances are
                loose and the key is fairly unconfined in there, so finding the proper
                place for it is not so automatic as it is with a modern lock. When the
                key is seated, it's turned ninety degrees, which brings its teeth past the
                wards and through the sliding plate, where they lift the locksprings clear
                of the tab that's bent up on the end of the plate. Now the key becomes an
                operating handle, as you use it to slide the whole lockplate and lockbar
                sideways. This pulls the tips of the lockbar free of the hasps, and they
                pop open. The lid is liftable now. Locking is the reverse: close the lid
                and push the hasps home, then use the key to slide the bar back until you
                hear the springs click down.

                Tre Tryckare's book _The Vikings_ has a three-panel drawing showing the
                operation, which is what I used to build my first copy. Look at it if you
                have it, but do realize that they screwed up and printed the illo upside
                down and inside out. It doesn't match the captions at all, but it finally
                made sense once you realized that you were standing on your head inside
                the box.

                I assume you have, or have access to, Arwidsson and Berg's _The Mastermyr
                Find_? It has some archaeological drawings, descriptions and photos. My
                copy is English language but printed in Stockholm; I've heard there's been
                another edition made over here at some point. If you don't have the book
                or have trouble getting it, I could copy you the relevant info.

                Ulfhedinn

                 


              • Eric
                All of my random Viking 6 board chests have legs from the end boards extending below the bottom board like the Mastermyr. To pick them up, I just reach
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 19, 2009
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                  All of my random Viking 6 board chests have "legs" from the end boards extending below the bottom board like the Mastermyr. To pick them up, I just reach around the front and back and grab the bottom, it works well even with the Mastermyr fully loaded with tools, currently about 55 pounds.

                  Along that line, if you are planning on using the chest as a tool box, the original Mastermyr is surprisingly well sized, I would not scale it up at all. It holds full size hand saws and all sorts of other tools. If the chest was any bigger, it could get unwieldy as it got loaded up with heavy stuff. The hollowed lid really makes a difference, it lightens the empty box and lets you load the box with funny shaped items that wouldn't fit otherwise.

                  I like the fact that it is highly functional and more than "almost" documentable. It's nice item to own, mine was well worth the effort...

                  Eirikr

                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Brian Wagner <hrothgar950@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Just wish I could find early period documentation for rope handled chests.
                  > Even a chest with a couple holes in each end...
                  > Hrothgar / Brian
                  >
                  >
                  > On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Bill McNutt <mcnutt@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Putting handles on it also reduces the amount of kvetching you get from
                  > > household members.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > *From:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
                  > > medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Brian Wagner
                  > > *Sent:* Monday, October 19, 2009 10:02 AM
                  > > *To:* medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  > > *Subject:* Re: [MedievalSawdust] Mastermyr chest
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > My camp chests are all Mastermyr inspired to a degree. I too like the
                  > > half-lap corner joint. I also like the out-sloping chest ends. I kept the
                  > > from & back vertical, which avoids the compound angles, and just used a flat
                  > > 3/4" plan lid rather than a thicker lid with hollowed interior. I have
                  > > about 7 in various lengths that I use regularly - I made them all the same
                  > > height so that they make a nice packing platform in the bottom of my
                  > > trailer. I had to break down and add rope handles to the one for my tools,
                  > > as it was a bit heavy to lift without. Reminds me, I need to make another
                  > > for the lathe stuff...
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hrothgar Fiscabana
                  > >
                  > > Kingdom of Gleann Abhann
                  > >
                • Eric
                  Hrothgar, I have also made about a dozen of Viking 6 board chests, mostly starting with 1x12 pine. Like you I keep the fronts and backs vertical for
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 19, 2009
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                    Hrothgar,

                    I have also made about a dozen of Viking 6 board chests, mostly starting with 1x12 pine. Like you I keep the fronts and backs vertical for simplicity and to keep the interior volume as large as possible. I use a plain 1x12 for the lid too. If I'm in a hurry I just do a full lap joint to simplify the joinery.

                    My latest kick has been to plane the fronts and backs down to 3/8" and the bottom to 1/2". The empty chest is lighter and these simple changes actually increase the interior volume of a 24" long chest more than 10% with no changes to the outside dimension.

                    Eirikr
                    Ashgrove, Barony of Angels, Caid

                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Brian Wagner <hrothgar950@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > My camp chests are all Mastermyr inspired to a degree. I too like the
                    > half-lap corner joint. I also like the out-sloping chest ends. I kept the
                    > from & back vertical, which avoids the compound angles, and just used a flat
                    > 3/4" plan lid rather than a thicker lid with hollowed interior. I have
                    > about 7 in various lengths that I use regularly - I made them all the same
                    > height so that they make a nice packing platform in the bottom of my
                    > trailer. I had to break down and add rope handles to the one for my tools,
                    > as it was a bit heavy to lift without. Reminds me, I need to make another
                    > for the lathe stuff...
                    > Hrothgar Fiscabana
                    > Kingdom of Gleann Abhann
                    >
                    >
                  • Iain mac an Bhaird
                    I built a half-scale version without the fancy hardware a couple years back as a gift to our Royalty. Was pretty straightforward. -Iain
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 19, 2009
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                      I built a half-scale version without the fancy hardware a couple years back as a gift to our Royalty.  Was pretty straightforward.

                      -Iain

                      Anyone here done a mastermry reproduction/inspired chest?
                      What did you learn in the process?
                      What advice would you offer before I start?
                      Anything surprise you?
                      Anything not work like you thought it would?
                      Thanks in advance!
                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                      Aude Aliquid Dignum
                      ' Dare Something Worthy '
                    • conradh@efn.org
                      ... Eirikr is quite right on this one--I ve had a weakness all my life for building boxes that were too large, and then of course filling them. Somehow,
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 20, 2009
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                        On Mon, October 19, 2009 2:09 pm, Eric wrote:
                        > All of my random Viking 6 board chests have "legs" from the end boards
                        > extending below the bottom board like the Mastermyr. To pick them up, I
                        > just reach around the front and back and grab the bottom, it works well
                        > even with the Mastermyr fully loaded with tools, currently about 55
                        > pounds.
                        >
                        > Along that line, if you are planning on using the chest as a tool box,
                        > the original Mastermyr is surprisingly well sized, I would not scale it
                        > up at all. It holds full size hand saws and all sorts of other tools.
                        > If the chest was any bigger, it could get unwieldy as it got loaded up
                        > with heavy stuff. The hollowed lid really makes a difference, it
                        > lightens the empty box and lets you load the box with funny shaped items
                        > that wouldn't fit otherwise.
                        >
                        Eirikr is quite right on this one--I've had a weakness all my life for
                        building boxes that were too large, and then of course filling them.
                        Somehow, though, they seem heavier than they did thirty years ago...

                        I'm trying to reform. I'm going to try to hold my new iron chest for
                        smithy tools at events to under 100 lbs. And if that doesn't work, I'll
                        go metric and try to keep it under fifty kilos.

                        Long enough for a handsaw is a good dimension, so many mundane boxes can't
                        manage that. But if you go for a box that long, it's good to give up on
                        the idea of making it tall enough for a stool or sawing support! Try to
                        include all those functions, and it gets tippy. So you make it deeper
                        front to back...

                        I also try to remember that "bursten" (severe hernia) was a fairly common
                        cause of death for workers in the old Mortality Bills.

                        Ulfhedinn
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