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future use Of authenticity-nazi

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  • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
    As long as we are not making specific attacks on a named individual I do not have a problem with a term like lower case authenticity-nazi under some
    Message 1 of 26 , May 3, 2009
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      As long as we are not making specific attacks on a named individual
      I do not have a problem with a term like lower case authenticity-nazi
      under some circumstances.

      ( a definition found online )

      3. a person who is fanatically dedicated to or seeks to control a specified
      activity, practice, etc.:
      a jazz  nazi who disdains other forms of music; tobacco
      nazis trying to ban smoking.


      Until the SCA adopts a term that means the same thing that everyone
      understands.... we are probably gonna have to live with this.




      We all know what is actually meant by that term and no one can claim that they feel
      that that term has any direct connection to the German Nazi party of WWII
      or is meant to imply that you ( a generalized non-specific 'you' ) agree with those beliefs.

      Does anyone believe that Fred Flinstone was homosexual because the word 'gay' is in the
      Flinstone's theme song....?  ( not trying to be funny, just trying to make a point. )
      One definition of a word does not remove all other possible definitions from use.

      I will ask that given it's possible misinterpretations, that we please try to use another
      term where possible. There are times when a word of  less weight can be applied.
      Authenticity-nazi should be used for the the most extreme examples of the mindset
      of "If it is not period, it is not welcome in my presence" or "If it is not period you are
      wasting your time doing it and it should not be allowed in the SCA."

      Directly insulting a named individual I will not allow.

      Disagreeing with that individual in an articulate manner while explaining
      why you disagree is OK, but remember that we lose inflection with this
      form of communication. So please be careful while disagreeing. We are
      all supposed to be friends here.





      Terms like doodyhead are allowed because I do not think anyone can believe
      that it can ever be meant seriously under any circumstances.
       
      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

      Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '



      From: quailriver <quailriver@...>
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 10:12:56 AM
      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme

      Perhaps it's time for the moderator to step in on this one and make the call.
      Regards,
      Larry C.


    • James Barker
      My biggest problem with the term is it is almost never used in a proper way. So often it is not reserved for people who are trying to control anything but is
      Message 2 of 26 , May 3, 2009
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        My biggest problem with the term is it is almost never used in a proper way. So often it is not reserved for people who are trying to control anything but is used on persons interested in historical knowledge. I have had the old a/n label tossed at me in other forums in the past only for making a post about how something was done historicaly.
         
        I often find the people who use the a/n label themselves are the problem. They are offended by the suggestion they are not doing something right; like it is a moral issue. There is no morality in historical reconstruction only facts and attempts to reconstruct.

        James

         

        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        From: baronconal@...
        Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:53:43 -0700
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] future use Of authenticity-nazi



        As long as we are not making specific attacks on a named individual
        I do not have a problem with a term like lower case authenticity-nazi
        under some circumstances.

        ( a definition found online )

        3. a person who is fanatically dedicated to or seeks to control a specified
        activity, practice, etc.:
        a jazz  nazi who disdains other forms of music; tobacco
        nazis trying to ban smoking.


        Until the SCA adopts a term that means the same thing that everyone
        understands.... we are probably gonna have to live with this.




        We all know what is actually meant by that term and no one can claim that they feel
        that that term has any direct connection to the German Nazi party of WWII
        or is meant to imply that you ( a generalized non-specific 'you' ) agree with those beliefs.

        Does anyone believe that Fred Flinstone was homosexual because the word 'gay' is in the
        Flinstone's theme song....?  ( not trying to be funny, just trying to make a point. )
        One definition of a word does not remove all other possible definitions from use.

        I will ask that given it's possible misinterpretations, that we please try to use another
        term where possible. There are times when a word of  less weight can be applied.
        Authenticity-nazi should be used for the the most extreme examples of the mindset
        of "If it is not period, it is not welcome in my presence" or "If it is not period you are
        wasting your time doing it and it should not be allowed in the SCA."

        Directly insulting a named individual I will not allow.

        Disagreeing with that individual in an articulate manner while explaining
        why you disagree is OK, but remember that we lose inflection with this
        form of communication. So please be careful while disagreeing. We are
        all supposed to be friends here.





        Terms like doodyhead are allowed because I do not think anyone can believe
        that it can ever be meant seriously under any circumstances.
         
        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

        Aude Aliquid Dignum
        ' Dare Something Worthy '



        From: quailriver <quailriver@...>
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 10:12:56 AM
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme

        Perhaps it's time for the moderator to step in on this one and make the call.
        Regards,
        Larry C.







        Hotmail® has a new way to see what's up with your friends. Check it out.
      • Bill McNutt
        Undermines and minimizes what the real Nazi s did, too. Will From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
        Message 3 of 26 , May 3, 2009
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          Undermines and minimizes what the real Nazi’s did, too.

           

          Will

           

          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Johnson
          Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 7:59 AM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme

           




          I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to mass-murdering fascists.

        • Jeff Johnson
          James, I don t know that there is a proper application, other than as a derogatory personal attack, disguised as an attack or grudgewank on Teh Evil
          Message 4 of 26 , May 3, 2009
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            James,

            I don't know that there is a "proper" application, other than as a derogatory personal attack, disguised as an attack or grudgewank on "Teh Evil Oppressors".

            My point wasn't to ask for the group owner to apply the powers of moderation, but for the participants on an open forum to apply self-moderation and refrain from using a term that is offensive, and as Bill points out, trivializes the actions of nazi regime by equating them to a few snarky jerks.

            Jeff/Geoff

            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, James Barker <flonzy@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > My biggest problem with the term is it is almost never used in a proper way. So often it is not reserved for people who are trying to control anything but is used on persons interested in historical knowledge. I have had the old a/n label tossed at me in other forums in the past only for making a post about how something was done historicaly.
            >
            >
            >
            > I often find the people who use the a/n label themselves are the problem. They are offended by the suggestion they are not doing something right; like it is a moral issue. There is no morality in historical reconstruction only facts and attempts to reconstruct.
            >
            > James
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > From: baronconal@...
            > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:53:43 -0700
            > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] future use Of authenticity-nazi
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > As long as we are not making specific attacks on a named individual
            > I do not have a problem with a term like lower case authenticity-nazi
            > under some circumstances.
            >
            > ( a definition found online )
            > 3. a person who is fanatically dedicated to or seeks to control a specified
            > activity, practice, etc.: a jazz nazi who disdains other forms of music; tobacco
            > nazis trying to ban smoking.
            >
            > Until the SCA adopts a term that means the same thing that everyone
            > understands.... we are probably gonna have to live with this.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > We all know what is actually meant by that term and no one can claim that they feel
            > that that term has any direct connection to the German Nazi party of WWII
            > or is meant to imply that you ( a generalized non-specific 'you' ) agree with those beliefs.
            >
            > Does anyone believe that Fred Flinstone was homosexual because the word 'gay' is in the
            > Flinstone's theme song....? ( not trying to be funny, just trying to make a point. )
            > One definition of a word does not remove all other possible definitions from use.
            >
            > I will ask that given it's possible misinterpretations, that we please try to use another
            > term where possible. There are times when a word of less weight can be applied.
            > Authenticity-nazi should be used for the the most extreme examples of the mindset
            > of "If it is not period, it is not welcome in my presence" or "If it is not period you are
            > wasting your time doing it and it should not be allowed in the SCA."
            >
            > Directly insulting a named individual I will not allow.
            >
            > Disagreeing with that individual in an articulate manner while explaining
            > why you disagree is OK, but remember that we lose inflection with this
            > form of communication. So please be careful while disagreeing. We are
            > all supposed to be friends here.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Terms like doodyhead are allowed because I do not think anyone can believe
            > that it can ever be meant seriously under any circumstances.
            >
            > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
            >
            > Aude Aliquid Dignum
            > ' Dare Something Worthy '
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > From: quailriver <quailriver@...>
            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 10:12:56 AM
            > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme
            >
            >
            >
            > Perhaps it's time for the moderator to step in on this one and make the call.
            > Regards,
            > Larry C.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > Hotmail� has a new way to see what's up with your friends.
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          • cuvien1438
            Come on folk, Really! Lord Wilson is right in this matter. Perhaps a bit too polite to say you are all being silly on this point. I m new, o.k., so I don t
            Message 5 of 26 , May 3, 2009
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              Come on folk,

              Really!


              Lord Wilson is right in this matter. Perhaps a bit too polite to say you are all being silly on this point.

              I'm new, o.k., so I don't carry any of the baggage many of you must. So, for whatever it's worth. My opinion is simply that the term is meant for most as a way of describing someone who is not just period, but is so enamored with accuracy that they miss the more important point of having FUN.

              It's nothing more complicated than that. At least not for me. And I might even Hit The Shift Button When I Type The Word Nazi. If that's too much for some of you then perhaps something drastic should be done. Maybe pitchforks or torches, or maybe pitchforks AND torches! That's period isn't it?

              Sincerely,

              C.

              P.S. Maybe you folk should have been warning me that I can't finish a tenon with a chisel. If you had, maybe I wouldn't have a bed rail with a tenon that is all "nazi-ed" up!

              Thanks.
            • leaking pen
              The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement that people follow.
              Message 6 of 26 , May 3, 2009
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                The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the us.
                Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that elected
                Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German presidential
                election, which he then won, then went largely anti-semetic and went
                on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty much killed the party, in
                name at least, else where in the world. But teh word Nazi was used to
                mean , for lack of a better term, anal about something, long before
                world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler or anti-semetism, but to
                FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far off. Very stringent rules,
                forced following of the most stringent application of the rules, no
                exceptions? sounds about right.

                On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                > "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to
                > mass-murdering fascists.
                >
                >
              • James Winkler
                ... extremism, by any name, is still extremism. Tolerance is the only antidote. Chas.
                Message 7 of 26 , May 3, 2009
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                  ... extremism, by any name, is still extremism.  Tolerance is the only antidote.
                   
                  Chas.
                   
                • quailriver
                  ... Wow, that remark is really sickly twisted!
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 3, 2009
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                    >Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                    >to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                    >regard.

                    Wow, that remark is really sickly twisted!





                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, leaking pen <itsatrap@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                    > govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                    > that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the us.
                    > Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                    > to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                    > regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that elected
                    > Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German presidential
                    > election, which he then won, then went largely anti-semetic and went
                    > on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty much killed the party, in
                    > name at least, else where in the world. But teh word Nazi was used to
                    > mean , for lack of a better term, anal about something, long before
                    > world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler or anti-semetism, but to
                    > FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far off. Very stringent rules,
                    > forced following of the most stringent application of the rules, no
                    > exceptions? sounds about right.
                    >
                    > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                    > > "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to
                    > > mass-murdering fascists.
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • leaking pen
                    What? Both groups believe in a very strong moral code, with laws that match, and a heavily governed and controled social situation. I was not trying to be
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 3, 2009
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                      What? Both groups believe in a very strong moral code, with laws that
                      match, and a heavily governed and controled social situation. I was
                      not trying to be insulting, but merely give a modern comparison to
                      that segment of the philosophy of the Nazi party. If we were talking
                      about social welfare, I'd point out that the Nazi parties views on
                      such were very similar to the current Democratic party, in that they
                      believed in a "safety net" for those too old or infirm to work, and
                      several minimums of standard including a minimum wage and profit caps
                      on industries.

                      On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:29 PM, quailriver <quailriver@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >>Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                      >>to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                      >>regard.
                      >
                      > Wow, that remark is really sickly twisted!
                      >
                      > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, leaking pen <itsatrap@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                      >> govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                      >> that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the us.
                      >> Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                      >> to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                      >> regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that elected
                      >> Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German presidential
                      >> election, which he then won, then went largely anti-semetic and went
                      >> on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty much killed the party, in
                      >> name at least, else where in the world. But teh word Nazi was used to
                      >> mean , for lack of a better term, anal about something, long before
                      >> world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler or anti-semetism, but to
                      >> FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far off. Very stringent rules,
                      >> forced following of the most stringent application of the rules, no
                      >> exceptions? sounds about right.
                      >>
                      >> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                      >> > "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to
                      >> > mass-murdering fascists.
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                    • Dianne
                      ... extremism, by any name, is still extremism. Tolerance is the only antidote. Chas. That runs both ways, though. A lot of people who work very hard at
                      Message 10 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                        ... extremism, by any name, is still extremism.  Tolerance is the only antidote.
                         
                        Chas.>>
                         
                        That runs both ways, though. A lot of people who work very hard at accuracy are accused of spoiling the fun for those who are coming for the beer and the party.
                         
                        I'm trying very hard to improve the accuracy of my dress and camp. (And I have a very long way to go yet.) If you ASK me what fabrics you should use for your garb. I'm going to recommend wool and linen. If you ASK me what kind of tent you should buy, I'm going to recommend a pavilion.
                        Not only are they the more accurate choice, they're by far the more comfortable choice.
                         
                        Unless you ask me, though, I'm far too busy working on improving my own impression to have time to worry about yours!
                         
                        Laurensa

                      • avery1415@sbcglobal.net
                        At one level, I agree. On another level, well, I once got to deal with a guy who explained for the whole wide internet to read, that anybody who would (make a
                        Message 11 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                          At one level, I agree.

                          On another level, well, I once got to deal with a guy who explained for the whole wide internet to read, that anybody who would (make a not terribly radical substitution to make their SCA project more durable) was "subhuman". (I wish I was making this up.) No, he hadn't grabbed the bronze ring of fascism and murdered 12 million people, but I wouldn't leave him alone in a room with a pair of jack boots for more than a few minutes.

                          Avery
                        • Hester, Gene
                          Well said. Dante ... From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                            Re: [MedievalSawdust] "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme

                            Well said.
                            Dante

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Mon May 04 04:10:26 2009
                            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme



                            ... extremism, by any name, is still extremism.  Tolerance is the only antidote.

                            Chas.>>

                            That runs both ways, though. A lot of people who work very hard at accuracy are accused of spoiling the fun for those who are coming for the beer and the party.

                            I'm trying very hard to improve the accuracy of my dress and camp. (And I have a very long way to go yet.) If you ASK me what fabrics you should use for your garb. I'm going to recommend wool and linen. If you ASK me what kind of tent you should buy, I'm going to recommend a pavilion.
                            Not only are they the more accurate choice, they're by far the more comfortable choice.

                            Unless you ask me, though, I'm far too busy working on improving my own impression to have time to worry about yours!

                            Laurensa



                          • James Barker
                            WTF does your post have to do with this topic? Beyond that I find it funny that you would say the right is somehow more controlling than the left. The left
                            Message 13 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                              WTF does your post have to do with this topic?
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                               
                              Beyond that I find it funny that you would say the right is somehow more controlling than the left. The left invented politically correct speech (control what you say), they try to control the media (propaganda disguised as real reporting unlike right talk show hosts), they attack the opposition as being unintelligent, they support eugenics, the Nazis were pro union and worker as the left is, and they want socialistic politics.
                               
                              However neither our right or left sides in America are a damn thing like Nazis which is why they are their own category of political thinking.

                              So lets move on
                              James
                               
                               
                               


                               
                              > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              > From: itsatrap@...
                              > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 21:36:29 -0700
                              > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme
                              >
                              > The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                              > govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                              > that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the us.
                              > Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                              > to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                              > regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that elected
                              > Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German presidential
                              > election, which he then won, then went largely anti-semetic and went
                              > on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty much killed the party, in
                              > name at least, else where in the world. But teh word Nazi was used to
                              > mean , for lack of a better term, anal about something, long before
                              > world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler or anti-semetism, but to
                              > FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far off. Very stringent rules,
                              > forced following of the most stringent application of the rules, no
                              > exceptions? sounds about right.
                              >
                              > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                              > > "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to
                              > > mass-murdering fascists.
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
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                            • Barbara
                              Let me say that I believe anyone truly criticizing someone for not being authentic enough is a jerk. And I think that s the best word for them. However, I
                              Message 14 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                                Let me say that I believe anyone truly criticizing someone for not being
                                authentic enough is a jerk. And I think that's the best word for them.

                                However, I would like to point out that being authentic IS fun. I really
                                get upset when people equate 'authentic' with 'not fun.' If it's not your
                                thing, that's fine. Just like if you're not into fighting or weaving or
                                whatever. But don't assume we are not having fun when we try to be as
                                authentic as we can.

                                I only apply my standards to myself, yet I've been called a "nazi" simply
                                for trying to be authentic. Those folks are jerks too. ;-)

                                Mir!
                                Tatjana
                                "It's never too late to be what you might have been."


                                Wolf and Tiger Woodworking
                                http://www.wolfandtiger.com

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "cuvien1438" <cuvien1438@...>
                                To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 10:36 PM
                                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme


                                > Come on folk,
                                >
                                > Really!
                                >
                                >
                                > Lord Wilson is right in this matter. Perhaps a bit too polite to say you
                                > are all being silly on this point.
                                >
                                > I'm new, o.k., so I don't carry any of the baggage many of you must. So,
                                > for whatever it's worth. My opinion is simply that the term is meant for
                                > most as a way of describing someone who is not just period, but is so
                                > enamored with accuracy that they miss the more important point of having
                                > FUN.
                                >
                                > It's nothing more complicated than that. At least not for me. And I might
                                > even Hit The Shift Button When I Type The Word Nazi. If that's too much
                                > for some of you then perhaps something drastic should be done. Maybe
                                > pitchforks or torches, or maybe pitchforks AND torches! That's period
                                > isn't it?
                                >
                                > Sincerely,
                                >
                                > C.
                              • Rebekah
                                I m done. Now I look for the door. RdA
                                Message 15 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                                  I'm done. Now I look for the door.
                                   
                                  RdA
                                • Beau or Steve
                                  Haven t we beaten this horse to death by now? Let s return to our regularly scheduled program. Stefan
                                  Message 16 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                                    Haven't we beaten this horse to death by now? Let's return to our regularly
                                    scheduled program.

                                    Stefan
                                  • leaking pen
                                    The problem that is being discussed is with people who tell other people that they aren t being authentic enough. Its an attitude that comes across similar
                                    Message 17 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                                      The problem that is being discussed is with people who tell other
                                      people that they aren't being authentic enough. Its an attitude that
                                      comes across similar to, ohh, you aren't a "REAL" SCA woodworker
                                      unless you blah. Its an arrogance that if something isn't exactly
                                      right, and can't be documented as "the ways it was" then its
                                      worthless for all purposes. THAT's the attitude under discussion.
                                      I'm thankfull that very few people actually seem to have this
                                      attitude, most are just like you and me in that we enjoy being
                                      authentic as possible for the challenge, for the science, for the
                                      research and learning. Unfortunately, as is often the case, the few
                                      extremists tend to be very very loud and vocal.

                                      On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Barbara <tiger@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Let me say that I believe anyone truly criticizing someone for not being
                                      > authentic enough is a jerk. And I think that's the best word for them.
                                      >
                                      > However, I would like to point out that being authentic IS fun. I really
                                      > get upset when people equate 'authentic' with 'not fun.' If it's not your
                                      > thing, that's fine. Just like if you're not into fighting or weaving or
                                      > whatever. But don't assume we are not having fun when we try to be as
                                      > authentic as we can.
                                      >
                                      > I only apply my standards to myself, yet I've been called a "nazi" simply
                                      > for trying to be authentic. Those folks are jerks too. ;-)
                                      >
                                      > Mir!
                                      > Tatjana
                                      > "It's never too late to be what you might have been."
                                      >
                                      > Wolf and Tiger Woodworking
                                      > http://www.wolfandtiger.com
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: "cuvien1438" <cuvien1438@...>
                                      > To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 10:36 PM
                                      > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme
                                      >
                                      >> Come on folk,
                                      >>
                                      >> Really!
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Lord Wilson is right in this matter. Perhaps a bit too polite to say you
                                      >> are all being silly on this point.
                                      >>
                                      >> I'm new, o.k., so I don't carry any of the baggage many of you must. So,
                                      >> for whatever it's worth. My opinion is simply that the term is meant for
                                      >> most as a way of describing someone who is not just period, but is so
                                      >> enamored with accuracy that they miss the more important point of having
                                      >> FUN.
                                      >>
                                      >> It's nothing more complicated than that. At least not for me. And I might
                                      >> even Hit The Shift Button When I Type The Word Nazi. If that's too much
                                      >> for some of you then perhaps something drastic should be done. Maybe
                                      >> pitchforks or torches, or maybe pitchforks AND torches! That's period
                                      >> isn't it?
                                      >>
                                      >> Sincerely,
                                      >>
                                      >> C.
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                      Yeah, I think we have gone as far with this as we need to and maybe a little too far. Let s agree to disagree and move on. please do not force me to take
                                      Message 18 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                                        Yeah, I think we have gone as far with this as we need to and
                                        maybe a little too far.

                                        Let's agree to disagree and move on.


                                        please do not force me to take stronger action, we have been a
                                        very civil group and I'd like it to stay that way.
                                         
                                        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                        Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                        ' Dare Something Worthy '



                                        From: Beau or Steve <wander7@...>
                                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Monday, May 4, 2009 10:33:54 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme

                                        Haven't we beaten this horse to death by now? Let's return to our regularly
                                        scheduled program.

                                        Stefan


                                      • conradh@efn.org
                                        And even setting current political jabs aside, long before the German Nazi Party got around to truly notorious stuff like running murder factories and starting
                                        Message 19 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                                          And even setting current political jabs aside, long before the German Nazi
                                          Party got around to truly notorious stuff like running murder factories
                                          and starting World War II, it was already well known for being into
                                          intolerance, sucking up to authority, abusing authority they happen to
                                          have themselves, dress codes, elaborate rules and general bad boundaries.
                                          The people (myself definitely included) who find the "Authenticity Nazi"
                                          label appropriate for a certain sort of reinactor have these vices in
                                          mind, not anti-Semitism or militarism.

                                          The "bad boundaries" issue is central here. If you have high standards of
                                          authenticity _for yourself_ there is nothing to criticize and much to
                                          admire, IMHO. Whether this comes from perfectionism, artistic motives,
                                          curiousity or serious experimental archaeology, it's all good.

                                          Where the bad boundaries come in is when people forget that other people
                                          have different motives. The person who really believes that "this really
                                          upsets _me_, so _you_ have to stop doing it right now!" is being utterly
                                          selfish in a way they usually don't even recognize as such.

                                          There's nothing wrong with having your own standards. There's nothing
                                          wrong with using those standards to judge other people, or artifacts,
                                          either. But there's a million miles of difference between having
                                          standards and thinking that having standards gives you the right to push
                                          other people around.

                                          Ulfhedinn





                                          On Sun, May 3, 2009 11:37 pm, leaking pen wrote:
                                          > What? Both groups believe in a very strong moral code, with laws that
                                          > match, and a heavily governed and controled social situation. I was not
                                          > trying to be insulting, but merely give a modern comparison to that
                                          > segment of the philosophy of the Nazi party. If we were talking about
                                          > social welfare, I'd point out that the Nazi parties views on such were
                                          > very similar to the current Democratic party, in that they believed in a
                                          > "safety net" for those too old or infirm to work, and
                                          > several minimums of standard including a minimum wage and profit caps on
                                          > industries.
                                          >
                                          > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:29 PM, quailriver <quailriver@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>> Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                                          >>> to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                                          >>> regard.
                                          >>
                                          >> Wow, that remark is really sickly twisted!
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, leaking pen <itsatrap@...>
                                          >> wrote:
                                          >>
                                          >>>
                                          >>> The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                                          >>> govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                                          >>> that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the
                                          >>> us. Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very
                                          >>> similar to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in
                                          >>> that regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that
                                          >>> elected Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German
                                          >>> presidential election, which he then won, then went largely
                                          >>> anti-semetic and went on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty
                                          >>> much killed the party, in name at least, else where in the world. But
                                          >>> teh word Nazi was used to mean , for lack of a better term, anal about
                                          >>> something, long before world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler
                                          >>> or anti-semetism, but to FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far
                                          >>> off. Very stringent rules, forced following of the most stringent
                                          >>> application of the rules, no exceptions? sounds about right.
                                          >>>
                                          >>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                                          >>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>> I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                                          >>>> "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared
                                          >>>> to mass-murdering fascists.
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>>
                                          >>>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >
                                        • leaking pen
                                          ... and sits down before the mod god smites me hard for continuing to post on the topic::
                                          Message 20 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                                            ::applauds, points with a sign saying, THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY,
                                            and sits down before the mod god smites me hard for continuing to post
                                            on the topic::


                                            On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 1:45 PM, <conradh@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > And even setting current political jabs aside, long before the German Nazi
                                            > Party got around to truly notorious stuff like running murder factories
                                            > and starting World War II, it was already well known for being into
                                            > intolerance, sucking up to authority, abusing authority they happen to
                                            > have themselves, dress codes, elaborate rules and general bad boundaries.
                                            > The people (myself definitely included) who find the "Authenticity Nazi"
                                            > label appropriate for a certain sort of reinactor have these vices in
                                            > mind, not anti-Semitism or militarism.
                                            >
                                            > The "bad boundaries" issue is central here. If you have high standards of
                                            > authenticity _for yourself_ there is nothing to criticize and much to
                                            > admire, IMHO. Whether this comes from perfectionism, artistic motives,
                                            > curiousity or serious experimental archaeology, it's all good.
                                            >
                                            > Where the bad boundaries come in is when people forget that other people
                                            > have different motives. The person who really believes that "this really
                                            > upsets _me_, so _you_ have to stop doing it right now!" is being utterly
                                            > selfish in a way they usually don't even recognize as such.
                                            >
                                            > There's nothing wrong with having your own standards. There's nothing
                                            > wrong with using those standards to judge other people, or artifacts,
                                            > either. But there's a million miles of difference between having
                                            > standards and thinking that having standards gives you the right to push
                                            > other people around.
                                            >
                                            > Ulfhedinn
                                            >
                                            > On Sun, May 3, 2009 11:37 pm, leaking pen wrote:
                                            >> What? Both groups believe in a very strong moral code, with laws that
                                            >> match, and a heavily governed and controled social situation. I was not
                                            >> trying to be insulting, but merely give a modern comparison to that
                                            >> segment of the philosophy of the Nazi party. If we were talking about
                                            >> social welfare, I'd point out that the Nazi parties views on such were
                                            >> very similar to the current Democratic party, in that they believed in a
                                            >> "safety net" for those too old or infirm to work, and
                                            >> several minimums of standard including a minimum wage and profit caps on
                                            >> industries.
                                            >>
                                            >> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:29 PM, quailriver <quailriver@...> wrote:
                                            >>
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>>> Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                                            >>>> to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                                            >>>> regard.
                                            >>>
                                            >>> Wow, that remark is really sickly twisted!
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>> --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, leaking pen <itsatrap@...>
                                            >>> wrote:
                                            >>>
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                                            >>>> govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                                            >>>> that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the
                                            >>>> us. Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very
                                            >>>> similar to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in
                                            >>>> that regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that
                                            >>>> elected Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German
                                            >>>> presidential election, which he then won, then went largely
                                            >>>> anti-semetic and went on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty
                                            >>>> much killed the party, in name at least, else where in the world. But
                                            >>>> teh word Nazi was used to mean , for lack of a better term, anal about
                                            >>>> something, long before world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler
                                            >>>> or anti-semetism, but to FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far
                                            >>>> off. Very stringent rules, forced following of the most stringent
                                            >>>> application of the rules, no exceptions? sounds about right.
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>> I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                                            >>>>> "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared
                                            >>>>> to mass-murdering fascists.
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>>
                                            >>>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>>
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                            Politics...delete...delete...delete Not wood working stuff ...delete delete...delete Picture of table.... save James Cunningham With not enough time to read or
                                            Message 21 of 26 , May 4, 2009
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                                              Politics...delete...delete...delete

                                              Not wood working stuff ...delete delete...delete

                                              Picture of table.... save

                                               

                                              James Cunningham

                                              With not enough time to read or type a response

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