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"Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme

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  • Jeff Johnson
    I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term Authenticity Nazi . It s highly offensive for anyone to be compared to mass-murdering
    Message 1 of 26 , May 3 4:59 AM
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      I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to mass-murdering fascists.
    • julian wilson
      ... From: Jeff Johnson Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Nazi - Insulting in the extreme To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 3
      Message 2 of 26 , May 3 5:35 AM
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        --- On Sun, 3/5/09, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:

        From: Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...>
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, 3 May, 2009, 12:59 PM





        I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to mass-murdering fascists.

        COMMENT

        Hmmm. "Political Correctness" is usually a luxury for those who don't have more serious concerns to occupy their time. Or a tool for those of a very vocal minority seeking their very own 15 minutes of media exposure.

        Having met a number of real "Nazis" postWW2  - [i.e ex- once-carded-Members of the Third Reich's disgraced, discredited, and by-then-banned National Socialist Abeits Partie] - I'd comment that I've found many pf the modern, empathy-lacking "snarks" I've met more-recently, to be even more offensive to my sensibilities in their manners when criticising.

        I have no problem with people who'd use "authenticity-nazi" [with a lower-case"n"] as a description; though for myself I'd rather prefer "snarks". Fewer people find that so offensive!
        My response to such snarks usually begins with "thank you for sharing your ignorance, and  lack of empathy & manners with us!"

        Julian Wilson
      • Samia al-Kaslaania
        Don t forget anti-Semitic too! That s just the term we want thrown around the family-friendly SCA.
        Message 3 of 26 , May 3 6:57 AM
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          Don't forget anti-Semitic too! That's just the term we want thrown
          around the family-friendly SCA.


          Jeff Johnson wrote:
          > I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to mass-murdering fascists.
          >
        • quailriver
          Perhaps it s time for the moderator to step in on this one and make the call. Regards, Larry C.
          Message 4 of 26 , May 3 7:12 AM
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            Perhaps it's time for the moderator to step in on this one and make the call.
            Regards,
            Larry C.



            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, julian wilson <smnco37@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > --- On Sun, 3/5/09, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
            >
            > From: Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...>
            > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme
            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Sunday, 3 May, 2009, 12:59 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to mass-murdering fascists.
            >
            > COMMENT
            >
            > Hmmm. "Political Correctness" is usually a luxury for those who don't have more serious concerns to occupy their time. Or a tool for those of a very vocal minority seeking their very own 15 minutes of media exposure.
            >
            > Having met a number of real "Nazis" postWW2  - [i.e ex- once-carded-Members of the Third Reich's disgraced, discredited, and by-then-banned National Socialist Abeits Partie] - I'd comment that I've found many pf the modern, empathy-lacking "snarks" I've met more-recently, to be even more offensive to my sensibilities in their manners when criticising.
            >
            > I have no problem with people who'd use "authenticity-nazi" [with a lower-case"n"] as a description; though for myself I'd rather prefer "snarks". Fewer people find that so offensive!
            > My response to such snarks usually begins with "thank you for sharing your ignorance, and  lack of empathy & manners with us!"
            >
            > Julian Wilson
            >
          • julian wilson
            ... Perhaps it s time for the moderator to step in on this one and make the call. Regards, Larry C. REPLY Not on my account, Larry. That comment will be my
            Message 5 of 26 , May 3 8:29 AM
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              --- On Sun, 3/5/09, quailriver <quailriver@...> wrote:
              Perhaps it's time for the moderator to step in on this one and make the call.
              Regards,
              Larry C.

              REPLY
              Not on my account, Larry. That comment will be my only one on this thread.

              Let us by all means return to discussing woodworking in a medieval style, to try to emulate the "old Maisters" as well as we can.
              I'm looking forward to seeing the picture of the Cardinal's "scribal desk" merntioned  earlier today. Three years ago, when I was equipping my Lady with the tools of a medieval scribe, I thought I'd tracked down every single online-avilable image of medieval scribes at work, in oirder to make her a "writing slope" in a late-medieval style.
              Somehow I must have missed the Cardinal's desk.
              Julian,
              [now an old Maister himself],
              dwelling in "old" Jersey,
               [which suffered under "real Nazis" from July 2nd, 1940 to May 9th, 1945.]







            • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
              As long as we are not making specific attacks on a named individual I do not have a problem with a term like lower case authenticity-nazi under some
              Message 6 of 26 , May 3 1:53 PM
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                As long as we are not making specific attacks on a named individual
                I do not have a problem with a term like lower case authenticity-nazi
                under some circumstances.

                ( a definition found online )

                3. a person who is fanatically dedicated to or seeks to control a specified
                activity, practice, etc.:
                a jazz  nazi who disdains other forms of music; tobacco
                nazis trying to ban smoking.


                Until the SCA adopts a term that means the same thing that everyone
                understands.... we are probably gonna have to live with this.




                We all know what is actually meant by that term and no one can claim that they feel
                that that term has any direct connection to the German Nazi party of WWII
                or is meant to imply that you ( a generalized non-specific 'you' ) agree with those beliefs.

                Does anyone believe that Fred Flinstone was homosexual because the word 'gay' is in the
                Flinstone's theme song....?  ( not trying to be funny, just trying to make a point. )
                One definition of a word does not remove all other possible definitions from use.

                I will ask that given it's possible misinterpretations, that we please try to use another
                term where possible. There are times when a word of  less weight can be applied.
                Authenticity-nazi should be used for the the most extreme examples of the mindset
                of "If it is not period, it is not welcome in my presence" or "If it is not period you are
                wasting your time doing it and it should not be allowed in the SCA."

                Directly insulting a named individual I will not allow.

                Disagreeing with that individual in an articulate manner while explaining
                why you disagree is OK, but remember that we lose inflection with this
                form of communication. So please be careful while disagreeing. We are
                all supposed to be friends here.





                Terms like doodyhead are allowed because I do not think anyone can believe
                that it can ever be meant seriously under any circumstances.
                 
                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                Aude Aliquid Dignum
                ' Dare Something Worthy '



                From: quailriver <quailriver@...>
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 10:12:56 AM
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme

                Perhaps it's time for the moderator to step in on this one and make the call.
                Regards,
                Larry C.


              • James Barker
                My biggest problem with the term is it is almost never used in a proper way. So often it is not reserved for people who are trying to control anything but is
                Message 7 of 26 , May 3 2:36 PM
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                  My biggest problem with the term is it is almost never used in a proper way. So often it is not reserved for people who are trying to control anything but is used on persons interested in historical knowledge. I have had the old a/n label tossed at me in other forums in the past only for making a post about how something was done historicaly.
                   
                  I often find the people who use the a/n label themselves are the problem. They are offended by the suggestion they are not doing something right; like it is a moral issue. There is no morality in historical reconstruction only facts and attempts to reconstruct.

                  James

                   

                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  From: baronconal@...
                  Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:53:43 -0700
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] future use Of authenticity-nazi



                  As long as we are not making specific attacks on a named individual
                  I do not have a problem with a term like lower case authenticity-nazi
                  under some circumstances.

                  ( a definition found online )

                  3. a person who is fanatically dedicated to or seeks to control a specified
                  activity, practice, etc.:
                  a jazz  nazi who disdains other forms of music; tobacco
                  nazis trying to ban smoking.


                  Until the SCA adopts a term that means the same thing that everyone
                  understands.... we are probably gonna have to live with this.




                  We all know what is actually meant by that term and no one can claim that they feel
                  that that term has any direct connection to the German Nazi party of WWII
                  or is meant to imply that you ( a generalized non-specific 'you' ) agree with those beliefs.

                  Does anyone believe that Fred Flinstone was homosexual because the word 'gay' is in the
                  Flinstone's theme song....?  ( not trying to be funny, just trying to make a point. )
                  One definition of a word does not remove all other possible definitions from use.

                  I will ask that given it's possible misinterpretations, that we please try to use another
                  term where possible. There are times when a word of  less weight can be applied.
                  Authenticity-nazi should be used for the the most extreme examples of the mindset
                  of "If it is not period, it is not welcome in my presence" or "If it is not period you are
                  wasting your time doing it and it should not be allowed in the SCA."

                  Directly insulting a named individual I will not allow.

                  Disagreeing with that individual in an articulate manner while explaining
                  why you disagree is OK, but remember that we lose inflection with this
                  form of communication. So please be careful while disagreeing. We are
                  all supposed to be friends here.





                  Terms like doodyhead are allowed because I do not think anyone can believe
                  that it can ever be meant seriously under any circumstances.
                   
                  Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                  Aude Aliquid Dignum
                  ' Dare Something Worthy '



                  From: quailriver <quailriver@...>
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 10:12:56 AM
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme

                  Perhaps it's time for the moderator to step in on this one and make the call.
                  Regards,
                  Larry C.







                  Hotmail® has a new way to see what's up with your friends. Check it out.
                • Bill McNutt
                  Undermines and minimizes what the real Nazi s did, too. Will From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 3 2:57 PM
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                    Undermines and minimizes what the real Nazi’s did, too.

                     

                    Will

                     

                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Johnson
                    Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 7:59 AM
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [MedievalSawdust] "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme

                     




                    I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to mass-murdering fascists.

                  • Jeff Johnson
                    James, I don t know that there is a proper application, other than as a derogatory personal attack, disguised as an attack or grudgewank on Teh Evil
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 3 6:34 PM
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                      James,

                      I don't know that there is a "proper" application, other than as a derogatory personal attack, disguised as an attack or grudgewank on "Teh Evil Oppressors".

                      My point wasn't to ask for the group owner to apply the powers of moderation, but for the participants on an open forum to apply self-moderation and refrain from using a term that is offensive, and as Bill points out, trivializes the actions of nazi regime by equating them to a few snarky jerks.

                      Jeff/Geoff

                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, James Barker <flonzy@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > My biggest problem with the term is it is almost never used in a proper way. So often it is not reserved for people who are trying to control anything but is used on persons interested in historical knowledge. I have had the old a/n label tossed at me in other forums in the past only for making a post about how something was done historicaly.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I often find the people who use the a/n label themselves are the problem. They are offended by the suggestion they are not doing something right; like it is a moral issue. There is no morality in historical reconstruction only facts and attempts to reconstruct.
                      >
                      > James
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: baronconal@...
                      > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 13:53:43 -0700
                      > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] future use Of authenticity-nazi
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > As long as we are not making specific attacks on a named individual
                      > I do not have a problem with a term like lower case authenticity-nazi
                      > under some circumstances.
                      >
                      > ( a definition found online )
                      > 3. a person who is fanatically dedicated to or seeks to control a specified
                      > activity, practice, etc.: a jazz nazi who disdains other forms of music; tobacco
                      > nazis trying to ban smoking.
                      >
                      > Until the SCA adopts a term that means the same thing that everyone
                      > understands.... we are probably gonna have to live with this.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > We all know what is actually meant by that term and no one can claim that they feel
                      > that that term has any direct connection to the German Nazi party of WWII
                      > or is meant to imply that you ( a generalized non-specific 'you' ) agree with those beliefs.
                      >
                      > Does anyone believe that Fred Flinstone was homosexual because the word 'gay' is in the
                      > Flinstone's theme song....? ( not trying to be funny, just trying to make a point. )
                      > One definition of a word does not remove all other possible definitions from use.
                      >
                      > I will ask that given it's possible misinterpretations, that we please try to use another
                      > term where possible. There are times when a word of less weight can be applied.
                      > Authenticity-nazi should be used for the the most extreme examples of the mindset
                      > of "If it is not period, it is not welcome in my presence" or "If it is not period you are
                      > wasting your time doing it and it should not be allowed in the SCA."
                      >
                      > Directly insulting a named individual I will not allow.
                      >
                      > Disagreeing with that individual in an articulate manner while explaining
                      > why you disagree is OK, but remember that we lose inflection with this
                      > form of communication. So please be careful while disagreeing. We are
                      > all supposed to be friends here.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Terms like doodyhead are allowed because I do not think anyone can believe
                      > that it can ever be meant seriously under any circumstances.
                      >
                      > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                      >
                      > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                      > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > From: quailriver <quailriver@...>
                      > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Sunday, May 3, 2009 10:12:56 AM
                      > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Perhaps it's time for the moderator to step in on this one and make the call.
                      > Regards,
                      > Larry C.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > _________________________________________________________________
                      > Hotmail� has a new way to see what's up with your friends.
                      > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009
                      >
                    • cuvien1438
                      Come on folk, Really! Lord Wilson is right in this matter. Perhaps a bit too polite to say you are all being silly on this point. I m new, o.k., so I don t
                      Message 10 of 26 , May 3 8:36 PM
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                        Come on folk,

                        Really!


                        Lord Wilson is right in this matter. Perhaps a bit too polite to say you are all being silly on this point.

                        I'm new, o.k., so I don't carry any of the baggage many of you must. So, for whatever it's worth. My opinion is simply that the term is meant for most as a way of describing someone who is not just period, but is so enamored with accuracy that they miss the more important point of having FUN.

                        It's nothing more complicated than that. At least not for me. And I might even Hit The Shift Button When I Type The Word Nazi. If that's too much for some of you then perhaps something drastic should be done. Maybe pitchforks or torches, or maybe pitchforks AND torches! That's period isn't it?

                        Sincerely,

                        C.

                        P.S. Maybe you folk should have been warning me that I can't finish a tenon with a chisel. If you had, maybe I wouldn't have a bed rail with a tenon that is all "nazi-ed" up!

                        Thanks.
                      • leaking pen
                        The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement that people follow.
                        Message 11 of 26 , May 3 9:36 PM
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                          The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                          govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                          that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the us.
                          Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                          to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                          regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that elected
                          Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German presidential
                          election, which he then won, then went largely anti-semetic and went
                          on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty much killed the party, in
                          name at least, else where in the world. But teh word Nazi was used to
                          mean , for lack of a better term, anal about something, long before
                          world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler or anti-semetism, but to
                          FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far off. Very stringent rules,
                          forced following of the most stringent application of the rules, no
                          exceptions? sounds about right.

                          On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                          > "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to
                          > mass-murdering fascists.
                          >
                          >
                        • James Winkler
                          ... extremism, by any name, is still extremism. Tolerance is the only antidote. Chas.
                          Message 12 of 26 , May 3 9:41 PM
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                            ... extremism, by any name, is still extremism.  Tolerance is the only antidote.
                             
                            Chas.
                             
                          • quailriver
                            ... Wow, that remark is really sickly twisted!
                            Message 13 of 26 , May 3 11:29 PM
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                              >Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                              >to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                              >regard.

                              Wow, that remark is really sickly twisted!





                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, leaking pen <itsatrap@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                              > govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                              > that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the us.
                              > Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                              > to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                              > regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that elected
                              > Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German presidential
                              > election, which he then won, then went largely anti-semetic and went
                              > on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty much killed the party, in
                              > name at least, else where in the world. But teh word Nazi was used to
                              > mean , for lack of a better term, anal about something, long before
                              > world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler or anti-semetism, but to
                              > FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far off. Very stringent rules,
                              > forced following of the most stringent application of the rules, no
                              > exceptions? sounds about right.
                              >
                              > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                              > > "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to
                              > > mass-murdering fascists.
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • leaking pen
                              What? Both groups believe in a very strong moral code, with laws that match, and a heavily governed and controled social situation. I was not trying to be
                              Message 14 of 26 , May 3 11:37 PM
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                                What? Both groups believe in a very strong moral code, with laws that
                                match, and a heavily governed and controled social situation. I was
                                not trying to be insulting, but merely give a modern comparison to
                                that segment of the philosophy of the Nazi party. If we were talking
                                about social welfare, I'd point out that the Nazi parties views on
                                such were very similar to the current Democratic party, in that they
                                believed in a "safety net" for those too old or infirm to work, and
                                several minimums of standard including a minimum wage and profit caps
                                on industries.

                                On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:29 PM, quailriver <quailriver@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >>Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                                >>to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                                >>regard.
                                >
                                > Wow, that remark is really sickly twisted!
                                >
                                > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, leaking pen <itsatrap@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                                >> govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                                >> that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the us.
                                >> Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                                >> to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                                >> regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that elected
                                >> Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German presidential
                                >> election, which he then won, then went largely anti-semetic and went
                                >> on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty much killed the party, in
                                >> name at least, else where in the world. But teh word Nazi was used to
                                >> mean , for lack of a better term, anal about something, long before
                                >> world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler or anti-semetism, but to
                                >> FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far off. Very stringent rules,
                                >> forced following of the most stringent application of the rules, no
                                >> exceptions? sounds about right.
                                >>
                                >> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >> > I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                                >> > "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to
                                >> > mass-murdering fascists.
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                              • Dianne
                                ... extremism, by any name, is still extremism. Tolerance is the only antidote. Chas. That runs both ways, though. A lot of people who work very hard at
                                Message 15 of 26 , May 4 4:10 AM
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                                  ... extremism, by any name, is still extremism.  Tolerance is the only antidote.
                                   
                                  Chas.>>
                                   
                                  That runs both ways, though. A lot of people who work very hard at accuracy are accused of spoiling the fun for those who are coming for the beer and the party.
                                   
                                  I'm trying very hard to improve the accuracy of my dress and camp. (And I have a very long way to go yet.) If you ASK me what fabrics you should use for your garb. I'm going to recommend wool and linen. If you ASK me what kind of tent you should buy, I'm going to recommend a pavilion.
                                  Not only are they the more accurate choice, they're by far the more comfortable choice.
                                   
                                  Unless you ask me, though, I'm far too busy working on improving my own impression to have time to worry about yours!
                                   
                                  Laurensa

                                • avery1415@sbcglobal.net
                                  At one level, I agree. On another level, well, I once got to deal with a guy who explained for the whole wide internet to read, that anybody who would (make a
                                  Message 16 of 26 , May 4 5:14 AM
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                                    At one level, I agree.

                                    On another level, well, I once got to deal with a guy who explained for the whole wide internet to read, that anybody who would (make a not terribly radical substitution to make their SCA project more durable) was "subhuman". (I wish I was making this up.) No, he hadn't grabbed the bronze ring of fascism and murdered 12 million people, but I wouldn't leave him alone in a room with a pair of jack boots for more than a few minutes.

                                    Avery
                                  • Hester, Gene
                                    Well said. Dante ... From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    Message 17 of 26 , May 4 5:52 AM
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                                      Re: [MedievalSawdust] "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme

                                      Well said.
                                      Dante

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Mon May 04 04:10:26 2009
                                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme



                                      ... extremism, by any name, is still extremism.  Tolerance is the only antidote.

                                      Chas.>>

                                      That runs both ways, though. A lot of people who work very hard at accuracy are accused of spoiling the fun for those who are coming for the beer and the party.

                                      I'm trying very hard to improve the accuracy of my dress and camp. (And I have a very long way to go yet.) If you ASK me what fabrics you should use for your garb. I'm going to recommend wool and linen. If you ASK me what kind of tent you should buy, I'm going to recommend a pavilion.
                                      Not only are they the more accurate choice, they're by far the more comfortable choice.

                                      Unless you ask me, though, I'm far too busy working on improving my own impression to have time to worry about yours!

                                      Laurensa



                                    • James Barker
                                      WTF does your post have to do with this topic? Beyond that I find it funny that you would say the right is somehow more controlling than the left. The left
                                      Message 18 of 26 , May 4 7:14 AM
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                                        WTF does your post have to do with this topic?
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                        Beyond that I find it funny that you would say the right is somehow more controlling than the left. The left invented politically correct speech (control what you say), they try to control the media (propaganda disguised as real reporting unlike right talk show hosts), they attack the opposition as being unintelligent, they support eugenics, the Nazis were pro union and worker as the left is, and they want socialistic politics.
                                         
                                        However neither our right or left sides in America are a damn thing like Nazis which is why they are their own category of political thinking.

                                        So lets move on
                                        James
                                         
                                         
                                         


                                         
                                        > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                        > From: itsatrap@...
                                        > Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 21:36:29 -0700
                                        > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme
                                        >
                                        > The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                                        > govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                                        > that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the us.
                                        > Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                                        > to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                                        > regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that elected
                                        > Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German presidential
                                        > election, which he then won, then went largely anti-semetic and went
                                        > on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty much killed the party, in
                                        > name at least, else where in the world. But teh word Nazi was used to
                                        > mean , for lack of a better term, anal about something, long before
                                        > world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler or anti-semetism, but to
                                        > FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far off. Very stringent rules,
                                        > forced following of the most stringent application of the rules, no
                                        > exceptions? sounds about right.
                                        >
                                        > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                                        > > "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared to
                                        > > mass-murdering fascists.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
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                                        Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.
                                      • Barbara
                                        Let me say that I believe anyone truly criticizing someone for not being authentic enough is a jerk. And I think that s the best word for them. However, I
                                        Message 19 of 26 , May 4 7:27 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Let me say that I believe anyone truly criticizing someone for not being
                                          authentic enough is a jerk. And I think that's the best word for them.

                                          However, I would like to point out that being authentic IS fun. I really
                                          get upset when people equate 'authentic' with 'not fun.' If it's not your
                                          thing, that's fine. Just like if you're not into fighting or weaving or
                                          whatever. But don't assume we are not having fun when we try to be as
                                          authentic as we can.

                                          I only apply my standards to myself, yet I've been called a "nazi" simply
                                          for trying to be authentic. Those folks are jerks too. ;-)

                                          Mir!
                                          Tatjana
                                          "It's never too late to be what you might have been."


                                          Wolf and Tiger Woodworking
                                          http://www.wolfandtiger.com

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "cuvien1438" <cuvien1438@...>
                                          To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 10:36 PM
                                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme


                                          > Come on folk,
                                          >
                                          > Really!
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Lord Wilson is right in this matter. Perhaps a bit too polite to say you
                                          > are all being silly on this point.
                                          >
                                          > I'm new, o.k., so I don't carry any of the baggage many of you must. So,
                                          > for whatever it's worth. My opinion is simply that the term is meant for
                                          > most as a way of describing someone who is not just period, but is so
                                          > enamored with accuracy that they miss the more important point of having
                                          > FUN.
                                          >
                                          > It's nothing more complicated than that. At least not for me. And I might
                                          > even Hit The Shift Button When I Type The Word Nazi. If that's too much
                                          > for some of you then perhaps something drastic should be done. Maybe
                                          > pitchforks or torches, or maybe pitchforks AND torches! That's period
                                          > isn't it?
                                          >
                                          > Sincerely,
                                          >
                                          > C.
                                        • Rebekah
                                          I m done. Now I look for the door. RdA
                                          Message 20 of 26 , May 4 7:29 AM
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                                            I'm done. Now I look for the door.
                                             
                                            RdA
                                          • Beau or Steve
                                            Haven t we beaten this horse to death by now? Let s return to our regularly scheduled program. Stefan
                                            Message 21 of 26 , May 4 7:33 AM
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                                              Haven't we beaten this horse to death by now? Let's return to our regularly
                                              scheduled program.

                                              Stefan
                                            • leaking pen
                                              The problem that is being discussed is with people who tell other people that they aren t being authentic enough. Its an attitude that comes across similar
                                              Message 22 of 26 , May 4 7:49 AM
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                                                The problem that is being discussed is with people who tell other
                                                people that they aren't being authentic enough. Its an attitude that
                                                comes across similar to, ohh, you aren't a "REAL" SCA woodworker
                                                unless you blah. Its an arrogance that if something isn't exactly
                                                right, and can't be documented as "the ways it was" then its
                                                worthless for all purposes. THAT's the attitude under discussion.
                                                I'm thankfull that very few people actually seem to have this
                                                attitude, most are just like you and me in that we enjoy being
                                                authentic as possible for the challenge, for the science, for the
                                                research and learning. Unfortunately, as is often the case, the few
                                                extremists tend to be very very loud and vocal.

                                                On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Barbara <tiger@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Let me say that I believe anyone truly criticizing someone for not being
                                                > authentic enough is a jerk. And I think that's the best word for them.
                                                >
                                                > However, I would like to point out that being authentic IS fun. I really
                                                > get upset when people equate 'authentic' with 'not fun.' If it's not your
                                                > thing, that's fine. Just like if you're not into fighting or weaving or
                                                > whatever. But don't assume we are not having fun when we try to be as
                                                > authentic as we can.
                                                >
                                                > I only apply my standards to myself, yet I've been called a "nazi" simply
                                                > for trying to be authentic. Those folks are jerks too. ;-)
                                                >
                                                > Mir!
                                                > Tatjana
                                                > "It's never too late to be what you might have been."
                                                >
                                                > Wolf and Tiger Woodworking
                                                > http://www.wolfandtiger.com
                                                >
                                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > From: "cuvien1438" <cuvien1438@...>
                                                > To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                                > Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 10:36 PM
                                                > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme
                                                >
                                                >> Come on folk,
                                                >>
                                                >> Really!
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> Lord Wilson is right in this matter. Perhaps a bit too polite to say you
                                                >> are all being silly on this point.
                                                >>
                                                >> I'm new, o.k., so I don't carry any of the baggage many of you must. So,
                                                >> for whatever it's worth. My opinion is simply that the term is meant for
                                                >> most as a way of describing someone who is not just period, but is so
                                                >> enamored with accuracy that they miss the more important point of having
                                                >> FUN.
                                                >>
                                                >> It's nothing more complicated than that. At least not for me. And I might
                                                >> even Hit The Shift Button When I Type The Word Nazi. If that's too much
                                                >> for some of you then perhaps something drastic should be done. Maybe
                                                >> pitchforks or torches, or maybe pitchforks AND torches! That's period
                                                >> isn't it?
                                                >>
                                                >> Sincerely,
                                                >>
                                                >> C.
                                                >
                                                >
                                              • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                                Yeah, I think we have gone as far with this as we need to and maybe a little too far. Let s agree to disagree and move on. please do not force me to take
                                                Message 23 of 26 , May 4 10:40 AM
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                                                  Yeah, I think we have gone as far with this as we need to and
                                                  maybe a little too far.

                                                  Let's agree to disagree and move on.


                                                  please do not force me to take stronger action, we have been a
                                                  very civil group and I'd like it to stay that way.
                                                   
                                                  Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                                  Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                                  ' Dare Something Worthy '



                                                  From: Beau or Steve <wander7@...>
                                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Sent: Monday, May 4, 2009 10:33:54 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: "Nazi" - Insulting in the extreme

                                                  Haven't we beaten this horse to death by now? Let's return to our regularly
                                                  scheduled program.

                                                  Stefan


                                                • conradh@efn.org
                                                  And even setting current political jabs aside, long before the German Nazi Party got around to truly notorious stuff like running murder factories and starting
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , May 4 1:45 PM
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    And even setting current political jabs aside, long before the German Nazi
                                                    Party got around to truly notorious stuff like running murder factories
                                                    and starting World War II, it was already well known for being into
                                                    intolerance, sucking up to authority, abusing authority they happen to
                                                    have themselves, dress codes, elaborate rules and general bad boundaries.
                                                    The people (myself definitely included) who find the "Authenticity Nazi"
                                                    label appropriate for a certain sort of reinactor have these vices in
                                                    mind, not anti-Semitism or militarism.

                                                    The "bad boundaries" issue is central here. If you have high standards of
                                                    authenticity _for yourself_ there is nothing to criticize and much to
                                                    admire, IMHO. Whether this comes from perfectionism, artistic motives,
                                                    curiousity or serious experimental archaeology, it's all good.

                                                    Where the bad boundaries come in is when people forget that other people
                                                    have different motives. The person who really believes that "this really
                                                    upsets _me_, so _you_ have to stop doing it right now!" is being utterly
                                                    selfish in a way they usually don't even recognize as such.

                                                    There's nothing wrong with having your own standards. There's nothing
                                                    wrong with using those standards to judge other people, or artifacts,
                                                    either. But there's a million miles of difference between having
                                                    standards and thinking that having standards gives you the right to push
                                                    other people around.

                                                    Ulfhedinn





                                                    On Sun, May 3, 2009 11:37 pm, leaking pen wrote:
                                                    > What? Both groups believe in a very strong moral code, with laws that
                                                    > match, and a heavily governed and controled social situation. I was not
                                                    > trying to be insulting, but merely give a modern comparison to that
                                                    > segment of the philosophy of the Nazi party. If we were talking about
                                                    > social welfare, I'd point out that the Nazi parties views on such were
                                                    > very similar to the current Democratic party, in that they believed in a
                                                    > "safety net" for those too old or infirm to work, and
                                                    > several minimums of standard including a minimum wage and profit caps on
                                                    > industries.
                                                    >
                                                    > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:29 PM, quailriver <quailriver@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>> Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                                                    >>> to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                                                    >>> regard.
                                                    >>
                                                    >> Wow, that remark is really sickly twisted!
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, leaking pen <itsatrap@...>
                                                    >> wrote:
                                                    >>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                                                    >>> govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                                                    >>> that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the
                                                    >>> us. Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very
                                                    >>> similar to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in
                                                    >>> that regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that
                                                    >>> elected Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German
                                                    >>> presidential election, which he then won, then went largely
                                                    >>> anti-semetic and went on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty
                                                    >>> much killed the party, in name at least, else where in the world. But
                                                    >>> teh word Nazi was used to mean , for lack of a better term, anal about
                                                    >>> something, long before world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler
                                                    >>> or anti-semetism, but to FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far
                                                    >>> off. Very stringent rules, forced following of the most stringent
                                                    >>> application of the rules, no exceptions? sounds about right.
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>> I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                                                    >>>> "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared
                                                    >>>> to mass-murdering fascists.
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >
                                                  • leaking pen
                                                    ... and sits down before the mod god smites me hard for continuing to post on the topic::
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , May 4 2:07 PM
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      ::applauds, points with a sign saying, THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY,
                                                      and sits down before the mod god smites me hard for continuing to post
                                                      on the topic::


                                                      On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 1:45 PM, <conradh@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > And even setting current political jabs aside, long before the German Nazi
                                                      > Party got around to truly notorious stuff like running murder factories
                                                      > and starting World War II, it was already well known for being into
                                                      > intolerance, sucking up to authority, abusing authority they happen to
                                                      > have themselves, dress codes, elaborate rules and general bad boundaries.
                                                      > The people (myself definitely included) who find the "Authenticity Nazi"
                                                      > label appropriate for a certain sort of reinactor have these vices in
                                                      > mind, not anti-Semitism or militarism.
                                                      >
                                                      > The "bad boundaries" issue is central here. If you have high standards of
                                                      > authenticity _for yourself_ there is nothing to criticize and much to
                                                      > admire, IMHO. Whether this comes from perfectionism, artistic motives,
                                                      > curiousity or serious experimental archaeology, it's all good.
                                                      >
                                                      > Where the bad boundaries come in is when people forget that other people
                                                      > have different motives. The person who really believes that "this really
                                                      > upsets _me_, so _you_ have to stop doing it right now!" is being utterly
                                                      > selfish in a way they usually don't even recognize as such.
                                                      >
                                                      > There's nothing wrong with having your own standards. There's nothing
                                                      > wrong with using those standards to judge other people, or artifacts,
                                                      > either. But there's a million miles of difference between having
                                                      > standards and thinking that having standards gives you the right to push
                                                      > other people around.
                                                      >
                                                      > Ulfhedinn
                                                      >
                                                      > On Sun, May 3, 2009 11:37 pm, leaking pen wrote:
                                                      >> What? Both groups believe in a very strong moral code, with laws that
                                                      >> match, and a heavily governed and controled social situation. I was not
                                                      >> trying to be insulting, but merely give a modern comparison to that
                                                      >> segment of the philosophy of the Nazi party. If we were talking about
                                                      >> social welfare, I'd point out that the Nazi parties views on such were
                                                      >> very similar to the current Democratic party, in that they believed in a
                                                      >> "safety net" for those too old or infirm to work, and
                                                      >> several minimums of standard including a minimum wage and profit caps on
                                                      >> industries.
                                                      >>
                                                      >> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:29 PM, quailriver <quailriver@...> wrote:
                                                      >>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>> Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very similar
                                                      >>>> to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in that
                                                      >>>> regard.
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>> Wow, that remark is really sickly twisted!
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>> --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, leaking pen <itsatrap@...>
                                                      >>> wrote:
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>> The Nazi party was a world wide fascist movement that favored strong
                                                      >>>> govermental control of society, and a very stringent moral requirement
                                                      >>>> that people follow. There was a very large Nazi party here in the
                                                      >>>> us. Other than being athiest in general, the Nazi party was very
                                                      >>>> similar to the fundamentalist Christian arm of the Republican party in
                                                      >>>> that regard. ONE BRANCH of the Nazi Party, the one in Germany that
                                                      >>>> elected Adolph Hitler as their party candidate to the German
                                                      >>>> presidential election, which he then won, then went largely
                                                      >>>> anti-semetic and went on a rampage throughout Europe, which pretty
                                                      >>>> much killed the party, in name at least, else where in the world. But
                                                      >>>> teh word Nazi was used to mean , for lack of a better term, anal about
                                                      >>>> something, long before world war 2. it is NOT a comparison to Hitler
                                                      >>>> or anti-semetism, but to FASCISM, which, in this case, isn't too far
                                                      >>>> off. Very stringent rules, forced following of the most stringent
                                                      >>>> application of the rules, no exceptions? sounds about right.
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 4:59 AM, Jeff Johnson <jljonsn@...> wrote:
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>> I wish people would refrain from casually throwing out the term
                                                      >>>>> "Authenticity Nazi". It's highly offensive for anyone to be compared
                                                      >>>>> to mass-murdering fascists.
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                    • James W. Pratt, Jr.
                                                      Politics...delete...delete...delete Not wood working stuff ...delete delete...delete Picture of table.... save James Cunningham With not enough time to read or
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , May 4 7:03 PM
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                                                        Politics...delete...delete...delete

                                                        Not wood working stuff ...delete delete...delete

                                                        Picture of table.... save

                                                         

                                                        James Cunningham

                                                        With not enough time to read or type a response

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