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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Shop Security

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  • Siegfried
    Ok, it s just freaky that I got this message now. I just walked downstairs to my home office to start working, after having a construction guy over to start
    Message 1 of 27 , Apr 10, 2009
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      Ok, it's just freaky that I got this message now.

      I just walked downstairs to my home office to start working, after
      having a construction guy over to start the process of giving me an
      estimate to build a 2 car garage with attached workshop. So that I
      can move my workshop OUT of the basement. Letting me make lovely
      sawdust noises any time of day, without affecting my lady/son trying
      to watch TV in the next room over, or sleeping, etc.

      (If this happens $$$ wise, it's going to be a 16x24' shop! Woooo! My
      current shop is 12'x14'-ish)

      However, because I've heard the stories in the past (often on this
      group) about shops being broken into.

      When the guy asked me about windows for the shop, I stated that for
      safety reasons (people breaking in), that I would only want a couple
      of 'up high' slit windows ... like you get in basements, so that the
      tools were 'out of sight'

      He was shocked, stating that he'd never heard of people breaking into
      shops ... however, he didn't disagree with the sentiment.

      Anyway, just an interesting side note.

      Siegfried


      On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:31 AM, McNutt Jr, William R <mcnutt@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > While not directly on the topic of medieval woodworking, I think that the
      > topic of shop security concerns us all. I’ve started a series of blog posts
      > on how I’ve been working to secure my shop since my last robbery.  I hope
      > that this is of sufficient interest to the company that I can post
      > announcements here when I’ve got a topical post up.
      >
      >
      >
      > http://willstuff.wordpress.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Master William
      >
      >



      --
      ________________________________________________________
      Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
      Barony of Highland Foorde - Kingdom of Atlantia
      Society Combat Archery Marshal
    • Bill McNutt
      Heck - put in arrow slits 8 in the air. Natural light, ventilation, and no trespassing. Will ... From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 27 , Apr 10, 2009
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        Heck - put in arrow slits 8' in the air. Natural light, ventilation, and no
        trespassing.

        Will

        -----Original Message-----
        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Siegfried
        Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 9:36 AM
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Shop Security

        Ok, it's just freaky that I got this message now.

        I just walked downstairs to my home office to start working, after
        having a construction guy over to start the process of giving me an
        estimate to build a 2 car garage with attached workshop. So that I
        can move my workshop OUT of the basement. Letting me make lovely
        sawdust noises any time of day, without affecting my lady/son trying
        to watch TV in the next room over, or sleeping, etc.

        (If this happens $$$ wise, it's going to be a 16x24' shop! Woooo! My
        current shop is 12'x14'-ish)

        However, because I've heard the stories in the past (often on this
        group) about shops being broken into.

        When the guy asked me about windows for the shop, I stated that for
        safety reasons (people breaking in), that I would only want a couple
        of 'up high' slit windows ... like you get in basements, so that the
        tools were 'out of sight'

        He was shocked, stating that he'd never heard of people breaking into
        shops ... however, he didn't disagree with the sentiment.

        Anyway, just an interesting side note.

        Siegfried


        On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:31 AM, McNutt Jr, William R <mcnutt@...>
        wrote:
        >
        >
        > While not directly on the topic of medieval woodworking, I think that the
        > topic of shop security concerns us all. I’ve started a series of blog
        posts
        > on how I’ve been working to secure my shop since my last robbery.  I hope
        > that this is of sufficient interest to the company that I can post
        > announcements here when I’ve got a topical post up.
        >
        >
        >
        > http://willstuff.wordpress.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Master William
        >
        >



        --
        ________________________________________________________
        Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
        Barony of Highland Foorde - Kingdom of Atlantia
        Society Combat Archery Marshal


        ------------------------------------
      • Bill McNutt
        I have had trouble finding equipment I could install myself. Will From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        Message 3 of 27 , Apr 11, 2009
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          I have had trouble finding equipment I could install myself.

           

          Will

           

          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kirkdrago
          Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 7:39 AM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

           




          A very good topic, and one worthy of a bit of discussion.

          A while back before I had much in my shop, but did have a small stereo, it was stolen. Shortly after that I put in a motion detector and a siren. Relatively inexpensive and quite effective. The key is making the siren inaccessible, or at least difficult to get to. You don't have to have it connected to an automated police call system. The thieves don't know whether it is or isn't. And the desire to hang around while a siren blares is pretty small.

          KirkD

          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "McNutt Jr, William R" <mcnutt@...> wrote:

          >
          > While not directly on the topic of medieval woodworking, I think that
          > the topic of shop security concerns us all. I've started a series of
          > blog posts on how I've been working to secure my shop since my last
          > robbery. I hope that this is of sufficient interest to the company that
          > I can post announcements here when I've got a topical post up.
          >
          >
          >
          > http://willstuff.wordpress.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Master William
          >

        • kirkdrago
          Radio Shack, Home Despot, and Lowes all carry DIY security equipment. None of it is difficult to put in. The key with security systems is to decide what
          Message 4 of 27 , Apr 12, 2009
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            Radio Shack, Home Despot, and Lowes all carry DIY security equipment. None of it is difficult to put in. The key with security systems is to decide what you're trying to protect yourself against. Most of your threat comes from amateurs (teens)who are going after an easy opportunity.

            Also think in terms of deterrents. Stealing an example from a great special I saw.

            Imagine you're a thief coming up to two apartment doors. One door has a welcome mat in front of it. The other door has a welcome mat, and a dog bowl labeled "Killer". Which apartment are you going to try to break into?

            KirkD


            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Bill McNutt" <mcnutt@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have had trouble finding equipment I could install myself.
            >
            >
            >
            > Will
            >
            >
            >
            > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kirkdrago
            > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 7:39 AM
            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > A very good topic, and one worthy of a bit of discussion.
            >
            > A while back before I had much in my shop, but did have a small stereo, it
            > was stolen. Shortly after that I put in a motion detector and a siren.
            > Relatively inexpensive and quite effective. The key is making the siren
            > inaccessible, or at least difficult to get to. You don't have to have it
            > connected to an automated police call system. The thieves don't know whether
            > it is or isn't. And the desire to hang around while a siren blares is pretty
            > small.
            >
            > KirkD
            >
            > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com> , "McNutt Jr, William R"
            > <mcnutt@> wrote:
            > >
            > > While not directly on the topic of medieval woodworking, I think that
            > > the topic of shop security concerns us all. I've started a series of
            > > blog posts on how I've been working to secure my shop since my last
            > > robbery. I hope that this is of sufficient interest to the company that
            > > I can post announcements here when I've got a topical post up.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > http://willstuff.wordpress.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > >
            > > Master William
            > >
            >
          • conradh@efn.org
            ... Heh. We live in a working class neighborhood that most of the time is pretty crime free. But one year many years ago, people started losing stuff, and
            Message 5 of 27 , Apr 12, 2009
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              > Imagine you're a thief coming up to two apartment doors. One door has a
              > welcome mat in front of it. The other door has a welcome mat, and a dog
              > bowl labeled "Killer". Which apartment are you going to try to break
              > into?

              Heh. We live in a working class neighborhood that most of the time is
              pretty crime free. But one year many years ago, people started losing
              stuff, and everyone thought they knew who it was; this kid named Warren
              and a couple of his friends. One day Warren showed up at our house (Warren
              *never* came to our house), and kind of bulled his way in. Ulfhedinn
              nearly pushed him off the porch, then remembered our ace in the hole and
              let Warren back him through the curtains to the living room. Our caged
              rattlesnake (right by the curtain) perked right up when Conrad came
              through, and rattled like a champ when Warren emerged. Warren turned
              white, and blurted, "Does he ever get out?" Conrad assured him that we
              only let him out when we were gone, and gathered him up when we returned.
              (Hey, it worked for an exotic-pet dealer we knew in San Francisco years
              ago.) Never had anything disappear out of our house....

              Course, if you do that, you really need to have a snakeproofed shop. Clear
              floor, no place the snake can hide from *you*.

              Reginleif
            • Adam MacDonald
              A friend who was a cabinetmaker after retiring from the military (and who was my weekly shooting buddy/coach) would put the week s best scoring silhouette
              Message 6 of 27 , Apr 12, 2009
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                A friend who was a cabinetmaker after retiring from the military (and who
                was my weekly shooting buddy/coach) would put the week's best scoring
                silhouette target in the window of his shop, right next to the front door.

                ... under the big sticker that read "U.S. Navy SEAL - retired"

                His was the only unit in the industrial park that was never broken into...
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <conradh@...>
                To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 3:30 PM
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security


                >
                >> Imagine you're a thief coming up to two apartment doors. One door has a
                >> welcome mat in front of it. The other door has a welcome mat, and a dog
                >> bowl labeled "Killer". Which apartment are you going to try to break
                >> into?
                >
                > Heh. We live in a working class neighborhood that most of the time is
                > pretty crime free. But one year many years ago, people started losing
                > stuff, and everyone thought they knew who it was; this kid named Warren
                > and a couple of his friends. One day Warren showed up at our house (Warren
                > *never* came to our house), and kind of bulled his way in. Ulfhedinn
                > nearly pushed him off the porch, then remembered our ace in the hole and
                > let Warren back him through the curtains to the living room. Our caged
                > rattlesnake (right by the curtain) perked right up when Conrad came
                > through, and rattled like a champ when Warren emerged. Warren turned
                > white, and blurted, "Does he ever get out?" Conrad assured him that we
                > only let him out when we were gone, and gathered him up when we returned.
                > (Hey, it worked for an exotic-pet dealer we knew in San Francisco years
                > ago.) Never had anything disappear out of our house....
                >
                > Course, if you do that, you really need to have a snakeproofed shop. Clear
                > floor, no place the snake can hide from *you*.
                >
                > Reginleif
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                >
                >
              • Oakes, George
                I have a similar set up in my Garage/Workshop. I am an avid USPSA (US. Practical Shooting Assoc.) shooter and shoot in many pistol competitions. I am also a
                Message 7 of 27 , Apr 13, 2009
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                  I have a similar set up in my Garage/Workshop.

                   

                  I am an avid USPSA (US. Practical Shooting Assoc.) shooter and shoot in many pistol competitions. I am also a licensed armed Security officer. So on my first qualification as part of my obtaining my security license, we had to shoot at a pair of Silhouette targets, they are black with a 3” dia. Orange circle  at center mass. After I shot my qualification round, I scored a 290 out of a possible 300 points, and on both targets the orange circle is nearly gone.

                   

                  I pinned both of these targets up inside the garage door so passersby can see them when the garage door is open. Nothing more, nothing less, just the targets.

                   

                  Gavin

                   

                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam MacDonald
                  Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 6:50 PM
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                   




                  A friend who was a cabinetmaker after retiring from the military (and who
                  was my weekly shooting buddy/coach) would put the week's best scoring
                  silhouette target in the window of his shop, right next to the front door.

                  ... under the big sticker that read "U.S. Navy SEAL - retired"

                  His was the only unit in the industrial park that was never broken into...

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: <conradh@...>
                  To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 3:30 PM
                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                  >
                  >> Imagine you're a thief coming up to two apartment doors. One door has a
                  >> welcome mat in front of it. The other door has a welcome mat, and a dog
                  >> bowl labeled "Killer". Which apartment are you going to try to break
                  >> into?
                  >
                  > Heh. We live in a working class neighborhood that most of the time is
                  > pretty crime free. But one year many years ago, people started losing
                  > stuff, and everyone thought they knew who it was; this kid named Warren
                  > and a couple of his friends. One day Warren showed up at our house (Warren
                  > *never* came to our house), and kind of bulled his way in. Ulfhedinn
                  > nearly pushed him off the porch, then remembered our ace in the hole and
                  > let Warren back him through the curtains to the living room. Our caged
                  > rattlesnake (right by the curtain) perked right up when Conrad came
                  > through, and rattled like a champ when Warren emerged. Warren turned
                  > white, and blurted, "Does he ever get out?" Conrad assured him that we
                  > only let him out when we were gone, and gathered him up when we returned.
                  > (Hey, it worked for an exotic-pet dealer we knew in San Francisco years
                  > ago.) Never had anything disappear out of our house....
                  >
                  > Course, if you do that, you really need to have a snakeproofed shop. Clear
                  > floor, no place the snake can hide from *you*.
                  >
                  > Reginleif
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  >
                  >

                • avery1415@sbcglobal.net
                  ... Cool, when you re not home there are definitely some guns worth stealing!!! Just pointing out an alternate read. Avery
                  Message 8 of 27 , Apr 14, 2009
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                    >I pinned both of these targets up inside the garage door so passersby
                    >can see them when the garage door is open. Nothing more, nothing less,
                    >just the targets.

                    Cool, when you're not home there are definitely some guns worth stealing!!!

                    Just pointing out an alternate read.
                    Avery
                  • Oakes, George
                    Um NO! I am not an Irresponsible GUN OWNER! My Guns are stored in a FIRE PROOF GUN VAULT! The only gun that is not under lock and key is the one that is
                    Message 9 of 27 , Apr 14, 2009
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                      Um NO!

                       

                      I am not an Irresponsible GUN OWNER!

                       

                       My Guns are stored in a FIRE PROOF GUN VAULT! The only gun that is not under lock and key is the one that is currently on my hip, loaded with hollow points in its concealed holster right next to my license to carry and a spare magazine of .45 caliber jacketed hollow points!

                       

                      ANYONE That leaves their guns unlocked or accessible to criminals is in my opinion an irresponsible gun owner!

                       

                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of avery1415@...
                      Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 8:09 AM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                       





                      >I pinned both of these targets up inside the garage door so passersby
                      >can see them when the garage door is open. Nothing more, nothing less,
                      >just the targets.

                      Cool, when you're not home there are definitely some guns worth stealing!!!

                      Just pointing out an alternate read.
                      Avery

                    • Rebekah
                      ... = = = = = Reminds me of the security sign that says: This store guarded by a shotgun 3 nights a week. You guess which 3. In the past I have found it
                      Message 10 of 27 , Apr 14, 2009
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                        On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Oakes, George <goakes@...> wrote:

                        Um NO! 

                        I am not an Irresponsible GUN OWNER! 

                         My Guns are stored in a FIRE PROOF GUN VAULT! The only gun that is not under lock and key is the one that is currently on my hip, loaded with hollow points in its concealed holster right next to my license to carry and a spare magazine of .45 caliber jacketed hollow points!

                        ANYONE That leaves their guns unlocked or accessible to criminals is in my opinion an irresponsible gun owner! 

                        .


                        = = = = =
                        Reminds me of the security sign that says: "This store guarded by a shotgun 3 nights a week. You guess which 3."
                         
                        In the past I have found it useful to purchase a stack of security stickers and put them on the glass. Radio Shack used to have them for a couple of dollars. Just the stickers or, maybe, in conjunction with the foil tape that they use on the perimeter of the glass. On the other hand....a security warning sticker also tells people that you have something worth stealing.

                        --
                        RdA
                        Heinrich Himmler declared:
                        Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the state.
                      • Oakes, George
                        Criminals are creatures of opportunity, if it is easy for them to get at, then they will try. Criminals are also cowards, if they fear they will get caught by
                        Message 11 of 27 , Apr 14, 2009
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                          Criminals are creatures of opportunity, if it is easy for them to get at, then they will try. Criminals are also cowards, if they fear they will get caught by security measures whatever they may be, they will usually go elsewhere. So a security sign will typically scare them off, and not lure them in.

                           

                          Which goes to say, do not leave your valuables in plain sight (like that iPod or laptop left on the front seat of your car, or the GPS device sitting in FULL VIEW on your windshield), do not leave your doors unlocked (home or vehicle), do not leave valuables in the open and unsecured (bikes on your porch unlocked are NOT SAFE).

                           

                          G

                           

                           

                          Reminds me of the security sign that says: "This store guarded by a shotgun 3 nights a week. You guess which 3."

                           

                          In the past I have found it useful to purchase a stack of security stickers and put them on the glass. Radio Shack used to have them for a couple of dollars. Just the stickers or, maybe, in conjunction with the foil tape that they use on the perimeter of the glass. On the other hand....a security warning sticker also tells people that you have something worth stealing.


                        • avery1415@sbcglobal.net
                          ... Sorry, George, I didn t mean to imply anything about you. Just that criminals tend to not to be our best and brightest. I had a burglar walk into my
                          Message 12 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
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                            >My Guns are stored in a FIRE PROOF GUN VAULT!

                            Sorry, George, I didn't mean to imply anything about you. Just that criminals tend to not to be our best and brightest. I had a burglar walk into my house about a year and a half ago. While we were home! Ultimately, he didn't get anything. (Well, not from me. I'm not sure what the judge gave him.)

                            After it was all said and done I found myself thinking this way. "OK, he was on foot. What of mine could he have carried in his arms that would have gotten him the most at a pawn shop." I figured it would be one or two of my tools, or maybe my digital camera and one of my tools, and at a pawn shop, if he picked the most pawnable of my things he would have gotten maybe as much as a shift or two at McDonnalds would pay with minimal risk of being shot, stabbed, beaten or becoming a resident of the Missouri department of corrections.

                            My personal fear is the thousands of dollars worth of damage a burglar might do to my house to steal a hundred dollars or so worth of stuff. Particularly the neighborhood juvenile delinquent class of burglar.

                            Avery
                          • Oakes, George
                            Your concerns are real, and unfortunately they happen, and it seems more, and more frequently as the economy worsens. Even when the economy is good, the crimes
                            Message 13 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
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                              Your concerns are real, and unfortunately they happen, and it seems more, and more frequently as the economy worsens. Even when the economy is good, the crimes still takes place, and it is because not only are the criminals not the best nor the brightest, they are lazy and easy pickings are what these criminals look for, so if you leave something in the open and not nailed or chained down these criminals will eventually find them, and separate you from your hard earned money(items).

                               

                              I don’t know about your state laws, but if a criminal were to enter my house while I was home, they would be carrying them out in a body bag, because they died of lead poisoning. Just saying…

                               

                              In any event, protect yourself, and your valuables. If you have an external shop or unattached building, make sure your home-owners insurance covers the structure and the contents. These items can be replaced, lives cannot. For that I recommend, a fur covered set of sharp teeth (WELL TRAINED DOG), security system, self-defense lessons, and or personal protection in the calibers of 9mm or larger OR all of the above! Again within the laws of your state of course.

                               

                              Gavin

                               

                               

                              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of avery1415@...
                              Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:03 AM
                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                               





                              >My Guns are stored in a FIRE PROOF GUN VAULT!

                              Sorry, George, I didn't mean to imply anything about you. Just that criminals tend to not to be our best and brightest. I had a burglar walk into my house about a year and a half ago. While we were home! Ultimately, he didn't get anything. (Well, not from me. I'm not sure what the judge gave him.)

                              After it was all said and done I found myself thinking this way. "OK, he was on foot. What of mine could he have carried in his arms that would have gotten him the most at a pawn shop." I figured it would be one or two of my tools, or maybe my digital camera and one of my tools, and at a pawn shop, if he picked the most pawnable of my things he would have gotten maybe as much as a shift or two at McDonnalds would pay with minimal risk of being shot, stabbed, beaten or becoming a resident of the Missouri department of corrections.

                              My personal fear is the thousands of dollars worth of damage a burglar might do to my house to steal a hundred dollars or so worth of stuff. Particularly the neighborhood juvenile delinquent class of burglar.

                              Avery

                            • logan
                              ive had tools stolen from my shop once. 45 gallon air compressor, 18v dewalt drill, bosch jigsaw, bosch circular saw. the guy was caught a few days later
                              Message 14 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
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                                ive had tools stolen from my shop once.  45 gallon air compressor, 18v dewalt drill, bosch jigsaw, bosch circular saw.  the guy was caught a few days later when he broke into another home in my neighborhood and there was an old lady home at the time.  she went under her bed and called the police who found him all strung out on drugs.  he confessed to a bunch of break ins, including my home, and told the police which pawn shop he used.  i had been to that very pawn shop the day after he sold all of my tools for $40 (and he claimed "how was i supposed to know they were stolen!") and they told me that i could only look at the stuff on the floor and not in the back.  they claimed they couldnt let me look at the things in the back because they needed to protect the privacy of those that have things on pawn.  they entered the serial numbers of all of my tools into the police database.  who knew the serial number on my dewalt was "t 12345" when clearly it was only "12345"?  needless to say i wanted to choke the pawn shop guy.

                                 

                                anyway, what i do with anything of value (firearms, computers, tools, pets) is a take pictures of the item and its nameplate (model number and serial number) and upload those to my server.  should i ever have anything stolen again i can quickly print pictures for the police from any location or just give them the url and tell them what they are looking for.

                                 

                                 

                                regards

                                logan

                                 

                                "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
                                Harry S Truman

                                "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared"
                                Niccolo Machiavelli

                                www.ebonwoulfe.com
                                www.fighterpractice.com

                                 

                                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of avery1415@...
                                Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:03 AM
                                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                 





                                >My Guns are stored in a FIRE PROOF GUN VAULT!

                                Sorry, George, I didn't mean to imply anything about you. Just that criminals tend to not to be our best and brightest. I had a burglar walk into my house about a year and a half ago. While we were home! Ultimately, he didn't get anything. (Well, not from me. I'm not sure what the judge gave him.)

                                After it was all said and done I found myself thinking this way. "OK, he was on foot. What of mine could he have carried in his arms that would have gotten him the most at a pawn shop." I figured it would be one or two of my tools, or maybe my digital camera and one of my tools, and at a pawn shop, if he picked the most pawnable of my things he would have gotten maybe as much as a shift or two at McDonnalds would pay with minimal risk of being shot, stabbed, beaten or becoming a resident of the Missouri department of corrections.

                                My personal fear is the thousands of dollars worth of damage a burglar might do to my house to steal a hundred dollars or so worth of stuff. Particularly the neighborhood juvenile delinquent class of burglar.

                                Avery

                              • logan
                                most states only allow deadly force if there is a threat (perceived or otherwise) of bodily harm or rape. with rare exceptions you also cannot use deadly
                                Message 15 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
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                                  most states only allow deadly force if there is a threat (perceived or otherwise) of bodily harm or rape.  with rare exceptions you also cannot use deadly force to protect property.  the important thing is that when the police arrive they only get one side of the story.  diligence is, of course, the most important thing here.  i doubt anyone wants to shoot the guy who is having a terrible reaction to some medication or is perhaps just so hammered from a night of drinking that he walked into the wrong house.  having a shop dog will usually do the trick though.

                                   

                                  regards

                                  logan

                                   

                                  "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
                                  Harry S Truman

                                  "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared"
                                  Niccolo Machiavelli

                                  www.ebonwoulfe.com
                                  www.fighterpractice.com

                                   

                                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Oakes, George
                                  Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:21 AM
                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                   




                                  Your concerns are real, and unfortunately they happen, and it seems more, and more frequently as the economy worsens. Even when the economy is good, the crimes still takes place, and it is because not only are the criminals not the best nor the brightest, they are lazy and easy pickings are what these criminals look for, so if you leave something in the open and not nailed or chained down these criminals will eventually find them, and separate you from your hard earned money(items).

                                   

                                  I don’t know about your state laws, but if a criminal were to enter my house while I was home, they would be carrying them out in a body bag, because they died of lead poisoning. Just saying…

                                   

                                  In any event, protect yourself, and your valuables. If you have an external shop or unattached building, make sure your home-owners insurance covers the structure and the contents. These items can be replaced, lives cannot. For that I recommend, a fur covered set of sharp teeth (WELL TRAINED DOG), security system, self-defense lessons, and or personal protection in the calibers of 9mm or larger OR all of the above! Again within the laws of your state of course.

                                   

                                  Gavin

                                   

                                   

                                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of avery1415@...
                                  Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:03 AM
                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                   






                                  >My Guns are stored in a FIRE PROOF GUN VAULT!

                                  Sorry, George, I didn't mean to imply anything about you. Just that criminals tend to not to be our best and brightest. I had a burglar walk into my house about a year and a half ago. While we were home! Ultimately, he didn't get anything. (Well, not from me. I'm not sure what the judge gave him.)

                                  After it was all said and done I found myself thinking this way. "OK, he was on foot. What of mine could he have carried in his arms that would have gotten him the most at a pawn shop." I figured it would be one or two of my tools, or maybe my digital camera and one of my tools, and at a pawn shop, if he picked the most pawnable of my things he would have gotten maybe as much as a shift or two at McDonnalds would pay with minimal risk of being shot, stabbed, beaten or becoming a resident of the Missouri department of corrections.

                                  My personal fear is the thousands of dollars worth of damage a burglar might do to my house to steal a hundred dollars or so worth of stuff. Particularly the neighborhood juvenile delinquent class of burglar.

                                  Avery

                                • Oakes, George
                                  Actually most states have now switched to a Protection in Domicile, and a NO retreat law. Where if inside your domicile (extended to your vehicle as well) and
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
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                                    Actually most states have now switched to a Protection in Domicile, and a NO retreat law. Where if inside your domicile (extended to your vehicle as well) and someone is trying to enter, you have the ability to protect it with deadly force. Like Logan said though, no one wants to shoot anyone, and each situation will need to be evaluated as it happens. No one scenario fits, and it will need to be dealt with accordingly.

                                     

                                    While this is a many faceted discussion, and your security is important, I urge each of you to find some local resources, find out what your laws are, find out what security options are available for you what you are comfortable employing and go from there.

                                     

                                    Now let’s get back to our regularly scheduled program, already in progress.

                                    (This ends my comments on the matter.)

                                    Gavin

                                     

                                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of logan
                                    Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:17 AM
                                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                     




                                    most states only allow deadly force if there is a threat (perceived or otherwise) of bodily harm or rape.  with rare exceptions you also cannot use deadly force to protect property.  the important thing is that when the police arrive they only get one side of the story.  diligence is, of course, the most important thing here.  i doubt anyone wants to shoot the guy who is having a terrible reaction to some medication or is perhaps just so hammered from a night of drinking that he walked into the wrong house.  having a shop dog will usually do the trick though.

                                     

                                    regards

                                    logan

                                  • Bill McNutt
                                    It think it s arson. I think that, in some jurisdictions, you can shoot arsonists. I believe that the logic is that because a fire, once started, cannot be
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
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                                      It think it’s arson.  I think that, in some jurisdictions, you can shoot arsonists.  I believe that the logic is that because a fire, once started, cannot be controlled, arson is a threat not just to the current property, but to the entire community.

                                       

                                      But I Am Not A Lawyer, so don’t live by this.

                                       

                                      Will

                                       

                                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of logan
                                      Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:17 AM
                                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                       




                                      most states only allow deadly force if there is a threat (perceived or otherwise) of bodily harm or rape.  with rare exceptions you also cannot use deadly force to protect property.  the important thing is that when the police arrive they only get one side of the story.  diligence is, of course, the most important thing here.  i doubt anyone wants to shoot the guy who is having a terrible reaction to some medication or is perhaps just so hammered from a night of drinking that he walked into the wrong house.  having a shop dog will usually do the trick though.

                                       

                                      regards

                                      logan

                                       

                                      "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
                                      Harry S Truman

                                      "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared"
                                      Niccolo Machiavelli

                                      www.ebonwoulfe.com
                                      www.fighterpractice.com

                                       

                                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Oakes, George
                                      Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:21 AM
                                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                       





                                      Your concerns are real, and unfortunately they happen, and it seems more, and more frequently as the economy worsens. Even when the economy is good, the crimes still takes place, and it is because not only are the criminals not the best nor the brightest, they are lazy and easy pickings are what these criminals look for, so if you leave something in the open and not nailed or chained down these criminals will eventually find them, and separate you from your hard earned money(items).

                                       

                                      I don’t know about your state laws, but if a criminal were to enter my house while I was home, they would be carrying them out in a body bag, because they died of lead poisoning. Just saying…

                                       

                                      In any event, protect yourself, and your valuables. If you have an external shop or unattached building, make sure your home-owners insurance covers the structure and the contents. These items can be replaced, lives cannot. For that I recommend, a fur covered set of sharp teeth (WELL TRAINED DOG), security system, self-defense lessons, and or personal protection in the calibers of 9mm or larger OR all of the above! Again within the laws of your state of course.

                                       

                                      Gavin

                                       

                                       

                                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of avery1415@...
                                      Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:03 AM
                                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                       







                                      >My Guns are stored in a FIRE PROOF GUN VAULT!

                                      Sorry, George, I didn't mean to imply anything about you. Just that criminals tend to not to be our best and brightest. I had a burglar walk into my house about a year and a half ago. While we were home! Ultimately, he didn't get anything. (Well, not from me. I'm not sure what the judge gave him.)

                                      After it was all said and done I found myself thinking this way. "OK, he was on foot. What of mine could he have carried in his arms that would have gotten him the most at a pawn shop." I figured it would be one or two of my tools, or maybe my digital camera and one of my tools, and at a pawn shop, if he picked the most pawnable of my things he would have gotten maybe as much as a shift or two at McDonnalds would pay with minimal risk of being shot, stabbed, beaten or becoming a resident of the Missouri department of corrections.

                                      My personal fear is the thousands of dollars worth of damage a burglar might do to my house to steal a hundred dollars or so worth of stuff. Particularly the neighborhood juvenile delinquent class of burglar.

                                      Avery

                                    • Bill McNutt
                                      How did he get in? Did you make any changes after the theft? I had the same experience with the local pawn shop, word for word. I wasn t allowed to look at
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
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                                        How did he get in?  Did you make any changes after the theft?

                                         

                                        I had the same experience with the local pawn shop, word for word.  I wasn’t allowed to look at the stock that had been pawned for loan, only the stuff that had been sold.  To let me look at the stock in the back would “violate the privacy of the people who had pawned it.”  Eventually I ran down the bum who ripped THAT stuff off, dragged his ass to the Pawnshop, and on HIS word, HIS WORD,  redeemed my stuff.  Yes – I paid to get my own stuff out of pawn.  It was cheaper than replacing it, and didn’t hit my insurance as hard.

                                         

                                        In retrospect, I should have taken it out of his hide.  He’s the only one I’ve ever caught, and I can’t be sure that he’s not been trying to come back to the shop for another helping.

                                         

                                        Will

                                         

                                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of logan
                                        Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 10:49 AM
                                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                         




                                        ive had tools stolen from my shop once.  45 gallon air compressor, 18v dewalt drill, bosch jigsaw, bosch circular saw.  the guy was caught a few days later when he broke into another home in my neighborhood and there was an old lady home at the time.  she went under her bed and called the police who found him all strung out on drugs.  he confessed to a bunch of break ins, including my home, and told the police which pawn shop he used.  i had been to that very pawn shop the day after he sold all of my tools for $40 (and he claimed "how was i supposed to know they were stolen!") and they told me that i could only look at the stuff on the floor and not in the back.  they claimed they couldnt let me look at the things in the back because they needed to protect the privacy of those that have things on pawn.  they entered the serial numbers of all of my tools into the police database.  who knew the serial number on my dewalt was "t 12345" when clearly it was only "12345"?  needless to say i wanted to choke the pawn shop guy.

                                         

                                        anyway, what i do with anything of value (firearms, computers, tools, pets) is a take pictures of the item and its nameplate (model number and serial number) and upload those to my server.  should i ever have anything stolen again i can quickly print pictures for the police from any location or just give them the url and tell them what they are looking for.

                                         

                                         

                                        regards

                                        logan

                                         

                                        "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
                                        Harry S Truman

                                        "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared"
                                        Niccolo Machiavelli

                                        www.ebonwoulfe.com
                                        www.fighterpractice.com

                                         

                                        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of avery1415@...
                                        Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:03 AM
                                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                         






                                        >My Guns are stored in a FIRE PROOF GUN VAULT!

                                        Sorry, George, I didn't mean to imply anything about you. Just that criminals tend to not to be our best and brightest. I had a burglar walk into my house about a year and a half ago. While we were home! Ultimately, he didn't get anything. (Well, not from me. I'm not sure what the judge gave him.)

                                        After it was all said and done I found myself thinking this way. "OK, he was on foot. What of mine could he have carried in his arms that would have gotten him the most at a pawn shop." I figured it would be one or two of my tools, or maybe my digital camera and one of my tools, and at a pawn shop, if he picked the most pawnable of my things he would have gotten maybe as much as a shift or two at McDonnalds would pay with minimal risk of being shot, stabbed, beaten or becoming a resident of the Missouri department of corrections.

                                        My personal fear is the thousands of dollars worth of damage a burglar might do to my house to steal a hundred dollars or so worth of stuff. Particularly the neighborhood juvenile delinquent class of burglar.

                                        Avery

                                      • logan
                                        he drove around the back of my house (my shop was the garage under the back half of the house) and smashed the door in. i replaced the door with a steel one.
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
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                                          he drove around the back of my house (my shop was the garage under the back half of the house) and smashed the door in.  i replaced the door with a steel one.  when i asked the jerk at the pawn shop why he bought my tools from this crackhead he got angry at me and suggested i not make such remarks about a man i didnt know.  then, he said that he had proven ownership of the tools!  i said how on earth did he do that?  did he produce his social security card with my number on it, the same as what was engraved on each of the items?  he said "he showed that he knew how to operate them and that is all that is required by law in nc".  i pointed out that the drill only has one trigger and the jigsaw has one trigger and a cord.  i also suggested that in the future he ask the crackheads how to change the blade on a bosch jigsaw (or any other t-shank saw).  at this point he asked me to leave.  worst thing is that the pawnshop sold all of my stuff in a day and when i asked the police investigator if i could have the profits from those sales (just the profit, let them keep $40 of it so they dont lose money) i was told that they had established ownership and that i couldnt receive any money from it.  wtf?  i thought that was selling stolen goods, if i did it im sure i would have been in trouble.

                                           

                                          regards

                                          logan

                                           

                                          "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
                                          Harry S Truman

                                          "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared"
                                          Niccolo Machiavelli

                                          www.ebonwoulfe.com
                                          www.fighterpractice.com

                                           

                                          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill McNutt
                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:49 AM
                                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                           




                                          How did he get in?  Did you make any changes after the theft?

                                           

                                          I had the same experience with the local pawn shop, word for word.  I wasn’t allowed to look at the stock that had been pawned for loan, only the stuff that had been sold.  To let me look at the stock in the back would “violate the privacy of the people who had pawned it.”  Eventually I ran down the bum who ripped THAT stuff off, dragged his ass to the Pawnshop, and on HIS word, HIS WORD,  redeemed my stuff.  Yes – I paid to get my own stuff out of pawn.  It was cheaper than replacing it, and didn’t hit my insurance as hard.

                                           

                                          In retrospect, I should have taken it out of his hide.  He’s the only one I’ve ever caught, and I can’t be sure that he’s not been trying to come back to the shop for another helping.

                                           

                                          Will

                                           

                                          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of logan
                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 10:49 AM
                                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                           





                                          ive had tools stolen from my shop once.  45 gallon air compressor, 18v dewalt drill, bosch jigsaw, bosch circular saw.  the guy was caught a few days later when he broke into another home in my neighborhood and there was an old lady home at the time.  she went under her bed and called the police who found him all strung out on drugs.  he confessed to a bunch of break ins, including my home, and told the police which pawn shop he used.  i had been to that very pawn shop the day after he sold all of my tools for $40 (and he claimed "how was i supposed to know they were stolen!") and they told me that i could only look at the stuff on the floor and not in the back.  they claimed they couldnt let me look at the things in the back because they needed to protect the privacy of those that have things on pawn.  they entered the serial numbers of all of my tools into the police database.  who knew the serial number on my dewalt was "t 12345" when clearly it was only "12345"?  needless to say i wanted to choke the pawn shop guy.

                                           

                                          anyway, what i do with anything of value (firearms, computers, tools, pets) is a take pictures of the item and its nameplate (model number and serial number) and upload those to my server.  should i ever have anything stolen again i can quickly print pictures for the police from any location or just give them the url and tell them what they are looking for.

                                           

                                           

                                          regards

                                          logan

                                           

                                          "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
                                          Harry S Truman

                                          "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared"
                                          Niccolo Machiavelli

                                          www.ebonwoulfe.com
                                          www.fighterpractice.com

                                           

                                          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of avery1415@...
                                          Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:03 AM
                                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                           







                                          >My Guns are stored in a FIRE PROOF GUN VAULT!

                                          Sorry, George, I didn't mean to imply anything about you. Just that criminals tend to not to be our best and brightest. I had a burglar walk into my house about a year and a half ago. While we were home! Ultimately, he didn't get anything. (Well, not from me. I'm not sure what the judge gave him.)

                                          After it was all said and done I found myself thinking this way. "OK, he was on foot. What of mine could he have carried in his arms that would have gotten him the most at a pawn shop." I figured it would be one or two of my tools, or maybe my digital camera and one of my tools, and at a pawn shop, if he picked the most pawnable of my things he would have gotten maybe as much as a shift or two at McDonnalds would pay with minimal risk of being shot, stabbed, beaten or becoming a resident of the Missouri department of corrections.

                                          My personal fear is the thousands of dollars worth of damage a burglar might do to my house to steal a hundred dollars or so worth of stuff. Particularly the neighborhood juvenile delinquent class of burglar.

                                          Avery

                                        • James Winkler
                                          Logan... if the guy wasn t missing a finger or two and have a few bandaids on his hands there s no way he could have known how to use the tools ... ;-)
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
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                                            Logan...  if the guy wasn't missing a finger or two and have a few bandaids on his hands there's no way he could have 'known how to use the tools'...  ;-) 
                                             
                                            Chas.

                                          • conradh@efn.org
                                            On Wed, April 15, 2009 9:41 am, logan wrote: worst thing is that the pawnshop sold all of ... It s hard to deal with when the police are silent partners.
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              On Wed, April 15, 2009 9:41 am, logan wrote:
                                              worst thing is that the pawnshop sold all of
                                              > my stuff in a day and when i asked the police investigator if i could have
                                              > the profits from those sales (just the profit, let them keep $40 of it so
                                              > they dont lose money) i was told that they had established ownership and
                                              > that i couldnt receive any money from it. wtf? i thought that was
                                              > selling stolen goods, if i did it im sure i would have been in trouble.

                                              It's hard to deal with when the police are silent partners.

                                              Reginleif
                                            • Jim Mauldin
                                              I know very well from experience the frustration, anger, etc. of being robbed. Just after Christmas my Jeep Grand Cherokee, which was parked in the carport
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Apr 16, 2009
                                              • 0 Attachment

                                                I know very well from experience the frustration, anger, etc. of being robbed. Just after Christmas my Jeep Grand Cherokee, which was parked in the carport next to the house was broken into. Yes, it was locked, but somehow the thugs knew how to disarm the security system, opened the door, and helped themselves to my toolbox, which contained about $2,300 worth of specialty tools, a GPS system, a pair of Nikon binoculars, and a Nikon spotting scope. They even took a pair of sunglasses I had on the dash as well as the registration card for the Jeep. In short, the emptied the Jeep. But to make matters worse, a week later the came back, tried to pry open the front door, and when the couldn’t, simply smashed the windows. There was nothing in there to steal so they just left – with broken glass everywhere.

                                                Now I have installed a trail cam, which I use for deer hunting, in a tree close by, but so far all I have captured is a cat walking beside the Jeep.

                                                Jim Mauldin

                                              • Bill McNutt
                                                You re like me: somebody s decided you are an ATM to make withdrawals from. They re going to keep coming back until you catch them. Will From:
                                                Message 23 of 27 , Apr 16, 2009
                                                • 0 Attachment

                                                  You’re like me:  somebody’s decided you are an ATM to make withdrawals from.  They’re going to keep coming back until you catch them.

                                                   

                                                  Will

                                                   

                                                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Mauldin
                                                  Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:04 AM
                                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security

                                                   




                                                  I know very well from experience the frustration, anger, etc. of being robbed. Just after Christmas my Jeep Grand Cherokee, which was parked in the carport next to the house was broken into. Yes, it was locked, but somehow the thugs knew how to disarm the security system, opened the door, and helped themselves to my toolbox, which contained about $2,300 worth of specialty tools, a GPS system, a pair of Nikon binoculars, and a Nikon spotting scope. They even took a pair of sunglasses I had on the dash as well as the registration card for the Jeep. In short, the emptied the Jeep. But to make matters worse, a week later the came back, tried to pry open the front door, and when the couldn’t, simply smashed the windows. There was nothing in there to steal so they just left – with broken glass everywhere.

                                                  Now I have installed a trail cam, which I use for deer hunting, in a tree close by, but so far all I have captured is a cat walking beside the Jeep.

                                                  Jim Mauldin

                                                • conradh@efn.org
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , Apr 16, 2009
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    On Thu, April 16, 2009 7:22 am, Bill McNutt wrote:
                                                    > You're like me: somebody's decided you are an ATM to make withdrawals
                                                    > from. They're going to keep coming back until you catch them.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Will
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Mauldin
                                                    > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:04 AM
                                                    > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Shop Security
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > I know very well from experience the frustration, anger, etc. of being
                                                    > robbed. Just after Christmas my Jeep Grand Cherokee, which was parked in
                                                    > the carport next to the house was broken into. Yes, it was locked, but
                                                    > somehow the thugs knew how to disarm the security system, opened the door,
                                                    > and helped themselves to my toolbox, which contained about $2,300 worth of
                                                    > specialty tools, a GPS system, a pair of Nikon binoculars, and a Nikon
                                                    > spotting scope. They even took a pair of sunglasses I had on the dash as
                                                    > well as the registration card for the Jeep. In short, the emptied the
                                                    > Jeep.
                                                    > But to make matters worse, a week later the came back, tried to pry open
                                                    > the front door, and when the couldn't, simply smashed the windows. There
                                                    > was nothing in there to steal so they just left - with broken glass
                                                    > everywhere.
                                                    >
                                                    > Now I have installed a trail cam, which I use for deer hunting, in a tree
                                                    > close by, but so far all I have captured is a cat walking beside the
                                                    > Jeep.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Jim Mauldin
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                  • Lisa Wiser
                                                    I m rather fond of the signs with your dog of choice (mine is a Boxer) that says: I can make it to the fence in 2.8 seconds. Can you? Walking around with a
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , Apr 22, 2009
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      I'm rather fond of the signs with your dog of choice (mine is a Boxer)
                                                      that says:

                                                      I can make it to the fence in 2.8 seconds.

                                                      Can you?


                                                      Walking around with a Boxer dog is much like walking around with a gun
                                                      ... people rarely ask if it's loaded.


                                                      Lia

                                                      Rebekah wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > = = = = =
                                                      > Reminds me of the security sign that says: "This store guarded by a
                                                      > shotgun 3 nights a week. You guess which 3."
                                                      >
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