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Guidance

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  • tenbroek2008
    Good Day, I have posted a picture of a tapestry in a album titled Cibella. I am a weaver and would like to recreate the boxloom on the lap of the woman in the
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 19, 2009
      Good Day,
      I have posted a picture of a tapestry in a album titled Cibella.
      I am a weaver and would like to recreate the boxloom on the lap of the
      woman in the left of the picture. My skills and knowledge in wood
      working are very limited (read NONE).

      Could any of you provide me with the type of wood that would have been
      used in period and a source for documentation?

      I am also unsure of the type of joins this type of item would have.
      From the little I have read it seems that nails, dovetails or simple
      butted ends with glue were used during this time frame.

      I would like to enter this as an A&S entry so documentation is very
      important. I also plan to use this loom to weave on so durability as
      well as weight are something I need to consider.

      Thank you in advance for your help

      Cibella Monmouth
      mka Barbara tenBroek
    • Alex Haugland
      Thank you for the very interesting image! When and where does the tapestry originate from? That could easily help with determining the woods and joinery
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 20, 2009
        Thank you for the very interesting image!  When and where does the tapestry originate from?  That could easily help with determining the woods and joinery types used.  Dovetails are fairly late as far as a joinery technique and are likely too late for this piece (they really start showing up commonly in the 16th century, earlier in southern Europe than northern, from what I've seen).   The supports for the horizontal bars which support the weaving have a fairly narrow neck which would likely be a weak point.  This would indicate that the choice of woods would have to be one that doesn't split easily in order to prevent the loom from breaking either under tension, or if dropped.  There are a range of woods that may be options, many of which aren't readily available here.  Many things in northern Europe and England are made of brown oak (not widely available in North America,but white oak is a workable substitute).  Southern Europe used a lot of walnut, which isn't the same species as is commonly found, at least in the Western US.  Other good possibilities are European beech (which I can get pretty readily and inexpensively, but that may not be the case everywhere), or boxwood, which is used largely for smaller items (such as the comb hanging off of the belt of the other woman on the tapestry), largely due to its very slow growth, it is hard to find in large sizes, even in Europe and nowadays is virtually impossible to locate in the dimensions you'd be looking for.

        As far as finding documentation for materials, the easiest way to do that is to look at what was used in the area you're trying to recreate for contemporary furniture to the tapestry, then choose the same wood or a good substitute, assuming that it has the general properties that you're looking for.

        For Joinery, likely you're going to be looking at butted ends, with some kind of mechanical fastener aiding the joint, such as pegs or nails (end grain doesn't glue well).  The glue used would almost certainly have been hide glue, which is moisture sensitive, so a mechanical fastener or joint would help prevent it coming apart, should it get damp.  If you choose nails, Lee Valley (www.leevalley.com) sells some nice period-looking cut nails.  They're machine made and not quite the same as truly period nails, but are a close substitute, if you can't find a blacksmith to make nails for you. 

        Hopefully this helps!

        --Alysaundre Weldon d'Ath
        Barony of Adiantum, An Tir

        tenbroek2008 wrote:

        Good Day,
        I have posted a picture of a tapestry in a album titled Cibella.
        I am a weaver and would like to recreate the boxloom on the lap of the
        woman in the left of the picture. My skills and knowledge in wood
        working are very limited (read NONE).

        Could any of you provide me with the type of wood that would have been
        used in period and a source for documentation?

        I am also unsure of the type of joins this type of item would have.
        From the little I have read it seems that nails, dovetails or simple
        butted ends with glue were used during this time frame.

        I would like to enter this as an A&S entry so documentation is very
        important. I also plan to use this loom to weave on so durability as
        well as weight are something I need to consider.

        Thank you in advance for your help

        Cibella Monmouth
        mka Barbara tenBroek


      • avery1415@sbcglobal.net
        In period the type of wood they used was usually not a, You re making an X? Oh, then you ll using Y. kind of thing. Evidence tends to point to their using
        Message 3 of 11 , Feb 20, 2009
          In period the type of wood they used was usually not a, "You're making an X? Oh, then you'll using Y." kind of thing. Evidence tends to point to their using species based on their properties (hardness, rot resistance, likelyhood to split) and their availability. (It is, aparently, not uncommon to find pieces with a mix of species, each chosen for their particular strengths.)

          Looking at the picture, but not really knowing much about what stresses are put on such a loom or about the particulars of any of its componens, I'd say just about anything they would have had access to would be acceptable. The wood used in any of the boxes recovered from the wreck of the Mary Rose would probably be acceptable. This, of course, depends on your kingdom's A&S judging system and how fussy the judges you draw want to be.

          I don't know the exact date of the tapestry or the location you are aiming for, bubut dovetails were fairly rare for most of the SCA's period. Nails might be acceptable, but given that it sounds like it's going to spend a lot of time in and out of your lap, you might regret that decision as well. I'd not go with the butted ends for reasons of durability.

          Personally, I'd recomend tongue and groove joinery for this.

          Are you planning on attending Gulf Wars? I know a number of us will be there with hand tools.

          Avery
        • AlbionWood
          The tapestry is early-to mid-16th century North European (probably Netherlandish or French). So dovetails aren t out of the question for box-corner joinery,
          Message 4 of 11 , Feb 21, 2009
            The tapestry is early-to mid-16th century North European (probably
            Netherlandish or French). So dovetails aren't out of the question for
            box-corner joinery, in fact they would be quite appropriate. I don't
            know of any surviving boxlooms, but have seen a fair number of small
            coffers and larger chests from this period in European museums. Many of
            them are dovetail-joined. Some are butted and nailed, or treenailed
            (wooden nails); I've never seen one that was just glued. Quite often,
            even with dovetail joinery, the corners are reinforced with metal
            brackets, nailed or riveted in place. I have a number of photos of
            these if you're interested; a few are in the folder "Dovetails" in the
            Photos section for this Group.

            Many types of wood were used for these coffers. Oak, beech, and walnut
            are common; linden was also used for carved coffers. I can get some
            documentary references later if you need them. You'll want quartersawn
            wood if you can get it, to reduce warping.

            A simple box with butted and treenailed joints is a pretty good project
            for a beginning woodworker. Adding the metal brackets will
            significantly increase durability, but also complexity; you'll want to
            fabricate your own brackets.

            Cheers,
            Tim


            > I have posted a picture of a tapestry in a album titled Cibella.
            > I am a weaver and would like to recreate the boxloom on the lap of the
            > woman in the left of the picture. My skills and knowledge in wood
            > working are very limited (read NONE).
            >
            > Could any of you provide me with the type of wood that would have been
            > used in period and a source for documentation?
            >
            > I am also unsure of the type of joins this type of item would have.
            > >From the little I have read it seems that nails, dovetails or simple
            > butted ends with glue were used during this time frame.
            >
            > I would like to enter this as an A&S entry so documentation is very
            > important. I also plan to use this loom to weave on so durability as
            > well as weight are something I need to consider.
            >
            > Thank you in advance for your help
            >
            > Cibella Monmouth
            > mka Barbara tenBroek
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • tenbroek2008
            Good day, I have added more information to the first picture and added two more others. Barbara ... choice ... pretty ... due ... wood or ... some ... (end ...
            Message 5 of 11 , Feb 23, 2009
              Good day,
              I have added more information to the first picture and added two more
              others.

              Barbara

              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Alex Haugland <ahauglan@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Thank you for the very interesting image! When and where does the
              > tapestry originate from? That could easily help with determining the
              > woods and joinery types used. Dovetails are fairly late as far as a
              > joinery technique and are likely too late for this piece (they really
              > start showing up commonly in the 16th century, earlier in southern
              > Europe than northern, from what I've seen). The supports for the
              > horizontal bars which support the weaving have a fairly narrow neck
              > which would likely be a weak point. This would indicate that the
              choice
              > of woods would have to be one that doesn't split easily in order to
              > prevent the loom from breaking either under tension, or if dropped.
              > There are a range of woods that may be options, many of which aren't
              > readily available here. Many things in northern Europe and England are
              > made of brown oak (not widely available in North America,but white oak
              > is a workable substitute). Southern Europe used a lot of walnut, which
              > isn't the same species as is commonly found, at least in the Western
              > US. Other good possibilities are European beech (which I can get
              pretty
              > readily and inexpensively, but that may not be the case everywhere), or
              > boxwood, which is used largely for smaller items (such as the comb
              > hanging off of the belt of the other woman on the tapestry), largely
              due
              > to its very slow growth, it is hard to find in large sizes, even in
              > Europe and nowadays is virtually impossible to locate in the dimensions
              > you'd be looking for.
              >
              > As far as finding documentation for materials, the easiest way to do
              > that is to look at what was used in the area you're trying to recreate
              > for contemporary furniture to the tapestry, then choose the same
              wood or
              > a good substitute, assuming that it has the general properties that
              > you're looking for.
              >
              > For Joinery, likely you're going to be looking at butted ends, with
              some
              > kind of mechanical fastener aiding the joint, such as pegs or nails
              (end
              > grain doesn't glue well). The glue used would almost certainly have
              > been hide glue, which is moisture sensitive, so a mechanical
              fastener or
              > joint would help prevent it coming apart, should it get damp. If you
              > choose nails, Lee Valley (www.leevalley.com) sells some nice
              > period-looking cut nails. They're machine made and not quite the same
              > as truly period nails, but are a close substitute, if you can't find a
              > blacksmith to make nails for you.
              >
              > Hopefully this helps!
              >
              > --Alysaundre Weldon d'Ath
              > Barony of Adiantum, An Tir
              >
              > tenbroek2008 wrote:
              > >
              > > Good Day,
              > > I have posted a picture of a tapestry in a album titled Cibella.
              > > I am a weaver and would like to recreate the boxloom on the lap of the
              > > woman in the left of the picture. My skills and knowledge in wood
              > > working are very limited (read NONE).
              > >
              > > Could any of you provide me with the type of wood that would have been
              > > used in period and a source for documentation?
              > >
              > > I am also unsure of the type of joins this type of item would have.
              > > From the little I have read it seems that nails, dovetails or simple
              > > butted ends with glue were used during this time frame.
              > >
              > > I would like to enter this as an A&S entry so documentation is very
              > > important. I also plan to use this loom to weave on so durability as
              > > well as weight are something I need to consider.
              > >
              > > Thank you in advance for your help
              > >
              > > Cibella Monmouth
              > > mka Barbara tenBroek
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Barbara Tenbroek
              Good Day, Thank you for the information. I do plan to be at Gulf Wars and would love to see what kind of tools might have been used. And maybe some hints on
              Message 6 of 11 , Feb 23, 2009
                Good Day,
                Thank you for the information.  I do plan to be at Gulf Wars and would love to see what kind of tools might have been used. And maybe some hints on how best to assemble my project?

                Cibella


                From: "avery1415@..." <avery1415@...>
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 5:47:43 PM
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re:Guidance

                In period the type of wood they used was usually not a, "You're making an X? Oh, then you'll using Y." kind of thing. Evidence tends to point to their using species based on their properties (hardness, rot resistance, likelyhood to split) and their availability. (It is, aparently, not uncommon to find pieces with a mix of species, each chosen for their particular strengths.)

                Looking at the picture, but not really knowing much about what stresses are put on such a loom or about the particulars of any of its componens, I'd say just about anything they would have had access to would be acceptable. The wood used in any of the boxes recovered from the wreck of the Mary Rose would probably be acceptable. This, of course, depends on your kingdom's A&S judging system and how fussy the judges you draw want to be.

                I don't know the exact date of the tapestry or the location you are aiming for, bubut dovetails were fairly rare for most of the SCA's period. Nails might be acceptable, but given that it sounds like it's going to spend a lot of time in and out of your lap, you might regret that decision as well. I'd not go with the butted ends for reasons of durability.

                Personally, I'd recomend tongue and groove joinery for this.

                Are you planning on attending Gulf Wars? I know a number of us will be there with hand tools.

                Avery


              • Barbara Tenbroek
                Wow he knows more about my source than I do! Thanks. Thanks for the information and wood help. I have added another two pictures for clarification of what I
                Message 7 of 11 , Feb 23, 2009
                  Wow he knows more about my source than I do! Thanks.
                  Thanks for the information and wood help.  I have added another two pictures for clarification of what I am planing on creating.

                  Cibella

                  From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 1:28:35 PM
                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Guidance

                  The tapestry is early-to mid-16th century North European (probably
                  Netherlandish or French). So dovetails aren't out of the question for
                  box-corner joinery, in fact they would be quite appropriate. I don't
                  know of any surviving boxlooms, but have seen a fair number of small
                  coffers and larger chests from this period in European museums. Many of
                  them are dovetail-joined. Some are butted and nailed, or treenailed
                  (wooden nails); I've never seen one that was just glued. Quite often,
                  even with dovetail joinery, the corners are reinforced with metal
                  brackets, nailed or riveted in place. I have a number of photos of
                  these if you're interested; a few are in the folder "Dovetails" in the
                  Photos section for this Group.

                  Many types of wood were used for these coffers. Oak, beech, and walnut
                  are common; linden was also used for carved coffers. I can get some
                  documentary references later if you need them. You'll want quartersawn
                  wood if you can get it, to reduce warping.

                  A simple box with butted and treenailed joints is a pretty good project
                  for a beginning woodworker. Adding the metal brackets will
                  significantly increase durability, but also complexity; you'll want to
                  fabricate your own brackets.

                  Cheers,
                  Tim

                  > I have posted a picture of a tapestry in a album titled Cibella.
                  > I am a weaver and would like to recreate the boxloom on the lap of the
                  > woman in the left of the picture. My skills and knowledge in wood
                  >
                  working are very limited (read NONE).
                  >
                  > Could any of you provide me with the type of wood that would have been
                  > used in period and a source for documentation?
                  >
                  > I am also unsure of the type of joins this type of item would have.
                  > >From the little I have read it seems that nails, dovetails or simple
                  > butted ends with glue were used during this time frame.
                  >
                  > I would like to enter this as an A&S entry so documentation is very
                  > important. I also plan to use this loom to weave on so durability as
                  > well as weight are something I need to consider.
                  >
                  > Thank you in advance for your help
                  >
                  > Cibella Monmouth
                  > mka Barbara tenBroek
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                • Bill McNutt
                  My current opinion is that availability was the first criterion used for selecting wood, then suitability. If pine is all you have, that s what you use. If
                  Message 8 of 11 , Feb 23, 2009

                    My current opinion is that availability was the first criterion used for selecting wood, then suitability.

                     

                    If pine is all you have, that’s what you use.  If you have a choice between pine and oak, you can be pickier.  If pine, oak, and walnut are all available, you can be pickier still.

                     

                    But it’s my opinion that the reason that so many 16th century cassone are made of walnut is that walnut was available in Florence in the 16th century.

                     

                    Will

                     

                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Tenbroek
                    Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:42 AM
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re:Guidance

                     

                    Good Day,
                    Thank you for the information.  I do plan to be at Gulf Wars and would love to see what kind of tools might have been used. And maybe some hints on how best to assemble my project?

                    Cibella

                     


                    From: "avery1415@..." <avery1415@...>
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 5:47:43 PM
                    Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re:Guidance

                    In period the type of wood they used was usually not a, "You're making an X? Oh, then you'll using Y." kind of thing. Evidence tends to point to their using species based on their properties (hardness, rot resistance, likelyhood to split) and their availability. (It is, aparently, not uncommon to find pieces with a mix of species, each chosen for their particular strengths.)

                    Looking at the picture, but not really knowing much about what stresses are put on such a loom or about the particulars of any of its componens, I'd say just about anything they would have had access to would be acceptable. The wood used in any of the boxes recovered from the wreck of the Mary Rose would probably be acceptable. This, of course, depends on your kingdom's A&S judging system and how fussy the judges you draw want to be.

                    I don't know the exact date of the tapestry or the location you are aiming for, bubut dovetails were fairly rare for most of the SCA's period. Nails might be acceptable, but given that it sounds like it's going to spend a lot of time in and out of your lap, you might regret that decision as well. I'd not go with the butted ends for reasons of durability.

                    Personally, I'd recomend tongue and groove joinery for this.

                    Are you planning on attending Gulf Wars? I know a number of us will be there with hand tools.

                    Avery

                     

                  • Jeff Johnson
                    If you have little woodworking experience, this may be a difficult project. Might I suggest you take a look at this page:
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 26, 2009
                      If you have little woodworking experience, this may be a difficult
                      project. Might I suggest you take a look at this page:

                      http://www.spanishpeacock.com/looms.htm

                      Jeff

                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Tenbroek
                      <tenbroek2008@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Wow he knows more about my source than I do! Thanks.
                      > Thanks for the information and wood help. I have added another two
                      pictures for clarification of what I am planing on creating.
                      >
                      >
                      > Cibella
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                      > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 1:28:35 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Guidance
                      >
                      >
                      > The tapestry is early-to mid-16th century North European (probably
                      > Netherlandish or French). So dovetails aren't out of the question for
                      > box-corner joinery, in fact they would be quite appropriate. I don't
                      > know of any surviving boxlooms, but have seen a fair number of small
                      > coffers and larger chests from this period in European museums.
                      Many of
                      > them are dovetail-joined. Some are butted and nailed, or treenailed
                      > (wooden nails); I've never seen one that was just glued. Quite often,
                      > even with dovetail joinery, the corners are reinforced with metal
                      > brackets, nailed or riveted in place. I have a number of photos of
                      > these if you're interested; a few are in the folder "Dovetails" in the
                      > Photos section for this Group.
                      >
                      > Many types of wood were used for these coffers. Oak, beech, and walnut
                      > are common; linden was also used for carved coffers. I can get some
                      > documentary references later if you need them. You'll want quartersawn
                      > wood if you can get it, to reduce warping.
                      >
                      > A simple box with butted and treenailed joints is a pretty good project
                      > for a beginning woodworker. Adding the metal brackets will
                      > significantly increase durability, but also complexity; you'll want to
                      > fabricate your own brackets.
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Tim
                      >
                      > > I have posted a picture of a tapestry in a album titled Cibella.
                      > > I am a weaver and would like to recreate the boxloom on the lap of the
                      > > woman in the left of the picture. My skills and knowledge in wood
                      > > working are very limited (read NONE).
                      > >
                      > > Could any of you provide me with the type of wood that would have been
                      > > used in period and a source for documentation?
                      > >
                      > > I am also unsure of the type of joins this type of item would have.
                      > > >From the little I have read it seems that nails, dovetails or simple
                      > > butted ends with glue were used during this time frame.
                      > >
                      > > I would like to enter this as an A&S entry so documentation is very
                      > > important. I also plan to use this loom to weave on so durability as
                      > > well as weight are something I need to consider.
                      > >
                      > > Thank you in advance for your help
                      > >
                      > > Cibella Monmouth
                      > > mka Barbara tenBroek
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Barbara Tenbroek
                      Thank you. I had seen the loom and really thought it was a good price, but since I want to do this as an A&S project I need to make it myself.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Feb 26, 2009
                        Thank you.  I had seen the loom and really thought it was a good price, but since I want to do this as an A&S project I need to make it myself.


                        From: Jeff Johnson <jljonsn9663@...>
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 7:47:21 PM
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Guidance

                        If you have little woodworking experience, this may be a difficult
                        project. Might I suggest you take a look at this page:

                        http://www.spanishp eacock.com/ looms.htm

                        Jeff

                        --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, Barbara Tenbroek
                        <tenbroek2008@ ...> wrote:

                        >
                        > Wow he knows more about my source than I do! Thanks.
                        > Thanks for the information and wood help. I have added another two
                        pictures for clarification of what I am planing on creating.
                        >
                        >
                        > Cibella
                        >
                        >
                        > ____________ _________ _________ __
                        > From: AlbionWood <albionwood@ ...>
                        > To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                        > Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 1:28:35 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Guidance
                        >
                        >
                        > The tapestry is early-to mid-16th century North European (probably
                        > Netherlandish or French). So dovetails aren't out of the question for
                        > box-corner joinery, in fact they would be quite appropriate. I don't
                        > know of any surviving boxlooms, but have seen a fair number of small
                        > coffers and larger chests from this period in European museums.
                        Many of
                        > them are dovetail-joined. Some are butted and nailed, or treenailed
                        > (wooden nails); I've never seen one that was just glued. Quite often,
                        > even with dovetail joinery, the corners are reinforced with metal
                        > brackets, nailed or riveted in place. I have a number of photos of
                        > these if you're interested; a few are in the folder "Dovetails" in the
                        > Photos section for this Group.
                        >
                        > Many types of wood were used for these coffers. Oak, beech, and walnut
                        > are common; linden was also used for carved coffers. I can get some
                        > documentary references later if you need them. You'll want quartersawn
                        > wood if you can get it, to reduce warping.
                        >
                        > A simple box with butted and treenailed joints is a pretty good project
                        > for a beginning woodworker. Adding the metal brackets will
                        > significantly increase durability, but also complexity; you'll want to
                        > fabricate your own brackets.
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        > Tim
                        >
                        > > I have posted a picture of a tapestry in a album titled Cibella.
                        > > I am a weaver and would like to recreate the boxloom on the lap of the
                        > > woman in the left of the picture. My skills and knowledge in wood
                        > > working are very limited (read NONE).
                        > >
                        > > Could any of you provide me with the type of wood that would have been
                        > > used in period and a source for documentation?
                        > >
                        > > I am also unsure of the type of joins this type of item would have.
                        > > >From the little I have read it seems that nails, dovetails or simple
                        > > butted ends with glue were used during this time frame.
                        > >
                        > > I would like to enter this as an A&S entry so documentation is very
                        > > important. I also plan to use this loom to weave on so durability as
                        > > well as weight are something I need to consider.
                        > >
                        > > Thank you in advance for your help
                        > >
                        > > Cibella Monmouth
                        > > mka Barbara tenBroek
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >


                      • Jeff Johnson
                        Ah. I misunderstood. Tim had good suggestions, but some of the woods he suggests may be difficult to work. Walnut is a tad heavy for something for your lap,
                        Message 11 of 11 , Feb 26, 2009
                          Ah. I misunderstood.

                          Tim had good suggestions, but some of the woods he suggests may be
                          difficult to work. Walnut is a tad heavy for something for your lap,
                          and American walnut is also different from European species. Linden is
                          a tad soft. Beech would work, (and is light colored like the tapestry)
                          but might be harder to obtain. Oak should be quartersaw to prevent
                          warping, and is likewise heavy for a lap device. Ash would be a good
                          choice for this application in my book. It's strong, light in weight
                          and color, not the easiest to work, but durable. I'd stay clear of
                          pine, no matter how inexpensive. It'll break on you.

                          For the joints, dovetailing is difficult for the beginner, so I'd
                          suggest rabbet joints at the corner and wooden pegs.

                          Overall, though, I'd suggest starting with an easier project.

                          Jeff

                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Tenbroek
                          <tenbroek2008@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Thank you. I had seen the loom and really thought it was a good
                          price, but since I want to do this as an A&S project I need to make it
                          myself.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Jeff Johnson <jljonsn9663@...>
                          > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 7:47:21 PM
                          > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Guidance
                          >
                          >
                          > If you have little woodworking experience, this may be a difficult
                          > project. Might I suggest you take a look at this page:
                          >
                          > http://www.spanishp eacock.com/ looms.htm
                          >
                          > Jeff
                          >
                          > --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, Barbara Tenbroek
                          > <tenbroek2008@ ...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Wow he knows more about my source than I do! Thanks.
                          > > Thanks for the information and wood help. I have added another two
                          > pictures for clarification of what I am planing on creating.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Cibella
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                          > > From: AlbionWood <albionwood@ ...>
                          > > To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                          > > Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 1:28:35 PM
                          > > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Guidance
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The tapestry is early-to mid-16th century North European (probably
                          > > Netherlandish or French). So dovetails aren't out of the question
                          for
                          > > box-corner joinery, in fact they would be quite appropriate. I don't
                          > > know of any surviving boxlooms, but have seen a fair number of small
                          > > coffers and larger chests from this period in European museums.
                          > Many of
                          > > them are dovetail-joined. Some are butted and nailed, or treenailed
                          > > (wooden nails); I've never seen one that was just glued. Quite
                          often,
                          > > even with dovetail joinery, the corners are reinforced with metal
                          > > brackets, nailed or riveted in place. I have a number of photos of
                          > > these if you're interested; a few are in the folder "Dovetails" in
                          the
                          > > Photos section for this Group.
                          > >
                          > > Many types of wood were used for these coffers. Oak, beech, and
                          walnut
                          > > are common; linden was also used for carved coffers. I can get some
                          > > documentary references later if you need them. You'll want
                          quartersawn
                          > > wood if you can get it, to reduce warping.
                          > >
                          > > A simple box with butted and treenailed joints is a pretty good
                          project
                          > > for a beginning woodworker. Adding the metal brackets will
                          > > significantly increase durability, but also complexity; you'll
                          want to
                          > > fabricate your own brackets.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers,
                          > > Tim
                          > >
                          > > > I have posted a picture of a tapestry in a album titled Cibella.
                          > > > I am a weaver and would like to recreate the boxloom on the lap
                          of the
                          > > > woman in the left of the picture. My skills and knowledge in wood
                          > > > working are very limited (read NONE).
                          > > >
                          > > > Could any of you provide me with the type of wood that would
                          have been
                          > > > used in period and a source for documentation?
                          > > >
                          > > > I am also unsure of the type of joins this type of item would have.
                          > > > >From the little I have read it seems that nails, dovetails or
                          simple
                          > > > butted ends with glue were used during this time frame.
                          > > >
                          > > > I would like to enter this as an A&S entry so documentation is very
                          > > > important. I also plan to use this loom to weave on so
                          durability as
                          > > > well as weight are something I need to consider.
                          > > >
                          > > > Thank you in advance for your help
                          > > >
                          > > > Cibella Monmouth
                          > > > mka Barbara tenBroek
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
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                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
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