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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

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  • AlbionWood
    Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least. About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
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      Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least.  About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced stability.  Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the trestles.  There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original or not.  Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a look at the underside?

      German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a different design (and arguably post-medieval).

      Cheers,
      Tim

      Hall, Hayward wrote:

      Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

       

      Guillaume


    • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
      An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up of separate planks.... It may not be documentable but it probably would work to hold the
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
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        An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up
        of separate planks....

        It may not be documentable but it probably would work to
        hold the outermost planks in place... or all of them for that matter
        could be done this way....

        A pin with a shoulder that goes through the top into the
        cross bar to hold the two outermost planks in place...
        You would just drop it in then push it up from below to remove it

        Drawing link



         
        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

        Aude Aliquid Dignum
        ' Dare Something Worthy '



        From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:26:38 PM
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

        Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least.  About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced stability.  Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the trestles.  There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original or not.  Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a look at the underside?

        German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a different design (and arguably post-medieval) .

        Cheers,
        Tim

        Hall, Hayward wrote:

        Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

         

        Guillaume



      • Bill McNutt
        This is a problem for SCA trestle tables. Most of the period trestle tables I have examined have been massive, and the sheer weight of the two inch thick
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
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          This is a problem for SCA trestle tables.  Most of the period trestle tables I have examined have been massive, and the sheer weight of the two inch thick table top prevented that.
           
          Will


          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hall, Hayward
          Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:42 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

          Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

          Guillaume

          From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
          Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

          I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

          I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

          I've done them like this....if for no other reason
          that it makes sense and it works...

          Picture I


          Picture II

          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

          Aude Aliquid Dignum
          ' Dare Something Worthy '

        • Wade Hutchison
          Here s one depiction of how the legs were joined to the stretcher. It s from a stained glass window at the Cloister s museum in NYC.
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
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            Here's one depiction of how the legs were joined to the stretcher.
            It's from a stained glass window at the Cloister's museum in NYC.

            http://www.redoakleaf.net/Pics/monkeys.jpg

            I made a set of these that we've used at Pennsic for a couple of years
            now, and they work very well. The only difference is that I installed
            cleats on the underside of the table top to keep the top from sliding
            around. I make the mortises loose enough to knock down at the end of
            war for ease of transportation.

            Hope this helps.
            -----Gille MacDhnouill
            AEthelmearc.


            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Johnson"
            <jljonsn9663@...> wrote:
            >
            > Trestle tables? There are a few depictions of them in period art of
            > the 14th & 15th century, but the problem is that I haven't seen any
            > that had a decent enough resolution of or show how they are joined at
            > the top or into the table top. Problem is: tablecloths! DAMNED
            > TABLECLOTHS!
            >
            > http://www.theluttrells.com/LuttrellsAtTable.html
            >
            > You'll see a few photos of conjectural reconstructions that some folks
            > have made. Some are basic joinery of 3 tapered legs mortised into a
            > horizontal board, some have webs between the front pair of legs, and
            > some are complex knock-down assemblies.
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "George Irvin" <jmcdade@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > God morning everyone
            > > I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse
            > type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)
            > Anything will help.
            > > Thank you.
            > > Geo.
            > >
            >
          • Stan Hunter
            The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles, with no nasty table-cloths, is attached. Sir Stanford
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
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              The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles, with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
               
              Sir Stanford


            • Wolf
              Swe-e-e-e-t! Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it was made, etc? (a request from SWMBO )
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
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                Swe-e-e-e-t!

                Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it
                was made, etc?

                (a request from SWMBO <g>)

                On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                >
                > Sir Stanford
                >
              • Hall, Hayward
                Now all we need are plans for period monkeys. ________________________________
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
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                  Now all we need are plans for period monkeys.

                  ________________________________


                  On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                  > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                  > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                  >
                  > Sir Stanford
                  >
                • Jeff Johnson
                  Why go all the way through the top? I ve played with pegs in the top of the legs and partway though the table top. You don t even need to make the holes in the
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
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                    Why go all the way through the top? I've played with pegs in the top
                    of the legs and partway though the table top. You don't even need to
                    make the holes in the bottom of the top very precise - the objective
                    is to pevent the top from sliding more than a inch or two.




                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                    <baronconal@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up
                    > of separate planks....
                    >
                    > It may not be documentable but it probably would work to
                    > hold the outermost planks in place... or all of them for that matter
                    > could be done this way....
                    >
                    > A pin with a shoulder that goes through the top into the
                    > cross bar to hold the two outermost planks in place...
                    > You would just drop it in then push it up from below to remove it
                    >
                    > Drawing link
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                    >
                    > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                    > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                    > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:26:38 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg
                    >
                    >
                    > Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very
                    > thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least. About
                    > 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced
                    > stability. Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the
                    > trestles. There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the
                    > underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been
                    > modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original
                    > or not. Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a
                    > look at the underside?
                    >
                    > German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or
                    > sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a
                    > different design (and arguably post-medieval) .
                    >
                    > Cheers,
                    > Tim
                    >
                    > Hall, Hayward wrote:
                    > Do
                    > you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during
                    > use? I
                    > suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.
                    >
                    > Guillaume
                    >
                  • Jeff Johnson
                    But the surviving ones are mostly later and of afixed to the legs. (No finds of trestles coincides with no finds of trestle tops. :) ) Most of what you see in
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
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                      But the surviving ones are mostly later and of afixed to the legs. (No
                      finds of trestles coincides with no finds of trestle tops. :) ) Most
                      of what you see in illustrations seem pretty thin. I suspect it might
                      just be that the simple solution of gravity and friction held table
                      tops in place and that people then knew better than to lean against
                      tables.
                    • Jeff Johnson
                      Wow. I d seen that stained glass image in far less resolution before. I hadn t dreamed it d have that level of detail on the leg. THANK YOU!
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
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                        Wow. I'd seen that stained glass image in far less resolution before.
                        I hadn't dreamed it'd have that level of detail on the leg.

                        THANK YOU!

                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <wolfeyes@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Swe-e-e-e-t!
                        >
                        > Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it
                        > was made, etc?
                        >
                        > (a request from SWMBO <g>)
                        >
                        > On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                        > > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                        > > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                        > >
                        > > Sir Stanford
                        > >
                        >
                      • gunwaldt
                        Could someone post this in the files section for those of us who don t receive attachments? thanks, Gunwaldt ... with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 13, 2009
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                          Could someone post this in the files section for those of us who don't
                          receive attachments?

                          thanks,
                          Gunwaldt

                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Stan Hunter" <sd_hunter@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                          with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                          >
                          > Sir Stanford
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          >
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