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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

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  • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
    The ones I ve made have an assembled table top. Too many small children in my SCA circles to want to take chances with one bumping the table just the right way
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
      The ones I've made have an assembled table top.

      Too many small children in my SCA circles to want
      to take chances with one bumping the table just the
      right way to make it fall or lean up against it to get
      one of those cookies while mommy is not watching....

      I've always put a socket/pocket....whatever on the
      underside of the table that the crossbar fits into to
      hold everything in place....

      Table III
        this picture kinda shows it....

      Table IV shows it a little better


       
      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

      Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '



      From: "Hall, Hayward" <hallh@...>
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:41:54 PM
      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

      Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

       

      Guillaume

       

      From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
      Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
      To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

       

      I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

      I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

      I've done them like this....if for no other reason
      that it makes sense and it works...

      Picture I


      Picture II

       

      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

      Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '

       


    • AlbionWood
      Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least. About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
        Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least.  About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced stability.  Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the trestles.  There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original or not.  Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a look at the underside?

        German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a different design (and arguably post-medieval).

        Cheers,
        Tim

        Hall, Hayward wrote:

        Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

         

        Guillaume


      • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
        An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up of separate planks.... It may not be documentable but it probably would work to hold the
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
          An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up
          of separate planks....

          It may not be documentable but it probably would work to
          hold the outermost planks in place... or all of them for that matter
          could be done this way....

          A pin with a shoulder that goes through the top into the
          cross bar to hold the two outermost planks in place...
          You would just drop it in then push it up from below to remove it

          Drawing link



           
          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

          Aude Aliquid Dignum
          ' Dare Something Worthy '



          From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:26:38 PM
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

          Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least.  About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced stability.  Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the trestles.  There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original or not.  Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a look at the underside?

          German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a different design (and arguably post-medieval) .

          Cheers,
          Tim

          Hall, Hayward wrote:

          Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

           

          Guillaume



        • Bill McNutt
          This is a problem for SCA trestle tables. Most of the period trestle tables I have examined have been massive, and the sheer weight of the two inch thick
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
            This is a problem for SCA trestle tables.  Most of the period trestle tables I have examined have been massive, and the sheer weight of the two inch thick table top prevented that.
             
            Will


            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hall, Hayward
            Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:42 PM
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

            Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

            Guillaume

            From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
            Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
            To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

            I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

            I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

            I've done them like this....if for no other reason
            that it makes sense and it works...

            Picture I


            Picture II

            Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

            Aude Aliquid Dignum
            ' Dare Something Worthy '

          • Wade Hutchison
            Here s one depiction of how the legs were joined to the stretcher. It s from a stained glass window at the Cloister s museum in NYC.
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
              Here's one depiction of how the legs were joined to the stretcher.
              It's from a stained glass window at the Cloister's museum in NYC.

              http://www.redoakleaf.net/Pics/monkeys.jpg

              I made a set of these that we've used at Pennsic for a couple of years
              now, and they work very well. The only difference is that I installed
              cleats on the underside of the table top to keep the top from sliding
              around. I make the mortises loose enough to knock down at the end of
              war for ease of transportation.

              Hope this helps.
              -----Gille MacDhnouill
              AEthelmearc.


              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Johnson"
              <jljonsn9663@...> wrote:
              >
              > Trestle tables? There are a few depictions of them in period art of
              > the 14th & 15th century, but the problem is that I haven't seen any
              > that had a decent enough resolution of or show how they are joined at
              > the top or into the table top. Problem is: tablecloths! DAMNED
              > TABLECLOTHS!
              >
              > http://www.theluttrells.com/LuttrellsAtTable.html
              >
              > You'll see a few photos of conjectural reconstructions that some folks
              > have made. Some are basic joinery of 3 tapered legs mortised into a
              > horizontal board, some have webs between the front pair of legs, and
              > some are complex knock-down assemblies.
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "George Irvin" <jmcdade@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > God morning everyone
              > > I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse
              > type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)
              > Anything will help.
              > > Thank you.
              > > Geo.
              > >
              >
            • Stan Hunter
              The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles, with no nasty table-cloths, is attached. Sir Stanford
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
                The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles, with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                 
                Sir Stanford


              • Wolf
                Swe-e-e-e-t! Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it was made, etc? (a request from SWMBO )
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
                  Swe-e-e-e-t!

                  Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it
                  was made, etc?

                  (a request from SWMBO <g>)

                  On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                  > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                  > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                  >
                  > Sir Stanford
                  >
                • Hall, Hayward
                  Now all we need are plans for period monkeys. ________________________________
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
                    Now all we need are plans for period monkeys.

                    ________________________________


                    On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                    > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                    > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                    >
                    > Sir Stanford
                    >
                  • Jeff Johnson
                    Why go all the way through the top? I ve played with pegs in the top of the legs and partway though the table top. You don t even need to make the holes in the
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
                      Why go all the way through the top? I've played with pegs in the top
                      of the legs and partway though the table top. You don't even need to
                      make the holes in the bottom of the top very precise - the objective
                      is to pevent the top from sliding more than a inch or two.




                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                      <baronconal@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up
                      > of separate planks....
                      >
                      > It may not be documentable but it probably would work to
                      > hold the outermost planks in place... or all of them for that matter
                      > could be done this way....
                      >
                      > A pin with a shoulder that goes through the top into the
                      > cross bar to hold the two outermost planks in place...
                      > You would just drop it in then push it up from below to remove it
                      >
                      > Drawing link
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                      >
                      > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                      > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                      > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:26:38 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg
                      >
                      >
                      > Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very
                      > thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least. About
                      > 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced
                      > stability. Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the
                      > trestles. There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the
                      > underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been
                      > modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original
                      > or not. Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a
                      > look at the underside?
                      >
                      > German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or
                      > sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a
                      > different design (and arguably post-medieval) .
                      >
                      > Cheers,
                      > Tim
                      >
                      > Hall, Hayward wrote:
                      > Do
                      > you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during
                      > use? I
                      > suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.
                      >
                      > Guillaume
                      >
                    • Jeff Johnson
                      But the surviving ones are mostly later and of afixed to the legs. (No finds of trestles coincides with no finds of trestle tops. :) ) Most of what you see in
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
                        But the surviving ones are mostly later and of afixed to the legs. (No
                        finds of trestles coincides with no finds of trestle tops. :) ) Most
                        of what you see in illustrations seem pretty thin. I suspect it might
                        just be that the simple solution of gravity and friction held table
                        tops in place and that people then knew better than to lean against
                        tables.
                      • Jeff Johnson
                        Wow. I d seen that stained glass image in far less resolution before. I hadn t dreamed it d have that level of detail on the leg. THANK YOU!
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
                          Wow. I'd seen that stained glass image in far less resolution before.
                          I hadn't dreamed it'd have that level of detail on the leg.

                          THANK YOU!

                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <wolfeyes@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Swe-e-e-e-t!
                          >
                          > Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it
                          > was made, etc?
                          >
                          > (a request from SWMBO <g>)
                          >
                          > On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                          > > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                          > > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                          > >
                          > > Sir Stanford
                          > >
                          >
                        • gunwaldt
                          Could someone post this in the files section for those of us who don t receive attachments? thanks, Gunwaldt ... with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 13, 2009
                            Could someone post this in the files section for those of us who don't
                            receive attachments?

                            thanks,
                            Gunwaldt

                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Stan Hunter" <sd_hunter@...>
                            wrote:
                            >
                            > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                            with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                            >
                            > Sir Stanford
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            >
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