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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

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  • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
    by the way that single leg does taper towards the top. It s about a 10 degree angle. Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 7, 2009
      by the way that single leg does taper
      towards the top. It's about a 10 degree angle.


       
      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

      Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '



      From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...>
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 10:47:58 PM
      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

      I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

      I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

      I've done them like this....if for no other reason
      that it makes sense and it works...

      Picture I


      Picture II

       
      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

      Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '



      From: jay sabath <LordJohannes@ gmail.com>
      To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:39:13 PM
      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

      best source I have is

      http://www.larsdatt er.com/tables. htm

      Johannes

      On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:43 AM, George Irvin <jmcdade@peoplepc. com> wrote:

      God morning everyone
      I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)  Anything will help.
      Thank you.
      Geo.



      --
      Lord Johannes Machiavelli
      Shire of Rokkehealden
      Kingdom of the Middle


    • John LaTorre
      ... Duke Cariodoc has written up his version of the trestle table at http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Other_Articles_II_Furniture.pdf
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
        George Irvin wrote:

        > God morning everyone
        > I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)
        > Anything will help
        >

        Duke Cariodoc has written up his version of the trestle table at


        http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Other_Articles_II_Furniture.pdf

        --Johann von Drachenfels
        West Kingdom
      • Hall, Hayward
        Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use? I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place. Guillaume From:
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009

          Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

           

          Guillaume

           

          From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
          Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

           

          I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

          I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

          I've done them like this....if for no other reason
          that it makes sense and it works...

          Picture I


          Picture II

           

          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

          Aude Aliquid Dignum
          ' Dare Something Worthy '

           

        • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
          The ones I ve made have an assembled table top. Too many small children in my SCA circles to want to take chances with one bumping the table just the right way
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
            The ones I've made have an assembled table top.

            Too many small children in my SCA circles to want
            to take chances with one bumping the table just the
            right way to make it fall or lean up against it to get
            one of those cookies while mommy is not watching....

            I've always put a socket/pocket....whatever on the
            underside of the table that the crossbar fits into to
            hold everything in place....

            Table III
              this picture kinda shows it....

            Table IV shows it a little better


             
            Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

            Aude Aliquid Dignum
            ' Dare Something Worthy '



            From: "Hall, Hayward" <hallh@...>
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:41:54 PM
            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

            Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

             

            Guillaume

             

            From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
            Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
            To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

             

            I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

            I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

            I've done them like this....if for no other reason
            that it makes sense and it works...

            Picture I


            Picture II

             

            Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

            Aude Aliquid Dignum
            ' Dare Something Worthy '

             


          • AlbionWood
            Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least. About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
              Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least.  About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced stability.  Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the trestles.  There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original or not.  Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a look at the underside?

              German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a different design (and arguably post-medieval).

              Cheers,
              Tim

              Hall, Hayward wrote:

              Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

               

              Guillaume


            • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
              An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up of separate planks.... It may not be documentable but it probably would work to hold the
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
                An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up
                of separate planks....

                It may not be documentable but it probably would work to
                hold the outermost planks in place... or all of them for that matter
                could be done this way....

                A pin with a shoulder that goes through the top into the
                cross bar to hold the two outermost planks in place...
                You would just drop it in then push it up from below to remove it

                Drawing link



                 
                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                Aude Aliquid Dignum
                ' Dare Something Worthy '



                From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:26:38 PM
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least.  About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced stability.  Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the trestles.  There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original or not.  Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a look at the underside?

                German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a different design (and arguably post-medieval) .

                Cheers,
                Tim

                Hall, Hayward wrote:

                Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

                 

                Guillaume



              • Bill McNutt
                This is a problem for SCA trestle tables. Most of the period trestle tables I have examined have been massive, and the sheer weight of the two inch thick
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
                  This is a problem for SCA trestle tables.  Most of the period trestle tables I have examined have been massive, and the sheer weight of the two inch thick table top prevented that.
                   
                  Will


                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hall, Hayward
                  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:42 PM
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                  Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

                  Guillaume

                  From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                  Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
                  To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                  Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                  I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

                  I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

                  I've done them like this....if for no other reason
                  that it makes sense and it works...

                  Picture I


                  Picture II

                  Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                  Aude Aliquid Dignum
                  ' Dare Something Worthy '

                • Wade Hutchison
                  Here s one depiction of how the legs were joined to the stretcher. It s from a stained glass window at the Cloister s museum in NYC.
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
                    Here's one depiction of how the legs were joined to the stretcher.
                    It's from a stained glass window at the Cloister's museum in NYC.

                    http://www.redoakleaf.net/Pics/monkeys.jpg

                    I made a set of these that we've used at Pennsic for a couple of years
                    now, and they work very well. The only difference is that I installed
                    cleats on the underside of the table top to keep the top from sliding
                    around. I make the mortises loose enough to knock down at the end of
                    war for ease of transportation.

                    Hope this helps.
                    -----Gille MacDhnouill
                    AEthelmearc.


                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Johnson"
                    <jljonsn9663@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Trestle tables? There are a few depictions of them in period art of
                    > the 14th & 15th century, but the problem is that I haven't seen any
                    > that had a decent enough resolution of or show how they are joined at
                    > the top or into the table top. Problem is: tablecloths! DAMNED
                    > TABLECLOTHS!
                    >
                    > http://www.theluttrells.com/LuttrellsAtTable.html
                    >
                    > You'll see a few photos of conjectural reconstructions that some folks
                    > have made. Some are basic joinery of 3 tapered legs mortised into a
                    > horizontal board, some have webs between the front pair of legs, and
                    > some are complex knock-down assemblies.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "George Irvin" <jmcdade@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > God morning everyone
                    > > I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse
                    > type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)
                    > Anything will help.
                    > > Thank you.
                    > > Geo.
                    > >
                    >
                  • Stan Hunter
                    The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles, with no nasty table-cloths, is attached. Sir Stanford
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
                      The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles, with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                       
                      Sir Stanford


                    • Wolf
                      Swe-e-e-e-t! Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it was made, etc? (a request from SWMBO )
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
                        Swe-e-e-e-t!

                        Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it
                        was made, etc?

                        (a request from SWMBO <g>)

                        On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                        > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                        > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                        >
                        > Sir Stanford
                        >
                      • Hall, Hayward
                        Now all we need are plans for period monkeys. ________________________________
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
                          Now all we need are plans for period monkeys.

                          ________________________________


                          On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                          > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                          > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                          >
                          > Sir Stanford
                          >
                        • Jeff Johnson
                          Why go all the way through the top? I ve played with pegs in the top of the legs and partway though the table top. You don t even need to make the holes in the
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
                            Why go all the way through the top? I've played with pegs in the top
                            of the legs and partway though the table top. You don't even need to
                            make the holes in the bottom of the top very precise - the objective
                            is to pevent the top from sliding more than a inch or two.




                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                            <baronconal@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up
                            > of separate planks....
                            >
                            > It may not be documentable but it probably would work to
                            > hold the outermost planks in place... or all of them for that matter
                            > could be done this way....
                            >
                            > A pin with a shoulder that goes through the top into the
                            > cross bar to hold the two outermost planks in place...
                            > You would just drop it in then push it up from below to remove it
                            >
                            > Drawing link
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                            >
                            > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                            > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            > From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                            > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:26:38 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg
                            >
                            >
                            > Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very
                            > thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least. About
                            > 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced
                            > stability. Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the
                            > trestles. There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the
                            > underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been
                            > modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original
                            > or not. Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a
                            > look at the underside?
                            >
                            > German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or
                            > sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a
                            > different design (and arguably post-medieval) .
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            > Tim
                            >
                            > Hall, Hayward wrote:
                            > Do
                            > you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during
                            > use? I
                            > suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.
                            >
                            > Guillaume
                            >
                          • Jeff Johnson
                            But the surviving ones are mostly later and of afixed to the legs. (No finds of trestles coincides with no finds of trestle tops. :) ) Most of what you see in
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
                              But the surviving ones are mostly later and of afixed to the legs. (No
                              finds of trestles coincides with no finds of trestle tops. :) ) Most
                              of what you see in illustrations seem pretty thin. I suspect it might
                              just be that the simple solution of gravity and friction held table
                              tops in place and that people then knew better than to lean against
                              tables.
                            • Jeff Johnson
                              Wow. I d seen that stained glass image in far less resolution before. I hadn t dreamed it d have that level of detail on the leg. THANK YOU!
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
                                Wow. I'd seen that stained glass image in far less resolution before.
                                I hadn't dreamed it'd have that level of detail on the leg.

                                THANK YOU!

                                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <wolfeyes@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Swe-e-e-e-t!
                                >
                                > Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it
                                > was made, etc?
                                >
                                > (a request from SWMBO <g>)
                                >
                                > On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                                > > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                                > > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                > >
                                > > Sir Stanford
                                > >
                                >
                              • gunwaldt
                                Could someone post this in the files section for those of us who don t receive attachments? thanks, Gunwaldt ... with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jan 13, 2009
                                  Could someone post this in the files section for those of us who don't
                                  receive attachments?

                                  thanks,
                                  Gunwaldt

                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Stan Hunter" <sd_hunter@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                                  with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                  >
                                  > Sir Stanford
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  >
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