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Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

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  • jay sabath
    best source I have is http://www.larsdatter.com/tables.htm Johannes ... -- Lord Johannes Machiavelli Shire of Rokkehealden Kingdom of the Middle
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 7, 2009
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      best source I have is

      http://www.larsdatter.com/tables.htm

      Johannes

      On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:43 AM, George Irvin <jmcdade@...> wrote:

      God morning everyone
      I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)  Anything will help.
      Thank you.
      Geo.



      --
      Lord Johannes Machiavelli
      Shire of Rokkehealden
      Kingdom of the Middle
    • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
      I ve never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done I ve never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece... I ve done them like this....if for no
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 7, 2009
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        I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

        I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

        I've done them like this....if for no other reason
        that it makes sense and it works...

        Picture I


        Picture II

         
        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

        Aude Aliquid Dignum
        ' Dare Something Worthy '



        From: jay sabath <LordJohannes@...>
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:39:13 PM
        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

        best source I have is

        http://www.larsdatt er.com/tables. htm

        Johannes

        On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:43 AM, George Irvin <jmcdade@peoplepc. com> wrote:

        God morning everyone
        I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)  Anything will help.
        Thank you.
        Geo.



        --
        Lord Johannes Machiavelli
        Shire of Rokkehealden
        Kingdom of the Middle

      • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
        by the way that single leg does taper towards the top. It s about a 10 degree angle. Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 7, 2009
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          by the way that single leg does taper
          towards the top. It's about a 10 degree angle.


           
          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

          Aude Aliquid Dignum
          ' Dare Something Worthy '



          From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...>
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 10:47:58 PM
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

          I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

          I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

          I've done them like this....if for no other reason
          that it makes sense and it works...

          Picture I


          Picture II

           
          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

          Aude Aliquid Dignum
          ' Dare Something Worthy '



          From: jay sabath <LordJohannes@ gmail.com>
          To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:39:13 PM
          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

          best source I have is

          http://www.larsdatt er.com/tables. htm

          Johannes

          On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:43 AM, George Irvin <jmcdade@peoplepc. com> wrote:

          God morning everyone
          I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)  Anything will help.
          Thank you.
          Geo.



          --
          Lord Johannes Machiavelli
          Shire of Rokkehealden
          Kingdom of the Middle


        • John LaTorre
          ... Duke Cariodoc has written up his version of the trestle table at http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Other_Articles_II_Furniture.pdf
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
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            George Irvin wrote:

            > God morning everyone
            > I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)
            > Anything will help
            >

            Duke Cariodoc has written up his version of the trestle table at


            http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Other_Articles_II_Furniture.pdf

            --Johann von Drachenfels
            West Kingdom
          • Hall, Hayward
            Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use? I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place. Guillaume From:
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
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              Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

               

              Guillaume

               

              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
              Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

               

              I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

              I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

              I've done them like this....if for no other reason
              that it makes sense and it works...

              Picture I


              Picture II

               

              Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

              Aude Aliquid Dignum
              ' Dare Something Worthy '

               

            • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
              The ones I ve made have an assembled table top. Too many small children in my SCA circles to want to take chances with one bumping the table just the right way
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
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                The ones I've made have an assembled table top.

                Too many small children in my SCA circles to want
                to take chances with one bumping the table just the
                right way to make it fall or lean up against it to get
                one of those cookies while mommy is not watching....

                I've always put a socket/pocket....whatever on the
                underside of the table that the crossbar fits into to
                hold everything in place....

                Table III
                  this picture kinda shows it....

                Table IV shows it a little better


                 
                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                Aude Aliquid Dignum
                ' Dare Something Worthy '



                From: "Hall, Hayward" <hallh@...>
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:41:54 PM
                Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

                 

                Guillaume

                 

                From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
                To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                 

                I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

                I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

                I've done them like this....if for no other reason
                that it makes sense and it works...

                Picture I


                Picture II

                 

                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                Aude Aliquid Dignum
                ' Dare Something Worthy '

                 


              • AlbionWood
                Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least. About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
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                  Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least.  About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced stability.  Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the trestles.  There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original or not.  Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a look at the underside?

                  German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a different design (and arguably post-medieval).

                  Cheers,
                  Tim

                  Hall, Hayward wrote:

                  Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

                   

                  Guillaume


                • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                  An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up of separate planks.... It may not be documentable but it probably would work to hold the
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 8, 2009
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                    An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up
                    of separate planks....

                    It may not be documentable but it probably would work to
                    hold the outermost planks in place... or all of them for that matter
                    could be done this way....

                    A pin with a shoulder that goes through the top into the
                    cross bar to hold the two outermost planks in place...
                    You would just drop it in then push it up from below to remove it

                    Drawing link



                     
                    Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                    Aude Aliquid Dignum
                    ' Dare Something Worthy '



                    From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:26:38 PM
                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                    Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least.  About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced stability.  Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the trestles.  There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original or not.  Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a look at the underside?

                    German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a different design (and arguably post-medieval) .

                    Cheers,
                    Tim

                    Hall, Hayward wrote:

                    Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

                     

                    Guillaume



                  • Bill McNutt
                    This is a problem for SCA trestle tables. Most of the period trestle tables I have examined have been massive, and the sheer weight of the two inch thick
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
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                      This is a problem for SCA trestle tables.  Most of the period trestle tables I have examined have been massive, and the sheer weight of the two inch thick table top prevented that.
                       
                      Will


                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hall, Hayward
                      Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:42 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                      Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

                      Guillaume

                      From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                      I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

                      I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

                      I've done them like this....if for no other reason
                      that it makes sense and it works...

                      Picture I


                      Picture II

                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                      Aude Aliquid Dignum
                      ' Dare Something Worthy '

                    • Wade Hutchison
                      Here s one depiction of how the legs were joined to the stretcher. It s from a stained glass window at the Cloister s museum in NYC.
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
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                        Here's one depiction of how the legs were joined to the stretcher.
                        It's from a stained glass window at the Cloister's museum in NYC.

                        http://www.redoakleaf.net/Pics/monkeys.jpg

                        I made a set of these that we've used at Pennsic for a couple of years
                        now, and they work very well. The only difference is that I installed
                        cleats on the underside of the table top to keep the top from sliding
                        around. I make the mortises loose enough to knock down at the end of
                        war for ease of transportation.

                        Hope this helps.
                        -----Gille MacDhnouill
                        AEthelmearc.


                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Johnson"
                        <jljonsn9663@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Trestle tables? There are a few depictions of them in period art of
                        > the 14th & 15th century, but the problem is that I haven't seen any
                        > that had a decent enough resolution of or show how they are joined at
                        > the top or into the table top. Problem is: tablecloths! DAMNED
                        > TABLECLOTHS!
                        >
                        > http://www.theluttrells.com/LuttrellsAtTable.html
                        >
                        > You'll see a few photos of conjectural reconstructions that some folks
                        > have made. Some are basic joinery of 3 tapered legs mortised into a
                        > horizontal board, some have webs between the front pair of legs, and
                        > some are complex knock-down assemblies.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "George Irvin" <jmcdade@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > God morning everyone
                        > > I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse
                        > type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)
                        > Anything will help.
                        > > Thank you.
                        > > Geo.
                        > >
                        >
                      • Stan Hunter
                        The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles, with no nasty table-cloths, is attached. Sir Stanford
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
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                          The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles, with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                           
                          Sir Stanford


                        • Wolf
                          Swe-e-e-e-t! Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it was made, etc? (a request from SWMBO )
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
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                            Swe-e-e-e-t!

                            Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it
                            was made, etc?

                            (a request from SWMBO <g>)

                            On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                            > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                            > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                            >
                            > Sir Stanford
                            >
                          • Hall, Hayward
                            Now all we need are plans for period monkeys. ________________________________
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 9, 2009
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                              Now all we need are plans for period monkeys.

                              ________________________________


                              On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                              > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                              > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                              >
                              > Sir Stanford
                              >
                            • Jeff Johnson
                              Why go all the way through the top? I ve played with pegs in the top of the legs and partway though the table top. You don t even need to make the holes in the
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
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                                Why go all the way through the top? I've played with pegs in the top
                                of the legs and partway though the table top. You don't even need to
                                make the holes in the bottom of the top very precise - the objective
                                is to pevent the top from sliding more than a inch or two.




                                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                <baronconal@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up
                                > of separate planks....
                                >
                                > It may not be documentable but it probably would work to
                                > hold the outermost planks in place... or all of them for that matter
                                > could be done this way....
                                >
                                > A pin with a shoulder that goes through the top into the
                                > cross bar to hold the two outermost planks in place...
                                > You would just drop it in then push it up from below to remove it
                                >
                                > Drawing link
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                                >
                                > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                                > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:26:38 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg
                                >
                                >
                                > Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very
                                > thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least. About
                                > 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced
                                > stability. Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the
                                > trestles. There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the
                                > underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been
                                > modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original
                                > or not. Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a
                                > look at the underside?
                                >
                                > German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or
                                > sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a
                                > different design (and arguably post-medieval) .
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                > Tim
                                >
                                > Hall, Hayward wrote:
                                > Do
                                > you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during
                                > use? I
                                > suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.
                                >
                                > Guillaume
                                >
                              • Jeff Johnson
                                But the surviving ones are mostly later and of afixed to the legs. (No finds of trestles coincides with no finds of trestle tops. :) ) Most of what you see in
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
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                                  But the surviving ones are mostly later and of afixed to the legs. (No
                                  finds of trestles coincides with no finds of trestle tops. :) ) Most
                                  of what you see in illustrations seem pretty thin. I suspect it might
                                  just be that the simple solution of gravity and friction held table
                                  tops in place and that people then knew better than to lean against
                                  tables.
                                • Jeff Johnson
                                  Wow. I d seen that stained glass image in far less resolution before. I hadn t dreamed it d have that level of detail on the leg. THANK YOU!
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jan 12, 2009
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                                    Wow. I'd seen that stained glass image in far less resolution before.
                                    I hadn't dreamed it'd have that level of detail on the leg.

                                    THANK YOU!

                                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <wolfeyes@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Swe-e-e-e-t!
                                    >
                                    > Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it
                                    > was made, etc?
                                    >
                                    > (a request from SWMBO <g>)
                                    >
                                    > On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                                    > > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                                    > > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                    > >
                                    > > Sir Stanford
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • gunwaldt
                                    Could someone post this in the files section for those of us who don t receive attachments? thanks, Gunwaldt ... with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jan 13, 2009
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                                      Could someone post this in the files section for those of us who don't
                                      receive attachments?

                                      thanks,
                                      Gunwaldt

                                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Stan Hunter" <sd_hunter@...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                                      with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                      >
                                      > Sir Stanford
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                      >
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