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Re: a woodworkers Christmas Carol.

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  • bayard_turner
    Feel free - I wrote it for the MinnDak Woodturners in Fargo, ND/Moorhead, MN. When I hang with them, I go by my mundane name - Ron Williams.
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 1 8:44 PM
      Feel free - I wrote it for the MinnDak Woodturners in Fargo,
      ND/Moorhead, MN. When I hang with them, I go by my mundane name - Ron
      Williams.

      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph Lindberg" <n7bsn@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "bayard_turner" <williams@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > I wrote this for my turning club's Christmas party last year.
      > >
      > > "Grandpa's gone!", shouted Pat, as he ran down the hall.
      > > "He's missing, he's vanished. He's nowhere at all!
      > > Pat rifled the kitchen, he opened each cupboard,
      > > He looked in the oven, and finally he blubbered,
      > >
      >
      > That's rather good, I would like to use that in my turning club's
      > newsletter if I could...(our Christmas party got delayed to January,
      > again... 2nd year in a row)
      >
      > Ralg
      > AnTir
      >
    • George Irvin
      God morning everyone I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 6 9:43 AM
        God morning everyone
        I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)  Anything will help.
        Thank you.
        Geo.
      • Jeff Johnson
        Trestle tables? There are a few depictions of them in period art of the 14th & 15th century, but the problem is that I haven t seen any that had a decent
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 7 5:02 PM
          Trestle tables? There are a few depictions of them in period art of
          the 14th & 15th century, but the problem is that I haven't seen any
          that had a decent enough resolution of or show how they are joined at
          the top or into the table top. Problem is: tablecloths! DAMNED
          TABLECLOTHS!

          http://www.theluttrells.com/LuttrellsAtTable.html

          You'll see a few photos of conjectural reconstructions that some folks
          have made. Some are basic joinery of 3 tapered legs mortised into a
          horizontal board, some have webs between the front pair of legs, and
          some are complex knock-down assemblies.



          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "George Irvin" <jmcdade@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > God morning everyone
          > I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse
          type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)
          Anything will help.
          > Thank you.
          > Geo.
          >
        • jay sabath
          best source I have is http://www.larsdatter.com/tables.htm Johannes ... -- Lord Johannes Machiavelli Shire of Rokkehealden Kingdom of the Middle
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 7 6:39 PM
            best source I have is

            http://www.larsdatter.com/tables.htm

            Johannes

            On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:43 AM, George Irvin <jmcdade@...> wrote:

            God morning everyone
            I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)  Anything will help.
            Thank you.
            Geo.



            --
            Lord Johannes Machiavelli
            Shire of Rokkehealden
            Kingdom of the Middle
          • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
            I ve never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done I ve never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece... I ve done them like this....if for no
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 7 7:47 PM
              I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

              I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

              I've done them like this....if for no other reason
              that it makes sense and it works...

              Picture I


              Picture II

               
              Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

              Aude Aliquid Dignum
              ' Dare Something Worthy '



              From: jay sabath <LordJohannes@...>
              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:39:13 PM
              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

              best source I have is

              http://www.larsdatt er.com/tables. htm

              Johannes

              On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:43 AM, George Irvin <jmcdade@peoplepc. com> wrote:

              God morning everyone
              I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)  Anything will help.
              Thank you.
              Geo.



              --
              Lord Johannes Machiavelli
              Shire of Rokkehealden
              Kingdom of the Middle

            • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
              by the way that single leg does taper towards the top. It s about a 10 degree angle. Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 7 8:34 PM
                by the way that single leg does taper
                towards the top. It's about a 10 degree angle.


                 
                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                Aude Aliquid Dignum
                ' Dare Something Worthy '



                From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...>
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 10:47:58 PM
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

                I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

                I've done them like this....if for no other reason
                that it makes sense and it works...

                Picture I


                Picture II

                 
                Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                Aude Aliquid Dignum
                ' Dare Something Worthy '



                From: jay sabath <LordJohannes@ gmail.com>
                To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Wednesday, January 7, 2009 9:39:13 PM
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                best source I have is

                http://www.larsdatt er.com/tables. htm

                Johannes

                On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:43 AM, George Irvin <jmcdade@peoplepc. com> wrote:

                God morning everyone
                I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)  Anything will help.
                Thank you.
                Geo.



                --
                Lord Johannes Machiavelli
                Shire of Rokkehealden
                Kingdom of the Middle


              • John LaTorre
                ... Duke Cariodoc has written up his version of the trestle table at http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Other_Articles_II_Furniture.pdf
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 8 9:54 AM
                  George Irvin wrote:

                  > God morning everyone
                  > I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)
                  > Anything will help
                  >

                  Duke Cariodoc has written up his version of the trestle table at


                  http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Other_Articles_II_Furniture.pdf

                  --Johann von Drachenfels
                  West Kingdom
                • Hall, Hayward
                  Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use? I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place. Guillaume From:
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 8 2:41 PM

                    Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

                     

                    Guillaume

                     

                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                    Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                     

                    I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

                    I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

                    I've done them like this....if for no other reason
                    that it makes sense and it works...

                    Picture I


                    Picture II

                     

                    Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                    Aude Aliquid Dignum
                    ' Dare Something Worthy '

                     

                  • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                    The ones I ve made have an assembled table top. Too many small children in my SCA circles to want to take chances with one bumping the table just the right way
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 8 3:36 PM
                      The ones I've made have an assembled table top.

                      Too many small children in my SCA circles to want
                      to take chances with one bumping the table just the
                      right way to make it fall or lean up against it to get
                      one of those cookies while mommy is not watching....

                      I've always put a socket/pocket....whatever on the
                      underside of the table that the crossbar fits into to
                      hold everything in place....

                      Table III
                        this picture kinda shows it....

                      Table IV shows it a little better


                       
                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                      Aude Aliquid Dignum
                      ' Dare Something Worthy '



                      From: "Hall, Hayward" <hallh@...>
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 5:41:54 PM
                      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                      Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

                       

                      Guillaume

                       

                      From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                      Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                       

                      I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

                      I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

                      I've done them like this....if for no other reason
                      that it makes sense and it works...

                      Picture I


                      Picture II

                       

                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                      Aude Aliquid Dignum
                      ' Dare Something Worthy '

                       


                    • AlbionWood
                      Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least. About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jan 8 4:26 PM
                        Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least.  About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced stability.  Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the trestles.  There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original or not.  Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a look at the underside?

                        German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a different design (and arguably post-medieval).

                        Cheers,
                        Tim

                        Hall, Hayward wrote:

                        Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

                         

                        Guillaume


                      • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                        An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up of separate planks.... It may not be documentable but it probably would work to hold the
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jan 8 5:05 PM
                          An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up
                          of separate planks....

                          It may not be documentable but it probably would work to
                          hold the outermost planks in place... or all of them for that matter
                          could be done this way....

                          A pin with a shoulder that goes through the top into the
                          cross bar to hold the two outermost planks in place...
                          You would just drop it in then push it up from below to remove it

                          Drawing link



                           
                          Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                          Aude Aliquid Dignum
                          ' Dare Something Worthy '



                          From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:26:38 PM
                          Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                          Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least.  About 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced stability.  Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the trestles.  There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original or not.  Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a look at the underside?

                          German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a different design (and arguably post-medieval) .

                          Cheers,
                          Tim

                          Hall, Hayward wrote:

                          Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

                           

                          Guillaume



                        • Bill McNutt
                          This is a problem for SCA trestle tables. Most of the period trestle tables I have examined have been massive, and the sheer weight of the two inch thick
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jan 9 7:23 AM
                            This is a problem for SCA trestle tables.  Most of the period trestle tables I have examined have been massive, and the sheer weight of the two inch thick table top prevented that.
                             
                            Will


                            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hall, Hayward
                            Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:42 PM
                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                            Do you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during use?  I suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.

                            Guillaume

                            From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:48 PM
                            To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg

                            I've never seen anythiung that could tell you how they were done

                            I've never heard even a rumor of a surviving piece...

                            I've done them like this....if for no other reason
                            that it makes sense and it works...

                            Picture I


                            Picture II

                            Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                            Aude Aliquid Dignum
                            ' Dare Something Worthy '

                          • Wade Hutchison
                            Here s one depiction of how the legs were joined to the stretcher. It s from a stained glass window at the Cloister s museum in NYC.
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jan 9 11:46 AM
                              Here's one depiction of how the legs were joined to the stretcher.
                              It's from a stained glass window at the Cloister's museum in NYC.

                              http://www.redoakleaf.net/Pics/monkeys.jpg

                              I made a set of these that we've used at Pennsic for a couple of years
                              now, and they work very well. The only difference is that I installed
                              cleats on the underside of the table top to keep the top from sliding
                              around. I make the mortises loose enough to knock down at the end of
                              war for ease of transportation.

                              Hope this helps.
                              -----Gille MacDhnouill
                              AEthelmearc.


                              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Johnson"
                              <jljonsn9663@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Trestle tables? There are a few depictions of them in period art of
                              > the 14th & 15th century, but the problem is that I haven't seen any
                              > that had a decent enough resolution of or show how they are joined at
                              > the top or into the table top. Problem is: tablecloths! DAMNED
                              > TABLECLOTHS!
                              >
                              > http://www.theluttrells.com/LuttrellsAtTable.html
                              >
                              > You'll see a few photos of conjectural reconstructions that some folks
                              > have made. Some are basic joinery of 3 tapered legs mortised into a
                              > horizontal board, some have webs between the front pair of legs, and
                              > some are complex knock-down assemblies.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "George Irvin" <jmcdade@>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > God morning everyone
                              > > I was wondering if someone could point me to info on those Saw horse
                              > type table legs arrangements( sorry not sure of thier proper name)
                              > Anything will help.
                              > > Thank you.
                              > > Geo.
                              > >
                              >
                            • Stan Hunter
                              The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles, with no nasty table-cloths, is attached. Sir Stanford
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jan 9 7:25 PM
                                The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles, with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                 
                                Sir Stanford


                              • Wolf
                                Swe-e-e-e-t! Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it was made, etc? (a request from SWMBO )
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jan 9 9:32 PM
                                  Swe-e-e-e-t!

                                  Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it
                                  was made, etc?

                                  (a request from SWMBO <g>)

                                  On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                                  > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                                  > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                  >
                                  > Sir Stanford
                                  >
                                • Hall, Hayward
                                  Now all we need are plans for period monkeys. ________________________________
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jan 9 9:52 PM
                                    Now all we need are plans for period monkeys.

                                    ________________________________


                                    On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                                    > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                                    > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                    >
                                    > Sir Stanford
                                    >
                                  • Jeff Johnson
                                    Why go all the way through the top? I ve played with pegs in the top of the legs and partway though the table top. You don t even need to make the holes in the
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jan 12 2:28 PM
                                      Why go all the way through the top? I've played with pegs in the top
                                      of the legs and partway though the table top. You don't even need to
                                      make the holes in the bottom of the top very precise - the objective
                                      is to pevent the top from sliding more than a inch or two.




                                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                      <baronconal@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > An idea just came to me..... at least for a table top made up
                                      > of separate planks....
                                      >
                                      > It may not be documentable but it probably would work to
                                      > hold the outermost planks in place... or all of them for that matter
                                      > could be done this way....
                                      >
                                      > A pin with a shoulder that goes through the top into the
                                      > cross bar to hold the two outermost planks in place...
                                      > You would just drop it in then push it up from below to remove it
                                      >
                                      > Drawing link
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                                      >
                                      > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                      > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ________________________________
                                      > From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                                      > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 7:26:38 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Table leg
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Medieval trestle tabletops appear to have been very
                                      > thick and heavy - the few surviving ones are, at least. About
                                      > 1.5 to 2 inches thick, oak, 2 or 3 feet wide... lot of gravity-induced
                                      > stability. Still I've always suspected some form of attachment to the
                                      > trestles. There's a 15th c. table in Bruges that has cleats on the
                                      > underside to attach the top to the trestles, but it's also been
                                      > modified several times, so I have no way to tell if those are original
                                      > or not. Don't know about the Penshurst table - anybody here gotten a
                                      > look at the underside?
                                      >
                                      > German trestle tables from ca. 1500 often have dovetail cleats or
                                      > sliding dovetails to attach the top to the trestles, but those are a
                                      > different design (and arguably post-medieval) .
                                      >
                                      > Cheers,
                                      > Tim
                                      >
                                      > Hall, Hayward wrote:
                                      > Do
                                      > you have much problem with the unattached top sliding about during
                                      > use? I
                                      > suppose a heavy tablecloth would help keep things in place.
                                      >
                                      > Guillaume
                                      >
                                    • Jeff Johnson
                                      But the surviving ones are mostly later and of afixed to the legs. (No finds of trestles coincides with no finds of trestle tops. :) ) Most of what you see in
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jan 12 2:44 PM
                                        But the surviving ones are mostly later and of afixed to the legs. (No
                                        finds of trestles coincides with no finds of trestle tops. :) ) Most
                                        of what you see in illustrations seem pretty thin. I suspect it might
                                        just be that the simple solution of gravity and friction held table
                                        tops in place and that people then knew better than to lean against
                                        tables.
                                      • Jeff Johnson
                                        Wow. I d seen that stained glass image in far less resolution before. I hadn t dreamed it d have that level of detail on the leg. THANK YOU!
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jan 12 2:47 PM
                                          Wow. I'd seen that stained glass image in far less resolution before.
                                          I hadn't dreamed it'd have that level of detail on the leg.

                                          THANK YOU!

                                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <wolfeyes@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Swe-e-e-e-t!
                                          >
                                          > Beautiful window, do you know anything about it? Where it is, when it
                                          > was made, etc?
                                          >
                                          > (a request from SWMBO <g>)
                                          >
                                          > On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:25 -0500, Stan Hunter wrote:
                                          > > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                                          > > with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                          > >
                                          > > Sir Stanford
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • gunwaldt
                                          Could someone post this in the files section for those of us who don t receive attachments? thanks, Gunwaldt ... with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jan 13 6:20 AM
                                            Could someone post this in the files section for those of us who don't
                                            receive attachments?

                                            thanks,
                                            Gunwaldt

                                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Stan Hunter" <sd_hunter@...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > The best image I know of showing the construction of table trestles,
                                            with no nasty table-cloths, is attached.
                                            >
                                            > Sir Stanford
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            >
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