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Re: enlarging a 1 1/4 inch hole

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  • Eric
    Yep, that is the way I understood it. I was suggesting using a swept chisel to carve the hole *larger*, then smooth it out with sandpaper. YIS, Eirikr ... the
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 3, 2008
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      Yep, that is the way I understood it. I was suggesting using a
      swept chisel to carve the hole *larger*, then smooth it out with
      sandpaper.

      YIS,
      Eirikr

      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Wolf <wolfeyes@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ummmmmmmmm.......
      >
      > Wasn't the original question to make the hole *larger*, not make
      the
      > pole *smaller*?
      >
      > Or did I misunderstand Conal?
      >
      > On Fri, 2008-10-03 at 17:36 +0000, Eric wrote:
      > > If you don't want to shave the pole, I agree with the sandpaper
      > > suggestion. I'd probably grab a chisel with a broad sweep to
      clear
      > > the bulk of the material (should be pretty easy to clear 1/16)
      then
      > > finish up with sandpaper.
      > >
      > > Next stand, buy the poles before you drill... :)
      > >
      > > Eirikr
      > >
    • Bill Mauldin
      I would go with a drum sander on a portable drill. It might take a little while but would be better than a drill bit that has nothing to stabilize and keep it
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 4, 2008
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        I would go with a drum sander on a portable drill. It might take a
        little while but would be better than a drill bit that has nothing to
        stabilize and keep it centered.

        Geffrei Subject: [MedievalSawdust] enlarging a 1 1/4 inch hole
        > I've drilled a 1 1/4" hols into the center
        > section of a banner stand, using a spade bit
        > to about 5 inches deep
        > The pole that were purchased for the banner
        > stands are 1 3/8 inch.
        > Easy ideas for enlarging the hole? ( safely
        > and neatly? ) We are only talking about taking
        > off a 1/16 inch around the diameter of the hole.
        > I know it's not that much
        >
        > Looking for something that is not so time
        > consuming that buying new poles is not
        > a better idea....

        > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
      • Craig Robert Pierpont
        Use a router bit with a bearing 1/16 smaller than the bit, like a rabbeting set-up. Enlarge the holes from one side about 1/2 the way through. Then use a flush
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 4, 2008
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          Use a router bit with a bearing 1/16 smaller than the bit, like a rabbeting set-up. Enlarge the holes from one side about 1/2 the way through. Then use a flush trimming bit to do the other side. It's the way a medieval woodworker would have done it and no I can't document that. I just know it in my bones.


          Craig Robert


          Craig R. Pierpont
          Another Era Lutherie
          www.anotherera.com


        • Alex Flinsch
          ... If you have a set of hole saws, mount the 1 1/4 inch one inside of the 1 3/8 inch one (some sets will let you do this), and then use the smaller (inner)
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 4, 2008
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            On Oct 3, 2008, at 12:15 PM, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart wrote:



            Easy ideas for enlarging the hole? ( safely 
            and neatly? ) We are only talking about taking
            off a 1/16 inch around the diameter of the hole.
            I know it's not that much



            If you have a set of hole saws, mount the 1 1/4 inch one inside of the 1 3/8 inch one (some sets will let you do this), and then use the smaller (inner) saw as a guide for the larger one.


          • julian wilson
            Um - my time is worth more to me than the cost of a replacement length of Dowelling. So, if it was me, as a professional woodworker, I d either replace the
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 4, 2008
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              Um - my time is worth more to me than the cost of a replacement length of Dowelling.
              So, if it was me, as a professional woodworker, I'd either replace the staff dowelling, or make a new banner-base central workpiece.
              However, as a practical problem to solve - and given the equipment I have at my disposal , available in my workshop, - I think I'd set the workpiece up under my floor-standing-pillar-drill, - very carefully "centred" and well clamped in place, and - with the drill running at the kind of slow speed I use for drilling metal, - enlarge first section of the bore with a Forstner bit to the max depth of the bit-shank; - then change to a newly-sharpened flat-bit of the same size, but a long-shank, and finish the boring from the same end with that.
              Enlarging the first section of the bore with a Forstner bit will make lining-up the flat-bit for the second "pass" much easier.
              I certainly wouldn't try enlarging the bore with a hand-held power-tool.
              And the problem I see with trying to use a plunge-router  and a cutter with a bottom bearing is the depth available for the "plunge", plus the second-"set-up" to come at the undersized bore from the other end. Our questioner needed to go to a 5- or 6- inch total depth, IIRC.

              In service to the medieval Dream,
              Matthew Baker
              in the SCA
              [aka Julian Wilson, in 2008]

               
            • Eric Hess
              ... Personally, I d use a router and a circular hole with a guide bushing. Double-stick tape it to the top, enlarge the hole, and with the newly created large
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 5, 2008
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                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                <baronconal@...> wrote:
                >
                > I've drilled a 1 1/4" hols into the center
                > section of a banner stand, using a spade bit
                > to about 5 inches deep
                >
                > The pole that were purchased for the banner
                > stands are 1 3/8 inch.
                >
                > Easy ideas for enlarging the hole? ( safely
                > and neatly? ) We are only talking about taking
                > off a 1/16 inch around the diameter of the hole.
                > I know it's not that much
                >
                > Looking for something that is not so time
                > consuming that buying new poles is not
                > a better idea....
                >
                > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                >
                > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                >

                Personally, I'd use a router and a circular hole with a guide
                bushing. Double-stick tape it to the top, enlarge the hole, and with
                the newly created large circle, go in with a forstner bit and take it
                to the full size. A pattern bit should do the trick nicely.
              • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy ... From: Eric Hess To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 5, 2008
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                  Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                  Aude Aliquid Dignum
                  ' Dare Something Worthy '


                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Eric Hess <ejhess@...>
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 4:01:32 AM
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: enlarging a 1 1/4 inch hole

                  --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                  <baronconal@ ...> wrote:

                  >
                  > I've drilled a 1 1/4" hols into the center
                  > section of a banner stand, using a spade bit
                  > to about 5 inches deep
                  >
                  > The pole that were purchased for the banner
                  > stands are 1 3/8 inch.
                  >
                  > Easy ideas for enlarging the hole? ( safely
                  > and neatly? ) We are only talking about taking
                  > off a 1/16 inch around the diameter of the hole.
                  > I know it's not that much
                  >
                  > Looking for something that is not so time
                  > consuming that buying new poles is not
                  > a better idea....
                  >
                  > Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart
                  >
                  > Aude Aliquid Dignum
                  > ' Dare Something Worthy '
                  >

                  Personally, I'd use a router and a circular hole with a guide
                  bushing. Double-stick tape it to the top, enlarge the hole, and with
                  the newly created large circle, go in with a forstner bit and take it
                  to the full size. A pattern bit should do the trick nicely.


                • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                  as a practical problem.... I could make them over.... Wouldn t be all that hard I just didn t want to waste the centers. Remember I did say easy in the
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 5, 2008
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                    as a practical problem....

                    I could make them over.... Wouldn't be all that hard I just
                    didn't want to waste the centers.

                    Remember I did say 'easy' in the original question. There is
                    a threshold for starting over. I'm just wondering if that point
                    is where I think it is and was looking for other ideas. Something
                    I may not have thought of.

                    (  a detail I should have shared )
                    I used a larger ( off the top of my head I do not recall the size )
                    round-over router bit on the rim of the center hole already so
                    there is not sharp edge to used to line up a router bit.

                    I think I'm gonna plug the top of the hole and redrill with
                    a new flat/spade bit ( I didn't have a 1 3/8" bit anyway so
                    this was an excuse to buy a new one )


                     
                    Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                    Aude Aliquid Dignum
                    ' Dare Something Worthy '


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: julian wilson <smnco37@...>
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, October 4, 2008 2:53:56 PM
                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re:enlarging a 1 1/4 inch hole

                    Um - my time is worth more to me than the cost of a replacement length of Dowelling.
                    So, if it was me, as a professional woodworker, I'd either replace the staff dowelling, or make a new banner-base central workpiece.
                    However, as a practical problem to solve - and given the equipment I have at my disposal , available in my workshop, - I think I'd set the workpiece up under my floor-standing- pillar-drill, - very carefully "centred" and well clamped in place, and - with the drill running at the kind of slow speed I use for drilling metal, - enlarge first section of the bore with a Forstner bit to the max depth of the bit-shank; - then change to a newly-sharpened flat-bit of the same size, but a long-shank, and finish the boring from the same end with that.
                    Enlarging the first section of the bore with a Forstner bit will make lining-up the flat-bit for the second "pass" much easier.
                    I certainly wouldn't try enlarging the bore with a hand-held power-tool.
                    And the problem I see with trying to use a plunge-router  and a cutter with a bottom bearing is the depth available for the "plunge", plus the second-"set- up" to come at the undersized bore from the other end. Our questioner needed to go to a 5- or 6- inch total depth, IIRC.

                    In service to the medieval Dream,
                    Matthew Baker
                    in the SCA
                    [aka Julian Wilson, in 2008]

                     


                  • logan
                    safest bet and sure to yield the best results. regards logan I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell. Harry S Truman
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 5, 2008
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                      safest bet and sure to yield the best results.

                       

                      regards

                      logan

                       

                      "I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell."
                      Harry S Truman

                       

                      "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared"

                      Niccolo Machiavelli

                      www.ebonwoulfe.com


                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                      Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:22 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] enlarging a 1 1/4 inch hole

                       

                      I've thought of that.... I was hoping to find an easy way to
                      alter the hole instead of the pole....

                      What do you guys think about plugging the hole
                      with a piece of 1 1/4 and re-drilling?

                      I'm not very confident about using a 1 3/8 spade bit
                      without something for the point to hit and use as a
                      'guide' to help keep it from catching and tearing up
                      the hole....

                       

                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                      Aude Aliquid Dignum
                      ' Dare Something Worthy '

                       

                       

                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Rebekah d'Avignon <rebekahdavignon@ yahoo.com>
                      To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Friday, October 3, 2008 1:11:40 PM
                      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] enlarging a 1 1/4 inch hole

                      That would work or you could hold a piece of sandpaper in one hand, wrap it around the end of the pole and turn the pole like sharpening a pencil. 1/16 of an inch isn't much.

                      Joseph Paul <josephnjody@ sbcglobal. net> wrote:

                      Thin down the poles with a spoke shave and mark "This end up" on the other end.

                       

                      Jamie Blackrose

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com]On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                      Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 12:16 PM
                      To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] enlarging a 1 1/4 inch hole

                      I've drilled a 1 1/4" hols into the center
                      section of a banner stand, using a spade bit
                      to about 5 inches deep

                      The pole that were purchased for the banner
                      stands are 1 3/8 inch.

                      Easy ideas for enlarging the hole? ( safely
                      and neatly? ) We are only talking about taking
                      off a 1/16 inch around the diameter of the hole.
                      I know it's not that much

                      Looking for something that is not so time
                      consuming that buying new poles is not
                      a better idea.... 

                       

                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                      Aude Aliquid Dignum

                      ' Dare Something Worthy '



                      RdA

                      Tools alone do not a craftsman make.

                       

                    • James Winkler
                      Well... let s see: A: highly trained termites B: rat-tail rasp C: *really* careful work with a very narrow chisle D: do that shave the spoke thing... best
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 5, 2008
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                        Well... let's see:
                         
                        A: highly trained termites
                        B: rat-tail rasp
                        C: *really* careful work with a very narrow chisle
                        D: do that "shave the spoke" thing...  best option in my opinion
                        ...
                         
                        Of course... there is the semi-excessive path of making a thin tapered dowel on the ol' lathe and then doing that sand paper trick (with a hole drilled through the taper so that you can fix a shank in there to mount to your drill press)...
                         
                        F: A combination of the semi-excessive path followed by careful application of "B" to remove the "hump" that would be left in the center of the bore..
                         
                        ... ummm HOW thick is the piece you drilled undersized???
                         
                        G: Laser (... ok... THAT is excessive... but would be cool...)
                        H: Ummm...  you could BURN IT with a heated rod of the right size...
                        I:  Use a twist bit and REAL careful centering of a well secured workpiece.   Center by mounting the original drill bit in the drill...  insert in existing hole...  clamp... remove existing... insert twist drill...  bore...
                         
                        ... 'about all I can come up with at the moment...
                         
                        ... of course, you could always accidently misplace the original piece and simply remake it... ;-)
                         
                        J:  Ummm...  you could PLUG the orginal holes (glue in the plug)... and THEN re-drill...
                         
                        ... nope... that's about it...  I'm kinda' out of ideas at this point... 
                         
                        K:  you could...  ummm... nope... that wouldn't work...  never mind...
                         
                         
                         
                        Chas.
                      • Wolf
                        On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 12:42 -0500, James Winkler wrote: ... What, a small thermo-nuclear device? That d work, but if you mis-calculate just a tiny bit,
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 5, 2008
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                          On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 12:42 -0500, James Winkler wrote:

                          <snip>
                          >
                          > K: you could... ummm... nope... that wouldn't work... never mind...
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Chas.
                          >

                          What, a small thermo-nuclear device? That'd work, but if you
                          mis-calculate just a tiny bit, all you'd end up with is glow-in-the-dark
                          toothpicks...
                        • Royce
                          That d be real cool. I d buy those.. You can never find a good toothpick late at night when ya reeeaaaalllly need one. Bercilak From:
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 5, 2008
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                            That’d be real cool…

                             

                            I’d buy those..  You can never find a good toothpick late at night when ya reeeaaaalllly need one…

                             

                            Bercilak

                             

                             

                            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wolf
                            Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 7:08 PM
                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] enlarging a 1 1/4 inch hole

                             

                            On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 12:42 -0500, James Winkler wrote:

                            <snip>

                            >
                            > K: you could... ummm... nope... that wouldn't work... never mind...
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Chas.
                            >

                            What, a small thermo-nuclear device? That'd work, but if you
                            mis-calculate just a tiny bit, all you'd end up with is glow-in-the-dark
                            toothpicks...

                          • James Winkler
                            mind reader!!! ;-) Chas. ================== On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 12:42 -0500, James Winkler wrote: ... What, a small thermo-nuclear device? That d
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 5, 2008
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                              … mind reader!!!     ;-)

                               

                              Chas.

                              ==================

                              On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 12:42 -0500, James Winkler wrote:

                              <snip>

                              >
                              > K: you could... ummm... nope... that wouldn't work... never mind...
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Chas.
                              >

                              What, a small thermo-nuclear device? That'd work, but if you
                              mis-calculate just a tiny bit, all you'd end up with is glow-in-the-dark
                              toothpicks...

                               

                            • Ted Kocot
                              Just so I know, is this end grain we re cutting? Is it through or stopped? If you have a bit of the right size, I d kind of use your idea, only I d cut a kerf
                              Message 14 of 26 , Oct 6, 2008
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                                Just so I know, is this end grain we're cutting? Is it through or
                                stopped?

                                If you have a bit of the right size, I'd kind of use your idea, only
                                I'd cut a kerf in the end of my piece of dowel (and drill a hole
                                though the bottom) and then attach this plug to my drill bit. It will
                                have to be pretty carefully centered but it will save you having to
                                drill out all that wood twice.

                                If you don't have the drill bit, what I would try is making something
                                like a scratch stock out of a cheap Xacto-gouge blade and a piece of
                                one inch dowel.

                                Avery
                              • Alessandro dEste
                                ... Chas could you exsplain this. Sandro
                                Message 15 of 26 , Oct 6, 2008
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                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, James Winkler <jrwinkler@...>
                                  wrote:

                                  > D: do that "shave the spoke" thing... best option in my opinion
                                  > ...

                                  > Chas.
                                  >

                                  Chas could you exsplain this.
                                  Sandro
                                • James Winkler
                                  ;-) The spoke shave thing I refered to was basically using a spoke shave to taper the ends of the dowels to fit the existing holes rather than enlarging
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Oct 6, 2008
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                                    ;-)    The “spoke shave thing” I refered to was basically using a spoke shave to taper the ends of the dowels to fit the existing holes rather than enlarging the holes…   (-:    Not exactly the desired form of solution… but a practical one none the less…

                                     

                                    Commercial tapered reamers *might* be useful… but most of them I’ve seen have a relatively sever taper…  my suggestion  for turning a taper was to make it gentle enough that, by working from both sides of the plank, you’d have minimal material in the center to remove  (running a taper in from both sides of the hole would create a bit of an “hourglass” effect on the hole.  

                                     

                                    Chas.

                                     

                                    ==================

                                    > D: do that "shave the spoke" thing... best option in my opinion
                                    > ...

                                    > Chas.
                                    >

                                    Chas could you exsplain this.
                                    Sandro

                                     

                                  • Bill Schongar (bschonga)
                                    Use a 1 drum sander chucked in a drill or a drill press. Or if you have some of the old pole, glue it into the old hole and then redrill. -Liam
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Oct 6, 2008
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                                      Use a 1" drum sander chucked in a drill or a drill press.
                                       
                                      Or if you have some of the "old" pole, glue it into the old hole and then redrill.
                                       
                                      -Liam
                                       
                                       
                                       


                                      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                                      Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 8:10 AM
                                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re:enlarging a 1 1/4 inch hole

                                      as a practical problem....

                                      I could make them over.... Wouldn't be all that hard I just
                                      didn't want to waste the centers.

                                      Remember I did say 'easy' in the original question. There is
                                      a threshold for starting over. I'm just wondering if that point
                                      is where I think it is and was looking for other ideas. Something
                                      I may not have thought of.

                                      (  a detail I should have shared )
                                      I used a larger ( off the top of my head I do not recall the size )
                                      round-over router bit on the rim of the center hole already so
                                      there is not sharp edge to used to line up a router bit.

                                      I think I'm gonna plug the top of the hole and redrill with
                                      a new flat/spade bit ( I didn't have a 1 3/8" bit anyway so
                                      this was an excuse to buy a new one )


                                       
                                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                                      Aude Aliquid Dignum
                                      ' Dare Something Worthy '


                                      ----- Original Message ----
                                      From: julian wilson <smnco37@yahoo. co.uk>
                                      To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                                      Sent: Saturday, October 4, 2008 2:53:56 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re:enlarging a 1 1/4 inch hole

                                      Um - my time is worth more to me than the cost of a replacement length of Dowelling.
                                      So, if it was me, as a professional woodworker, I'd either replace the staff dowelling, or make a new banner-base central workpiece.
                                      However, as a practical problem to solve - and given the equipment I have at my disposal , available in my workshop, - I think I'd set the workpiece up under my floor-standing- pillar-drill, - very carefully "centred" and well clamped in place, and - with the drill running at the kind of slow speed I use for drilling metal, - enlarge first section of the bore with a Forstner bit to the max depth of the bit-shank; - then change to a newly-sharpened flat-bit of the same size, but a long-shank, and finish the boring from the same end with that.
                                      Enlarging the first section of the bore with a Forstner bit will make lining-up the flat-bit for the second "pass" much easier.
                                      I certainly wouldn't try enlarging the bore with a hand-held power-tool.
                                      And the problem I see with trying to use a plunge-router  and a cutter with a bottom bearing is the depth available for the "plunge", plus the second-"set- up" to come at the undersized bore from the other end. Our questioner needed to go to a 5- or 6- inch total depth, IIRC.

                                      In service to the medieval Dream,
                                      Matthew Baker
                                      in the SCA
                                      [aka Julian Wilson, in 2008]


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