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Re: [MedievalSawdust] it's an sign from God!

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  • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
    maybe I m waiting until the end so I do not show my interest and drive up the price.... Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 3, 2008
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      maybe I'm waiting until the end so I do not show my
      interest and drive up the price....
       
      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

      Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '


      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Rebekah d'Avignon <rebekahdavignon@...>
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, October 3, 2008 7:54:19 AM
      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] it's an sign from God!

      Then why haven't you bid on it?

      Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@yahoo. com> wrote:

      The auction ends on October 10th!

      It's a sign from god! He wants me to have it!

      http://cgi.ebay. co.uk/ws/ eBayISAPI. dll?ViewItem&item=180295129086

       
      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

      Aude Aliquid Dignum
      ' Dare Something Worthy '
      .




      RdA
      Tools alone do not a craftsman make.


    • James Winkler
      Go ahead Conal... siege the moment ... besides... think of the leverage it would give you with the property tax people... neighborhood disputes over the
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 3, 2008
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        Go ahead Conal... "siege the moment"...  besides... think of the leverage it would give you with the property tax people...  neighborhood disputes over the moat...    ;-)
         
        Chas.
      • AlbionWood
        http://browse.sothebys.com/?&cat=1&event_id=28722&g=1&i=1&sale_id=L08312 My wife wants Lot 3, but I d be happy owning Lot 5. Cheers, Tim
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 16, 2008
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          http://browse.sothebys.com/?&cat=1&event_id=28722&g=1&i=1&sale_id=L08312

          My wife wants Lot 3, but I'd be happy owning Lot 5.

          Cheers,
          Tim
        • James Winkler
          as a side note. If you *do* elect to bid on one of these lots and if you happen to *win* the lot. there is also the issue of shipping your prize home. I
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 16, 2008
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            … as a side note. 

             

            If you *do* elect to bid on one of these lots and if you happen to *win* the lot…  there is also the issue of shipping your prize home.    I bought a 16th c. boarded chest from Phillips of London once…  the price wasn’t all that bad (far below the quality of stuff in this auction) as it was a simple piece with some marginal “restorations”…    somehow, in the process of enthusiasm I’d forgotten I don’t live in London… and that *shipping thing*…   cost me almost $450 to get it shipped…  ;-)   But, it really is kinda’ cool  to have it sitting in my living room…

             

            Chas.

             

            =====================

            http://browse.sothebys.com/?&cat=1&event_id=28722&g=1&i=1&sale_id=L08312

            My wife wants Lot 3, but I'd be happy owning Lot 5.

            Cheers,
            Tim

             

          • Jim Looper
            Sign me up for #15. L~ ... From: AlbionWood To: Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:25 AM
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 16, 2008
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              Sign me up for #15.

              L~

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "AlbionWood" <albionwood@...>
              To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:25 AM
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!


              > http://browse.sothebys.com/?&cat=1&event_id=28722&g=1&i=1&sale_id=L08312
              >
              > My wife wants Lot 3, but I'd be happy owning Lot 5.
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Tim
            • Bill McNutt
              I had the same experience. I didn t take quite the bath you did, but I ordered a brace-and-bit from over the pond. Good thing it was a great deal. By the
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 16, 2008
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                I had the same experience.  I didn't take quite the bath you did, but I ordered a brace-and-bit from over the pond.  Good thing it was a "great deal." By the time I was done paying for the shipping thing, it turned into a "fair price, if a little high."
                 
                Will


                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Winkler
                Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:42 AM
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!

                … as a side note. 

                If you *do* elect to bid on one of these lots and if you happen to *win* the lot…  there is also the issue of shipping your prize home.    I bought a 16th c. boarded chest from Phillips of London once…  the price wasn’t all that bad (far below the quality of stuff in this auction) as it was a simple piece with some marginal “restorations”…    somehow, in the process of enthusiasm I’d forgotten I don’t live in London… and that *shipping thing*…   cost me almost $450 to get it shipped…  ;-)   But, it really is kinda’ cool  to have it sitting in my living room…

                Chas.

                ============ =========

                http://browse. sothebys. com/?&cat=1&event_id=28722&g=1&i=1&sale_id=L08312

                My wife wants Lot 3, but I'd be happy owning Lot 5.

                Cheers,
                Tim

              • Royce
                I m liking #12 I know my wife and she would just say yes to the whole dang thing.. Bercilak From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 16, 2008
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                  I’m liking #12

                   

                  I know my wife and she would just say yes to the whole dang thing..

                   

                  Bercilak

                   

                  From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AlbionWood
                  Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:26 AM
                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!

                   

                  http://browse.sothebys.com/?&cat=1&event_id=28722&g=1&i=1&sale_id=L08312

                  My wife wants Lot 3, but I'd be happy owning Lot 5.

                  Cheers,
                  Tim

                • Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart
                  335 lots...... I m thinking about getting the catalog.... Baron Conal O hAirt / Jim Hart Aude Aliquid Dignum Dare Something Worthy ... From: Royce
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 16, 2008
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                    335 lots...... 

                    I'm thinking about getting the catalog....


                     
                    Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                    Aude Aliquid Dignum
                    ' Dare Something Worthy '


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Royce <rcetlin@...>
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:31:39 PM
                    Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!

                    I’m liking #12

                     

                    I know my wife and she would just say yes to the whole dang thing..

                     

                    Bercilak

                     

                    From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of AlbionWood
                    Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:26 AM
                    To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                    Subject: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!

                     

                    http://browse. sothebys. com/?&cat=1&event_id=28722&g=1&i=1&sale_id=L08312

                    My wife wants Lot 3, but I'd be happy owning Lot 5.

                    Cheers,
                    Tim


                  • christopher chastain
                    ... To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.comFrom: baronconal@yahoo.comDate: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:41:25 -0700Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 16, 2008
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                      :::Hides the site from his wife:::::Shh this site could put me in the poor house.

                       
                       
                       
                       
                      Yours in Humble Service,
                      Dmitrii Zarekoi Ivanov
                      "Do not scorn the weak cub. It might become the brutal tiger!" Mongol Proverb
                      "Only a hand that can grasp a sword may hold a sceptre!" Tatar Proverb


                       











                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      From: baronconal@...
                      Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:41:25 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!

                      335 lots...... 

                      I'm thinking about getting the catalog....


                       
                      Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                      Aude Aliquid Dignum
                      ' Dare Something Worthy '


                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Royce <rcetlin@cox. net>
                      To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:31:39 PM
                      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!


                      I’m liking #12

                       

                      I know my wife and she would just say yes to the whole dang thing..

                       

                      Bercilak

                       

                      From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of AlbionWood
                      Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:26 AM
                      To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!

                       

                      http://browse. sothebys. com/?&cat=1&event_id=28722&g=1&i=1&sale_id=L08312

                      My wife wants Lot 3, but I'd be happy owning Lot 5.

                      Cheers,
                      Tim





                      Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how. Learn Now
                    • the_spanishpeacock@comcast.net
                      I m ordering the catalog tonight. I have several from auctions over the years Miguel ... From: Conal O hAirt Jim Hart 335 lots......
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 17, 2008
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                        I'm ordering the catalog tonight.  I have several from auctions over the years
                         
                        Miguel
                        -------------- Original message --------------
                        From: Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...>

                        335 lots...... 

                        I'm thinking about getting the catalog....


                         
                        Baron Conal O'hAirt / Jim Hart

                        Aude Aliquid Dignum
                        ' Dare Something Worthy '


                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: Royce <rcetlin@cox. net>
                        To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 7:31:39 PM
                        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!

                        I�m liking #12

                         

                        I know my wife and she would just say yes to the whole dang thing..

                         

                        Bercilak

                         

                        From: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:medievalsaw dust@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of AlbionWood
                        Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 8:26 AM
                        To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!

                         

                        http://browse. sothebys. com/?&cat=1&event_id=28722&g=1&i=1&sale_id=L08312

                        My wife wants Lot 3, but I'd be happy owning Lot 5.

                        Cheers,
                        Tim


                      • Raymond J Hindle
                        For me. the catalogue itself is a real deal at $70! Contains all the photos, the dimensions and the provenance or primary source references! Raim
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 17, 2008
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                          For me. the catalogue itself is a "real deal" at $70! Contains all the photos, the dimensions and the provenance or primary source references!
                          Raim
                        • Jim Looper
                          Did you see the dove-tail on #31? Lucien ... From: AlbionWood To: Sent: Thursday, October 16,
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 18, 2008
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                            Did you see the dove-tail on #31?

                            Lucien

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "AlbionWood" <albionwood@...>
                            To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:25 AM
                            Subject: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!


                            > http://browse.sothebys.com/?&cat=1&event_id=28722&g=1&i=1&sale_id=L08312
                            >
                            > My wife wants Lot 3, but I'd be happy owning Lot 5.
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            > Tim
                          • julian wilson
                            SNIPPED FOR BREVITY ... Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon! Date: Saturday, 18 October, 2008, 12:56 Did you see the dove-tail on #31?
                            Message 13 of 23 , Oct 18, 2008
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                              SNIPPED FOR BREVITY
                              --- On Sat, 18/10/08, Jim Looper <jimlooper@...> wrote:

                              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!

                              Date: Saturday, 18 October, 2008, 12:56
                              Did you see the dove-tail on #31?
                              Lucien

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "AlbionWood" <albionwood@wildblue .net>
                              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!
                              http://browse. sothebys. com/?&cat= 1&event_id= 28722&g=1& i=1&sale_ id=L08312
                              > My wife wants Lot 3, but I'd be happy owning Lot 5.

                              COMMENT
                              Hmm, dovetails.
                              Does the List realise that the earliest, positively-dated, surviving English example of the use of dovetailing in a piece of furniture is the Barber Surgeon's Chest recovered from inside the wreck of the "Mary Rose"?
                              According to the comment in Volume III of the Mary Rose Trust Archeological Reports "Before The Mast" - no earlier example with a certain English historic provenance is known.

                              The Trust's Expert who authored that portion of the Text, concerning this chest, suggests that - as dovetailing is not known in surviving English woodwork [of the early Tudor period, or earlier] the Barber Surgeon's Chest may have been either pruchesed by him on the Continent, or imported "for sale"  into England from there, by a Merchant.

                              As a professional woodworker, I find the note on this bit of Craft minutiæ very intersting. I'd always had the notion that the technique of dovetailing had a much older history in England.

                              Julian Wilson
                              [aka as Lord Matthew Baker in the SCA]











                            • AlbionWood
                              OH yeah... that nice big sliding dovetail joining the tabletop to the trestle. Lovely. I ve seen that on a number of early 16th century German tables as well.
                              Message 14 of 23 , Oct 18, 2008
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                                OH yeah... that nice big sliding dovetail joining the tabletop to the trestle.  Lovely.  I've seen that on a number of early 16th century German tables as well.  It is not present on the 15th c. table in Notre-Dame de la Poterie in Bruges, even though that table does have a sliding dovetail end-joining two boards.  Can't remember if it's on the Penshurst table; have to go look that up.

                                #31 is a beauty.  I hope it goes somewhere I can see it up close. 

                                Tim


                                Jim Looper wrote:
                                Did you see the dove-tail on #31?
                                
                                Lucien
                                
                                ----- Original Message ----- 
                                From: "AlbionWood" <albionwood@...>
                                To: <medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:25 AM
                                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] The Real Deal, on sale soon!
                                
                                
                                  
                                http://browse.sothebys.com/?&cat=1&event_id=28722&g=1&i=1&sale_id=L08312
                                
                                My wife wants Lot 3, but I'd be happy owning Lot 5.
                                
                                Cheers,
                                Tim
                                    
                                
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                              • AlbionWood
                                Julian - I ve never seen any indication that box-corner dovetailing in particular was practiced in England any earlier than the c16th.  In fact that joint was
                                Message 15 of 23 , Oct 18, 2008
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                                  Julian - I've never seen any indication that box-corner dovetailing in particular was practiced in England any earlier than the c16th.  In fact that joint was not widely used on the Continent before the late 15th (although there are very nice mitred corner dovetails on Flemish altarpieces of the mid-15th), so it would be rather surprising to find it in England (something of a cultural and technological backwater at the time) before the c16th.

                                  Cheers,
                                  Tim


                                  julian wilson wrote:

                                  COMMENT
                                  Hmm, dovetails.
                                  Does the List realise that the earliest, positively-dated, surviving English example of the use of dovetailing in a piece of furniture is the Barber Surgeon's Chest recovered from inside the wreck of the "Mary Rose"?
                                  According to the comment in Volume III of the Mary Rose Trust Archeological Reports "Before The Mast" - no earlier example with a certain English historic provenance is known.

                                  The Trust's Expert who authored that portion of the Text, concerning this chest, suggests that - as dovetailing is not known in surviving English woodwork [of the early Tudor period, or earlier] the Barber Surgeon's Chest may have been either pruchesed by him on the Continent, or imported "for sale"  into England from there, by a Merchant.

                                  As a professional woodworker, I find the note on this bit of Craft minutiæ very intersting. I'd always had the notion that the technique of dovetailing had a much older history in England.

                                  Julian Wilson
                                  [aka as Lord Matthew Baker in the SCA]











                                • julian wilson
                                  Exactly, Tim. My impression of the older history of the techniq ... From: AlbionWood Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: dovetailing -
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Oct 18, 2008
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                                    Exactly, Tim.
                                    My impression of the older history of the techniq

                                    --- On Sat, 18/10/08, AlbionWood <albionwood@...> wrote:
                                    From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: dovetailing - was The Real Deal, on sale soon!
                                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Saturday, 18 October, 2008, 4:39 PM

                                    Julian - I've never seen any indication that box-corner dovetailing in particular was practiced in England any earlier than the c16th.  In fact that joint was not widely used on the Continent before the late 15th (although there are very nice mitred corner dovetails on Flemish altarpieces of the mid-15th), so it would be rather surprising to find it in England (something of a cultural and technological backwater at the time) before the c16th.

                                    Cheers,
                                    Tim


                                    julian wilson wrote:


                                    COMMENT
                                    Hmm, dovetails.
                                    Does the List realise that the earliest, positively-dated, surviving English example of the use of dovetailing in a piece of furniture is the Barber Surgeon's Chest recovered from inside the wreck of the "Mary Rose"?
                                    According to the comment in Volume III of the Mary Rose Trust Archeological Reports "Before The Mast" - no earlier example with a certain English historic provenance is known.

                                    The Trust's Expert who authored that portion of the Text, concerning this chest, suggests that - as dovetailing is not known in surviving English woodwork [of the early Tudor period, or earlier] the Barber Surgeon's Chest may have been either pruchesed by him on the Continent, or imported "for sale"  into England from there, by a Merchant.

                                    As a professional woodworker, I find the note on this bit of Craft minutiæ very intersting. I'd always had the notion that the technique of dovetailing had a much older history in England.

                                    Julian Wilson
                                    [aka as Lord Matthew Baker in the SCA]











                                  • julian wilson
                                    Thank you for the added clrification Tim. The impression I d had [ unsupported by any research, I admit] that dovetailing as a jointing technique for
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Oct 18, 2008
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                                      Thank you for the added clrification Tim.
                                      The impression I'd had [ unsupported by any research, I admit] that dovetailing as a jointing technique for furniture, in England, had an older history than  the middle of the 16th Century was mistaken, I freely admit.
                                       I'd just made an erroneous assumption that - with so many chests and coffers being part of every Burghers/merchants/Noble households furnishing in the medieval period, say post Conquest - the box-corner dovetail had arrived in England earlier. After all, it appears in Medn' Basin furniture of a considerably earlier date than 1545; - and we know from surviving Customs Rolls from the Cinque Ports that Italian Trade Fleets convoyed by Venetian galleys were making port on the S. Coast of England in the early 1300's.
                                      But I guess it was a technique that wasn't of sufficiently high-a-value for any Meditteranean Merchant to sell the secret mysterie to any English Master Woodworker.

                                      Nice to have those historic references to early surviving dovetails elsewhere, though.

                                       Julian

                                      --- On Sat, 18/10/08, AlbionWood <albionwood@...> wrote:
                                      From: AlbionWood <albionwood@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: dovetailing - was The Real Deal, on sale soon!
                                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Saturday, 18 October, 2008, 4:39 PM

                                      Julian - I've never seen any indication that box-corner dovetailing in particular was practiced in England any earlier than the c16th.  In fact that joint was not widely used on the Continent before the late 15th (although there are very nice mitred corner dovetails on Flemish altarpieces of the mid-15th), so it would be rather surprising to find it in England (something of a cultural and technological backwater at the time) before the c16th.

                                      Cheers,
                                      Tim


                                      julian wilson wrote:


                                      COMMENT
                                      Hmm, dovetails.
                                      Does the List realise that the earliest, positively-dated, surviving English example of the use of dovetailing in a piece of furniture is the Barber Surgeon's Chest recovered from inside the wreck of the "Mary Rose"?
                                      According to the comment in Volume III of the Mary Rose Trust Archeological Reports "Before The Mast" - no earlier example with a certain English historic provenance is known.

                                      The Trust's Expert who authored that portion of the Text, concerning this chest, suggests that - as dovetailing is not known in surviving English woodwork [of the early Tudor period, or earlier] the Barber Surgeon's Chest may have been either pruchesed by him on the Continent, or imported "for sale"  into England from there, by a Merchant.

                                      As a professional woodworker, I find the note on this bit of Craft minutiæ very intersting. I'd always had the notion that the technique of dovetailing had a much older history in England.

                                      Julian Wilson
                                      [aka as Lord Matthew Baker in the SCA]











                                    • AlbionWood
                                      I m not very familiar with medieval furniture from south of the Alps.   I haven t found much evidence for box-corner dovetail chests in Northern Europe
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Oct 18, 2008
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                                        I'm not very familiar with medieval furniture from south of the Alps.   I haven't found much evidence for box-corner dovetail chests in Northern Europe before the 1480s, in spite of those Flemish altarpieces.  I keep reading claims that Italians, or somebody along the Mediterranean, were making them earlier than that, but I have yet to see a photo or drawing of an example.  Anybody have one to share?

                                        Other kinds of dovetail joints were certainly in use earlier; for example, in timber-framing of buildings.  It's the specific box-corner joint (which is, I think, a completely different animal than a sliding or lap dovetail) that seems to have sprung up around 1480.

                                        Cheers,
                                        Tim


                                        julian wilson wrote:
                                        it appears in Medn' Basin furniture of a considerably earlier date than 1545
                                        __
                                      • AlbionWood
                                        Speaking of joinery, I can t quite make out how the Italian cassone (#13) is joined. There are mitres at each corner, but no visible pegs or dovetails. Guess
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Oct 18, 2008
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                                          Speaking of joinery, I can't quite make out how the Italian cassone
                                          (#13) is joined. There are mitres at each corner, but no visible pegs
                                          or dovetails. Guess I'll try registering and see if the condition
                                          report has any info.

                                          Cheers,
                                          Tim
                                        • Rhys Terafan Greydragon
                                          Greetings unto Julian and Colin from Terafan, I have a photo of a (supposedly) 14th century chest from the Alsace region of Switzerland/France that shows
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Oct 18, 2008
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                                            Greetings unto Julian and Colin from Terafan,
                                             
                                                I have a photo of a (supposedly) 14th century chest from the Alsace region of Switzerland/France that shows something like dovetailing.   The last chest on the page http://www.greydragon.org/furniture/oeuvre.html
                                             
                                            Maybe those aren't really doevtails, but I am curious now what they are...
                                             

                                            cheers,
                                               Terafan
                                             
                                            Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon     terafan@...
                                            Brewer, Tent and Furniture maker, and other things I can't remember... 

                                             

                                            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AlbionWood
                                            Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 12:37 PM
                                            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: dovetailing - was The Real Deal, on sale soon!

                                            I'm not very familiar with medieval furniture from south of the Alps.   I haven't found much evidence for box-corner dovetail chests in Northern Europe before the 1480s, in spite of those Flemish altarpieces.  I keep reading claims that Italians, or somebody along the Mediterranean, were making them earlier than that, but I have yet to see a photo or drawing of an example.  Anybody have one to share?

                                            Other kinds of dovetail joints were certainly in use earlier; for example, in timber-framing of buildings.  It's the specific box-corner joint (which is, I think, a completely different animal than a sliding or lap dovetail) that seems to have sprung up around 1480.

                                            Cheers,
                                            Tim


                                            julian wilson wrote:

                                            it appears in Medn' Basin furniture of a considerably earlier date than 1545
                                            __

                                          • AlbionWood
                                            Sure looks like dovetail joinery to me! I ve seen (and photographed) a very similar chest - thick boards, dovetail corner joinery, plain iron strapping - in
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Oct 19, 2008
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                                              Sure looks like dovetail joinery to me!  I've seen (and photographed) a very similar chest - thick boards, dovetail corner joinery, plain iron strapping - in Avignon, where it was assigned to the 15th c.  I wonder on what basis these coffers are dated?  I'm particularly interested in the XIVc attribution for the Alsace coffer, as that would be considerably earlier than any other dovetailed chest I've seen.

                                              Cheers,
                                              Colin


                                              Rhys Terafan Greydragon wrote:
                                              Greetings unto Julian and Colin from Terafan,
                                               
                                                  I have a photo of a (supposedly) 14th century chest from the Alsace region of Switzerland/France that shows something like dovetailing.   The last chest on the page http://www.greydragon.org/furniture/oeuvre.html
                                               
                                              Maybe those aren't really doevtails, but I am curious now what they are...
                                               

                                              cheers,
                                                 Terafan
                                               
                                              Master Rhys Terafan Greydragon     terafan@...
                                              Brewer, Tent and Furniture maker, and other things I can't remember... 

                                               

                                              From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AlbionWood
                                              Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2008 12:37 PM
                                              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: dovetailing - was The Real Deal, on sale soon!

                                              I'm not very familiar with medieval furniture from south of the Alps.   I haven't found much evidence for box-corner dovetail chests in Northern Europe before the 1480s, in spite of those Flemish altarpieces.  I keep reading claims that Italians, or somebody along the Mediterranean, were making them earlier than that, but I have yet to see a photo or drawing of an example.  Anybody have one to share?

                                              Other kinds of dovetail joints were certainly in use earlier; for example, in timber-framing of buildings.  It's the specific box-corner joint (which is, I think, a completely different animal than a sliding or lap dovetail) that seems to have sprung up around 1480.

                                              Cheers,
                                              Tim


                                              julian wilson wrote:

                                              it appears in Medn' Basin furniture of a considerably earlier date than 1545
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