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Re: A Wood finish

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  • i_griffen
    Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for the right material for the toy. What I want to make is formed wire device that has several
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 7 7:59 PM
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      Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
      the right material for the toy.

      What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
      that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
      that rides on the wires.

      As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
      various shapes.

      what do you all think?


      Iain Griffen


      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
      > safer if NOT finished.
      >
      > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
      > > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
      make a
      > > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
      > >
      > > thanks
      > >
      > > Iain Griffen
      > >
      > >
      >
    • Rodrigo Belmonte
      If you are making what I think you are making, I have seen them several times in doctors offices and the like. The kids love them, and spend hours playing with
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 7 8:05 PM
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        If you are making what I think you are making, I have seen them several times in doctors offices and the like. The kids love them, and spend hours playing with them! My only cautions would be to consider the metal used very carefully, as well as the size of the wooden baubles.. perhaps you could encorporate a learning tool with it, make it fun, and educational!

         

        In service to the Dream,

         

        Rodrigo Belmonte

        Oakheart Company of Archers

        Shire of Oakheart

        Kingdom of Calontir



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: i_griffen <i_griffen@...>
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 7:59:52 PM
        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: A Wood finish

        Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
        the right material for the toy.

        What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
        that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
        that rides on the wires.

        As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
        various shapes.

        what do you all think?

        Iain Griffen

        --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@.. .>
        wrote:

        >
        > what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
        > safer if NOT finished.
        >
        > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@. ..> wrote:
        > > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
        make a
        > > toy for my
        grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
        > >
        > > thanks
        > >
        > > Iain Griffen
        > >
        > >
        >


      • leaking pen
        enameled wire, paint the beads with food color, let dry, then soak for an hour in water, let dry and give them a final sand. that should prevent any bleeding
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 7 8:18 PM
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          enameled wire, paint the beads with food color, let dry, then soak for
          an hour in water, let dry and give them a final sand. that should
          prevent any bleeding of the food color. make sure all the beads are
          larger than the chokepoint (you can find tools for that at the store
          in the baby aisle) and unfinished will be safer in terms of germs.
          Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
          safer than plastic. as for wood type, id go with white pine, soft on
          the teeth, take color well, very little chance of allergy.

          On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 7:59 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
          > Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
          > the right material for the toy.
          >
          > What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
          > that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
          > that rides on the wires.
          >
          > As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
          > various shapes.
          >
          > what do you all think?
          >
          > Iain Griffen
          >
          > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@...>
          > wrote:
          >
          >>
          >> what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
          >> safer if NOT finished.
          >>
          >> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
          >> > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
          > make a
          >> > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
          >> >
          >> > thanks
          >> >
          >> > Iain Griffen
          >> >
          >> >
          >>
          >
          >
        • donat0
          ... I don t mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is true? Children are
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 8 6:33 AM
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            > Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
            > safer than plastic.

            I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous
            misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is
            true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build
            strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen
            equipment is not good.

            One of the most common transfer points of Salmonella is through
            improperly cleaned wooden cutting boards- the bacteria can live for
            weeks if the board is saturated. Admittedly, most dangerous
            bacteria's are aneorobic (must have no oxygen to live), and wood by
            nature creates an aerobic environment, I think to assume its safe
            because its wood beacons us back to "Assume means....."

            "Pieces of raw and painted wood were observed in the firm's class 100
            and class 1,000 rooms. Wood is porous, difficult to disinfect, can
            allow for the growth of bacteria and mold and contamination of the
            environment."

            http://tinyurl.com/5g3fvw

            I am sorry, I don't mean to contradict anybody, but we must always
            maintain a higher sanitation priority when preparing food for other
            people.

            Donato Del Giardinier, Proprietor Rifugio Del Bacchus.
          • paul
            The sources for Pro wood cutting boards seem to be A note from NH: One of our readers reminded me of the interesting research of Dean Cliver from the
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 8 7:50 AM
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              The sources for Pro wood cutting boards seem to be

              A note from NH: One of our readers reminded me of the interesting
              research of Dean Cliver from the University of California (Davis), a
              published expert in food safety and foodborne disease. He published a
              series of articles on the bacterial dangers inherent in cutting boards
              and methods of disinfecting them. He was surprised to find that wood,
              reputed to be more bacteria prone and less easily cleaned than plastic
              cutting boards, actually proved to be more hygienic! Here is a summary
              of his findings...

              http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infxtra/infcuttingboard.html

              and Patrick J. Bird, Ph.D. Keeping Fit Column 599 1998

              http://www.chefknivestogo.com/woodvsplascu.html

              I found Several state agriculture extension websites that favor plastic
              over wood but none of the ones I checked had any information on studies
              behind there conclusions. Such as

              http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/health/foodsafety/az1076.html

              When I checked the USDA website the only thing I found on the topic did
              not seem to favor one surface over the other
              http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Cutting_Boards_and_Food_Safety/index.asp

              One site I found that seemed to cover both sides of the argument
              evenhanded and did include references was

              http://www.reluctantgourmet.com/cutting_board.htm

              Paul


              donat0 wrote:
              >
              >
              > > Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
              > > safer than plastic.
              >
              > I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous
              > misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is
              > true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build
              > strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen
              > equipment is not good.
              >
            • Trevor Payne
              Try using a food grade varnish.  That way when baby chews on it there is not toxic chemicals. Aiden Those who beat their swords into plowshares plow for
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 8 9:08 AM
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                Try using a food grade varnish.  That way when baby chews on it there is not toxic chemicals.

                Aiden

                "Those who beat their swords into plowshares plow for those who didn't"
                --Benjamin Franklin--

                --- On Thu, 8/7/08, Rodrigo Belmonte <rodrigo_belmonte@...> wrote:
                From: Rodrigo Belmonte <rodrigo_belmonte@...>
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: A Wood finish
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 10:05 PM

                If you are making what I think you are making, I have seen them several times in doctors offices and the like. The kids love them, and spend hours playing with them! My only cautions would be to consider the metal used very carefully, as well as the size of the wooden baubles.. perhaps you could encorporate a learning tool with it, make it fun, and educational!

                 

                In service to the Dream,

                 

                Rodrigo Belmonte

                Oakheart Company of Archers

                Shire of Oakheart

                Kingdom of Calontir



                ----- Original Message ----
                From: i_griffen <i_griffen@yahoo. com>
                To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 7:59:52 PM
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: A Wood finish

                Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
                the right material for the toy.

                What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
                that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
                that rides on the wires.

                As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
                various shapes.

                what do you all think?

                Iain Griffen

                --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@.. .>
                wrote:
                >
                > what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
                > safer if NOT finished.
                >
                > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@. ..> wrote:
                > > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
                make a
                > > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
                > >
                > > thanks
                > >
                > > Iain Griffen
                > >
                > >
                >



              • donat0
                Thank you, Paul for your quick response. This is becoming a good conversation. To preface my response, I would like to say I prefer to use a wooden board.
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 8 9:18 AM
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                  Thank you, Paul for your quick response. This is becoming a good
                  conversation. To preface my response, I would like to say I prefer
                  to use a wooden board. Its easier on the cutting blades, and I clean
                  up soon after cutting, especially meats.

                  Your first source, was very interesting...

                  http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infxtra/infcuttingboard.html

                  But I would like to point out...

                  "Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces
                  are found alive inside the wood for some time after application, they
                  evidently do not multiply, and they gradually die. They can be
                  detected only by splitting or gouging the wood or by forcing water
                  completely through from one surface to the other. If a sharp knife is
                  used to cut into the work surfaces after used plastic or wood has
                  been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually, more bacteria
                  are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a used wood
                  surface." (Quote from article)

                  Really, the article stated that wood is OK, and actaully better than
                  plastic if both are scarred from cutting. This doesn't mean wood is
                  antibacterial, or even safe. Just better than plastic if both are
                  scarred. I think what is not said in the article about lingering
                  contamination beacons back to what I said before about anaerobic
                  conditions. If you saturate your wood; replace air in the pores with
                  water, the bacteria can stay alive a lot longer, where plastic is
                  hydrophillic (repels water), and you wouldn't have that problem.

                  This source also doesn't comment about wood being antibacterial..

                  http://www.chefknivestogo.com/woodvsplascu.html

                  But it DOES comment about sanitation practices,

                  "A mild bleach solution will decontaminate plastic and other
                  surfaces. But even at full strength, bleach does not sanitize wood
                  cutting boards. The disinfectant quality of bleach is neutralized by
                  the organic composition of wood. A good procedure for disinfecting
                  both wood and plastic cutting boards, as well as other surfaces and
                  utensils, is to spray them first with a mist of vinegar, then with a
                  mist of hydrogen peroxide." (quote from article)

                  Note, Bleach is totally ineffective against contamination on wood, I
                  didn't know that and will adjust my own cleaning practices. Thanks.

                  You need to read your source on this one again.

                  http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/health/foodsafety/az1076.html

                  "However, more recent studies by the Food and Drug Administration
                  found that microorganisms became trapped in wood surfaces and were
                  difficult to dislodge by rinsing. Once trapped, bacteria survive in a
                  dormant stage for long periods of time. The next time the cutting
                  board is used, these bacteria could contaminate other foods,
                  potentially causing food-borne illness. On the other hand, the study
                  found that microorganisms were easily washed off plastic surfaces."
                  (Quote from FDA article)

                  The last source really didn't say anything one way or the other, so I
                  won't comment on it.

                  Thanks again Paul, for the response. Its always a good thing to get
                  views from different perspectives to explore the "bigger picture" of
                  life.

                  Donato, Proprietor of Rifugio Del Bacchus.
                • leaking pen
                  http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm Heres a study on salmonella that shows the bacteria was pulled into the wood,
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 8 9:29 AM
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                    http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm

                    Heres a study on salmonella that shows the bacteria was pulled into
                    the wood, dehydrated and killed, did not multiply, and was not
                    available to contaminate on the surface.

                    On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 6:33 AM, donat0 <donat0@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
                    >> safer than plastic.
                    >
                    > I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous
                    > misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is
                    > true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build
                    > strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen
                    > equipment is not good.
                    >
                    > One of the most common transfer points of Salmonella is through
                    > improperly cleaned wooden cutting boards- the bacteria can live for
                    > weeks if the board is saturated. Admittedly, most dangerous
                    > bacteria's are aneorobic (must have no oxygen to live), and wood by
                    > nature creates an aerobic environment, I think to assume its safe
                    > because its wood beacons us back to "Assume means....."
                    >
                    > "Pieces of raw and painted wood were observed in the firm's class 100
                    > and class 1,000 rooms. Wood is porous, difficult to disinfect, can
                    > allow for the growth of bacteria and mold and contamination of the
                    > environment."
                    >
                    > http://tinyurl.com/5g3fvw
                    >
                    > I am sorry, I don't mean to contradict anybody, but we must always
                    > maintain a higher sanitation priority when preparing food for other
                    > people.
                    >
                    > Donato Del Giardinier, Proprietor Rifugio Del Bacchus.
                    >
                    >
                  • AlbionWood
                    The bottom line on cutting boards is, both wood and plastic are safe if you keep them clean and keep them dry - and neither are safe if you do not. The
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 8 10:12 AM
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                      The bottom line on cutting boards is, both wood and plastic are safe if
                      you keep them clean and keep them dry - and neither are safe if you do
                      not. The differences between the two materials are interesting but
                      negligible in terms of personal use. (Commercial food preparation use
                      patterns are very different, the materials have less chance to dry out
                      as they are in use more continuously, so bacteria populations can build
                      up faster.)

                      Wash well, wipe with vinegar, keep dry between uses, and you'll be safe
                      with either material.

                      Now back to the original question - as others noted, no finish at all is
                      probably best for this application, but in practice all modern finishes
                      are safe when fully cured. Bob Flexner has been trying for years to
                      combat the persistent belief that wood finishes are toxic. They are
                      not. But if you don't believe him, use shellac - it is in fact
                      food-safe, used to coat pills, among other things.

                      Cheers,
                      Tim
                    • Rebekah d'Avignon
                      donat0 wrote: I don t mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous misinformation. Could you please show us a source
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 8 10:36 AM
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                        donat0 <donat0@...> wrote:
                        I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen equipment is not good.
                        Um......wrong.
                        One of the most common transfer points of Salmonella is through improperly cleaned wooden cutting boards- the bacteria can live for weeks if the board is saturated.
                        Sorry.....read the item below.

                        "Pieces of raw and painted wood were observed in the firm's class 100 and class 1,000 rooms. Wood is porous, difficult to disinfect, can allow for the growth of bacteria and mold and contamination of the environment. "

                        Donato Del Giardinier, Proprietor Rifugio Del Bacchus.
                        .

                         
                         


                        RdA
                        Tools alone do not a craftsman make.

                      • bayard_turner
                        Bob Flexner, author of Understanding Wood Finishing , wrote an article for the Spring 2008 American Woodturner. He says that all the Salad Bowl Finishes ,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 8 9:25 PM
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                          Bob Flexner, author of "Understanding Wood Finishing", wrote an
                          article for the Spring 2008 American Woodturner. He says that all the
                          "Salad Bowl Finishes", etc., are simply alkyd varnishes thinned with
                          mineral spirits - "wiping varnishes." They contain the same driers as
                          any other varnish and are no more or less safe. All the driers used
                          in varnish and drying oils like BLO are approved by the FDA (Bob says
                          to google "21CFR175.300" and click on the top link). His contention
                          is that all finishes - varnish, drying oils, lacquer, etc. are
                          "food-safe" after they have fully cured.

                          Given that information, what finish would handle rough use over time
                          best? A surface finish, like poly, lays on top of the wood, and
                          provides good protection from water, drool, etc. An oil like BLO
                          soaks in, but offers little protection at the surface. I'd go with
                          what works best for you on other projects.

                          Bayard

                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "lambdakennels1@..."
                          <lambdakennels1@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > You can get a can of "toy maker finish" from a wood store such as
                          Rockler or Woordcraft. I have a can. It says it is child safe after
                          three or four coats when cured 48 hours after the last coat. I have
                          not used it -- stopped making things that needed that sort of thing,
                          so can't tell you how it does.
                          >
                          >
                          > Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
                          > http://lambdafarm.mysite.com/
                          > Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
                          > K5AMK
                          >
                          >
                          > -- "i_griffen" <i_griffen@...> wrote:
                          > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to make a
                          > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
                          >
                          >
                          > thanks
                          >
                          > Iain Griffen
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
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