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Re: [MedievalSawdust] A Wood finish

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  • lambdakennels1@juno.com
    You can get a can of toy maker finish from a wood store such as Rockler or Woordcraft. I have a can. It says it is child safe after three or four coats
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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      You can get a can of "toy maker finish" from a wood store such as Rockler or Woordcraft.  I have a can.  It says it is child safe after three or four coats when cured 48 hours after the last coat.  I have not used it -- stopped making things that needed that sort of thing, so can't tell you how it does.


      Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
      http://lambdafarm.mysite.com/
      Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
      K5AMK


      -- "i_griffen" <i_griffen@...> wrote:
      Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe?  I want to make a
      toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.


      thanks

      Iain Griffen


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    • leaking pen
      what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are safer if NOT finished.
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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        what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
        safer if NOT finished.

        On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
        > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to make a
        > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
        >
        > thanks
        >
        > Iain Griffen
        >
        >
      • Alex Haugland
        It depends on what kind of finish you want... Mineral oil is safe for most people, as is natural beeswax. Carnuba wax is commonly used on candies, though
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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          It depends on what kind of finish you want...  Mineral oil is safe for most people, as is natural beeswax.  Carnuba wax is commonly used on candies, though you'd have to make sure it's pure and doesn't have any solvents, etc. that are not food-safe.  The waxes and mineral oil won't protect the surface from dirt and moisture as well as a urethane, however...

          --Alysaundre Weldon d'Ath
          Barony of Adiantum, An Tir

          i_griffen wrote:

          Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to make a
          toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.

          thanks

          Iain Griffen


        • i_griffen
          Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for the right material for the toy. What I want to make is formed wire device that has several
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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            Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
            the right material for the toy.

            What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
            that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
            that rides on the wires.

            As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
            various shapes.

            what do you all think?


            Iain Griffen


            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
            > safer if NOT finished.
            >
            > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
            > > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
            make a
            > > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
            > >
            > > thanks
            > >
            > > Iain Griffen
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Rodrigo Belmonte
            If you are making what I think you are making, I have seen them several times in doctors offices and the like. The kids love them, and spend hours playing with
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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              If you are making what I think you are making, I have seen them several times in doctors offices and the like. The kids love them, and spend hours playing with them! My only cautions would be to consider the metal used very carefully, as well as the size of the wooden baubles.. perhaps you could encorporate a learning tool with it, make it fun, and educational!

               

              In service to the Dream,

               

              Rodrigo Belmonte

              Oakheart Company of Archers

              Shire of Oakheart

              Kingdom of Calontir



              ----- Original Message ----
              From: i_griffen <i_griffen@...>
              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 7:59:52 PM
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: A Wood finish

              Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
              the right material for the toy.

              What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
              that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
              that rides on the wires.

              As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
              various shapes.

              what do you all think?

              Iain Griffen

              --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@.. .>
              wrote:

              >
              > what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
              > safer if NOT finished.
              >
              > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@. ..> wrote:
              > > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
              make a
              > > toy for my
              grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
              > >
              > > thanks
              > >
              > > Iain Griffen
              > >
              > >
              >


            • leaking pen
              enameled wire, paint the beads with food color, let dry, then soak for an hour in water, let dry and give them a final sand. that should prevent any bleeding
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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                enameled wire, paint the beads with food color, let dry, then soak for
                an hour in water, let dry and give them a final sand. that should
                prevent any bleeding of the food color. make sure all the beads are
                larger than the chokepoint (you can find tools for that at the store
                in the baby aisle) and unfinished will be safer in terms of germs.
                Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
                safer than plastic. as for wood type, id go with white pine, soft on
                the teeth, take color well, very little chance of allergy.

                On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 7:59 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
                > Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
                > the right material for the toy.
                >
                > What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
                > that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
                > that rides on the wires.
                >
                > As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
                > various shapes.
                >
                > what do you all think?
                >
                > Iain Griffen
                >
                > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@...>
                > wrote:
                >
                >>
                >> what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
                >> safer if NOT finished.
                >>
                >> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
                >> > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
                > make a
                >> > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
                >> >
                >> > thanks
                >> >
                >> > Iain Griffen
                >> >
                >> >
                >>
                >
                >
              • donat0
                ... I don t mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is true? Children are
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                  > Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
                  > safer than plastic.

                  I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous
                  misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is
                  true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build
                  strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen
                  equipment is not good.

                  One of the most common transfer points of Salmonella is through
                  improperly cleaned wooden cutting boards- the bacteria can live for
                  weeks if the board is saturated. Admittedly, most dangerous
                  bacteria's are aneorobic (must have no oxygen to live), and wood by
                  nature creates an aerobic environment, I think to assume its safe
                  because its wood beacons us back to "Assume means....."

                  "Pieces of raw and painted wood were observed in the firm's class 100
                  and class 1,000 rooms. Wood is porous, difficult to disinfect, can
                  allow for the growth of bacteria and mold and contamination of the
                  environment."

                  http://tinyurl.com/5g3fvw

                  I am sorry, I don't mean to contradict anybody, but we must always
                  maintain a higher sanitation priority when preparing food for other
                  people.

                  Donato Del Giardinier, Proprietor Rifugio Del Bacchus.
                • paul
                  The sources for Pro wood cutting boards seem to be A note from NH: One of our readers reminded me of the interesting research of Dean Cliver from the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                    The sources for Pro wood cutting boards seem to be

                    A note from NH: One of our readers reminded me of the interesting
                    research of Dean Cliver from the University of California (Davis), a
                    published expert in food safety and foodborne disease. He published a
                    series of articles on the bacterial dangers inherent in cutting boards
                    and methods of disinfecting them. He was surprised to find that wood,
                    reputed to be more bacteria prone and less easily cleaned than plastic
                    cutting boards, actually proved to be more hygienic! Here is a summary
                    of his findings...

                    http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infxtra/infcuttingboard.html

                    and Patrick J. Bird, Ph.D. Keeping Fit Column 599 1998

                    http://www.chefknivestogo.com/woodvsplascu.html

                    I found Several state agriculture extension websites that favor plastic
                    over wood but none of the ones I checked had any information on studies
                    behind there conclusions. Such as

                    http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/health/foodsafety/az1076.html

                    When I checked the USDA website the only thing I found on the topic did
                    not seem to favor one surface over the other
                    http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Cutting_Boards_and_Food_Safety/index.asp

                    One site I found that seemed to cover both sides of the argument
                    evenhanded and did include references was

                    http://www.reluctantgourmet.com/cutting_board.htm

                    Paul


                    donat0 wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
                    > > safer than plastic.
                    >
                    > I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous
                    > misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is
                    > true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build
                    > strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen
                    > equipment is not good.
                    >
                  • Trevor Payne
                    Try using a food grade varnish.  That way when baby chews on it there is not toxic chemicals. Aiden Those who beat their swords into plowshares plow for
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                      Try using a food grade varnish.  That way when baby chews on it there is not toxic chemicals.

                      Aiden

                      "Those who beat their swords into plowshares plow for those who didn't"
                      --Benjamin Franklin--

                      --- On Thu, 8/7/08, Rodrigo Belmonte <rodrigo_belmonte@...> wrote:
                      From: Rodrigo Belmonte <rodrigo_belmonte@...>
                      Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: A Wood finish
                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 10:05 PM

                      If you are making what I think you are making, I have seen them several times in doctors offices and the like. The kids love them, and spend hours playing with them! My only cautions would be to consider the metal used very carefully, as well as the size of the wooden baubles.. perhaps you could encorporate a learning tool with it, make it fun, and educational!

                       

                      In service to the Dream,

                       

                      Rodrigo Belmonte

                      Oakheart Company of Archers

                      Shire of Oakheart

                      Kingdom of Calontir



                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: i_griffen <i_griffen@yahoo. com>
                      To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 7:59:52 PM
                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: A Wood finish

                      Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
                      the right material for the toy.

                      What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
                      that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
                      that rides on the wires.

                      As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
                      various shapes.

                      what do you all think?

                      Iain Griffen

                      --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@.. .>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
                      > safer if NOT finished.
                      >
                      > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@. ..> wrote:
                      > > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
                      make a
                      > > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
                      > >
                      > > thanks
                      > >
                      > > Iain Griffen
                      > >
                      > >
                      >



                    • donat0
                      Thank you, Paul for your quick response. This is becoming a good conversation. To preface my response, I would like to say I prefer to use a wooden board.
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                        Thank you, Paul for your quick response. This is becoming a good
                        conversation. To preface my response, I would like to say I prefer
                        to use a wooden board. Its easier on the cutting blades, and I clean
                        up soon after cutting, especially meats.

                        Your first source, was very interesting...

                        http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infxtra/infcuttingboard.html

                        But I would like to point out...

                        "Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces
                        are found alive inside the wood for some time after application, they
                        evidently do not multiply, and they gradually die. They can be
                        detected only by splitting or gouging the wood or by forcing water
                        completely through from one surface to the other. If a sharp knife is
                        used to cut into the work surfaces after used plastic or wood has
                        been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually, more bacteria
                        are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a used wood
                        surface." (Quote from article)

                        Really, the article stated that wood is OK, and actaully better than
                        plastic if both are scarred from cutting. This doesn't mean wood is
                        antibacterial, or even safe. Just better than plastic if both are
                        scarred. I think what is not said in the article about lingering
                        contamination beacons back to what I said before about anaerobic
                        conditions. If you saturate your wood; replace air in the pores with
                        water, the bacteria can stay alive a lot longer, where plastic is
                        hydrophillic (repels water), and you wouldn't have that problem.

                        This source also doesn't comment about wood being antibacterial..

                        http://www.chefknivestogo.com/woodvsplascu.html

                        But it DOES comment about sanitation practices,

                        "A mild bleach solution will decontaminate plastic and other
                        surfaces. But even at full strength, bleach does not sanitize wood
                        cutting boards. The disinfectant quality of bleach is neutralized by
                        the organic composition of wood. A good procedure for disinfecting
                        both wood and plastic cutting boards, as well as other surfaces and
                        utensils, is to spray them first with a mist of vinegar, then with a
                        mist of hydrogen peroxide." (quote from article)

                        Note, Bleach is totally ineffective against contamination on wood, I
                        didn't know that and will adjust my own cleaning practices. Thanks.

                        You need to read your source on this one again.

                        http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/health/foodsafety/az1076.html

                        "However, more recent studies by the Food and Drug Administration
                        found that microorganisms became trapped in wood surfaces and were
                        difficult to dislodge by rinsing. Once trapped, bacteria survive in a
                        dormant stage for long periods of time. The next time the cutting
                        board is used, these bacteria could contaminate other foods,
                        potentially causing food-borne illness. On the other hand, the study
                        found that microorganisms were easily washed off plastic surfaces."
                        (Quote from FDA article)

                        The last source really didn't say anything one way or the other, so I
                        won't comment on it.

                        Thanks again Paul, for the response. Its always a good thing to get
                        views from different perspectives to explore the "bigger picture" of
                        life.

                        Donato, Proprietor of Rifugio Del Bacchus.
                      • leaking pen
                        http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm Heres a study on salmonella that shows the bacteria was pulled into the wood,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                          http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm

                          Heres a study on salmonella that shows the bacteria was pulled into
                          the wood, dehydrated and killed, did not multiply, and was not
                          available to contaminate on the surface.

                          On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 6:33 AM, donat0 <donat0@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
                          >> safer than plastic.
                          >
                          > I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous
                          > misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is
                          > true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build
                          > strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen
                          > equipment is not good.
                          >
                          > One of the most common transfer points of Salmonella is through
                          > improperly cleaned wooden cutting boards- the bacteria can live for
                          > weeks if the board is saturated. Admittedly, most dangerous
                          > bacteria's are aneorobic (must have no oxygen to live), and wood by
                          > nature creates an aerobic environment, I think to assume its safe
                          > because its wood beacons us back to "Assume means....."
                          >
                          > "Pieces of raw and painted wood were observed in the firm's class 100
                          > and class 1,000 rooms. Wood is porous, difficult to disinfect, can
                          > allow for the growth of bacteria and mold and contamination of the
                          > environment."
                          >
                          > http://tinyurl.com/5g3fvw
                          >
                          > I am sorry, I don't mean to contradict anybody, but we must always
                          > maintain a higher sanitation priority when preparing food for other
                          > people.
                          >
                          > Donato Del Giardinier, Proprietor Rifugio Del Bacchus.
                          >
                          >
                        • AlbionWood
                          The bottom line on cutting boards is, both wood and plastic are safe if you keep them clean and keep them dry - and neither are safe if you do not. The
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                            The bottom line on cutting boards is, both wood and plastic are safe if
                            you keep them clean and keep them dry - and neither are safe if you do
                            not. The differences between the two materials are interesting but
                            negligible in terms of personal use. (Commercial food preparation use
                            patterns are very different, the materials have less chance to dry out
                            as they are in use more continuously, so bacteria populations can build
                            up faster.)

                            Wash well, wipe with vinegar, keep dry between uses, and you'll be safe
                            with either material.

                            Now back to the original question - as others noted, no finish at all is
                            probably best for this application, but in practice all modern finishes
                            are safe when fully cured. Bob Flexner has been trying for years to
                            combat the persistent belief that wood finishes are toxic. They are
                            not. But if you don't believe him, use shellac - it is in fact
                            food-safe, used to coat pills, among other things.

                            Cheers,
                            Tim
                          • Rebekah d'Avignon
                            donat0 wrote: I don t mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous misinformation. Could you please show us a source
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                              donat0 <donat0@...> wrote:
                              I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen equipment is not good.
                              Um......wrong.
                              One of the most common transfer points of Salmonella is through improperly cleaned wooden cutting boards- the bacteria can live for weeks if the board is saturated.
                              Sorry.....read the item below.

                              "Pieces of raw and painted wood were observed in the firm's class 100 and class 1,000 rooms. Wood is porous, difficult to disinfect, can allow for the growth of bacteria and mold and contamination of the environment. "

                              Donato Del Giardinier, Proprietor Rifugio Del Bacchus.
                              .

                               
                               


                              RdA
                              Tools alone do not a craftsman make.

                            • bayard_turner
                              Bob Flexner, author of Understanding Wood Finishing , wrote an article for the Spring 2008 American Woodturner. He says that all the Salad Bowl Finishes ,
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                                Bob Flexner, author of "Understanding Wood Finishing", wrote an
                                article for the Spring 2008 American Woodturner. He says that all the
                                "Salad Bowl Finishes", etc., are simply alkyd varnishes thinned with
                                mineral spirits - "wiping varnishes." They contain the same driers as
                                any other varnish and are no more or less safe. All the driers used
                                in varnish and drying oils like BLO are approved by the FDA (Bob says
                                to google "21CFR175.300" and click on the top link). His contention
                                is that all finishes - varnish, drying oils, lacquer, etc. are
                                "food-safe" after they have fully cured.

                                Given that information, what finish would handle rough use over time
                                best? A surface finish, like poly, lays on top of the wood, and
                                provides good protection from water, drool, etc. An oil like BLO
                                soaks in, but offers little protection at the surface. I'd go with
                                what works best for you on other projects.

                                Bayard

                                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "lambdakennels1@..."
                                <lambdakennels1@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > You can get a can of "toy maker finish" from a wood store such as
                                Rockler or Woordcraft. I have a can. It says it is child safe after
                                three or four coats when cured 48 hours after the last coat. I have
                                not used it -- stopped making things that needed that sort of thing,
                                so can't tell you how it does.
                                >
                                >
                                > Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
                                > http://lambdafarm.mysite.com/
                                > Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
                                > K5AMK
                                >
                                >
                                > -- "i_griffen" <i_griffen@...> wrote:
                                > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to make a
                                > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
                                >
                                >
                                > thanks
                                >
                                > Iain Griffen
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
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                                >
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