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A Wood finish

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  • i_griffen
    Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to make a toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe. thanks Iain Griffen
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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      Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to make a
      toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.


      thanks

      Iain Griffen
    • lambdakennels1@juno.com
      You can get a can of toy maker finish from a wood store such as Rockler or Woordcraft. I have a can. It says it is child safe after three or four coats
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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        You can get a can of "toy maker finish" from a wood store such as Rockler or Woordcraft.  I have a can.  It says it is child safe after three or four coats when cured 48 hours after the last coat.  I have not used it -- stopped making things that needed that sort of thing, so can't tell you how it does.


        Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
        http://lambdafarm.mysite.com/
        Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
        K5AMK


        -- "i_griffen" <i_griffen@...> wrote:
        Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe?  I want to make a
        toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.


        thanks

        Iain Griffen


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      • leaking pen
        what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are safer if NOT finished.
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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          what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
          safer if NOT finished.

          On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
          > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to make a
          > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
          >
          > thanks
          >
          > Iain Griffen
          >
          >
        • Alex Haugland
          It depends on what kind of finish you want... Mineral oil is safe for most people, as is natural beeswax. Carnuba wax is commonly used on candies, though
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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            It depends on what kind of finish you want...  Mineral oil is safe for most people, as is natural beeswax.  Carnuba wax is commonly used on candies, though you'd have to make sure it's pure and doesn't have any solvents, etc. that are not food-safe.  The waxes and mineral oil won't protect the surface from dirt and moisture as well as a urethane, however...

            --Alysaundre Weldon d'Ath
            Barony of Adiantum, An Tir

            i_griffen wrote:

            Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to make a
            toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.

            thanks

            Iain Griffen


          • i_griffen
            Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for the right material for the toy. What I want to make is formed wire device that has several
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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              Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
              the right material for the toy.

              What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
              that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
              that rides on the wires.

              As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
              various shapes.

              what do you all think?


              Iain Griffen


              --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
              > safer if NOT finished.
              >
              > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
              > > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
              make a
              > > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
              > >
              > > thanks
              > >
              > > Iain Griffen
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Rodrigo Belmonte
              If you are making what I think you are making, I have seen them several times in doctors offices and the like. The kids love them, and spend hours playing with
              Message 6 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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                If you are making what I think you are making, I have seen them several times in doctors offices and the like. The kids love them, and spend hours playing with them! My only cautions would be to consider the metal used very carefully, as well as the size of the wooden baubles.. perhaps you could encorporate a learning tool with it, make it fun, and educational!

                 

                In service to the Dream,

                 

                Rodrigo Belmonte

                Oakheart Company of Archers

                Shire of Oakheart

                Kingdom of Calontir



                ----- Original Message ----
                From: i_griffen <i_griffen@...>
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 7:59:52 PM
                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: A Wood finish

                Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
                the right material for the toy.

                What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
                that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
                that rides on the wires.

                As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
                various shapes.

                what do you all think?

                Iain Griffen

                --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@.. .>
                wrote:

                >
                > what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
                > safer if NOT finished.
                >
                > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@. ..> wrote:
                > > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
                make a
                > > toy for my
                grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
                > >
                > > thanks
                > >
                > > Iain Griffen
                > >
                > >
                >


              • leaking pen
                enameled wire, paint the beads with food color, let dry, then soak for an hour in water, let dry and give them a final sand. that should prevent any bleeding
                Message 7 of 15 , Aug 7, 2008
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                  enameled wire, paint the beads with food color, let dry, then soak for
                  an hour in water, let dry and give them a final sand. that should
                  prevent any bleeding of the food color. make sure all the beads are
                  larger than the chokepoint (you can find tools for that at the store
                  in the baby aisle) and unfinished will be safer in terms of germs.
                  Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
                  safer than plastic. as for wood type, id go with white pine, soft on
                  the teeth, take color well, very little chance of allergy.

                  On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 7:59 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
                  > Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
                  > the right material for the toy.
                  >
                  > What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
                  > that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
                  > that rides on the wires.
                  >
                  > As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
                  > various shapes.
                  >
                  > what do you all think?
                  >
                  > Iain Griffen
                  >
                  > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >> what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
                  >> safer if NOT finished.
                  >>
                  >> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@...> wrote:
                  >> > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
                  > make a
                  >> > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
                  >> >
                  >> > thanks
                  >> >
                  >> > Iain Griffen
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                • donat0
                  ... I don t mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is true? Children are
                  Message 8 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                    > Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
                    > safer than plastic.

                    I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous
                    misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is
                    true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build
                    strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen
                    equipment is not good.

                    One of the most common transfer points of Salmonella is through
                    improperly cleaned wooden cutting boards- the bacteria can live for
                    weeks if the board is saturated. Admittedly, most dangerous
                    bacteria's are aneorobic (must have no oxygen to live), and wood by
                    nature creates an aerobic environment, I think to assume its safe
                    because its wood beacons us back to "Assume means....."

                    "Pieces of raw and painted wood were observed in the firm's class 100
                    and class 1,000 rooms. Wood is porous, difficult to disinfect, can
                    allow for the growth of bacteria and mold and contamination of the
                    environment."

                    http://tinyurl.com/5g3fvw

                    I am sorry, I don't mean to contradict anybody, but we must always
                    maintain a higher sanitation priority when preparing food for other
                    people.

                    Donato Del Giardinier, Proprietor Rifugio Del Bacchus.
                  • paul
                    The sources for Pro wood cutting boards seem to be A note from NH: One of our readers reminded me of the interesting research of Dean Cliver from the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                      The sources for Pro wood cutting boards seem to be

                      A note from NH: One of our readers reminded me of the interesting
                      research of Dean Cliver from the University of California (Davis), a
                      published expert in food safety and foodborne disease. He published a
                      series of articles on the bacterial dangers inherent in cutting boards
                      and methods of disinfecting them. He was surprised to find that wood,
                      reputed to be more bacteria prone and less easily cleaned than plastic
                      cutting boards, actually proved to be more hygienic! Here is a summary
                      of his findings...

                      http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infxtra/infcuttingboard.html

                      and Patrick J. Bird, Ph.D. Keeping Fit Column 599 1998

                      http://www.chefknivestogo.com/woodvsplascu.html

                      I found Several state agriculture extension websites that favor plastic
                      over wood but none of the ones I checked had any information on studies
                      behind there conclusions. Such as

                      http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/health/foodsafety/az1076.html

                      When I checked the USDA website the only thing I found on the topic did
                      not seem to favor one surface over the other
                      http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Cutting_Boards_and_Food_Safety/index.asp

                      One site I found that seemed to cover both sides of the argument
                      evenhanded and did include references was

                      http://www.reluctantgourmet.com/cutting_board.htm

                      Paul


                      donat0 wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > > Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
                      > > safer than plastic.
                      >
                      > I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous
                      > misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is
                      > true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build
                      > strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen
                      > equipment is not good.
                      >
                    • Trevor Payne
                      Try using a food grade varnish.  That way when baby chews on it there is not toxic chemicals. Aiden Those who beat their swords into plowshares plow for
                      Message 10 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                        Try using a food grade varnish.  That way when baby chews on it there is not toxic chemicals.

                        Aiden

                        "Those who beat their swords into plowshares plow for those who didn't"
                        --Benjamin Franklin--

                        --- On Thu, 8/7/08, Rodrigo Belmonte <rodrigo_belmonte@...> wrote:
                        From: Rodrigo Belmonte <rodrigo_belmonte@...>
                        Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Re: A Wood finish
                        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, August 7, 2008, 10:05 PM

                        If you are making what I think you are making, I have seen them several times in doctors offices and the like. The kids love them, and spend hours playing with them! My only cautions would be to consider the metal used very carefully, as well as the size of the wooden baubles.. perhaps you could encorporate a learning tool with it, make it fun, and educational!

                         

                        In service to the Dream,

                         

                        Rodrigo Belmonte

                        Oakheart Company of Archers

                        Shire of Oakheart

                        Kingdom of Calontir



                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: i_griffen <i_griffen@yahoo. com>
                        To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Thursday, August 7, 2008 7:59:52 PM
                        Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: A Wood finish

                        Since my grand daughter is only 3 weeks old I have time to look for
                        the right material for the toy.

                        What I want to make is formed wire device that has several shapes
                        that are secured to a couple of pieces of wood with different shapes
                        that rides on the wires.

                        As for the wood I am thinking about wooden beads, brcaues of the
                        various shapes.

                        what do you all think?

                        Iain Griffen

                        --- In medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com, "leaking pen" <itsatrap@.. .>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > what wood are you using? most toys for babys made out of wood are
                        > safer if NOT finished.
                        >
                        > On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 12:37 PM, i_griffen <i_griffen@. ..> wrote:
                        > > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to
                        make a
                        > > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
                        > >
                        > > thanks
                        > >
                        > > Iain Griffen
                        > >
                        > >
                        >



                      • donat0
                        Thank you, Paul for your quick response. This is becoming a good conversation. To preface my response, I would like to say I prefer to use a wooden board.
                        Message 11 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                          Thank you, Paul for your quick response. This is becoming a good
                          conversation. To preface my response, I would like to say I prefer
                          to use a wooden board. Its easier on the cutting blades, and I clean
                          up soon after cutting, especially meats.

                          Your first source, was very interesting...

                          http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infxtra/infcuttingboard.html

                          But I would like to point out...

                          "Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces
                          are found alive inside the wood for some time after application, they
                          evidently do not multiply, and they gradually die. They can be
                          detected only by splitting or gouging the wood or by forcing water
                          completely through from one surface to the other. If a sharp knife is
                          used to cut into the work surfaces after used plastic or wood has
                          been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually, more bacteria
                          are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a used wood
                          surface." (Quote from article)

                          Really, the article stated that wood is OK, and actaully better than
                          plastic if both are scarred from cutting. This doesn't mean wood is
                          antibacterial, or even safe. Just better than plastic if both are
                          scarred. I think what is not said in the article about lingering
                          contamination beacons back to what I said before about anaerobic
                          conditions. If you saturate your wood; replace air in the pores with
                          water, the bacteria can stay alive a lot longer, where plastic is
                          hydrophillic (repels water), and you wouldn't have that problem.

                          This source also doesn't comment about wood being antibacterial..

                          http://www.chefknivestogo.com/woodvsplascu.html

                          But it DOES comment about sanitation practices,

                          "A mild bleach solution will decontaminate plastic and other
                          surfaces. But even at full strength, bleach does not sanitize wood
                          cutting boards. The disinfectant quality of bleach is neutralized by
                          the organic composition of wood. A good procedure for disinfecting
                          both wood and plastic cutting boards, as well as other surfaces and
                          utensils, is to spray them first with a mist of vinegar, then with a
                          mist of hydrogen peroxide." (quote from article)

                          Note, Bleach is totally ineffective against contamination on wood, I
                          didn't know that and will adjust my own cleaning practices. Thanks.

                          You need to read your source on this one again.

                          http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/health/foodsafety/az1076.html

                          "However, more recent studies by the Food and Drug Administration
                          found that microorganisms became trapped in wood surfaces and were
                          difficult to dislodge by rinsing. Once trapped, bacteria survive in a
                          dormant stage for long periods of time. The next time the cutting
                          board is used, these bacteria could contaminate other foods,
                          potentially causing food-borne illness. On the other hand, the study
                          found that microorganisms were easily washed off plastic surfaces."
                          (Quote from FDA article)

                          The last source really didn't say anything one way or the other, so I
                          won't comment on it.

                          Thanks again Paul, for the response. Its always a good thing to get
                          views from different perspectives to explore the "bigger picture" of
                          life.

                          Donato, Proprietor of Rifugio Del Bacchus.
                        • leaking pen
                          http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm Heres a study on salmonella that shows the bacteria was pulled into the wood,
                          Message 12 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                            http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm

                            Heres a study on salmonella that shows the bacteria was pulled into
                            the wood, dehydrated and killed, did not multiply, and was not
                            available to contaminate on the surface.

                            On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 6:33 AM, donat0 <donat0@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> Wood is a natural antibiotic, which is why wooden cutting boards are
                            >> safer than plastic.
                            >
                            > I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous
                            > misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is
                            > true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build
                            > strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen
                            > equipment is not good.
                            >
                            > One of the most common transfer points of Salmonella is through
                            > improperly cleaned wooden cutting boards- the bacteria can live for
                            > weeks if the board is saturated. Admittedly, most dangerous
                            > bacteria's are aneorobic (must have no oxygen to live), and wood by
                            > nature creates an aerobic environment, I think to assume its safe
                            > because its wood beacons us back to "Assume means....."
                            >
                            > "Pieces of raw and painted wood were observed in the firm's class 100
                            > and class 1,000 rooms. Wood is porous, difficult to disinfect, can
                            > allow for the growth of bacteria and mold and contamination of the
                            > environment."
                            >
                            > http://tinyurl.com/5g3fvw
                            >
                            > I am sorry, I don't mean to contradict anybody, but we must always
                            > maintain a higher sanitation priority when preparing food for other
                            > people.
                            >
                            > Donato Del Giardinier, Proprietor Rifugio Del Bacchus.
                            >
                            >
                          • AlbionWood
                            The bottom line on cutting boards is, both wood and plastic are safe if you keep them clean and keep them dry - and neither are safe if you do not. The
                            Message 13 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                              The bottom line on cutting boards is, both wood and plastic are safe if
                              you keep them clean and keep them dry - and neither are safe if you do
                              not. The differences between the two materials are interesting but
                              negligible in terms of personal use. (Commercial food preparation use
                              patterns are very different, the materials have less chance to dry out
                              as they are in use more continuously, so bacteria populations can build
                              up faster.)

                              Wash well, wipe with vinegar, keep dry between uses, and you'll be safe
                              with either material.

                              Now back to the original question - as others noted, no finish at all is
                              probably best for this application, but in practice all modern finishes
                              are safe when fully cured. Bob Flexner has been trying for years to
                              combat the persistent belief that wood finishes are toxic. They are
                              not. But if you don't believe him, use shellac - it is in fact
                              food-safe, used to coat pills, among other things.

                              Cheers,
                              Tim
                            • Rebekah d'Avignon
                              donat0 wrote: I don t mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous misinformation. Could you please show us a source
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                                donat0 <donat0@...> wrote:
                                I don't mean to pick nits here, but I believe this is dangerous misinformation. Could you please show us a source showing this is true? Children are supposed to be exposed to contaminants to build strong immune systems, but to claim sanitary values for kitchen equipment is not good.
                                Um......wrong.
                                One of the most common transfer points of Salmonella is through improperly cleaned wooden cutting boards- the bacteria can live for weeks if the board is saturated.
                                Sorry.....read the item below.

                                "Pieces of raw and painted wood were observed in the firm's class 100 and class 1,000 rooms. Wood is porous, difficult to disinfect, can allow for the growth of bacteria and mold and contamination of the environment. "

                                Donato Del Giardinier, Proprietor Rifugio Del Bacchus.
                                .

                                 
                                 


                                RdA
                                Tools alone do not a craftsman make.

                              • bayard_turner
                                Bob Flexner, author of Understanding Wood Finishing , wrote an article for the Spring 2008 American Woodturner. He says that all the Salad Bowl Finishes ,
                                Message 15 of 15 , Aug 8, 2008
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                                  Bob Flexner, author of "Understanding Wood Finishing", wrote an
                                  article for the Spring 2008 American Woodturner. He says that all the
                                  "Salad Bowl Finishes", etc., are simply alkyd varnishes thinned with
                                  mineral spirits - "wiping varnishes." They contain the same driers as
                                  any other varnish and are no more or less safe. All the driers used
                                  in varnish and drying oils like BLO are approved by the FDA (Bob says
                                  to google "21CFR175.300" and click on the top link). His contention
                                  is that all finishes - varnish, drying oils, lacquer, etc. are
                                  "food-safe" after they have fully cured.

                                  Given that information, what finish would handle rough use over time
                                  best? A surface finish, like poly, lays on top of the wood, and
                                  provides good protection from water, drool, etc. An oil like BLO
                                  soaks in, but offers little protection at the surface. I'd go with
                                  what works best for you on other projects.

                                  Bayard

                                  --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "lambdakennels1@..."
                                  <lambdakennels1@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > You can get a can of "toy maker finish" from a wood store such as
                                  Rockler or Woordcraft. I have a can. It says it is child safe after
                                  three or four coats when cured 48 hours after the last coat. I have
                                  not used it -- stopped making things that needed that sort of thing,
                                  so can't tell you how it does.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Stephanie Smith, Ph.D
                                  > http://lambdafarm.mysite.com/
                                  > Owned by a Poodle and an Australian Cattle Dog
                                  > K5AMK
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -- "i_griffen" <i_griffen@...> wrote:
                                  > Can anyone recommend a wood finish that is baby safe? I want to make a
                                  > toy for my grand daughter and want to make it paint/finish safe.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > thanks
                                  >
                                  > Iain Griffen
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
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                                  >
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