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RE: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand

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  • julian wilson
    WILL WROTE ... COMMENT Will, I agree with you. For example, I have an 60-year-old American  4&1/2pt Disston Rip Saw, WITH THE MEDALLION USED BETWEEN 1942-53.
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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      WILL WROTE

      > Hand ripping is a lot of work. When I'm working a piece for A&S and want
      > to
      > do it in the old way, power-ripping is the last modern convenience I let
      > go.
      > (Other than artificial light/heat in the workshop)
      >
      > Will

      COMMENT
      Will, I agree with you.
      For example, I have an 60-year-old American  4&1/2pt Disston Rip Saw, WITH THE MEDALLION USED BETWEEN 1942-53.
      My Master gave it to me when I was assembling my very first toolkit as a young teenager.
      Before power tools became so relatively cheap, and I could afford my own, I used to use that rip-saw  frequently. It must be 30 years since I used it last. 
      Where I live it has gotten so expensive to have handsaw re-sharpened that it's actually cheaper to buy "disposable" saws.
      So the Disston is hanging on the wall of my workshop with the rest of my original, quality handsaws, - all of them well coated in rust-inhibitor, but hardly ever used because it's easier, cheaper. and quicker to use a portable power saw, or one of my tablesaws, or my chop saw, or my bandsaw...
      For my part, the only time I'd consider making anything completely with hand tools these days, - would be if a Client was PAYING me to do exactly that.
      I'd probably quote them a "telephone number" in the hope that they'd go somewhere else; and if they accepted that, - then it would be well worth my while to set my other commercial work aside for a time, and enjoy being VERY well rewarded for using my Craft's traditional Skill Set.
       
      Servus,
      Matthew
    • Bill McNutt
      One of the most valuable things my old boss taught me: When people want you to do things you dislike, keep raising your price. Eventually, either they will
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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        One of the most valuable things my old boss taught me:
         
        When people want you to do things you dislike, keep raising your price.  Eventually, either they will quit asking you to do it, OR, for that kind of money, you won't mind so much any more.
         
        Will


        From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of julian wilson
        Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 3:32 PM
        To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand


        I'd probably quote them a "telephone number" in the hope that they'd go somewhere else; and if they accepted that, - then it would be well worth my while to set my other commercial work aside for a time, and enjoy being VERY well rewarded for using my Craft's traditional Skill Set.
         
        Servus,

        .

      • Karl Christoffers
        Greetings the list,   I am working up to hand-sawing boards, but my saw sharpening skills are not yet up to the job. Bearing that in mind I have read two
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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          Greetings the list,
           
          I am working up to hand-sawing boards, but my saw sharpening skills are not yet up to the job. Bearing that in mind I have read two articles recently which bear on hand sawing. The first is "How to Saw" (striking originality) by Chris Schwartz in the Spring 2008 (#9) of "Woodworking Magazine" which seems on point and useful. The second is saw bench design in the June 2005 (#148) issue of "Popular Woodworking."
           
          And I took a look at the photo-essay on hand sawing (thanks Aiden). Why, with the option of having the boards be any thickness at all, did Justus choose 4/4 and make them look saw-mill made?

          -Malcolm

          --- On Tue, 6/3/08, Anthony Bayer <tonybayer73@...> wrote:

          From: Anthony Bayer <tonybayer73@...>
          Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand
          To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 9:43 AM






          Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
          tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
          practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
          the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
          to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
          anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
          tools/techniques, etc.

          Tony
        • Rebekah d'Avignon
          I d start with reading anything and everything by Roy Underhill. Regardless of the time period, the tools and techniques haven t changed THAT much. I don t
          Message 4 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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            I'd start with reading anything and everything by Roy Underhill. Regardless of the time period, the tools and techniques haven't changed THAT much. I don't want to get drawn into another discussion on the differences of the metals used.
             
            Roy frequently rips boards on his show. True, he is a Master Woodworker and it's not as easy as it looks. His books are usually in libraries (try inter-library loan) but they are worth it for the home library. He also has some nice projects.


            Anthony Bayer <tonybayer73@...> wrote:
            Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
            tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
            practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
            the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
            to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
            anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
            tools/techniques, etc.

            Tony




            RdA
            Tools alone do not a craftsman make.

          • Dave Ordway
            I have been using Japanese style pull saws for years now and have found no hand saw to be their equal. A good starter can be found in Lowes under the name
            Message 5 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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              I have been using "Japanese" style pull saws for years now and have found no hand saw to be their equal.  A good starter can be found in Lowes under the name of "Bear Saw".  Cost around twenty bucks.  They have several varieties.  Start with the combination model.  It's a good saw for rip and crosscuts.  It takes some practice getting used to the flexibility of the blade.  I have learned to go slow and resist the urge to rip the material at the speed that the saw will accommodate.  Keep your hands clear.  The blade will flex and likes to seek a finger or the back of the hand upon occasion.  Smooth and steady is the key.  Let the saw do the work and you will be amazed at how fast it accomplishes it.  If the blade vibrates, you're moving to fast.  My wife bought me a combination saw made in Japan a couple of years ago as a gift.  I still cringe every time I use it.  It should be on display with other replicas of cutting utensils but it's just too damn nice to let sit.
               
              Lagerstein
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 12:43 PM
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand

              Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
              tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
              practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
              the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
              to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
              anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
              tools/techniques, etc.

              Tony

            • Chuck Phillips
              Along with the collected works of St. Roy, there is another list you really should check out (If you re not already subscribed): Oldtools. This garrulous
              Message 6 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                Along with the collected works of St. Roy, there is another list you really should check out (If you’re not already subscribed): Oldtools.  This garrulous gathering of gregarious Galoots got going lo these many years ago as an offshoot of rec.woodworking.  More than a few of the members have already gone down the quiet path (and most of the rest are well down the slippery slope), and the collective wisdom of the porch is impressive.  To subscribe, go to http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools and submit a request.  Once you’re subscribed, it’s considered polite to post a bio (Brief or long-winded, your choice.)   Discussions sometimes drift a bit off topic, but flame wars are actively quashed, as we consider the list to be the moral equivalent of sitting on a friend’s porch having a friendly discussion.

                 

                Charles Joiner

                Mostly lurking on Oldtools since about day 10…

                 

                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rebekah d'Avignon
                Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:01 PM
                To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand

                 

                I'd start with reading anything and everything by Roy Underhill. Regardless of the time period, the tools and techniques haven't changed THAT much. I don't want to get drawn into another discussion on the differences of the metals used.

                 

                Roy frequently rips boards on his show. True, he is a Master Woodworker and it's not as easy as it looks. His books are usually in libraries (try inter-library loan) but they are worth it for the home library. He also has some nice projects.



                Anthony Bayer <tonybayer73@...> wrote:

                Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
                tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
                practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
                the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
                to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
                anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
                tools/techniques, etc.

                Tony



                RdA

                Tools alone do not a craftsman make.

                 

              • Avery Austringer
                It can be done. About two months ago I was building something for the yard out of treated lumber. For part of it I was using fence rails that were a full
                Message 7 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                  It can be done. About two months ago I was building something for the
                  yard out of treated lumber. For part of it I was using fence rails
                  that were a full inch thick and 5-1/2 wide. For another part I needed
                  a full inch by 7-1/2 wide but no such beast was available.

                  Because I didn't want to get copper salts all over myself, my shop and,
                  most important of all, my cast iron tables my wife and I resawed 6 foot
                  of 2x8 by hand. It wasn't all that bad but I'm not exatcly eager to do
                  it again. In addition to having sharp tools, have a good way to hold
                  the lumber you're wanting to cut. For us it was a two person job
                  because we had no good way to hold the work. (In a couple days when I
                  post pictures of the bench I'm finally finishing up, this is a large
                  part of the motivation.)

                  Avery
                • Jeff Johnson
                  If you look at the medieval illustrations that depict handsaws, they look like some may be pullsaws. See the Merode alterpiece, right panel , at Joseph s feet.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                    If you look at the medieval illustrations that depict handsaws, they
                    look like some may be pullsaws. See the Merode alterpiece, right panel
                    , at Joseph's feet. It's hard to tell for sure, though, as the
                    orientation of the teeth isn't apparent. But look at the handle design
                    : a straight stick. Not very useful as a push-saw.

                    --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Ordway" <dabugler@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > I have been using "Japanese" style pull saws for years now and have
                    found no hand saw to be their equal. A good starter can be found in
                    Lowes under the name of "Bear Saw". Cost around twenty bucks. They
                    have several varieties. Start with the combination model. It's a
                    good saw for rip and crosscuts. It takes some practice getting used
                    to the flexibility of the blade. I have learned to go slow and resist
                    the urge to rip the material at the speed that the saw will
                    accommodate. Keep your hands clear. The blade will flex and likes to
                    seek a finger or the back of the hand upon occasion. Smooth and
                    steady is the key. Let the saw do the work and you will be amazed at
                    how fast it accomplishes it. If the blade vibrates, you're moving to
                    fast. My wife bought me a combination saw made in Japan a couple of
                    years ago as a gift. I still cringe every time I use it. It should
                    be on display with other replicas of cutting utensils but it's just
                    too damn nice to let sit.
                    >
                    > Lagerstein
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Anthony Bayer
                    > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 12:43 PM
                    > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
                    > tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
                    > practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
                    > the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
                    > to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
                    > anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
                    > tools/techniques, etc.
                    >
                    > Tony
                    >
                  • Ralph Lindberg
                    ... Now that brings back memories... About 1 million years ago (internet time) I ran the straw-poll that decided that rec.woodworking shouldn t split. At the
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                      --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Phillips" <chuck@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Along with the collected works of St. Roy, there is another list you
                      > really should check out (If you're not already subscribed): Oldtools.
                      > This garrulous gathering of gregarious Galoots got going lo these many
                      > years ago as an offshoot of rec.woodworking.

                      Now that brings back memories... About 1 million years ago (internet
                      time) I ran the straw-poll that decided that rec.woodworking shouldn't
                      split.

                      At the start of the discussion there were hundreds of posts to the
                      newsgroup, every day. So many that it was easy to lose entire
                      discussions. At the time there was only really -one- on-line "forum"
                      for woodworking, that was "the rec". Many thought something had to
                      change, others didn't.

                      The poll failed and rec.woodworking didn't split.

                      Of course the Neanderthals and Turners just went their own ways, with
                      the old-tool e-mail list and the new newsgroup rec.crafts.woodturning.

                      Like I said, brings back memories

                      TTFN
                      Ralg
                      AnTir
                    • Syr Justus de Tyre
                      If you look at the medieval illustrations that depict handsaws, they look like some may be pullsaws. See the Merode alterpiece, right panel , at Joseph s
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                        "If you look at the medieval illustrations that depict handsaws, they
                        look like some may be pullsaws. See the Merode alterpiece, right panel
                        , at Joseph's feet. It's hard to tell for sure, though, as the
                        orientation of the teeth isn't apparent. But look at the handle design
                        : a straight stick. Not very useful as a push-saw."

                        There are two saws of that description in the Mastermyr chest, it's
                        shaped more like a knife than what we think of as a saw with a "D"
                        handle. Both of them are push saws, as in the teeth face forward. One
                        is definitely filed for crosscutting, and the other may be filed for
                        ripping. they are fairly thick and would stand up to being pushed.
                        Think of them as joinery saws though, fairly light work, not for
                        resawing thick boards.

                        http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3079/2552088897_7e1b5f8448_o.jpg

                        http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2334/2552088981_4f2812324f_b.jpg

                        -Justus
                      • Syr Justus de Tyre
                        And I took a look at the photo-essay on hand sawing (thanks Aiden). Why, with the option of having the boards be any thickness at all, did Justus choose 4/4
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                          "And I took a look at the photo-essay on hand sawing (thanks Aiden).
                          Why, with the option of having the boards be any thickness at all, did
                          Justus choose 4/4 and make them look saw-mill made?

                          -Malcolm"

                          Because 4/4 is what I needed. : )

                          I actually cut them a little thicker, the finished dimension is 4/4.
                          those boards are now part of a strong box that I made for a freind.
                          I'll see if I can dig up pictures.
                          Some of that live oak has been turned into 2x2 stock for a chest I'm
                          planning, some has been used for various small tools, (made a
                          beautiful marking gauge out of a piece of throwaway scrap.) And much
                          of it is still in it's original 11x11 state, though I did cut some of
                          the beams when I moved them because they were too long to fit in the
                          truck. (that was some hard thinking there as to future projects)

                          -Justus
                        • Syr Justus de Tyre
                          ... Thank you Aiden for uploading the tutorial I made about ripping boards by hand. The site that they used to be hosted on is no more so I have re-uploaded
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                            --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Bayer"
                            <tonybayer73@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
                            > tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
                            > practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
                            > the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
                            > to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
                            > anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
                            > tools/techniques, etc.
                            >
                            > Tony


                            Thank you Aiden for uploading the tutorial I made about ripping boards
                            by hand. The site that they used to be hosted on is no more so I have
                            re-uploaded them to my new site. You can get much larger pictures
                            there than are available in the PDF. I've also updated the text a bit.

                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/sets/72157605421219053/

                            In addition to the resawing essay I made one about working from the
                            tree without using saws which is the best way to go if it is available
                            to you.

                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/sets/72157605421849983/

                            I will have the text finished for the hand saw essay soon.

                            -Justus
                          • Brian Tychonski
                            I ve got a chimenea for my cut offs. When the weather permits (no air quality advisories and outdoor temps below 80 degrees, I fire it up and chuck them in.
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                              I've got a chimenea for my cut offs. When the weather permits (no air quality advisories and outdoor temps below 80 degrees, I fire it up and chuck them in. I've been known to melt beer bottles and soda cans in it. I think it may be getting too hot, it's starting to have heat cracks up and down it.
                               
                              Brian the Pyro Broadaxe
                            • Bill McNutt
                              Yeah. I don t do ceramics or glass myself, but I m surrounded by them. Rule of thumb: if you can melt glass bottles, your clay chimenea is getting too hot.
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jun 5, 2008
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                                Yeah.  I don't do ceramics or glass myself, but I'm surrounded by them.
                                 
                                Rule of thumb:  if you can melt glass bottles, your clay chimenea is getting too hot.
                                 
                                Will


                                From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Tychonski
                                Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:10 AM
                                To: medievalsawdust
                                Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Ripping board by hand

                                I've got a chimenea for my cut offs. When the weather permits (no air quality advisories and outdoor temps below 80 degrees, I fire it up and chuck them in. I've been known to melt beer bottles and soda cans in it. I think it may be getting too hot, it's starting to have heat cracks up and down it.
                                 
                                Brian the Pyro Broadaxe

                              • Karl Christoffers
                                ... From: Syr Justus de Tyre <atlantianbard@yahoo.com> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Ripping board by hand To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com Date:
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jun 5, 2008
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                                  --- On Wed, 6/4/08, Syr Justus de Tyre <atlantianbard@...> wrote:
                                  From: Syr Justus de Tyre <atlantianbard@...>
                                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Ripping board by hand
                                  To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2008, 8:19 PM

                                  "And I took a look at the photo-essay on hand sawing (thanks Aiden).
                                  Why, with the option of having the boards be any thickness at all, did
                                  Justus choose 4/4 and make them look saw-mill made?

                                  -Malcolm"

                                  Because 4/4 is what I needed. : )

                                  I *so* deserved that.

                                  -Malcolm

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