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RE: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand

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  • Bill McNutt
    I SO want a wood stove that I can fuel with off cuts and a burn-bin. Sadly, there s just not enough room to set one up safely. Will _____ From:
    Message 1 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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      I SO want a wood stove that I can fuel with off cuts and a burn-bin.  Sadly, there's just not enough room to set one up safely.
       
      Will


      From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of maf@...
      Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 3:01 PM
      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand

      What you don't have a wood stove powered by shavings and sawdust... I'm
      disapointed :)

      Mark

      > Same as everything else: keep your
      tools really, really sharp, and rust
      > free.
      >
      > Hand ripping
      is a lot of work. When I'm working a piece for A&S and want
      >
      to
      > do it in the old way, power-ripping is the last modern convenience I
      let
      > go.
      > (Other than artificial light/heat in the
      workshop)
      >
      > Will
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From:
      href="mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com">medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
      >
      [mailto:medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Anthony Bayer
      > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 12:44 PM
      >
      To: medievalsawdust@ yahoogroups. com
      >
      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand
      >
      >
      >
      >
      Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
      >
      tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
      > practicing
      flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
      > the next
      step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
      > to rip and
      crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
      > anyone does this
      and is willing to offer up some advice on
      > tools/techniques,
      etc.
      >
      >
      Tony
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

    • maf@gleichen.ca
      I ve been looking at one that only needs 2-3 feet of clearance all around for my shop, sadly I just don t have enough room until I get around to building that
      Message 2 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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        I've been looking at one that only needs 2-3 feet of clearance all around
        for my shop, sadly I just don't have enough room until I get around to
        building that addition in a couple of years.

        Mark

        > I SO want a wood stove that I can fuel with off cuts and a burn-bin.
        > Sadly,
        > there's just not enough room to set one up safely.
        >
        > Will
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of maf@...
        > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 3:01 PM
        > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand
        >
        >
        >
        > What you don't have a wood stove powered by shavings and sawdust... I'm
        > disapointed :)
        >
        > Mark
        >
        >> Same as everything else: keep your tools really, really sharp, and rust
        >> free.
        >>
        >> Hand ripping is a lot of work. When I'm working a piece for A&S and want
        >> to
        >> do it in the old way, power-ripping is the last modern convenience I let
        >> go.
        >> (Other than artificial light/heat in the workshop)
        >>
        >> Will
        >>
        >> _____
        >>
        >> From: medievalsawdust@ <mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com>
        > yahoogroups.com
        >> [mailto:medievalsawdust@ <mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com>
        > yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Bayer
        >> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 12:44 PM
        >> To: medievalsawdust@ <mailto:medievalsawdust%40yahoogroups.com>
        > yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
        >> tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
        >> practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
        >> the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
        >> to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
        >> anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
        >> tools/techniques, etc.
        >>
        >> Tony
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • julian wilson
        WILL WROTE ... COMMENT Will, I agree with you. For example, I have an 60-year-old American  4&1/2pt Disston Rip Saw, WITH THE MEDALLION USED BETWEEN 1942-53.
        Message 3 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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          WILL WROTE

          > Hand ripping is a lot of work. When I'm working a piece for A&S and want
          > to
          > do it in the old way, power-ripping is the last modern convenience I let
          > go.
          > (Other than artificial light/heat in the workshop)
          >
          > Will

          COMMENT
          Will, I agree with you.
          For example, I have an 60-year-old American  4&1/2pt Disston Rip Saw, WITH THE MEDALLION USED BETWEEN 1942-53.
          My Master gave it to me when I was assembling my very first toolkit as a young teenager.
          Before power tools became so relatively cheap, and I could afford my own, I used to use that rip-saw  frequently. It must be 30 years since I used it last. 
          Where I live it has gotten so expensive to have handsaw re-sharpened that it's actually cheaper to buy "disposable" saws.
          So the Disston is hanging on the wall of my workshop with the rest of my original, quality handsaws, - all of them well coated in rust-inhibitor, but hardly ever used because it's easier, cheaper. and quicker to use a portable power saw, or one of my tablesaws, or my chop saw, or my bandsaw...
          For my part, the only time I'd consider making anything completely with hand tools these days, - would be if a Client was PAYING me to do exactly that.
          I'd probably quote them a "telephone number" in the hope that they'd go somewhere else; and if they accepted that, - then it would be well worth my while to set my other commercial work aside for a time, and enjoy being VERY well rewarded for using my Craft's traditional Skill Set.
           
          Servus,
          Matthew
        • Bill McNutt
          One of the most valuable things my old boss taught me: When people want you to do things you dislike, keep raising your price. Eventually, either they will
          Message 4 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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            One of the most valuable things my old boss taught me:
             
            When people want you to do things you dislike, keep raising your price.  Eventually, either they will quit asking you to do it, OR, for that kind of money, you won't mind so much any more.
             
            Will


            From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of julian wilson
            Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 3:32 PM
            To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand


            I'd probably quote them a "telephone number" in the hope that they'd go somewhere else; and if they accepted that, - then it would be well worth my while to set my other commercial work aside for a time, and enjoy being VERY well rewarded for using my Craft's traditional Skill Set.
             
            Servus,

            .

          • Karl Christoffers
            Greetings the list,   I am working up to hand-sawing boards, but my saw sharpening skills are not yet up to the job. Bearing that in mind I have read two
            Message 5 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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              Greetings the list,
               
              I am working up to hand-sawing boards, but my saw sharpening skills are not yet up to the job. Bearing that in mind I have read two articles recently which bear on hand sawing. The first is "How to Saw" (striking originality) by Chris Schwartz in the Spring 2008 (#9) of "Woodworking Magazine" which seems on point and useful. The second is saw bench design in the June 2005 (#148) issue of "Popular Woodworking."
               
              And I took a look at the photo-essay on hand sawing (thanks Aiden). Why, with the option of having the boards be any thickness at all, did Justus choose 4/4 and make them look saw-mill made?

              -Malcolm

              --- On Tue, 6/3/08, Anthony Bayer <tonybayer73@...> wrote:

              From: Anthony Bayer <tonybayer73@...>
              Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand
              To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 9:43 AM






              Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
              tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
              practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
              the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
              to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
              anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
              tools/techniques, etc.

              Tony
            • Rebekah d'Avignon
              I d start with reading anything and everything by Roy Underhill. Regardless of the time period, the tools and techniques haven t changed THAT much. I don t
              Message 6 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                I'd start with reading anything and everything by Roy Underhill. Regardless of the time period, the tools and techniques haven't changed THAT much. I don't want to get drawn into another discussion on the differences of the metals used.
                 
                Roy frequently rips boards on his show. True, he is a Master Woodworker and it's not as easy as it looks. His books are usually in libraries (try inter-library loan) but they are worth it for the home library. He also has some nice projects.


                Anthony Bayer <tonybayer73@...> wrote:
                Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
                tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
                practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
                the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
                to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
                anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
                tools/techniques, etc.

                Tony




                RdA
                Tools alone do not a craftsman make.

              • Dave Ordway
                I have been using Japanese style pull saws for years now and have found no hand saw to be their equal. A good starter can be found in Lowes under the name
                Message 7 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                  I have been using "Japanese" style pull saws for years now and have found no hand saw to be their equal.  A good starter can be found in Lowes under the name of "Bear Saw".  Cost around twenty bucks.  They have several varieties.  Start with the combination model.  It's a good saw for rip and crosscuts.  It takes some practice getting used to the flexibility of the blade.  I have learned to go slow and resist the urge to rip the material at the speed that the saw will accommodate.  Keep your hands clear.  The blade will flex and likes to seek a finger or the back of the hand upon occasion.  Smooth and steady is the key.  Let the saw do the work and you will be amazed at how fast it accomplishes it.  If the blade vibrates, you're moving to fast.  My wife bought me a combination saw made in Japan a couple of years ago as a gift.  I still cringe every time I use it.  It should be on display with other replicas of cutting utensils but it's just too damn nice to let sit.
                   
                  Lagerstein
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 12:43 PM
                  Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand

                  Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
                  tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
                  practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
                  the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
                  to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
                  anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
                  tools/techniques, etc.

                  Tony

                • Chuck Phillips
                  Along with the collected works of St. Roy, there is another list you really should check out (If you re not already subscribed): Oldtools. This garrulous
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jun 3, 2008
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                    Along with the collected works of St. Roy, there is another list you really should check out (If you’re not already subscribed): Oldtools.  This garrulous gathering of gregarious Galoots got going lo these many years ago as an offshoot of rec.woodworking.  More than a few of the members have already gone down the quiet path (and most of the rest are well down the slippery slope), and the collective wisdom of the porch is impressive.  To subscribe, go to http://ruckus.law.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oldtools and submit a request.  Once you’re subscribed, it’s considered polite to post a bio (Brief or long-winded, your choice.)   Discussions sometimes drift a bit off topic, but flame wars are actively quashed, as we consider the list to be the moral equivalent of sitting on a friend’s porch having a friendly discussion.

                     

                    Charles Joiner

                    Mostly lurking on Oldtools since about day 10…

                     

                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rebekah d'Avignon
                    Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:01 PM
                    To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand

                     

                    I'd start with reading anything and everything by Roy Underhill. Regardless of the time period, the tools and techniques haven't changed THAT much. I don't want to get drawn into another discussion on the differences of the metals used.

                     

                    Roy frequently rips boards on his show. True, he is a Master Woodworker and it's not as easy as it looks. His books are usually in libraries (try inter-library loan) but they are worth it for the home library. He also has some nice projects.



                    Anthony Bayer <tonybayer73@...> wrote:

                    Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
                    tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
                    practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
                    the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
                    to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
                    anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
                    tools/techniques, etc.

                    Tony



                    RdA

                    Tools alone do not a craftsman make.

                     

                  • Avery Austringer
                    It can be done. About two months ago I was building something for the yard out of treated lumber. For part of it I was using fence rails that were a full
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                      It can be done. About two months ago I was building something for the
                      yard out of treated lumber. For part of it I was using fence rails
                      that were a full inch thick and 5-1/2 wide. For another part I needed
                      a full inch by 7-1/2 wide but no such beast was available.

                      Because I didn't want to get copper salts all over myself, my shop and,
                      most important of all, my cast iron tables my wife and I resawed 6 foot
                      of 2x8 by hand. It wasn't all that bad but I'm not exatcly eager to do
                      it again. In addition to having sharp tools, have a good way to hold
                      the lumber you're wanting to cut. For us it was a two person job
                      because we had no good way to hold the work. (In a couple days when I
                      post pictures of the bench I'm finally finishing up, this is a large
                      part of the motivation.)

                      Avery
                    • Jeff Johnson
                      If you look at the medieval illustrations that depict handsaws, they look like some may be pullsaws. See the Merode alterpiece, right panel , at Joseph s feet.
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                        If you look at the medieval illustrations that depict handsaws, they
                        look like some may be pullsaws. See the Merode alterpiece, right panel
                        , at Joseph's feet. It's hard to tell for sure, though, as the
                        orientation of the teeth isn't apparent. But look at the handle design
                        : a straight stick. Not very useful as a push-saw.

                        --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Ordway" <dabugler@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > I have been using "Japanese" style pull saws for years now and have
                        found no hand saw to be their equal. A good starter can be found in
                        Lowes under the name of "Bear Saw". Cost around twenty bucks. They
                        have several varieties. Start with the combination model. It's a
                        good saw for rip and crosscuts. It takes some practice getting used
                        to the flexibility of the blade. I have learned to go slow and resist
                        the urge to rip the material at the speed that the saw will
                        accommodate. Keep your hands clear. The blade will flex and likes to
                        seek a finger or the back of the hand upon occasion. Smooth and
                        steady is the key. Let the saw do the work and you will be amazed at
                        how fast it accomplishes it. If the blade vibrates, you're moving to
                        fast. My wife bought me a combination saw made in Japan a couple of
                        years ago as a gift. I still cringe every time I use it. It should
                        be on display with other replicas of cutting utensils but it's just
                        too damn nice to let sit.
                        >
                        > Lagerstein
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: Anthony Bayer
                        > To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 12:43 PM
                        > Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Ripping board by hand
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
                        > tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
                        > practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
                        > the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
                        > to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
                        > anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
                        > tools/techniques, etc.
                        >
                        > Tony
                        >
                      • Ralph Lindberg
                        ... Now that brings back memories... About 1 million years ago (internet time) I ran the straw-poll that decided that rec.woodworking shouldn t split. At the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                          --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck Phillips" <chuck@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Along with the collected works of St. Roy, there is another list you
                          > really should check out (If you're not already subscribed): Oldtools.
                          > This garrulous gathering of gregarious Galoots got going lo these many
                          > years ago as an offshoot of rec.woodworking.

                          Now that brings back memories... About 1 million years ago (internet
                          time) I ran the straw-poll that decided that rec.woodworking shouldn't
                          split.

                          At the start of the discussion there were hundreds of posts to the
                          newsgroup, every day. So many that it was easy to lose entire
                          discussions. At the time there was only really -one- on-line "forum"
                          for woodworking, that was "the rec". Many thought something had to
                          change, others didn't.

                          The poll failed and rec.woodworking didn't split.

                          Of course the Neanderthals and Turners just went their own ways, with
                          the old-tool e-mail list and the new newsgroup rec.crafts.woodturning.

                          Like I said, brings back memories

                          TTFN
                          Ralg
                          AnTir
                        • Syr Justus de Tyre
                          If you look at the medieval illustrations that depict handsaws, they look like some may be pullsaws. See the Merode alterpiece, right panel , at Joseph s
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                            "If you look at the medieval illustrations that depict handsaws, they
                            look like some may be pullsaws. See the Merode alterpiece, right panel
                            , at Joseph's feet. It's hard to tell for sure, though, as the
                            orientation of the teeth isn't apparent. But look at the handle design
                            : a straight stick. Not very useful as a push-saw."

                            There are two saws of that description in the Mastermyr chest, it's
                            shaped more like a knife than what we think of as a saw with a "D"
                            handle. Both of them are push saws, as in the teeth face forward. One
                            is definitely filed for crosscutting, and the other may be filed for
                            ripping. they are fairly thick and would stand up to being pushed.
                            Think of them as joinery saws though, fairly light work, not for
                            resawing thick boards.

                            http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3079/2552088897_7e1b5f8448_o.jpg

                            http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2334/2552088981_4f2812324f_b.jpg

                            -Justus
                          • Syr Justus de Tyre
                            And I took a look at the photo-essay on hand sawing (thanks Aiden). Why, with the option of having the boards be any thickness at all, did Justus choose 4/4
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                              "And I took a look at the photo-essay on hand sawing (thanks Aiden).
                              Why, with the option of having the boards be any thickness at all, did
                              Justus choose 4/4 and make them look saw-mill made?

                              -Malcolm"

                              Because 4/4 is what I needed. : )

                              I actually cut them a little thicker, the finished dimension is 4/4.
                              those boards are now part of a strong box that I made for a freind.
                              I'll see if I can dig up pictures.
                              Some of that live oak has been turned into 2x2 stock for a chest I'm
                              planning, some has been used for various small tools, (made a
                              beautiful marking gauge out of a piece of throwaway scrap.) And much
                              of it is still in it's original 11x11 state, though I did cut some of
                              the beams when I moved them because they were too long to fit in the
                              truck. (that was some hard thinking there as to future projects)

                              -Justus
                            • Syr Justus de Tyre
                              ... Thank you Aiden for uploading the tutorial I made about ripping boards by hand. The site that they used to be hosted on is no more so I have re-uploaded
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                                --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony Bayer"
                                <tonybayer73@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi all. I've decided to start the process of moving away from power
                                > tools and working more with only hand tools. Currently, I'm
                                > practicing flattening and squaring boards using hand planes. I think
                                > the next step(which I find kind of scary) is to start using hand saws
                                > to rip and crosscut boards to size. I was interested in seeing if
                                > anyone does this and is willing to offer up some advice on
                                > tools/techniques, etc.
                                >
                                > Tony


                                Thank you Aiden for uploading the tutorial I made about ripping boards
                                by hand. The site that they used to be hosted on is no more so I have
                                re-uploaded them to my new site. You can get much larger pictures
                                there than are available in the PDF. I've also updated the text a bit.

                                http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/sets/72157605421219053/

                                In addition to the resawing essay I made one about working from the
                                tree without using saws which is the best way to go if it is available
                                to you.

                                http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/sets/72157605421849983/

                                I will have the text finished for the hand saw essay soon.

                                -Justus
                              • Brian Tychonski
                                I ve got a chimenea for my cut offs. When the weather permits (no air quality advisories and outdoor temps below 80 degrees, I fire it up and chuck them in.
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jun 4, 2008
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                                  I've got a chimenea for my cut offs. When the weather permits (no air quality advisories and outdoor temps below 80 degrees, I fire it up and chuck them in. I've been known to melt beer bottles and soda cans in it. I think it may be getting too hot, it's starting to have heat cracks up and down it.
                                   
                                  Brian the Pyro Broadaxe
                                • Bill McNutt
                                  Yeah. I don t do ceramics or glass myself, but I m surrounded by them. Rule of thumb: if you can melt glass bottles, your clay chimenea is getting too hot.
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jun 5, 2008
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                                    Yeah.  I don't do ceramics or glass myself, but I'm surrounded by them.
                                     
                                    Rule of thumb:  if you can melt glass bottles, your clay chimenea is getting too hot.
                                     
                                    Will


                                    From: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Tychonski
                                    Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:10 AM
                                    To: medievalsawdust
                                    Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Ripping board by hand

                                    I've got a chimenea for my cut offs. When the weather permits (no air quality advisories and outdoor temps below 80 degrees, I fire it up and chuck them in. I've been known to melt beer bottles and soda cans in it. I think it may be getting too hot, it's starting to have heat cracks up and down it.
                                     
                                    Brian the Pyro Broadaxe

                                  • Karl Christoffers
                                    ... From: Syr Justus de Tyre <atlantianbard@yahoo.com> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Ripping board by hand To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com Date:
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jun 5, 2008
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                                      --- On Wed, 6/4/08, Syr Justus de Tyre <atlantianbard@...> wrote:
                                      From: Syr Justus de Tyre <atlantianbard@...>
                                      Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Ripping board by hand
                                      To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2008, 8:19 PM

                                      "And I took a look at the photo-essay on hand sawing (thanks Aiden).
                                      Why, with the option of having the boards be any thickness at all, did
                                      Justus choose 4/4 and make them look saw-mill made?

                                      -Malcolm"

                                      Because 4/4 is what I needed. : )

                                      I *so* deserved that.

                                      -Malcolm

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