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Re: [medieval-leather] rabbit glue?

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  • Anna Troy
    That s Rabbit HIDE glue :-) What I know about it is that it was a common ingridient when making gesso(gilding base) for manuscript illuminations. A´nna T ...
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 1, 2005
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      That's Rabbit HIDE glue :-) What I know about it is
      that it was a common ingridient when making
      gesso(gilding base) for manuscript illuminations.

      A�nna T

      --- fitchbone <fitchbone@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > I was just talking to a friend about a leather
      > project he wants to do, and he mentioned
      > that some armorer friends of ours told him that
      > rabbit glue (???) was a common
      > leather-hardening agent. I'm not sure I've heard
      > about this before now, but my
      > research has been lagging lately. Anyone have any
      > information about this? I'm very
      > curious.
      >
      > Thanks!
      > g
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • T Goat
      Thanks, Anna, that s interesting! But back to my original query, reworded: is anyone here aware of the use of rabbit hide glue as a leather-hardening agent?
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 4, 2005
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        Thanks, Anna, that's interesting!

        But back to my original query, reworded: is anyone
        here aware of the use of rabbit hide glue as a
        leather-hardening agent? I'm a shoemaker; stiffer
        leather is not to my advantage very often, so I'm
        rather out of my depth.

        g


        --- Anna Troy <owly3@...> wrote:

        >
        > That's Rabbit HIDE glue :-) What I know about it is
        > that it was a common ingridient when making
        > gesso(gilding base) for manuscript illuminations.
        >
        > A�nna T
        >
        > --- fitchbone <fitchbone@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > I was just talking to a friend about a leather
        > > project he wants to do, and he mentioned
        > > that some armorer friends of ours told him that
        > > rabbit glue (???) was a common
        > > leather-hardening agent. I'm not sure I've heard
        > > about this before now, but my
        > > research has been lagging lately. Anyone have any
        > > information about this? I'm very
        > > curious.
        > >
        > > Thanks!
        > > g
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > > --------------------~-->
        > > Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion
        > > Toolbar.
        > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
        > >
        >
        http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/sK9olB/TM
        > >
        >
        --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > > medieval-leather-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > =====
        > "So many books, so little time"
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        > medieval-leather-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



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      • Marc Carlson
        ... I know I ve heard of doping leather with things like resin to harden them, but I ve never heard of using a glue like that to do it. Now, using for
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 4, 2005
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          --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, T Goat <fitchbone@y...> wrote:
          > But back to my original query, reworded: is anyone
          > here aware of the use of rabbit hide glue as a
          > leather-hardening agent? I'm a shoemaker; stiffer
          > leather is not to my advantage very often, so I'm
          > rather out of my depth.

          I know I've heard of doping leather with things like resin to harden
          them, but I've never heard of using a glue like that to do it. Now,
          using for hardening fabric, sure, so it might work if you wanted to
          try it. You may want to heat the leather to make it easier to absorb
          the liquid, and make your glue really runny.

          Let us know how it works, please.

          Marc
        • T Goat
          Thanks for the input gentlemen, very astute observations. I was only asking out of curiosity, though: I don t have any projects in the works that require
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 4, 2005
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            Thanks for the input gentlemen, very astute
            observations. I was only asking out of curiosity,
            though: I don't have any projects in the works that
            require stiffening, and frankly, the plain ol'
            water-based cuir-bolis (sic) method seems more
            parsimonious, and less likely to go soft in the rain.
            Occam's razor and all that. I'll try to remember to
            ask these armorers where they got the idea, and get
            back to you with that.

            For the record, I impregnated some leather with wax
            (in an ill-informed attempt at cuir-bolis in the dark
            ages before the internet). Among the pieces in
            question were a pair of vambraces-- I used approx. 10
            oz veg tanned leather, and today they might as well be
            Kevlar. Mighty impressive, and surprisingly
            mold-resistant for leather in Kansas.

            g


            --- Marc Carlson <marccarlson20@...> wrote:

            >
            > --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, T Goat
            > <fitchbone@y...> wrote:
            > > But back to my original query, reworded: is
            > anyone
            > > here aware of the use of rabbit hide glue as a
            > > leather-hardening agent? I'm a shoemaker; stiffer
            > > leather is not to my advantage very often, so I'm
            > > rather out of my depth.
            >
            > I know I've heard of doping leather with things like
            > resin to harden
            > them, but I've never heard of using a glue like that
            > to do it. Now,
            > using for hardening fabric, sure, so it might work
            > if you wanted to
            > try it. You may want to heat the leather to make it
            > easier to absorb
            > the liquid, and make your glue really runny.
            >
            > Let us know how it works, please.
            >
            > Marc
            >
            >
            >
            >




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          • Ron Charlotte
            ... The only reference I recall is in Cennini s _The Craftsman s Handbook_ (ISBN0-486-20054-X) the chapter on making crests he says to take the size used for
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 4, 2005
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              At 06:39 AM 1/4/2005, T Goatwrote:
              >Thanks, Anna, that's interesting!
              >
              >But back to my original query, reworded: is anyone
              >here aware of the use of rabbit hide glue as a
              >leather-hardening agent? I'm a shoemaker; stiffer
              >leather is not to my advantage very often, so I'm
              >rather out of my depth.
              >
              >g
              >
              >
              >--- Anna Troy <owly3@...> wrote:
              >
              > > That's Rabbit HIDE glue What I know about it is
              > > that it was a common ingridient when making
              > > gesso(gilding base) for manuscript illuminations

              The only reference I recall is in Cennini's _The Craftsman's Handbook_
              (ISBN0-486-20054-X) the chapter on making crests he says to take the size
              used for making gesso, and size the leather two or three times before
              applying gesso to the molded leather.


              Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
              ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
            • Neil Carr
              ... Yes, but at that point the leather s already been dried while packed with sand, IIRC, so the hardening s already been done. I think in that case the size
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 5, 2005
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                Ron Charlotte wrote:

                > The only reference I recall is in Cennini's _The Craftsman's Handbook_
                > (ISBN0-486-20054-X) the chapter on making crests he says to take the size
                > used for making gesso, and size the leather two or three times before
                > applying gesso to the molded leather.
                >
                Yes, but at that point the leather's already been dried while packed
                with sand, IIRC, so the hardening's already been done. I think in that
                case the size is just for the gesso.

                --
                Neil Carr

                (WebFoundry CC : CK99/27408/23)
                Members:
                Neil Carr
                Karen Shippey
              • Ron Charlotte
                ... The leather in that case has been _molded_ , but not truly hardened (there is some hardening effect from each wet to dry transition, but it can be wetted
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 5, 2005
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                  At 12:03 PM 1/5/2005, Neil Carr wrote:
                  > > The only reference I recall is in Cennini's _The Craftsman's Handbook_
                  > > (ISBN0-486-20054-X) the chapter on making crests he says to take the size
                  > > used for making gesso, and size the leather two or three times before
                  > > applying gesso to the molded leather.
                  > >
                  >Yes, but at that point the leather's already been dried while packed
                  >with sand, IIRC, so the hardening's already been done. I think in that
                  >case the size is just for the gesso.

                  The leather in that case has been _molded_ , but not truly hardened (there
                  is some hardening effect from each wet to dry transition, but it can be
                  wetted and altered again until the leather has been made water
                  resistant). I think of the application of the size as much as a sealer as
                  it is a stiffener. It _would_ serve to firm up the "body" of the leather a
                  bit. Think of the textural difference between acrylic, oil, lacquer and
                  wax based sealers.


                  Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                  ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
                • sarfraz ahmad
                  Dear Ron, How are you. I want to ask you a personal question.Are you related to leather buiseness?I am also related to leather business and I am a Qualified
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 6, 2005
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                    Dear Ron,
                    How are you.
                    I want to ask you a personal question.Are you
                    related to leather buiseness?I am also related to leather business and I am
                    a Qualified leather technologist.We can exchange information regarding
                    leather and leather business.

                    >From: Ron Charlotte <ronch2@...>
                    >Reply-To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] rabbit glue?
                    >Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2005 22:16:33 -0500
                    >
                    >At 12:03 PM 1/5/2005, Neil Carr wrote:
                    > > > The only reference I recall is in Cennini's _The Craftsman's Handbook_
                    > > > (ISBN0-486-20054-X) the chapter on making crests he says to take the
                    >size
                    > > > used for making gesso, and size the leather two or three times before
                    > > > applying gesso to the molded leather.
                    > > >
                    > >Yes, but at that point the leather's already been dried while packed
                    > >with sand, IIRC, so the hardening's already been done. I think in that
                    > >case the size is just for the gesso.
                    >
                    >The leather in that case has been _molded_ , but not truly hardened (there
                    >is some hardening effect from each wet to dry transition, but it can be
                    >wetted and altered again until the leather has been made water
                    >resistant). I think of the application of the size as much as a sealer as
                    >it is a stiffener. It _would_ serve to firm up the "body" of the leather a
                    >bit. Think of the textural difference between acrylic, oil, lacquer and
                    >wax based sealers.
                    >
                    >
                    > Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                    > ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
                    >

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                  • Ron Charlotte
                    ... Nope, I m just an amateur with a lot of years devoted to the craft. The history of technology is my personal pet project. I still welcome the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 6, 2005
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                      At 03:34 AM 1/6/2005, you wrote:
                      >Dear Ron,
                      > How are you.
                      > I want to ask you a personal question.Are you
                      >related to leather buiseness?I am also related to leather business and I am
                      >a Qualified leather technologist.We can exchange information regarding
                      >leather and leather business.

                      Nope, I'm just an amateur with a lot of years devoted to the craft. The
                      history of technology is my personal pet project. I still welcome the
                      correspondence; every nugget of information is of value to me.


                      Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                      ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
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