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long sax sheath

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  • Alasdair Muckart
    Greetings, While we re on the topic of sax sheaths, I have a friend with a long ( 12 blade) sax that he wants a sheath for and I m not entirely sure where to
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 31, 2003
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      Greetings,

      While we're on the topic of sax sheaths, I have a friend with a long
      (>12" blade) sax that he wants a sheath for and I'm not entirely sure
      where to start.

      I considered building a regular folded sheath with riveted copper to
      provide rigidity but with the shape of the blade the fold would be on
      the edge of the blade and with the size and sharpness of this thing I'm
      concerned that it would just cut it's way out of the sheath when drawn.

      Can anyone give me pointers to sources for alternative patterns for this
      type of blade? Were long sax like this just carried like swords?

      --
      Al
    • Charles Anderson
      How sharp is the blade? Is it meant for combat or just as an ornament? Ah well... any way a metal collar will stop the blade ripping the leather to shreds.
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 2003
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        How sharp is the blade? Is it meant for combat or just as an ornament?
        Ah well... any way a metal collar will stop the blade ripping the
        leather to shreds. Personally I wouldn't do this, as I haven't found a
        need for it with combat ready blades. Regards Charles

        Alasdair Muckart wrote:

        >Greetings,
        >
        >While we're on the topic of sax sheaths, I have a friend with a long
        >(>12" blade) sax that he wants a sheath for and I'm not entirely sure
        >where to start.
        >
        >I considered building a regular folded sheath with riveted copper to
        >provide rigidity but with the shape of the blade the fold would be on
        >the edge of the blade and with the size and sharpness of this thing I'm
        >concerned that it would just cut it's way out of the sheath when drawn.
        >
        >Can anyone give me pointers to sources for alternative patterns for this
        >type of blade? Were long sax like this just carried like swords?
        >
        >
        >
      • Alasdair Muckart
        ... I couldn t quite shave with it but it s not that far off. ... It s a possibility, but I wouldn t want to subject the blade to being dragged across a metal
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 2003
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          On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 12:38, Charles Anderson wrote:
          > How sharp is the blade? Is it meant for combat or just as an ornament?

          I couldn't quite shave with it but it's not that far off.

          > Ah well... any way a metal collar will stop the blade ripping the
          > leather to shreds. Personally I wouldn't do this, as I haven't found a
          > need for it with combat ready blades. Regards Charles

          It's a possibility, but I wouldn't want to subject the blade to being
          dragged across a metal collar every time it went in or out of the
          sheath.

          --
          Al.
        • Leather Work
          Got two possible cures for you to NOT drag a sharp edge out of a sheath across a rivet. 1. Use a strong gusset on that edge.. that way you wont cut the
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 1, 2003
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            Got two possible cures for you to NOT drag a sharp edge out of a sheath across a rivet. 
             
            1.  Use a strong gusset on that edge.. that way you wont cut the threads.
             
            2.  Put in a hard nylon 'rider'... replaceable with a chicago screw.  Or just rivet the nylon piece between the layers.
             
            Most of my sheaths either for dagger or single edge I put in gussets where the edge will face the threads.  Never had one cut out yet by a customer.
             
            Charles
            scaka Lazarus
            www.leatherwork.biz
             
             
             


            Alasdair Muckart <silver@...> wrote:
            On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 12:38, Charles Anderson wrote:
            > How sharp is the blade?  Is it meant for combat or just as an ornament?

            I couldn't quite shave with it but it's not that far off.
             
            > Ah well... any way a metal collar will stop the blade ripping the
            > leather to shreds.  Personally I wouldn't do this, as I haven't found a
            > need for it with combat ready blades.   Regards Charles

            It's a possibility, but I wouldn't want to subject the blade to being
            dragged across a metal collar every time it went in or out of the
            sheath.

            --
            Al.



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          • chad johnson
            How about using a wooden shell for your sheath? It would be period and not harm the blade as a metal collar would.
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 1, 2003
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              How about using a wooden shell for your sheath? It would be period and not
              harm the blade as a metal collar would.

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            • legviiii
              Aren t all the extant originals riveted along the edge? I have made a couple for sharp saexes and have not had a brass rivet dull the blade yet. Wayne ...
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 2, 2003
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                Aren't all the extant originals riveted along the edge? I have made a
                couple for sharp saexes and have not had a brass rivet dull the blade
                yet.

                Wayne

                --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, Leather Work
                <lthrwrk2000@y...> wrote:
                > Got two possible cures for you to NOT drag a sharp edge out of a
                sheath across a rivet.
                >
                > 1. Use a strong gusset on that edge.. that way you wont cut the
                threads.
                >
                > 2. Put in a hard nylon 'rider'... replaceable with a chicago
                screw. Or just rivet the nylon piece between the layers.
                >
                > Most of my sheaths either for dagger or single edge I put in
                gussets where the edge will face the threads. Never had one cut out
                yet by a customer.
                >
                > Charles
                > scaka Lazarus
                > www.leatherwork.biz
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Alasdair Muckart <silver@w...> wrote:
                > On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 12:38, Charles Anderson wrote:
                > > How sharp is the blade? Is it meant for combat or just as an
                ornament?
                >
                > I couldn't quite shave with it but it's not that far off.
                >
                > > Ah well... any way a metal collar will stop the blade ripping the
                > > leather to shreds. Personally I wouldn't do this, as I haven't
                found a
                > > need for it with combat ready blades. Regards Charles
                >
                > It's a possibility, but I wouldn't want to subject the blade to
                being
                > dragged across a metal collar every time it went in or out of the
                > sheath.
                >
                > --
                > Al.
                >
                >
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              • chad johnson
                a simple suggestion that might let you keep the look and not dull the blade. Use a strip of latigo or heavy leather sandwiched at the edge were you are
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 3, 2003
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                  a simple suggestion that might let you keep the look and not dull the blade.
                  Use a strip of latigo or heavy leather sandwiched at the edge were you are
                  riveting the copper. This will give you a leather edge the blade will run on
                  and not take much time or take away from the design.
                  ~Kestrel

                  >Aren't all the extant originals riveted along the edge? I have made a
                  >couple for sharp saexes and have not had a brass rivet dull the blade
                  >yet.

                  > > 1. Use a strong gusset on that edge.. that way you wont cut the
                  >threads.
                  > >
                  > > 2. Put in a hard nylon 'rider'... replaceable with a chicago
                  >screw. Or just rivet the nylon piece between the layers.
                  > >
                  > > Most of my sheaths either for dagger or single edge I put in
                  >gussets where the edge will face the threads. Never had one cut out
                  >yet by a customer.
                  > >
                  > > Charles
                  > > scaka Lazarus
                  > > www.leatherwork.biz
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Alasdair Muckart <silver@w...> wrote:
                  > > On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 12:38, Charles Anderson wrote:
                  > > > How sharp is the blade? Is it meant for combat or just as an
                  >ornament?
                  > >
                  > > I couldn't quite shave with it but it's not that far off.
                  > >
                  > > > Ah well... any way a metal collar will stop the blade ripping the
                  > > > leather to shreds. Personally I wouldn't do this, as I haven't
                  >found a
                  > > > need for it with combat ready blades. Regards Charles
                  > >
                  > > It's a possibility, but I wouldn't want to subject the blade to
                  >being
                  > > dragged across a metal collar every time it went in or out of the
                  > > sheath.
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Al.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                  > >
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                  >Service.
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                  >

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                • Alasdair Muckart
                  ... This is what I m trying to figure out :) I was under the impression that they were folded over the edge of the blade and rivited down the back of the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 3, 2003
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                    On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 14:13, legviiii wrote:

                    > Aren't all the extant originals riveted along the edge? I have made a
                    > couple for sharp saexes and have not had a brass rivet dull the blade
                    > yet.

                    This is what I'm trying to figure out :) I was under the impression that
                    they were folded over the edge of the blade and rivited down the back of
                    the blade. The blade shape I'm dealing with has the straight angled drop
                    point common to sax with a ruler-straight edge. It's also over a foot
                    long.
                    ________
                    ________\
                    edge

                    If I rivet the copper over the edge (as seems sensible with this blade)
                    how do I get the fold over the back of the blade to follow the drop to
                    the point without lots of ugly creases and ripples?

                    Thanks.
                    --
                    Al
                    "Send lawyers, guns, and money
                    Dad get me out of this" -- Warren Zevon _Lawyers guns and money_
                  • Alasdair Muckart
                    ... I contemplated this, but unfortunately I don t have the facilities or the tools to construct a decent wooden-cored sheath. -- Al Send lawyers, guns, and
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 3, 2003
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                      On Sun, 2003-11-02 at 18:36, chad johnson wrote:
                      > How about using a wooden shell for your sheath? It would be period and not
                      > harm the blade as a metal collar would.

                      I contemplated this, but unfortunately I don't have the facilities or
                      the tools to construct a decent wooden-cored sheath.

                      --
                      Al
                      "Send lawyers, guns, and money
                      Dad get me out of this" -- Warren Zevon _Lawyers guns and money_
                    • Scott Szakonyi
                      I should think you would dart it, much as you do when putting an edge binding on leather or fabric. Best, Scott Alasdair Muckart
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 3, 2003
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                        I should think you would dart it, much as you do when putting an edge binding on leather or fabric.
                         
                        Best,
                         
                        Scott

                        Alasdair Muckart <silver@...> wrote:
                        On Mon, 2003-11-03 at 14:13, legviiii wrote:

                        > Aren't all the extant originals riveted along the edge? I have made a
                        > couple for sharp saexes and have not had a brass rivet dull the blade
                        > yet.

                        This is what I'm trying to figure out :) I was under the impression that
                        they were folded over the edge of the blade and rivited down the back of
                        the blade. The blade shape I'm dealing with has the straight angled drop
                        point common to sax with a ruler-straight edge. It's also over a foot
                        long.
                        ________
                        ________\
                        edge

                        If I rivet the copper over the edge (as seems sensible with this blade)
                        how do I get the fold over the back of the blade to follow the drop to
                        the point without lots of ugly creases and ripples?

                        Thanks.
                        --
                        Al
                        "Send lawyers, guns, and money
                        Dad get me out of this" -- Warren Zevon _Lawyers guns and money_




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                      • lalalalalalalaau
                        ... that ... back of ... I m aware of some leather sheaths that appear to have had a strip of bronze/brass folded over the edge only (not the back), and then
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 3, 2003
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                          >
                          > This is what I'm trying to figure out :) I was under the impression
                          that
                          > they were folded over the edge of the blade and rivited down the
                          back of
                          > the blade.

                          I'm aware of some leather sheaths that appear to have had a strip of
                          bronze/brass folded over the edge only (not the back), and then
                          rivetted along the edge - eg. the tooled leather sheath found at York
                          (I believe this was found without the metal strip, but with holes and
                          markings suggesting rivets and a strip. There are more sources on
                          this type of thing - someone on this list must have them handy!).
                          This should not be a problem with a straight edge. The leather is
                          simply folded over the back of the blade. This would cause
                          difficulties with the angle towards the tip, but careful shaping,
                          soaking and stretching over the blade can sometimes overcome this -
                          otherwise, I'd probably take out a dart and edge-edge stitch it to
                          conceal the stitching (this is starting to enter the realms of
                          speculation rather than reconstruction ...).

                          The difficulty I found with my sheath is that the brass I used was
                          too thin and soft - the sheath bends too easily if I sit the wrong
                          way, and starts to develop wrinkles as a result of bending and being
                          bent back. This can be overcome by riveting multiple smaller strips
                          in a line instead of one long strip - the scabbard is therefore
                          flexible. I believe there is some evidence of this to the east, but
                          again, I concede that I do not have sufficient resources to hand.

                          ... And one other thing ... don't drill the holes in the brass strip
                          while the blade is in the sheath ...

                          Cheers
                          Michael B
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