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Re: Book Covers

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  • MH A-TeamFan
    I was wondering if anyone know if a source for book cover patterns. I have a bunch of flemish style illuminations that I would like to bind in a book. Any
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 1, 2001
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      I was wondering if anyone know if a source for book
      cover patterns. I have a bunch of flemish style
      illuminations that I would like to bind in a book.

      Any ideas?


      --- rmhowe <mmagnusm@...> wrote:
      > Ken Nye wrote:
      > > Women who learn to walk in high heels make the
      > transition
      > > seamlessly but we guys take a bit longer to figure
      > it out, usually
      > > while nursing sore and bruised heels.
      >
      > Well, I have to admit I've never tried this....but
      > whatever floats
      > your boat. ;) Sorry, couldn't resist the straight
      > line.
      >
      > I seriously believe spiked high heels should be a
      > required part of SCA
      > Ducal Regalia myself. Anything that helps spot one
      > from a distance...
      >
      > I'm not partial to Venetian chopines either. Must be
      > genetic.
      > I did get to see Master Henry Best's apprentice on
      > stilts
      > at Pennsic though in a formal dance. One of those
      > odd things
      > I photographed this year.
      >
      > > I will admit to the dubious advantages of a
      > Catholic education where
      > > one of the first things you learn is to walk
      > quietly on the fore
      > > part of the foot. Best not to attract attention
      > to yourself in
      > > those long, echoing corridors. - Ken
      >
      > We had this latin teacher who used to have a
      > peculiar walk - chest
      > and backend out with high heels - could hear her
      > coming a hundred
      > yards down the hall - used to joke that if she ever
      > turned quickly
      > she'd knock the blackboards off the walls.
      > Unmistakably unique walk.
      >
      > I learned something similar working in a prison.
      > (Lots of officers liked wearing crepe soles.)
      >
      > (I did spend some years in a high episcopal boarding
      > school too
      > though which was every bit as dangerous. My first
      > two years of
      > latin I had Captain Reid, who was one of Patton's
      > officers. He
      > liked beating conjugations and declensions into us
      > literally.)
      >
      > Put your heel down first and rotate along the
      > outside of the foot
      > to the front with each step. Much quieter than
      > normal walking.
      > Especially when you are trying to listen for or
      > locate trouble.
      > I used to work in maximum security cell blocks and
      > mental wards.
      > Carrying a large flashlight upside down by the head
      > overhand proved
      > quite useful in parrying, especially when aimed back
      > of the wrist.
      >
      > What always worried me was coming past a cell wall
      > and meeting a
      > shattered broomstick spear. I also believed in
      > wearing a
      > clip-on tie. Had it snatched about five times
      > through the bars. I've
      > been known to try pulling the other guy through a 4"
      > gap myself
      > in return. Traction can be -very- important. Trust
      > me on this. ;)
      >
      > Steel toed shoes had certain advantages as well.
      > Starting a fight by
      > stomping down on someone's instep was something an
      > inmate warned me
      > about. I was taking metalshop about this time and
      > had the new steel
      > toes on. When a blowhorn metal stake fell untouched
      > point down out
      > of a rack on the steel toe those shoes immediately
      > paid for themselves.
      > I figure it would probably have severed my second
      > toe. I'm glad I
      > took the inmate serioX-Mozilla-Status: 0009m - Wed
      > Oct 31 13:23:00 2001
      > X-Mozilla-Status: 0801
      > X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
      > FCC: /C|/Program
      > Files/Netscape/Users/magnusm/mail/Sent
      > Message-ID: <3BE04184.96E6D62A@...>
      > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:23:00 -0500
      > From: rmhowe <MMagnusM@...>
      > X-Mozilla-Draft-Info: internal/draft; vcard=0;
      > receipt=0; uuencode=0; html=0; linewidth=0
      > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD EBM-Compaq
      > (Win95; I)
      > X-Accept-Language: en
      > MIME-Version: 1.0
      > To: list-regia-us@...
      > Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Metal inlay
      > References:
      > <001601c14cde$d93f9cc0$b2f65ba5@...>
      > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
      > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
      >
      > Jim Graham wrote:
      > >
      > > Does anyone have any experience in inlaying brass
      > or copper wire in steel? I've got a seax blade
      > almost finished (started off forging the bugger,
      > figured it's better to try walking before running
      > and switched to stock-removal), and wanted to
      > possibly give a shot doing some simple, linear inlay
      > on it. I'm guessing I can start the grooves for the
      > inlay with a chisel (or Dremel, if need be), but do
      > I need to "dovetail" the grooves to hold the wire
      > for inlay securely? I've looked around for hand
      > gravers, and have become convinced that specialty
      > wire-inlay "dovetailers" don't exist. I've thought
      > about etching the grooves, so that the acid
      > undercuts a bit, but there has got to be an easier
      > solution. Any suggestions?
      > >
      > > Thanks!
      > > Jim
      >
      > My reading suggests that the 'Inlay' was
      > accomplished two ways.
      >
      > 1. It was actually forged -through- the whole
      > thickness.
      > This has showed up in some radiographs I've seen
      > having to do
      > with Anglo-Saxon Seaxes. Where? In some damned
      > book in some
      > damned pile around here. Surprised the hell out
      > of me.
      > Possibly in one of the five Royal Armouries
      > Yearbooks I recently
      > read. Then again I've been reading a dozen new
      > Osprey and other
      > military recreationist books including
      > Anglo-Saxon Weapons and
      > Warfare (but I'm pretty sure it was not in there)
      > which needs
      > much better references - "Drawn after Evison"
      > with no further
      > reference to her work does -not- cut it when you
      > want details
      > on a seax.
      >
      > 2. It was chiseled in and hammered in with wire.
      > The Almgren "Ugly" Viking book depicts the method
      > as being
      > chiseled in from -either side of the groove- to
      > make a ^ in the
      > metal. Obviously one uses the first line for the
      > second. One
      > then inlays the wire and hammers it back down,
      > effectively
      > filling the swallows tail.
      > Filing/honing/grinding the whole mess smooth
      > afterwards finishes
      > it. The arabs and indians seem to be the current
      > practioners of
      > this technique. See Oppi Untract's books on
      > metalsmithing.
      >
      > While I have experience with hand engraving I'm not
      > terribly
      > practiced at hammer engraving. I haven't had those
      > particular
      > chisels long enough yet to have tried the technique.
      > However,
      > wire inlay over wide areas, even almost covering
      > them is quite
      > common in Germanic and Scandinavian metalwork back
      > to the late
      > iron age. Almgren is the primary one who depicts
      > this. Having
      > dozens of the books on Scandinavian/Gemanic
      > metalwork it is
      > likely the most easily accessible and clearest.
      >
      > If you are going to use a dremel, use mineral oil,
      > water or something
      > to cool the bit. (Motor Oil inhalation is not
      > particularly healthful
      > for the lungs. Can coat them.)
      >
      > If you are going to etch steel I suppose you'll have
      > to use
      > nitric acid. Pour the acid into the water, not the
      > reverse.
      >
      === message truncated ===


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    • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
      ... What do you mean by book cover patterns? Do you information on binding the book itself or how to decorate the front cover? Sharon/ Morwenna who could help
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 3, 2001
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        At 09:08 AM 11/01/2001 -0800, you wrote:
        >I was wondering if anyone know if a source for book
        >cover patterns. I have a bunch of flemish style
        >illuminations that I would like to bind in a book.
        >
        >Any ideas?
        >
        What do you mean by book cover patterns?

        Do you information on binding the book itself or how to decorate the front
        cover?

        Sharon/ Morwenna
        who could help with both




        I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
      • MH A-TeamFan
        ... I was wanting information on what a period book cover looked like. All of the example I have seen have been embellished with metal and jewels. I can t
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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          --- Sharon Smith Hurlburt <medhbh@...> wrote:
          > What do you mean by book cover patterns?
          >
          > Do you information on binding the book itself or how
          > to decorate the front
          > cover?

          I was wanting information on what a period book cover
          looked like. All of the example I have seen have been
          embellished with metal and jewels. I can't imagine
          that they did every book cover that way. Books were
          luxury items just from the time it took to create
          them.

          I have some flemish style stuff so a flemish book
          cover would probably be a good idea.

          Thanks!


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        • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
          ... As a matter of fact, they had many, many different ways to decorate book bindings- depending on where you were & what the time period was. Indeed, not all
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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            At 06:36 AM 11/06/2001 -0800, you wrote:
            >
            >--- Sharon Smith Hurlburt <medhbh@...> wrote:
            >> What do you mean by book cover patterns?
            >>
            >> Do you information on binding the book itself or how
            >> to decorate the front
            >> cover?
            >
            >I was wanting information on what a period book cover
            >looked like. All of the example I have seen have been
            >embellished with metal and jewels. I can't imagine
            >that they did every book cover that way. Books were
            >luxury items just from the time it took to create
            >them.
            >
            >I have some flemish style stuff so a flemish book
            >cover would probably be a good idea.
            >

            As a matter of fact, they had many, many different ways to decorate book
            bindings- depending on where you were & what the time period was. Indeed,
            not all of them involved leather. I've seen some pictures of some gorgeous
            embroidered bindings. I can recommend the following books to you for
            bindings, although I don't know about anything specifically Flemish. The
            first two have some fantastic color pictures.

            The British Library Guide to Bookbinding- History & Techniques by PJM
            Marks, University of Toronto Press, 1998, ISBN 0-8020-8176-2

            The Medieval Book, Barbara A. Shailor, University of Toronto Press, 1991,
            ISBN 0-8020-6853-7

            This one is hands-down the best book ever written on medieval bookbinding.
            Unfortunately, it's published by one of those high-end printers & costs
            around $165 or so- I recommend inter-library loan. I'm also thinking of
            co-ordinating a letter-writing campaign to the publisher to get them to put
            out a more affordable trade paperback version. :)

            The Archaeology of Medieval Bookbinding by J.A, Szirmai, Ashgate Press,
            1999, ISBN 0-85967-904-7

            I'll also post something onto the SCA-Binders & the Bookbinding lists & see
            if any of them has turned up anything on specifically Flemish bindings. Do
            you have a specific year or timeframe that you're looking for? That makes
            a big difference. Or do you just want something Flemish? :)

            On pure gut instinct, you may want to go with the embroidered binding. I
            have a feeling it would work beautifully with the illuminations. :)

            Sharon/Morwenna
            who's happy to be talking about books instead of shoes. :)



            I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
          • Sharon Burrows
            ? ... Greetings from Aelana There is a wonderful book the Archeology of Medieval Books that gives details of book covers from Coptic and Nag Hammadi codexes
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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              ?
              >
              >I was wanting information on what a period book cover
              >looked like. All of the example I have seen have been
              >embellished with metal and jewels. I can't imagine
              >that they did every book cover that way. Books were
              >luxury items just from the time it took to create
              >them.

              Greetings from Aelana

              There is a wonderful book the Archeology of Medieval Books that
              gives details of book covers from Coptic and Nag Hammadi codexes to 16th,
              17 and 18th century books and everything in between. Many of them are
              beautifully leather bound, tooled and stamkped designs. Se if you can
              borrow a copy through interlibrary loan as its quite pricey..



              Yours in Service

              Aelana Cordovera, MI, AA, J de L, Golden Swan, LA, LS,
              Arts & Sciences Minister, Crown Principality of the North
              Antir Costume Guild Education Officer

              Life in the slow lane is rich and full.
            • Whitney Dickinson
              As Sharon mentioned, it all depends where and when you re interested. I m guessing that since you ve narrowed the place to Flanders, you re not as picky about
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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                As Sharon mentioned, it all depends where and when you're interested. I'm
                guessing that since you've narrowed the place to Flanders, you're not as
                picky about the when?

                Interestingly, later Flemish bindings are particularly famous for being
                panel stamped. I just happen to have a reference to a book on Flemish
                bindings:
                FOGELMARK Staffan. Flemish & Related Panel Stamped Bindings. New York:
                Bibliographical Society of America, 1990.

                In addition to the books mentioned by the Sharons (:-), you might have some
                luck with references with more photos of the covers like:

                MINER Dorothy. The History of Bookbinding 525-1950 A.D.: an Exhibition held
                at the Baltimore Museum of Art November 12 1957. Baltimore: The Trustees of
                the Walters Art Gallery. 1957. "This is an excellent survey of bookbinding
                history which includes chapters on Treasure Bindings of the Middle Ages,
                Medieval Bindings of Europe, Russia 18th-20th century, Contemporary French
                binding, Contemporary Artists' Wrapper Designs, and Miniature Books.
                Describes 718 items."

                Whitney
                (Who concurs with Sharon that books are fun to talk about, too!)
              • Whitney Dickinson
                ... There s an SCA-Binders list? Would you be willing to send along the subscription info? Whitney Who loves to meet other binders...
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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                  > >--- Sharon Smith Hurlburt <medhbh@...> wrote:
                  > I'll also post something onto the SCA-Binders & the

                  There's an SCA-Binders list? Would you be willing to send along the
                  subscription info?

                  Whitney
                  Who loves to meet other binders...
                • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
                  ... Why, yes, yes there is. :) The address is You subscribe the same way you get onto all of Yahoo s groups-
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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                    At 12:57 PM 11/06/2001 -0800, you wrote:
                    >> >--- Sharon Smith Hurlburt <medhbh@...> wrote:
                    >> I'll also post something onto the SCA-Binders & the
                    >
                    >There's an SCA-Binders list? Would you be willing to send along the
                    >subscription info?
                    >

                    Why, yes, yes there is. :)

                    The address is <SCA-Binders@yahoogroups.com>
                    You subscribe the same way you get onto all of Yahoo's groups-
                    <SCA-Binders-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>. (I love simple things with
                    computers- so few things are)

                    I have to warn you- it's *very* low traffic & oddly slow. I've joked to my
                    husband that it's the most medieval medieval list I'm on- it can take days
                    or weeks to get a reply. I suspect there's some who quite literally go out
                    & research each question as it's asked, which is why it can take so long. :)

                    Do you go to Pennsic? Last year, another binder in AEthlemearc organized a
                    gathering for other SCAdian bookbinders- it was very cool.

                    Sharon/Morwenna
                    whose husband was not very pleased by Witney's last post, as her reaction
                    to it was, "More books about books! They must be mine!" (I think he
                    worries that I'm going to sneak out & order the Szirmai book on him one of
                    these days... <G>)



                    >Whitney
                    >Who loves to meet other binders...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >




                    I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
                  • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
                    For another interesting book on books, I should also suggest The Art of the Book- From Medieval Manuscript to Graphic Novel, Edited by James Bettley, published
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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                      For another interesting book on books, I should also suggest The Art of the
                      Book- From Medieval Manuscript to Graphic Novel, Edited by James Bettley,
                      published by Abrams, (C) 2001

                      It has a section on bindings, a section on illuminations, a nice article
                      on Michelangelo's Notebook & goes all the way up through Henri Mattise's
                      Jazz & the work of Robert Crumb, Stan Lee & Alan Moore. Basically, it
                      covers all the books in the National Library in the Victoria & Albert
                      Museum. (As someone whose interests range from medieval illumination to
                      art to artist books to modern graphic novels- currently reading Alan
                      Moore's "From Hell"- this book was way too me.). It's not cheap, though-
                      it runs about $50, but it's got 100 color illustrations (as opposed to the
                      Szirmai, which has all black & white photos).

                      Sharon/Morwenna
                      who should confess that any mention of Flanders brings to mind a song done
                      by the Pogues-- "....Come wind, come rain or hail or snow, I'm not going
                      down to Flanders, oh, Let English men fight English wars, It's nearly time
                      they started, oh...."





                      I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
                    • Anna Troy
                      Uhm guys, I took a look at with www.bookfinder.com and you can get The Medieval Book, Barbara A. Shailor for $25.95 at Barns & Nobles
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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                        Uhm guys, I took a look at with www.bookfinder.com and
                        you can get The Medieval Book, Barbara A. Shailor for
                        $25.95 at Barns & Nobles
                        http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/

                        A little extra thing about embroidered book covers. In
                        Embroiderers (Medieval Craftsmen)by Kay Staniland
                        there is a picture of a small book with an cover that
                        was embroidered by a certain Elizabeth, aged six, for
                        her daddy the King...

                        Anna de Byxe, who wants to take a course in
                        bookbinding some day. :-)



                        =====
                        "So many books, so little time."

                        "Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED to:
                        http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts

                        __________________________________________________
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                      • MH A-TeamFan
                        Thanks for all the information. I ll check it out. Especially the Barnes and Noble thing. Our libraries out here leave something to be desired. Except my
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 7, 2001
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                          Thanks for all the information. I'll check it out.
                          Especially the Barnes and Noble thing. Our libraries
                          out here leave something to be desired.

                          Except my home-town library that has very limited
                          selection, but everything they do have was printed in
                          1880-something with a leather binding. They have an
                          entire collection of first edition Wizard of Oz books.
                          If they ever have a library sale....



                          --- Anna Troy <owly3@...> wrote:
                          > Uhm guys, I took a look at with www.bookfinder.com
                          > and
                          > you can get The Medieval Book, Barbara A. Shailor
                          > for
                          > $25.95 at Barns & Nobles
                          > http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/
                          >
                          > A little extra thing about embroidered book covers.
                          > In
                          > Embroiderers (Medieval Craftsmen)by Kay Staniland
                          > there is a picture of a small book with an cover
                          > that
                          > was embroidered by a certain Elizabeth, aged six,
                          > for
                          > her daddy the King...
                          >
                          > Anna de Byxe, who wants to take a course in
                          > bookbinding some day. :-)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > =====
                          > "So many books, so little time."
                          >
                          > "Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED to:
                          > http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts
                          >
                          > __________________________________________________
                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > Find a job, post your resume.
                          > http://careers.yahoo.com
                          >


                          __________________________________________________
                          Do You Yahoo!?
                          Find a job, post your resume.
                          http://careers.yahoo.com
                        • Sharon Burrows
                          ... And Aelana who also wants to know. Yours in Service Aelana Cordovera, MI, AA, J de L, Golden Swan, LA, LS, Arts & Sciences Minister, Crown Principality
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 7, 2001
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                            >> >--- Sharon Smith Hurlburt <medhbh@...> wrote:
                            >> I'll also post something onto the SCA-Binders & the
                            >
                            >There's an SCA-Binders list? Would you be willing to send along the
                            >subscription info?
                            >
                            >Whitney
                            >Who loves to meet other binders...


                            And Aelana who also wants to know.



                            Yours in Service

                            Aelana Cordovera, MI, AA, J de L, Golden Swan, LA, LS,
                            Arts & Sciences Minister, Crown Principality of the North
                            Antir Costume Guild Education Officer

                            Life in the slow lane is rich and full.
                          • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
                            ... Right & the British Museum Guide to Bookbinding is around $20. It s the Szirmai book that s astronomical. The Art of the Book, which I discussed in a
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 7, 2001
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                              At 11:33 PM 11/06/2001 -0800, you wrote:
                              >Uhm guys, I took a look at with www.bookfinder.com and
                              >you can get The Medieval Book, Barbara A. Shailor for
                              >$25.95 at Barns & Nobles
                              >http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/
                              >

                              Right & the British Museum Guide to Bookbinding is around $20. It's the
                              Szirmai book that's astronomical. The Art of the Book, which I discussed
                              in a different post, runs about $50.

                              Actually, I got The Medieval Book, The British Library Guide to Bookbinding
                              & the Art of the Book through a local SCA book merchant. She has a web
                              site- www.medievalbookstore.com. No kickbacks- she's just a really nice
                              person to deal with & a friend & fellow shire member.

                              >A little extra thing about embroidered book covers. In
                              >Embroiderers (Medieval Craftsmen)by Kay Staniland
                              >there is a picture of a small book with an cover that
                              >was embroidered by a certain Elizabeth, aged six, for
                              >her daddy the King...
                              >

                              This sounds really cool. And I'm pretty sure Leah Janette has that one....

                              Sharon/Morwenna,
                              who told her husband yesterday that half of her Yule Wish List is going to
                              be books on books. :)




                              I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
                            • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
                              ... Can they do inter-library loan? That s where they can get the book from other libraries that do have it. Sometimes you have to pay a small shipping fee,
                              Message 14 of 16 , Nov 7, 2001
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                                At 07:11 AM 11/07/2001 -0800, you wrote:
                                >Thanks for all the information. I'll check it out.
                                >Especially the Barnes and Noble thing. Our libraries
                                >out here leave something to be desired.
                                >
                                >Except my home-town library that has very limited
                                >selection, but everything they do have was printed in
                                >1880-something with a leather binding. They have an
                                >entire collection of first edition Wizard of Oz books.
                                > If they ever have a library sale....
                                >

                                Can they do inter-library loan? That's where they can get the book from
                                other libraries that do have it. Sometimes you have to pay a small
                                shipping fee, but that's about it.

                                That's how my library got me a copy of the Szirmai book, although a friend
                                of mine who works at the main branch of our local library & orders their
                                books told me that she tried to get them to order the Szirmai book
                                specifically because she knew I'd want to read it repeatedly but they
                                wouldn't approve it because it was so expensive.

                                Sharon/Morwenna,
                                who notes that Nan *did* get them to get in some Irish Language software-
                                knowing librarians is very cool.




                                I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
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