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Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Shoe Soles

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  • rmhowe
    ... Well, I have to admit I ve never tried this....but whatever floats your boat. ;) Sorry, couldn t resist the straight line. I seriously believe spiked high
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 31, 2001
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      Ken Nye wrote:
      > Women who learn to walk in high heels make the transition
      > seamlessly but we guys take a bit longer to figure it out, usually
      > while nursing sore and bruised heels.

      Well, I have to admit I've never tried this....but whatever floats
      your boat. ;) Sorry, couldn't resist the straight line.

      I seriously believe spiked high heels should be a required part of SCA
      Ducal Regalia myself. Anything that helps spot one from a distance...

      I'm not partial to Venetian chopines either. Must be genetic.
      I did get to see Master Henry Best's apprentice on stilts
      at Pennsic though in a formal dance. One of those odd things
      I photographed this year.

      > I will admit to the dubious advantages of a Catholic education where
      > one of the first things you learn is to walk quietly on the fore
      > part of the foot. Best not to attract attention to yourself in
      > those long, echoing corridors. - Ken

      We had this latin teacher who used to have a peculiar walk - chest
      and backend out with high heels - could hear her coming a hundred
      yards down the hall - used to joke that if she ever turned quickly
      she'd knock the blackboards off the walls. Unmistakably unique walk.

      I learned something similar working in a prison.
      (Lots of officers liked wearing crepe soles.)

      (I did spend some years in a high episcopal boarding school too
      though which was every bit as dangerous. My first two years of
      latin I had Captain Reid, who was one of Patton's officers. He
      liked beating conjugations and declensions into us literally.)

      Put your heel down first and rotate along the outside of the foot
      to the front with each step. Much quieter than normal walking.
      Especially when you are trying to listen for or locate trouble.
      I used to work in maximum security cell blocks and mental wards.
      Carrying a large flashlight upside down by the head overhand proved
      quite useful in parrying, especially when aimed back of the wrist.

      What always worried me was coming past a cell wall and meeting a
      shattered broomstick spear. I also believed in wearing a
      clip-on tie. Had it snatched about five times through the bars. I've
      been known to try pulling the other guy through a 4" gap myself
      in return. Traction can be -very- important. Trust me on this. ;)

      Steel toed shoes had certain advantages as well. Starting a fight by
      stomping down on someone's instep was something an inmate warned me
      about. I was taking metalshop about this time and had the new steel
      toes on. When a blowhorn metal stake fell untouched point down out
      of a rack on the steel toe those shoes immediately paid for themselves.
      I figure it would probably have severed my second toe. I'm glad I
      took the inmate serioX-Mozilla-Status: 0009m - Wed Oct 31 13:23:00 2001
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      Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Metal inlay
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      Jim Graham wrote:
      >
      > Does anyone have any experience in inlaying brass or copper wire in steel? I've got a seax blade almost finished (started off forging the bugger, figured it's better to try walking before running and switched to stock-removal), and wanted to possibly give a shot doing some simple, linear inlay on it. I'm guessing I can start the grooves for the inlay with a chisel (or Dremel, if need be), but do I need to "dovetail" the grooves to hold the wire for inlay securely? I've looked around for hand gravers, and have become convinced that specialty wire-inlay "dovetailers" don't exist. I've thought about etching the grooves, so that the acid undercuts a bit, but there has got to be an easier solution. Any suggestions?
      >
      > Thanks!
      > Jim

      My reading suggests that the 'Inlay' was accomplished two ways.

      1. It was actually forged -through- the whole thickness.
      This has showed up in some radiographs I've seen having to do
      with Anglo-Saxon Seaxes. Where? In some damned book in some
      damned pile around here. Surprised the hell out of me.
      Possibly in one of the five Royal Armouries Yearbooks I recently
      read. Then again I've been reading a dozen new Osprey and other
      military recreationist books including Anglo-Saxon Weapons and
      Warfare (but I'm pretty sure it was not in there) which needs
      much better references - "Drawn after Evison" with no further
      reference to her work does -not- cut it when you want details
      on a seax.

      2. It was chiseled in and hammered in with wire.
      The Almgren "Ugly" Viking book depicts the method as being
      chiseled in from -either side of the groove- to make a ^ in the
      metal. Obviously one uses the first line for the second. One
      then inlays the wire and hammers it back down, effectively
      filling the swallows tail.
      Filing/honing/grinding the whole mess smooth afterwards finishes
      it. The arabs and indians seem to be the current practioners of
      this technique. See Oppi Untract's books on metalsmithing.

      While I have experience with hand engraving I'm not terribly
      practiced at hammer engraving. I haven't had those particular
      chisels long enough yet to have tried the technique. However,
      wire inlay over wide areas, even almost covering them is quite
      common in Germanic and Scandinavian metalwork back to the late
      iron age. Almgren is the primary one who depicts this. Having
      dozens of the books on Scandinavian/Gemanic metalwork it is
      likely the most easily accessible and clearest.

      If you are going to use a dremel, use mineral oil, water or something
      to cool the bit. (Motor Oil inhalation is not particularly healthful
      for the lungs. Can coat them.)

      If you are going to etch steel I suppose you'll have to use
      nitric acid. Pour the acid into the water, not the reverse.
      Use a well ventilated area. I've seen a really noxious orange
      cloud arise while doing this with nickel. Make sure your metal
      is extremely clean when you apply the asphaltum or enamel (model)
      paint. I've tried this mess with photo-sensitive resist, asphaltum,
      spray enamel and model paint. I prefer the last two.

      If you look in Tim McCreight's The Complete Metalsmith you will
      also find a technique for tranferring the styrene powder coating
      off of a transparency to your metal for etching with acid.
      Also start with a reverse image of what you want to come out with.
      What is black is what is protected from the acid.
      What is clear is what is eaten and left low.
      So you might want a negative image.
      Also righty/lefty for your design on the transparency.
      This is accomplished by taking a clothing iron, turning it upside
      down in something like a vise (or putting a board through the
      handle) and putting it on what I recall is a linen setting.

      The clean metal is placed back down on the iron, with the
      transparency placed face down on the metal hinged to it with
      a piece of tape (we use duct tape) on one side. One then puts
      on a good pair of leather gloves and pets the back of the
      transparency to transfer the pattern as the metal heats.
      Once it's transferred to the metal one takes the metal off the
      iron, removes the tape, etc. and proceeds to touch up the
      pattern with model paint. (You will find the model paint is a
      superior resist to the styrene.) You also need to coat the
      rest of the metal, edges and back.

      I've also been known to take a xerox and rubber cement it to
      my material, then cut down through it with a knife to put the
      grooves into the metal (or any other material). One then pulls
      off the paper, rubs off the cement, and proceeds to carve,
      paint, engrave, etc. to those lines. It works, the last time
      I did this was this month for etching. I painted the asphaltum
      on by hand, scraped any defects away, or lines in after it dried.
      Since the shop I was in at the time did not have rubber cement I
      used double stick 3M tape under the xerox - would have preferred
      rubber cement - or even carpet tape.

      The last time I tried the technique the acid actually loosened
      the asphaltum and etched up under it. I was trying for a really
      deep etch though, and was in a hurry while making the master.
      (This was on silver, using thalium based darkener a few minutes
      later turned my skin a wonderful chocolate brown where it seems
      to have got at it. Scrubbing did not take it off for days.
      Sandpaper did. I was using Black Max which comes from
      http://www.riogrande.com/
      which is where you can buy etchants and asphaltum as well)

      A feather is necessary for gently wiping off the bubbles in
      the acid as they form on the metal. We used polyethylene vessels
      for the acid each time (think Rubbermaid food containers).
      The items of course have to be coated on back and sides as well.
      One trick to getting them in the acid is to suspend them on
      a pair of strings, grab the ends of the strings and lower them
      into the acid. Baking soda in solution rapidly negates the acid.
      Asphaltum comes off with paint thinner.

      Use rubber gloves and eye protection at the very least.

      If you actually want die sinkers chisels or hand engravers/burins
      look up chisels at http://www.Brownells.com/

      Master Magnus Malleus, OL
      � 2001 R.M. Howe
      *No reposting my writings to newsgroups, especially rec.org.sca, or
      the SCA-Universitas elist. I view this as violating copyright
      restrictions. As long as it's to reenactor or SCA -closed- subscriber
      based email lists or individuals I don't mind. It's meant to
      help people without aggravating me.* Inclusion, in the
      http://www.Florilegium.org/ as always is permitted.


      Jim Graham wrote:
      >
      > Does anyone have any experience in inlaying brass or copper wire in steel? I've got a seax blade almost finished (started off forging the bugger, figured it's better to try walking before running and switched to stock-removal), and wanted to possibly give a shot doing some simple, linear inlay on it. I'm guessing I can start the grooves for the inlay with a chisel (or Dremel, if need be), but do I need to "dovetail" the grooves to hold the wire for inlay securely? I've looked around for hand gravers, and have become convinced that specialty wire-inlay "dovetailers" don't exist. I've thought about etching the grooves, so that the acid undercuts a bit, but there has got to be an easier solution. Any suggestions?
      >
      > Thanks!
      > Jim
    • MH A-TeamFan
      I was wondering if anyone know if a source for book cover patterns. I have a bunch of flemish style illuminations that I would like to bind in a book. Any
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 1, 2001
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        I was wondering if anyone know if a source for book
        cover patterns. I have a bunch of flemish style
        illuminations that I would like to bind in a book.

        Any ideas?


        --- rmhowe <mmagnusm@...> wrote:
        > Ken Nye wrote:
        > > Women who learn to walk in high heels make the
        > transition
        > > seamlessly but we guys take a bit longer to figure
        > it out, usually
        > > while nursing sore and bruised heels.
        >
        > Well, I have to admit I've never tried this....but
        > whatever floats
        > your boat. ;) Sorry, couldn't resist the straight
        > line.
        >
        > I seriously believe spiked high heels should be a
        > required part of SCA
        > Ducal Regalia myself. Anything that helps spot one
        > from a distance...
        >
        > I'm not partial to Venetian chopines either. Must be
        > genetic.
        > I did get to see Master Henry Best's apprentice on
        > stilts
        > at Pennsic though in a formal dance. One of those
        > odd things
        > I photographed this year.
        >
        > > I will admit to the dubious advantages of a
        > Catholic education where
        > > one of the first things you learn is to walk
        > quietly on the fore
        > > part of the foot. Best not to attract attention
        > to yourself in
        > > those long, echoing corridors. - Ken
        >
        > We had this latin teacher who used to have a
        > peculiar walk - chest
        > and backend out with high heels - could hear her
        > coming a hundred
        > yards down the hall - used to joke that if she ever
        > turned quickly
        > she'd knock the blackboards off the walls.
        > Unmistakably unique walk.
        >
        > I learned something similar working in a prison.
        > (Lots of officers liked wearing crepe soles.)
        >
        > (I did spend some years in a high episcopal boarding
        > school too
        > though which was every bit as dangerous. My first
        > two years of
        > latin I had Captain Reid, who was one of Patton's
        > officers. He
        > liked beating conjugations and declensions into us
        > literally.)
        >
        > Put your heel down first and rotate along the
        > outside of the foot
        > to the front with each step. Much quieter than
        > normal walking.
        > Especially when you are trying to listen for or
        > locate trouble.
        > I used to work in maximum security cell blocks and
        > mental wards.
        > Carrying a large flashlight upside down by the head
        > overhand proved
        > quite useful in parrying, especially when aimed back
        > of the wrist.
        >
        > What always worried me was coming past a cell wall
        > and meeting a
        > shattered broomstick spear. I also believed in
        > wearing a
        > clip-on tie. Had it snatched about five times
        > through the bars. I've
        > been known to try pulling the other guy through a 4"
        > gap myself
        > in return. Traction can be -very- important. Trust
        > me on this. ;)
        >
        > Steel toed shoes had certain advantages as well.
        > Starting a fight by
        > stomping down on someone's instep was something an
        > inmate warned me
        > about. I was taking metalshop about this time and
        > had the new steel
        > toes on. When a blowhorn metal stake fell untouched
        > point down out
        > of a rack on the steel toe those shoes immediately
        > paid for themselves.
        > I figure it would probably have severed my second
        > toe. I'm glad I
        > took the inmate serioX-Mozilla-Status: 0009m - Wed
        > Oct 31 13:23:00 2001
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        > Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:23:00 -0500
        > From: rmhowe <MMagnusM@...>
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        > (Win95; I)
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        > MIME-Version: 1.0
        > To: list-regia-us@...
        > Subject: Re: [Regia-NA] Metal inlay
        > References:
        > <001601c14cde$d93f9cc0$b2f65ba5@...>
        > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
        > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
        >
        > Jim Graham wrote:
        > >
        > > Does anyone have any experience in inlaying brass
        > or copper wire in steel? I've got a seax blade
        > almost finished (started off forging the bugger,
        > figured it's better to try walking before running
        > and switched to stock-removal), and wanted to
        > possibly give a shot doing some simple, linear inlay
        > on it. I'm guessing I can start the grooves for the
        > inlay with a chisel (or Dremel, if need be), but do
        > I need to "dovetail" the grooves to hold the wire
        > for inlay securely? I've looked around for hand
        > gravers, and have become convinced that specialty
        > wire-inlay "dovetailers" don't exist. I've thought
        > about etching the grooves, so that the acid
        > undercuts a bit, but there has got to be an easier
        > solution. Any suggestions?
        > >
        > > Thanks!
        > > Jim
        >
        > My reading suggests that the 'Inlay' was
        > accomplished two ways.
        >
        > 1. It was actually forged -through- the whole
        > thickness.
        > This has showed up in some radiographs I've seen
        > having to do
        > with Anglo-Saxon Seaxes. Where? In some damned
        > book in some
        > damned pile around here. Surprised the hell out
        > of me.
        > Possibly in one of the five Royal Armouries
        > Yearbooks I recently
        > read. Then again I've been reading a dozen new
        > Osprey and other
        > military recreationist books including
        > Anglo-Saxon Weapons and
        > Warfare (but I'm pretty sure it was not in there)
        > which needs
        > much better references - "Drawn after Evison"
        > with no further
        > reference to her work does -not- cut it when you
        > want details
        > on a seax.
        >
        > 2. It was chiseled in and hammered in with wire.
        > The Almgren "Ugly" Viking book depicts the method
        > as being
        > chiseled in from -either side of the groove- to
        > make a ^ in the
        > metal. Obviously one uses the first line for the
        > second. One
        > then inlays the wire and hammers it back down,
        > effectively
        > filling the swallows tail.
        > Filing/honing/grinding the whole mess smooth
        > afterwards finishes
        > it. The arabs and indians seem to be the current
        > practioners of
        > this technique. See Oppi Untract's books on
        > metalsmithing.
        >
        > While I have experience with hand engraving I'm not
        > terribly
        > practiced at hammer engraving. I haven't had those
        > particular
        > chisels long enough yet to have tried the technique.
        > However,
        > wire inlay over wide areas, even almost covering
        > them is quite
        > common in Germanic and Scandinavian metalwork back
        > to the late
        > iron age. Almgren is the primary one who depicts
        > this. Having
        > dozens of the books on Scandinavian/Gemanic
        > metalwork it is
        > likely the most easily accessible and clearest.
        >
        > If you are going to use a dremel, use mineral oil,
        > water or something
        > to cool the bit. (Motor Oil inhalation is not
        > particularly healthful
        > for the lungs. Can coat them.)
        >
        > If you are going to etch steel I suppose you'll have
        > to use
        > nitric acid. Pour the acid into the water, not the
        > reverse.
        >
        === message truncated ===


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      • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
        ... What do you mean by book cover patterns? Do you information on binding the book itself or how to decorate the front cover? Sharon/ Morwenna who could help
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 3, 2001
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          At 09:08 AM 11/01/2001 -0800, you wrote:
          >I was wondering if anyone know if a source for book
          >cover patterns. I have a bunch of flemish style
          >illuminations that I would like to bind in a book.
          >
          >Any ideas?
          >
          What do you mean by book cover patterns?

          Do you information on binding the book itself or how to decorate the front
          cover?

          Sharon/ Morwenna
          who could help with both




          I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
        • MH A-TeamFan
          ... I was wanting information on what a period book cover looked like. All of the example I have seen have been embellished with metal and jewels. I can t
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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            --- Sharon Smith Hurlburt <medhbh@...> wrote:
            > What do you mean by book cover patterns?
            >
            > Do you information on binding the book itself or how
            > to decorate the front
            > cover?

            I was wanting information on what a period book cover
            looked like. All of the example I have seen have been
            embellished with metal and jewels. I can't imagine
            that they did every book cover that way. Books were
            luxury items just from the time it took to create
            them.

            I have some flemish style stuff so a flemish book
            cover would probably be a good idea.

            Thanks!


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          • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
            ... As a matter of fact, they had many, many different ways to decorate book bindings- depending on where you were & what the time period was. Indeed, not all
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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              At 06:36 AM 11/06/2001 -0800, you wrote:
              >
              >--- Sharon Smith Hurlburt <medhbh@...> wrote:
              >> What do you mean by book cover patterns?
              >>
              >> Do you information on binding the book itself or how
              >> to decorate the front
              >> cover?
              >
              >I was wanting information on what a period book cover
              >looked like. All of the example I have seen have been
              >embellished with metal and jewels. I can't imagine
              >that they did every book cover that way. Books were
              >luxury items just from the time it took to create
              >them.
              >
              >I have some flemish style stuff so a flemish book
              >cover would probably be a good idea.
              >

              As a matter of fact, they had many, many different ways to decorate book
              bindings- depending on where you were & what the time period was. Indeed,
              not all of them involved leather. I've seen some pictures of some gorgeous
              embroidered bindings. I can recommend the following books to you for
              bindings, although I don't know about anything specifically Flemish. The
              first two have some fantastic color pictures.

              The British Library Guide to Bookbinding- History & Techniques by PJM
              Marks, University of Toronto Press, 1998, ISBN 0-8020-8176-2

              The Medieval Book, Barbara A. Shailor, University of Toronto Press, 1991,
              ISBN 0-8020-6853-7

              This one is hands-down the best book ever written on medieval bookbinding.
              Unfortunately, it's published by one of those high-end printers & costs
              around $165 or so- I recommend inter-library loan. I'm also thinking of
              co-ordinating a letter-writing campaign to the publisher to get them to put
              out a more affordable trade paperback version. :)

              The Archaeology of Medieval Bookbinding by J.A, Szirmai, Ashgate Press,
              1999, ISBN 0-85967-904-7

              I'll also post something onto the SCA-Binders & the Bookbinding lists & see
              if any of them has turned up anything on specifically Flemish bindings. Do
              you have a specific year or timeframe that you're looking for? That makes
              a big difference. Or do you just want something Flemish? :)

              On pure gut instinct, you may want to go with the embroidered binding. I
              have a feeling it would work beautifully with the illuminations. :)

              Sharon/Morwenna
              who's happy to be talking about books instead of shoes. :)



              I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
            • Sharon Burrows
              ? ... Greetings from Aelana There is a wonderful book the Archeology of Medieval Books that gives details of book covers from Coptic and Nag Hammadi codexes
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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                ?
                >
                >I was wanting information on what a period book cover
                >looked like. All of the example I have seen have been
                >embellished with metal and jewels. I can't imagine
                >that they did every book cover that way. Books were
                >luxury items just from the time it took to create
                >them.

                Greetings from Aelana

                There is a wonderful book the Archeology of Medieval Books that
                gives details of book covers from Coptic and Nag Hammadi codexes to 16th,
                17 and 18th century books and everything in between. Many of them are
                beautifully leather bound, tooled and stamkped designs. Se if you can
                borrow a copy through interlibrary loan as its quite pricey..



                Yours in Service

                Aelana Cordovera, MI, AA, J de L, Golden Swan, LA, LS,
                Arts & Sciences Minister, Crown Principality of the North
                Antir Costume Guild Education Officer

                Life in the slow lane is rich and full.
              • Whitney Dickinson
                As Sharon mentioned, it all depends where and when you re interested. I m guessing that since you ve narrowed the place to Flanders, you re not as picky about
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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                  As Sharon mentioned, it all depends where and when you're interested. I'm
                  guessing that since you've narrowed the place to Flanders, you're not as
                  picky about the when?

                  Interestingly, later Flemish bindings are particularly famous for being
                  panel stamped. I just happen to have a reference to a book on Flemish
                  bindings:
                  FOGELMARK Staffan. Flemish & Related Panel Stamped Bindings. New York:
                  Bibliographical Society of America, 1990.

                  In addition to the books mentioned by the Sharons (:-), you might have some
                  luck with references with more photos of the covers like:

                  MINER Dorothy. The History of Bookbinding 525-1950 A.D.: an Exhibition held
                  at the Baltimore Museum of Art November 12 1957. Baltimore: The Trustees of
                  the Walters Art Gallery. 1957. "This is an excellent survey of bookbinding
                  history which includes chapters on Treasure Bindings of the Middle Ages,
                  Medieval Bindings of Europe, Russia 18th-20th century, Contemporary French
                  binding, Contemporary Artists' Wrapper Designs, and Miniature Books.
                  Describes 718 items."

                  Whitney
                  (Who concurs with Sharon that books are fun to talk about, too!)
                • Whitney Dickinson
                  ... There s an SCA-Binders list? Would you be willing to send along the subscription info? Whitney Who loves to meet other binders...
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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                    > >--- Sharon Smith Hurlburt <medhbh@...> wrote:
                    > I'll also post something onto the SCA-Binders & the

                    There's an SCA-Binders list? Would you be willing to send along the
                    subscription info?

                    Whitney
                    Who loves to meet other binders...
                  • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
                    ... Why, yes, yes there is. :) The address is You subscribe the same way you get onto all of Yahoo s groups-
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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                      At 12:57 PM 11/06/2001 -0800, you wrote:
                      >> >--- Sharon Smith Hurlburt <medhbh@...> wrote:
                      >> I'll also post something onto the SCA-Binders & the
                      >
                      >There's an SCA-Binders list? Would you be willing to send along the
                      >subscription info?
                      >

                      Why, yes, yes there is. :)

                      The address is <SCA-Binders@yahoogroups.com>
                      You subscribe the same way you get onto all of Yahoo's groups-
                      <SCA-Binders-subscribe@yahoogroups.com>. (I love simple things with
                      computers- so few things are)

                      I have to warn you- it's *very* low traffic & oddly slow. I've joked to my
                      husband that it's the most medieval medieval list I'm on- it can take days
                      or weeks to get a reply. I suspect there's some who quite literally go out
                      & research each question as it's asked, which is why it can take so long. :)

                      Do you go to Pennsic? Last year, another binder in AEthlemearc organized a
                      gathering for other SCAdian bookbinders- it was very cool.

                      Sharon/Morwenna
                      whose husband was not very pleased by Witney's last post, as her reaction
                      to it was, "More books about books! They must be mine!" (I think he
                      worries that I'm going to sneak out & order the Szirmai book on him one of
                      these days... <G>)



                      >Whitney
                      >Who loves to meet other binders...
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >




                      I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
                    • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
                      For another interesting book on books, I should also suggest The Art of the Book- From Medieval Manuscript to Graphic Novel, Edited by James Bettley, published
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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                        For another interesting book on books, I should also suggest The Art of the
                        Book- From Medieval Manuscript to Graphic Novel, Edited by James Bettley,
                        published by Abrams, (C) 2001

                        It has a section on bindings, a section on illuminations, a nice article
                        on Michelangelo's Notebook & goes all the way up through Henri Mattise's
                        Jazz & the work of Robert Crumb, Stan Lee & Alan Moore. Basically, it
                        covers all the books in the National Library in the Victoria & Albert
                        Museum. (As someone whose interests range from medieval illumination to
                        art to artist books to modern graphic novels- currently reading Alan
                        Moore's "From Hell"- this book was way too me.). It's not cheap, though-
                        it runs about $50, but it's got 100 color illustrations (as opposed to the
                        Szirmai, which has all black & white photos).

                        Sharon/Morwenna
                        who should confess that any mention of Flanders brings to mind a song done
                        by the Pogues-- "....Come wind, come rain or hail or snow, I'm not going
                        down to Flanders, oh, Let English men fight English wars, It's nearly time
                        they started, oh...."





                        I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
                      • Anna Troy
                        Uhm guys, I took a look at with www.bookfinder.com and you can get The Medieval Book, Barbara A. Shailor for $25.95 at Barns & Nobles
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 6, 2001
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                          Uhm guys, I took a look at with www.bookfinder.com and
                          you can get The Medieval Book, Barbara A. Shailor for
                          $25.95 at Barns & Nobles
                          http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/

                          A little extra thing about embroidered book covers. In
                          Embroiderers (Medieval Craftsmen)by Kay Staniland
                          there is a picture of a small book with an cover that
                          was embroidered by a certain Elizabeth, aged six, for
                          her daddy the King...

                          Anna de Byxe, who wants to take a course in
                          bookbinding some day. :-)



                          =====
                          "So many books, so little time."

                          "Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED to:
                          http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts

                          __________________________________________________
                          Do You Yahoo!?
                          Find a job, post your resume.
                          http://careers.yahoo.com
                        • MH A-TeamFan
                          Thanks for all the information. I ll check it out. Especially the Barnes and Noble thing. Our libraries out here leave something to be desired. Except my
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 7, 2001
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                            Thanks for all the information. I'll check it out.
                            Especially the Barnes and Noble thing. Our libraries
                            out here leave something to be desired.

                            Except my home-town library that has very limited
                            selection, but everything they do have was printed in
                            1880-something with a leather binding. They have an
                            entire collection of first edition Wizard of Oz books.
                            If they ever have a library sale....



                            --- Anna Troy <owly3@...> wrote:
                            > Uhm guys, I took a look at with www.bookfinder.com
                            > and
                            > you can get The Medieval Book, Barbara A. Shailor
                            > for
                            > $25.95 at Barns & Nobles
                            > http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/
                            >
                            > A little extra thing about embroidered book covers.
                            > In
                            > Embroiderers (Medieval Craftsmen)by Kay Staniland
                            > there is a picture of a small book with an cover
                            > that
                            > was embroidered by a certain Elizabeth, aged six,
                            > for
                            > her daddy the King...
                            >
                            > Anna de Byxe, who wants to take a course in
                            > bookbinding some day. :-)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > =====
                            > "So many books, so little time."
                            >
                            > "Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED to:
                            > http://www.angelfire.com/retro/crafts
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > Find a job, post your resume.
                            > http://careers.yahoo.com
                            >


                            __________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!?
                            Find a job, post your resume.
                            http://careers.yahoo.com
                          • Sharon Burrows
                            ... And Aelana who also wants to know. Yours in Service Aelana Cordovera, MI, AA, J de L, Golden Swan, LA, LS, Arts & Sciences Minister, Crown Principality
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 7, 2001
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                              >> >--- Sharon Smith Hurlburt <medhbh@...> wrote:
                              >> I'll also post something onto the SCA-Binders & the
                              >
                              >There's an SCA-Binders list? Would you be willing to send along the
                              >subscription info?
                              >
                              >Whitney
                              >Who loves to meet other binders...


                              And Aelana who also wants to know.



                              Yours in Service

                              Aelana Cordovera, MI, AA, J de L, Golden Swan, LA, LS,
                              Arts & Sciences Minister, Crown Principality of the North
                              Antir Costume Guild Education Officer

                              Life in the slow lane is rich and full.
                            • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
                              ... Right & the British Museum Guide to Bookbinding is around $20. It s the Szirmai book that s astronomical. The Art of the Book, which I discussed in a
                              Message 14 of 16 , Nov 7, 2001
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                                At 11:33 PM 11/06/2001 -0800, you wrote:
                                >Uhm guys, I took a look at with www.bookfinder.com and
                                >you can get The Medieval Book, Barbara A. Shailor for
                                >$25.95 at Barns & Nobles
                                >http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/
                                >

                                Right & the British Museum Guide to Bookbinding is around $20. It's the
                                Szirmai book that's astronomical. The Art of the Book, which I discussed
                                in a different post, runs about $50.

                                Actually, I got The Medieval Book, The British Library Guide to Bookbinding
                                & the Art of the Book through a local SCA book merchant. She has a web
                                site- www.medievalbookstore.com. No kickbacks- she's just a really nice
                                person to deal with & a friend & fellow shire member.

                                >A little extra thing about embroidered book covers. In
                                >Embroiderers (Medieval Craftsmen)by Kay Staniland
                                >there is a picture of a small book with an cover that
                                >was embroidered by a certain Elizabeth, aged six, for
                                >her daddy the King...
                                >

                                This sounds really cool. And I'm pretty sure Leah Janette has that one....

                                Sharon/Morwenna,
                                who told her husband yesterday that half of her Yule Wish List is going to
                                be books on books. :)




                                I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
                              • Sharon Smith Hurlburt
                                ... Can they do inter-library loan? That s where they can get the book from other libraries that do have it. Sometimes you have to pay a small shipping fee,
                                Message 15 of 16 , Nov 7, 2001
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                                  At 07:11 AM 11/07/2001 -0800, you wrote:
                                  >Thanks for all the information. I'll check it out.
                                  >Especially the Barnes and Noble thing. Our libraries
                                  >out here leave something to be desired.
                                  >
                                  >Except my home-town library that has very limited
                                  >selection, but everything they do have was printed in
                                  >1880-something with a leather binding. They have an
                                  >entire collection of first edition Wizard of Oz books.
                                  > If they ever have a library sale....
                                  >

                                  Can they do inter-library loan? That's where they can get the book from
                                  other libraries that do have it. Sometimes you have to pay a small
                                  shipping fee, but that's about it.

                                  That's how my library got me a copy of the Szirmai book, although a friend
                                  of mine who works at the main branch of our local library & orders their
                                  books told me that she tried to get them to order the Szirmai book
                                  specifically because she knew I'd want to read it repeatedly but they
                                  wouldn't approve it because it was so expensive.

                                  Sharon/Morwenna,
                                  who notes that Nan *did* get them to get in some Irish Language software-
                                  knowing librarians is very cool.




                                  I know we can never be truly safe, so I would rather be free.
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