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Re: [medieval-leather]Painting leather

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  • jamesahowell@juno.com
    I haven t messed with the Leather Factory oil based dyes, but Fiebings oil based dyes work like alchohol based dyes, and they are pretty bright. I personally
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 19, 2001
      I haven't messed with the Leather Factory oil based dyes, but
      Fiebings oil based dyes work like alchohol based dyes, and they are
      pretty bright. I personally recomend Tandy's Cova dyes-they are their
      acrylic based dyes and have worked really well for me.

      Regards, Finnr

      On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 09:01:24 -0500 Marc Carlson <marc-carlson@...>
      writes:
      >
      > >>Patience is no problem. ( I bead with 56 ought beads so... <G> )
      > That
      > >>said, what kind of oil paints. Should I get the oil based dyes
      > from the
      > >>Leather Factory?
      >
      > Anyone here have any experience with these? How bright are they?
      >
      > Marc
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >


      "Better is alive than lifeless to be; the living can always get a cow.
      The halt can ride a horse, the hand-less drive a flock, the deaf can
      bravely battle.
      A blind man is better than a burned one; a corpse is useless to all."
      Havamal
      My home page http://homestead.juno.com/jamesahowell/Finnston.html
      The Manx http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheManx
    • Lynn Graves
      I personally recommend Tandy s Cova dyes-they are their acrylic based dyes and have worked really well for me. Regards, Finnr They are also fairly
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 20, 2001
        I personally recommend Tandy's Cova dyes-they are their acrylic based
        dyes and have worked really well for me.

        Regards, Finnr>>>>>>>>>

        They are also fairly inexpensive which is good. :-) That's what I used
        on Fredrik's white belt, the only problem we have had with it, is that
        it cracks and flakes off after a time. ( I guess that is going to happen
        with just about any paint. ) My red belt, which is dyed instead, hasn't
        had any problems.

        Aislinn
        Tribe Rolling Thunder, Sisterhood of the Serpent
        The Rolling Thunder web site --
        http://www.geocities.com/aislinn0325/drum.htm

        * Ask no more and give no less than honesty, courage, loyalty,
        generosity, and fairness. *
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      • Scott Szakonyi
        Marc, I use them all the time for flat color dying, but I wouldn t recommend them for painting, as they penetrate deeply in all directions and will leach into
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 20, 2001
          Marc,

          I use them all the time for flat color dying, but I
          wouldn't recommend them for painting, as they
          penetrate deeply in all directions and will leach into
          areas where you don't want them. Most folks I know
          use one of these:

          Acrylics, either opaque or transparent.
          Spirit based dyes.
          Water based tints.

          Personally, I favor the transparent acrylics.

          Scott
          --- Marc Carlson <marc-carlson@...> wrote:
          >
          > >>Patience is no problem. ( I bead with 56 ought
          > beads so... <G> ) That
          > >>said, what kind of oil paints. Should I get the
          > oil based dyes from the
          > >>Leather Factory?
          >
          > Anyone here have any experience with these? How
          > bright are they?
          >
          > Marc
          >
          >


          =====
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          email: thorsman99@...

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        • jamesahowell@juno.com
          Quite right-dye soaks into the leather- cova dye, as has been suggested, is an acrylic paint and sits on top of the leather. Finnr. On Fri, 20 Jul 2001
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 20, 2001
            Quite right-dye soaks into the leather- cova dye, as has been
            suggested, is an acrylic paint and sits on top of the leather.
            Finnr.


            On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:34:30 -0500 Lynn Graves
            <HouseRollingThunder@...> writes:
            > I personally recommend Tandy's Cova dyes-they are their acrylic
            > based
            > dyes and have worked really well for me.
            >
            >
            > Regards, Finnr>>>>>>>>>
            >
            > They are also fairly inexpensive which is good. :-) That's what I
            > used
            > on Fredrik's white belt, the only problem we have had with it, is
            > that
            > it cracks and flakes off after a time. ( I guess that is going to
            > happen
            > with just about any paint. ) My red belt, which is dyed instead,
            > hasn't
            > had any problems.
            >
            > Aislinn
            > Tribe Rolling Thunder, Sisterhood of the Serpent
            > The Rolling Thunder web site --
            > http://www.geocities.com/aislinn0325/drum.htm
            >
            > * Ask no more and give no less than honesty, courage, loyalty,
            > generosity, and fairness. *
            > ________________________________________________________________
            > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
            > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
            > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >


            "Better is alive than lifeless to be; the living can always get a cow.
            The halt can ride a horse, the hand-less drive a flock, the deaf can
            bravely battle.
            A blind man is better than a burned one; a corpse is useless to all."
            Havamal
            My home page http://homestead.juno.com/jamesahowell/Finnston.html
            The Manx http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheManx
          • Ron Charlotte
            ... Actually, awhile back, I started using the Folk Art artists acrylics. Most of their flatter shades are a lot closer in appearance to the kind of pigments
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 20, 2001
              At 01:06 AM 7/20/01 -0400, you wrote:
                      I haven't messed with the Leather Factory oil based dyes, but
              Fiebings oil based dyes work like alchohol based dyes, and they are
              pretty bright.  I personally recomend Tandy's Cova dyes-they are their
              acrylic based dyes and have worked really well for me.
                                                                                      

              Actually, awhile back, I started using the Folk Art artists acrylics.  Most of their flatter shades are a lot closer in appearance to the kind of pigments that I've seen on photos and museum exhibits of extant items (the Covas tend to be a bit too intense to my eye), and wear very well.   The color selectiom is far better as well.  I recently got a 8 year old knife scabbard back (the brass boot clip broke, my soldering wasn't as good then) for a repair, and other than a bit of wear on the high points of the design, the colors held up very well compared to the photo I took of it when it was first finished especially considering it's normal place is tucked into a boot. 

              I've tried oils, but in the FL heat and humidity, they never really set properly.  I've done a couple of pieces with a egg tempra, but those were purely display items.   For the kind of abuse that many of these pieces get, I'll stick with the acrylic.

                       al Thaalibi -- An Crosaire, Trimaris
                       Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                       ronch2@... OR afn03234@... 

            • Lynn Graves
              Thank you all for the advice and the welcome. I think I m gonna go with the acrylic paints and see how that works. :-) Next question would be ... does any one
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 21, 2001
                Thank you all for the advice and the welcome. I think I'm gonna go with
                the acrylic paints and see how that works. :-)

                Next question would be ... does any one know where I can get a good
                pattern for leg armor ( greeves ) ? I have a pattern for elbow cops and
                bracers. Would that work for greeves as well if I modify the length?

                Aislinn
                Tribe Rolling Thunder, Sisterhood of the Serpent
                The Rolling Thunder web site --
                http://www.geocities.com/aislinn0325/drum.htm

                * Ask no more and give no less than honesty, courage, loyalty,
                generosity, and fairness. *
                ________________________________________________________________
                GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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              • Peter Adams
                I made a good greave pattern, based on a 15th century line drawing which shows a cased (full) greave laced up the inside of the leg. The odds of lacing metal
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 21, 2001
                  I made a good greave pattern, based on a 15th century line drawing which
                  shows a cased (full) greave laced up the inside of the leg. The odds of
                  lacing metal in that fashion I rate at slim to none.

                  I developed the pattern by putting a knee sock on, and duct taping the snert
                  out of it, including over the top curve of the calf. Then I cut the line
                  down the inside of the leg, carefully. Once I removed the entire piece from
                  the leg, I cut slits down the composite (3d) curves, aka bulges, a total of
                  three as I recall. I cut this out of one piece of leather, and stitched it
                  with a grain/edge stitch on the inside, though almost any stich would do. On
                  the next greaves I make, I plan on curving the darts I cut in the bulges to
                  give a more curved appearance to the calf area, though even if I do say so
                  myself, they arent bad as is.

                  A nice 14th century sculpture I saw showed greaves with two large
                  splints, one outside and one front. I plan on adding splints to the second
                  pair of greaves for both effectiveness in guarding the shin area, and for
                  aesthetci reasons.

                  Peter

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Lynn Graves [mailto:HouseRollingThunder@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 4:01 PM
                  To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [medieval-leather]Painting leather


                  Thanks Sandy , I'll check that out. Are the paints very expensive?

                  Does anyone know where I can get a good pattern for greaves?

                  Aislinn
                  Tribe Rolling Thunder, Sisterhood of the Serpent
                  The Rolling Thunder web site --
                  http://www.geocities.com/aislinn0325/drum.htm

                  * Ask no more and give no less than honesty, courage, loyalty,
                  generosity, and fairness. *
                  ________________________________________________________________
                  GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                  Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                  Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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                • The_redman@compuserve.com
                  In a message dated 7/21/01 1:03:39 AM, HouseRollingThunder@juno.com writes: I
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 21, 2001
                    In a message dated 7/21/01 1:03:39 AM, HouseRollingThunder@... writes:

                    << does any one know where I can get a good
                    pattern for leg armor ( greeves ) >>

                    I still have the patterns for the Brotherhood of the Blade articulated legs,
                    dating back to the 1970's. And yes, I still use those legs, they've held up
                    fine, with having to replace the rivets periodically. Contact me privately,
                    and I'll arrange to get you the patterns and/or the dimensions to recreate
                    them.

                    Duryn/John

                    durynredbaron@...

                    I'm in Caid, by the way.
                  • favour@hyperusa.com
                    Hi! I m new to the group, so I guess I ll just step in here. My wife and I make leather favors for a living (Ren Faires, SCA, fantasy groups and Scottish
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 21, 2001
                      Hi!
                      I'm new to the group, so I guess I'll just step in here. My
                      wife and I make leather favors for a living (Ren Faires, SCA, fantasy
                      groups and Scottish games). We've both also done a good bit of heavy
                      armor and live steel fighting in the past(An Tir and West, now
                      Ansteorra). Most of my experience coloring leather (non-stain) has
                      actually come out of the motorcycle venue, where we've also worked
                      with leather. People seem to have mentioned many of the things we've
                      seen, but I'll throw out a couple more.
                      As far as longevity of paint under heavy abuse, I've seen fairly
                      poor results unless the piece is oversprayed with clear acrylic. The
                      best I've found at a reasonable price (non-craft store) is Krylon
                      brand, quick dry. It doesn't seem to yellow over time and dries
                      evenly. Use the satin for a rich looking finish. Acrylic also
                      provides a good deal of water proofing.
                      For colors, you might also try Delta Ceramcoat (also cheaper
                      than Folk Art). I have noticed that not all colors fade the same
                      over time. My motorcycle club colors (usually a three piece set worn
                      on the back of a vest) are most of a decade old and one or two colors
                      have stayed like new while most have "aged gracefully".
                      One thing I've wanted to try is latex (as in house paint). In
                      the early '80s it was used a lot in An Tir to decorate pavilions.
                      It's flexible and waterproof (very helpful in Oregon/Washington) and
                      bonds well to canvas. I'm not sure how it works on leather. Rit
                      dyes also work well on leather. Try the liquid dye at somewhere
                      between full strengh and 50/50 with water. They act a good deal like
                      plant dyes but with heavier pigment. Definitely overspray with
                      acrylic!
                      From the perspective of a heavy fighter, I would suggest going a
                      different route than paint. Sharpie marker pens are a good grade of
                      leather dye. If you go to a good art supply store, you will find
                      them in at least eight colors and black. For fine work they come in
                      three tip sizes - Fine, Very Fine and Ultra Fine. Using the Very and
                      the Ultra, you can fill in the lines on Tandy and LF alphabet and
                      pictorial stamps for wonderful effects. Rather than dying the piece,
                      mix either a dilute solution of Rit or boil extremely strong coffee
                      (Turkish/Greek style) and stain the leather. Tea only seems to work
                      on bleached white leather. Another method is to sun darken the
                      leather first, wet stamp, apply the Sharpie color and then overspray.
                      Oh, and Marks-A-Lot brand marker in brown does a clean and efficient
                      job of edge coating.
                      Also, you might consider the type of favor we sell. All
                      leather, lots of heraldic color (my wife's a herald), states its
                      message and is virtually indestructable. I do a 2" tooled piece
                      using a variety of alphabet fonts and symbols, stain it with heavy
                      pigment antiquing, and add one to three layers of colored suede
                      behind it. It's held together with rivets as sewing would be too
                      slow (and not period) in most venues. I also add a variety of silver
                      embellishments, but I wouldn't suggest it for combat. You'll find a
                      sample at renfavour.com. If you would like a jpeg sample shot of
                      various styles, please email. We also do favours on fir-on pelt for
                      the barbarians out there.
                      For armor, you might consider conveyor belt. There are certain
                      kinds that look exactly like black leather but give much more
                      protection. If you have an industrial belting supplyer, ask for
                      scraps. They're usually helpful or at least point you to the right
                      dumpster. You probably want 3/16" or 1/4" for enough rigidity for
                      lower legs. It rivets like leather but you'll need to drill the
                      holes. It rivets well to both leather and steel.
                      Good luck.

                      Doug Dudley (aka Cynan)
                      favour@...

                      --- In medieval-leather@y..., Lynn Graves <HouseRollingThunder@j...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Thank you all for the advice and the welcome. I think I'm gonna go
                      with
                      > the acrylic paints and see how that works. :-)
                      >
                      > Next question would be ... does any one know where I can get a good
                      > pattern for leg armor ( greeves ) ? I have a pattern for elbow
                      cops and
                      > bracers. Would that work for greeves as well if I modify the
                      length?
                      >
                      > Aislinn
                      > Tribe Rolling Thunder, Sisterhood of the Serpent
                      > The Rolling Thunder web site --
                      > http://www.geocities.com/aislinn0325/drum.htm
                      >
                      > * Ask no more and give no less than honesty, courage, loyalty,
                      > generosity, and fairness. *
                      > ________________________________________________________________
                      > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                      > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                      > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                      > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
                    • Ron Charlotte
                      ... I can only suggest the old standby I used on the pair I still fight in, and have used for several others: Find a pair of trousers that have had it, cut off
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 22, 2001
                        At 02:59 AM 7/21/01 -0500, Aislinn wrote:

                        Next question would be ... does any one know where I can get a good
                        pattern for leg armor ( greeves ) ?  I have a pattern for elbow cops and
                        bracers. Would that work for greeves as well if I modify the length?

                        I can only suggest the old standby I used on the pair I still fight in, and have used for several others:
                        Find a pair of trousers that have had it, cut off the legs well above knee height.  Take that cut off lower leg and slide it onto the lower leg.  Carefully tape completely around to above the knee with duct or masking tape; then draw the desired greave shape directly onto the tape, making allowances for comfort, reinforcement, padding, etc.  It's not a bad idea to wear the regular knee pads while doing this layout.  Cut away the excess.

                        Generally, you can do one leg, and flip the pattern to do the other, but if someone has something odd like a brace, or other difference, one can easily adjust the greave to the custom fit area.

                                 al Thaalibi -- An Crosaire, Trimaris
                                 Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                                 ronch2@... OR afn03234@... 

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