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Re: [medieval-leather] 200+ year old leather box?

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  • Danny McGee
    Can you post a picture? It s kinda tuff to tell by description( 200 year old Native American? 50 year old Moroccan? 6 month old Punjabi???). I ve seen to many
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 1, 2001
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      Can you post a picture? It's kinda tuff to tell by description( 200 year old Native American? 50 year old Moroccan? 6 month old Punjabi???). I've seen to many things sold as 100 year old Lakota that turn out to be made by Boy Scouts in the 50's to venture a guess.
      Good luck
      Danny

      Or you could take it to Antiques Road Show



      Wed, 28 February 2001, grendal@... wrote:

      >
      > Hi,
      > A friend of mine just showed me a phenominal old leather box with
      > delicate hair (and quill?) embroidery. The leather was aged brown but
      > with sections stained red and green. She was wondering if anyone knew
      > of other similar pieces. Her best guess is that the box is 150-200
      > years old based on design motifs (geometrics with heavier
      > hair/quill and floral patterns with white hair) and construction
      > materials (leather over pressed board similar to book covers), but she
      > has not seen any other piece like it. Any info or thoughts would be
      > appreciated.
      >
      > YIS Tarrach
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


      Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
      http://www.shopping.altavista.com
    • grendal@mailandnews.com
      I ll see what I can do. I also gave her the address to this list. Her main area of interest is in native american research and recreation (yes, she s a
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 1, 2001
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        I'll see what I can do. I also gave her the address to this list.
        Her main area of interest is in native american research and
        recreation (yes, she's a buckskinner) and her work and depth of
        knowledge is pretty decent for an amature "experimental
        archeaologist."

        YIS Tarrach

        --- In medieval-leather@y..., Danny McGee <themcgee@a...> wrote:
        > Can you post a picture? It's kinda tuff to tell by description( 200
        year old Native American? 50 year old Moroccan? 6 month old
        Punjabi???). I've seen to many things sold as 100 year old Lakota that
        turn out to be made by Boy Scouts in the 50's to venture a guess.
        > Good luck
        > Danny
        >
        > Or you could take it to Antiques Road Show
        >
        >
        >
        > Wed, 28 February 2001, grendal@m... wrote:
        >
        > >
        > > Hi,
        > > A friend of mine just showed me a phenominal old leather box with
        > > delicate hair (and quill?) embroidery. The leather was aged brown
        but
        > > with sections stained red and green. She was wondering if anyone
        knew
        > > of other similar pieces. Her best guess is that the box is 150-200
        > > years old based on design motifs (geometrics with heavier
        > > hair/quill and floral patterns with white hair) and construction
        > > materials (leather over pressed board similar to book covers), but
        she
        > > has not seen any other piece like it. Any info or thoughts would
        be
        > > appreciated.
        > >
        > > YIS Tarrach
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        > Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
        > http://www.shopping.altavista.com
      • degrugis@fargo.ars.usda.gov
        Clarification on 2 points: 1. I am not a buckskinner any more than the medieval period is the Dark Ages 2. The old leather box is made of pieces of
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 3, 2001
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          Clarification on 2 points:
          1. I am not a "buckskinner" any more than the medieval period is the
          "Dark Ages"
          2. The old leather box is made of pieces of bookcover (kid/sheep veg.
          tanned leather over paperboard core) that have been decorated with
          moosehair embroidery and single line porcupine quillwork. I viewed
          the box with a microscope, doing numerous visual inspections of
          intact, split and otherwise damaged samples of assorted species of
          hair (human, moose, horse, bison) and quills from both bird and
          porcupine. The embroidery and quillwork on the box has an intact layer
          of dust that is many years old. Those on the list who have had the
          opportunity to study at close range old items in museums would
          recognize this "dust" layer. A boy scout project? How many boy
          scouts would even know where to get quills or moosehair, much less
          know what to do with them once they got them? Grendel has kindly
          offered to put pictures on this list when I get the prints back from
          the photographer, which should be within the week.










          --- In medieval-leather@y..., grendal@m... wrote:
          > I'll see what I can do. I also gave her the address to this list.
          > Her main area of interest is in native american research and
          > recreation (yes, she's a buckskinner) and her work and depth of
          > knowledge is pretty decent for an amature "experimental
          > archeaologist."
          >
          > YIS Tarrach
          >
          > --- In medieval-leather@y..., Danny McGee <themcgee@a...> wrote:
          > > Can you post a picture? It's kinda tuff to tell by description(
          200
          > year old Native American? 50 year old Moroccan? 6 month old
          > Punjabi???). I've seen to many things sold as 100 year old Lakota
          that
          > turn out to be made by Boy Scouts in the 50's to venture a guess.
          > > Good luck
          > > Danny
          > >
          > > Or you could take it to Antiques Road Show
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Wed, 28 February 2001, grendal@m... wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Hi,
          > > > A friend of mine just showed me a phenominal old leather box
          with
          > > > delicate hair (and quill?) embroidery. The leather was aged
          brown
          > but
          > > > with sections stained red and green. She was wondering if anyone
          > knew
          > > > of other similar pieces. Her best guess is that the box is
          150-200
          > > > years old based on design motifs (geometrics with heavier
          > > > hair/quill and floral patterns with white hair) and construction
          > > > materials (leather over pressed board similar to book covers),
          but
          > she
          > > > has not seen any other piece like it. Any info or thoughts
          would
          > be
          > > > appreciated.
          > > >
          > > > YIS Tarrach
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > > Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
          > > http://www.shopping.altavista.com
        • jamesahowell@juno.com
          Generally quill work is indicative of an older piece, and fell out of favor when trade beads became available. Moosehair embroidery, if I remember correctly,
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 3, 2001
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            Generally quill work is indicative of an older piece, and fell
            out of favor when trade beads became available. Moosehair embroidery, if
            I remember correctly, could indicate work by any of a number of Northern
            U.S., southern Canadian tribes, particularly in the Great Lakes region.
            Just off hand I would guess pre 1860s. Since a lot of patterns tend to
            be tribe specific, if you find the right person, you should be able to
            get a pretty accurate provenance.

            Regards, Finnr
            Who has been known to do
            recreate other than Vikings from time to time ;-{)>



            On Sat, 03 Mar 2001 21:58:49 -0000 degrugis@... writes:
            > Clarification on 2 points:
            > 1. I am not a "buckskinner" any more than the medieval period is
            > the
            > "Dark Ages"
            > 2. The old leather box is made of pieces of bookcover (kid/sheep
            > veg.
            > tanned leather over paperboard core) that have been decorated with
            > moosehair embroidery and single line porcupine quillwork. I viewed
            >
            > the box with a microscope, doing numerous visual inspections of
            > intact, split and otherwise damaged samples of assorted species of
            > hair (human, moose, horse, bison) and quills from both bird and
            > porcupine. The embroidery and quillwork on the box has an intact
            > layer
            > of dust that is many years old. Those on the list who have had the
            >
            > opportunity to study at close range old items in museums would
            > recognize this "dust" layer. A boy scout project? How many boy
            > scouts would even know where to get quills or moosehair, much less
            > know what to do with them once they got them? Grendel has kindly
            > offered to put pictures on this list when I get the prints back from
            >
            > the photographer, which should be within the week.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In medieval-leather@y..., grendal@m... wrote:
            > > I'll see what I can do. I also gave her the address to this list.
            >
            > > Her main area of interest is in native american research and
            > > recreation (yes, she's a buckskinner) and her work and depth of
            > > knowledge is pretty decent for an amature "experimental
            > > archeaologist."
            > >
            > > YIS Tarrach
            > >
            > > --- In medieval-leather@y..., Danny McGee <themcgee@a...> wrote:
            > > > Can you post a picture? It's kinda tuff to tell by description(
            >
            > 200
            > > year old Native American? 50 year old Moroccan? 6 month old
            > > Punjabi???). I've seen to many things sold as 100 year old Lakota
            >
            > that
            > > turn out to be made by Boy Scouts in the 50's to venture a guess.
            > > > Good luck
            > > > Danny
            > > >
            > > > Or you could take it to Antiques Road Show
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Wed, 28 February 2001, grendal@m... wrote:
            > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi,
            > > > > A friend of mine just showed me a phenominal old leather box
            > with
            > > > > delicate hair (and quill?) embroidery. The leather was aged
            > brown
            > > but
            > > > > with sections stained red and green. She was wondering if
            > anyone
            > > knew
            > > > > of other similar pieces. Her best guess is that the box is
            > 150-200
            > > > > years old based on design motifs (geometrics with heavier
            > > > > hair/quill and floral patterns with white hair) and
            > construction
            > > > > materials (leather over pressed board similar to book covers),
            >
            > but
            > > she
            > > > > has not seen any other piece like it. Any info or thoughts
            > would
            > > be
            > > > > appreciated.
            > > > >
            > > > > YIS Tarrach
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
            > > > http://www.shopping.altavista.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >


            "Better is alive than lifeless to be; the living can always get a cow.
            The halt can ride a horse, the hand-less drive a flock, the deaf can
            bravely battle.
            A blind man is better than a burned one; a corpse is useless to all."
            Havamal
          • rmhowe
            ... See Book of Buckskinning VII for the best article on such things. Pp. 198-221 is on the Goods of the Trunk Maker and his Trade By Steven M. Lailoff.
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 6, 2001
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              grendal@... wrote:
              >
              > Hi,
              > A friend of mine just showed me a phenominal old leather box with
              > delicate hair (and quill?) embroidery. The leather was aged brown but
              > with sections stained red and green. She was wondering if anyone knew
              > of other similar pieces. Her best guess is that the box is 150-200
              > years old based on design motifs (geometrics with heavier
              > hair/quill and floral patterns with white hair) and construction
              > materials (leather over pressed board similar to book covers), but she
              > has not seen any other piece like it. Any info or thoughts would be
              > appreciated.
              >
              > YIS Tarrach

              See Book of Buckskinning VII for the best article on such things.
              Pp. 198-221 is on the Goods of the Trunk Maker and his Trade
              By Steven M. Lailoff. "Descriptions and photographs of original
              Trunks, deed boxes and chests".
              Also a number of color plates in the plate section.
              Still in print, but Copyright 1995 by Scurlock Publishing Co. Inc.
              Rt. 5, Box 347-M, Texarkana, TX 75501 ISBN 1880655055
              No price listed on this one. Usually about twenty dollars these days.

              Magnus
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