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[medieval-leather] Lasts?

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  • Anna Troy
    Hi again, I was just wondering if anybody knows of any info in printed or on-line form about how you sew on a last. You guys who learned how to, how did you
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 1, 1999
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      Hi again, I was just wondering if anybody knows of any info in printed or
      on-line form about how you sew on a last. You guys who learned how to, how
      did you get your info? I'm kind of stuck on that point.

      Thanks in advance and if you've already discussd this in great detail
      please refer me to when and I'll go look it up in the archives.

      Anna




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    • Anna Troy
      A tip. I was at the Museum of London in July and the had Shoes and Pattens on sale for £7.90 You bet I grabbed a copy! If your really lucky mabe they have
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 1, 1999
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        A tip. I was at the Museum of London in July and the had "Shoes and
        Pattens" on sale for £7.90 You bet I grabbed a copy! If your really lucky
        mabe they have one or two left.

        Anna


        At 00:54 1999-10-01 -0500, you wrote:
        <snip>
        >Later on this sort of sewing was done with a glover's needle with a
        >square cross section (and that may have been how they were done in the
        >middle ages - I haven't had much of a chance to examine sewing holes
        >on
        >uppers for myself -- although I just got my tickets for London today
        >:) )
        >
        >Marc
        >





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      • Marc Carlson
        ... I don t think so. What seems to be the problem? (I m not an expert with a last, but am getting better) Marc
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 1, 1999
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          At 09:11 AM 10/1/99 +0200, Anna Troy wrote:
          >Hi again, I was just wondering if anybody knows of any info in printed or
          >on-line form about how you sew on a last. You guys who learned how to, how
          >did you get your info? I'm kind of stuck on that point.
          >
          >Thanks in advance and if you've already discussd this in great detail
          >please refer me to when and I'll go look it up in the archives.

          I don't think so. What seems to be the problem? (I'm not an expert with a
          last, but am getting better)

          Marc
        • Anne-Marie Rousseau
          howdy from Anne-Marie ... Cool! A picture really is worth 1000 words, isnt it? :) I m heading to MacPhereson leather tonight to see if they have anything like
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 1, 1999
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            howdy from Anne-Marie
            Marc sez:
            >I've uploaded a jpg of the needle I'm talking about to the Vault
            >(Mort.jpg). I don't use a needle holder. The cross section of
            >the blade is triangular. If you can find one with an oval cross
            >section, that's even better. (The second best "awl" I've tried for
            >this part of sewing is a flattish dental scraping tool)

            Cool! A picture really is worth 1000 words, isnt it? :) I'm heading to
            MacPhereson leather tonight to see if they have anything like that.

            So it doesnt HAVE a cutting edge? I thought when you said I wanted a
            glovers needle, that I'd want a cutting edge (which would negate the need
            for an awl?)

            >Later on this sort of sewing was done with a glover's needle with a
            >square cross section (and that may have been how they were done in the
            >middle ages - I haven't had much of a chance to examine sewing holes
            >on
            >uppers for myself -- although I just got my tickets for London today
            >:) )
            >

            Lucky duck! Are you going to have a chance to chat with our favorite York
            Archeological guy? :)

            --AM. who goes to Paris next year to look on the underside of furniture in
            the Cluny :)
          • Marc Carlson
            ... Sometimes. Sometimes pictures just confuse the issue, but in this case, it does help. (words AND pictures are a great team) ... This may go back to the
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 1, 1999
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              >howdy from Anne-Marie
              >Cool! A picture really is worth 1000 words, isnt it? :) I'm heading to
              >MacPhereson leather tonight to see if they have anything like that.

              Sometimes. Sometimes pictures just confuse the issue, but in this case,
              it does help. (words AND pictures are a great team)

              >So it doesnt HAVE a cutting edge? I thought when you said I wanted a
              >glovers needle, that I'd want a cutting edge (which would negate the need
              >for an awl?)

              This may go back to the old difference of opinion about whether awls and
              glover's needles need to merely have a sharp point, or a whole cutting edge
              (the "push the material aside" or "cut the material" schism). At this stage,
              I can not in good conscience say that the other guys are "wrong", but they
              definately use a different technique than I do. I have never used a glover's
              needle or an awl that I could cut myself with, although I have stabbed myself
              with them more often than I care to admit. The fact that most closing awls
              are oval in cross-section suggests that for these stitches, moving the leather
              aside from the hole is acceptable (and considering that there is little enough
              material to work with, keeping as much of it intact makes more sense to me)

              >Lucky duck! Are you going to have a chance to chat with our favorite York
              >Archeological guy? :)

              With any luck, I'm hoping to get to see both Ian and Melanie.

              Marc
            • Anna Troy
              Well basicly I have no idea where to start. I have a fair idea how to make a last but the rest is about as clear as mud. I have some idea that you nail the
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 1, 1999
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                Well basicly I have no idea where to start. I have a fair idea how to make
                a last but the rest is about as clear as mud. I have some idea that you
                nail the leather top on the last but that's about it. I'm also the kind of
                person that likes to have fairly good theoretical grasp of how something is
                done before I start so i have a tendancy to try to read everythign I can
                get my hands on before I try something new. The best thing would be if I
                take a course somewhere I suppose. Do they have that kind of thing in the
                States or England somewhere do you think? I haven't found anything in
                Sweden yet.

                Anna, who's next commision will be a pair of viking shoes in exchanges for
                some archers knees and spaulders.

                At 09:56 1999-10-01 -0500, you wrote:
                >
                >I don't think so. What seems to be the problem? (I'm not an expert with a
                >last, but am getting better)
                >
                >Marc
                >
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              • Marc Carlson
                ... There must be something out there. Let me see, go ahead and get what you can from the people around here. I ll send you a zipfile by private mail that has
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 1, 1999
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                  At 06:30 PM 10/1/99 +0200, Anna wrote:
                  >Well basicly I have no idea where to start. I have a fair idea how to make
                  >a last but the rest is about as clear as mud. I have some idea that you
                  >nail the leather top on the last but that's about it. I'm also the kind of
                  >person that likes to have fairly good theoretical grasp of how something is
                  >done before I start so i have a tendancy to try to read everythign I can
                  >get my hands on before I try something new. The best thing would be if I
                  >take a course somewhere I suppose. Do they have that kind of thing in the
                  >States or England somewhere do you think? I haven't found anything in
                  >Sweden yet.

                  There must be something out there.

                  Let me see, go ahead and get what you can from the people around here.
                  I'll send
                  you a zipfile by private mail that has some of the material that hasn't
                  gotten posted
                  to my shoe site (I only sent it to him on the 12th) yet. Then we'll ask
                  about shoes in
                  Sweden for you.

                  Marc
                • Uilliam@aol.com
                  In a message dated 10/01/99 02:13:03 AM, you wrote:
                  Message 8 of 25 , Oct 2, 1999
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                    In a message dated 10/01/99 02:13:03 AM, you wrote:

                    <<Hi again, I was just wondering if anybody knows of any info in printed or
                    on-line form about how you sew on a last. You guys who learned how to, how
                    did you get your info? I'm kind of stuck on that point.>>

                    Look for a copy of R. A. Salaman's Dictionary of Leatherworking Tools from
                    1700-1950. Has some good illustrations of techniques used to sew on lasts.

                    I learned from a class that was offered at a SCA collegium about 4 years ago.
                    I usually tack the sole to the bottom of the last then last the closed upper
                    over the sole by lacing it onto the last. After the upper is dry I remove the
                    lacing and trim the lasting margin flush with the sole. I will usually place
                    several "basting" (make a hole with your awl and pass a short lenght of
                    thread through the hole and tye an slip knot) threads around the sole to hold
                    the upper in plase while I sew it to the sole. If your last has a hole in it
                    for use on a last stand use that. If not make a strap about one inch wide and
                    about one foot longer than twice the heigth of your knee from the floor in a
                    seated position with a buckle at one end. Buckle the strap and place it over
                    the last which is placed on your knees. The lower end of the loop is placed
                    over a short board that is held down by your feet thus exerting pressure on
                    the last which hold it firmly to your knees. This method work quite well and
                    allows you adjust the last to whatever angle you need for the stitching
                    process. Hope this is helpful

                    Uilliam
                  • Tanglust@aol.com
                    Kind Gentles, I am new to this list and have a question.....What is a Last? Tanglust
                    Message 9 of 25 , Oct 4, 1999
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                      Kind Gentles,

                      I am new to this list and have a question.....What is a Last?

                      Tanglust
                    • Anna Troy
                      A last is usually a block of wood that has been shaped after the inner shape of the shoe wanted. The leather is then sewn together on the last. Anna ...
                      Message 10 of 25 , Oct 4, 1999
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                        A last is usually a block of wood that has been shaped after the inner
                        shape of the shoe wanted. The leather is then sewn together on the last.

                        Anna

                        At 14:41 1999-10-04 -0400, you wrote:
                        >Kind Gentles,
                        >
                        >I am new to this list and have a question.....What is a Last?
                        >
                        >Tanglust
                        >
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                        >
                        >eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/medieval-leather
                        >http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >




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                        "Anna's Crafts Links Page" has MOVED! to
                        http://hem.fyristorg.com/owly/crafts

                        "The Shire of Aros"
                        http://hem.passagen.se/owly/index2.html
                      • Marc Carlson
                        ... Or, it can be used to stretch out a previously made shoe as well... Marc
                        Message 11 of 25 , Oct 4, 1999
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                          Anna Troy wrote:
                          > A last is usually a block of wood that has been shaped after the inner
                          > shape of the shoe wanted. The leather is then sewn together on the > last.

                          Or, it can be used to stretch out a previously made shoe as well...

                          Marc
                        • Tim Bray
                          RE: Marc s response re: attaching straps with the S&P method: I did this on the last pair of shoes I made for Keegan - don t know if you got a good look at
                          Message 12 of 25 , Oct 16, 1999
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                            RE: Marc's response re: attaching straps with the S&P method:
                            I did this on the last pair of shoes I made for Keegan - don't know if you
                            got a good look at them at Peronne. Works great. I cut the end in a sort
                            of spade- shape to make it easier to push through the slit. Much faster
                            and easier than stitching. Maybe that's why they did it?

                            I also do this for belt buckles now. Not only easier than stitching, it's
                            also easier to undo if you need to repair or replace the buckle. No more
                            rivets! Yay!

                            In case it's not clear, you make a small slit in the strap, about where you
                            would have been stitching the end down, and then you push the end of the
                            strap through the slit (after going around the buckle, of course). The
                            barbed end catches and holds on the back side of the strap.

                            You also use this method to attach the straps themselves to the shoes.
                            Both straps - the one with the buckle and the one that goes through it.

                            Once you get the hang of cutting the barbs and slits, this is really fast
                            and just, well, cool.

                            Tim


                            >>also, any ideas on how to attatch the buckles? I figure I need to sew the
                            >>leather bits on, but on the inside, or the outside?
                            >
                            >Maybe not (although sewing makes a lot of sense). If you look at the
                            >examples in
                            >S&P, the leather pits usually slip through a slit in the upper, and once
                            >inside
                            >they expand. The one I was looking at last night was
                            > __________
                            > ________________\ |
                            > ________________ |
                            > /_________|
                            >
                            >Or something to that effect.
                            >
                            >The theory is that the wider leather won't pull through the upper (although
                            >to be honest, I'd
                            >be inclined to toss in a couple of the same whip stitches from above to
                            >hold things down). In
                            >some of the German boots they do the sewing down also.
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