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[medieval-leather] Re: Does anyone know?

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  • Ian Carlisle
    It is according to the sources I use. But there is no universal terminology unfortunately. Where did you find your reference? Ian ... Ian Carlisle Artefact
    Message 1 of 28 , Jul 1, 1999
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      It is according to the sources I use. But there is no universal
      terminology unfortunately. Where did you find your reference?

      Ian


      > <Ian>
      > >BTW - I believe a "counter" is a heel reinforcement attached
      > >outside the upper, while a stiffener is stitched inside.
      >
      > Um, no.
      >
      > Counter (Backstrap/Heel Stiffener)
      > 1. A piece of leather or other material used as a stiffener or
      > internal reinforcement to the quarters (or the heel area). It is most
      > often sewn inside the shoe. In medieval shoes this is by means of a
      > whipstitch, leaving a scalloped effect on the leather, which is generally
      > invisible from the outside. Later, after the introduction of shoe liners,
      > these were inserted between the lining and outer material of the upper.
      > Even later they were stitched to the outside of the quarters.
      > 2. Some references seem to use this term to refer to any internal
      > reinforcement.
      >
      > (the problem is that there is a growing body of archaeological material
      > that uses the terminology different from traditional shoemakers)\
      >
      > Marc
      >
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      Ian Carlisle
      Artefact Research
      York Archaeological Trust
      01904 663034

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    • Marc Carlson
      ... The definitions I quoted were Thornton and Swann. DA Saguto s (as yet unfinished*) glossary refers to counters as 1. Exterior portion of the upper of a
      Message 2 of 28 , Jul 1, 1999
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        At 09:31 AM 7/1/99 +0100, you wrote:
        >It is according to the sources I use. But there is no universal
        >terminology unfortunately. Where did you find your reference?

        The definitions I quoted were Thornton and Swann.

        DA Saguto's (as yet unfinished*) glossary refers to "counters" as
        1. Exterior portion of the upper of a boot approximating the position of the
        "quarter" (q.v.) in the shoe, which covers the actual stiffener (q.v.)
        underneath
        2. An added stiffener, either inside or outside, in the "quarter" of a shoe
        3. A heel stiffener.

        (*I know it's unfinished because I'm typing it. Saguto is the Master
        Cordwainer for Colonial Williamsburg, and a recognized authority on the
        history of shoemaking)

        As for the universal terminology, I don't care about that right now. I'm
        working on a lexicon of the different terms used by different people. The
        definition you use is a commonly used one.

        Marc

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