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[medieval-leather] Wisby armour (A question of variety)

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  • Matt Larsen
    ... Uh... I believe that the battle occured between the army of the Danish King, Valdemar and the rural population of Gotland. The people of Visby, mostly
    Message 1 of 7 , Apr 29, 1999
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      Alex Kharnam writes:
      > >Just look at the wide range of styles/designs of the Wisby armour. All
      > from
      > >one village, but incrediblly diverse.
      > >
      > >Gregory
      > >
      >
      > EEEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      >
      > I have just got to jump on this one.
      >
      > To the best of my knowledge Wisby armour was not made in Wisby.
      > All surviving examples are leftovers from a beasty called "The Battle Of
      > Wisby". this was basically a siege that attracted mercenaries from all over
      > Europe. The siege failed to take the town and the dead besiegers were buried
      > in a mass grave after the villagers looted the field for three full days.

      Uh... I believe that the battle occured between the army of the Danish
      King, Valdemar and the rural population of Gotland. The people of
      Visby, mostly Hansiatic traders, did not fight in the battle. The
      farmers had come to Visby in hopes of persuading the town to join
      forces with them and stand off a seige by the Danes, but the townfolk
      refused. The battle took place near the town and the Danish army,
      being professional soldiers, won handily. The townfolk opened their
      gates and paid ransom to avoid the same fate (which I'm sure they
      perfered...).

      At least that's my understanding of what happened.

      > In short the armour that we have from Wisby is the stuff that the locals
      > considered too crappy (or too damaged) to take (despite a need for plate
      > armour that would have seemed somewhat immediate in the wake of a siege).

      The Danes supposedly weren't very interested in the antiquated armor
      that the people of Gotland had available to them, presumably because
      they already had better equipment. Also, they were busy dealing with
      the town for several days (three days sticks in my mind, but I'm not
      sure), and at that point the bodies really needed burying.

      > The variety to be found in wisby armour is not all that great anyway.

      True, it's essentially all early brigandine, with the difference being
      the size and shape of the plates. And, for the obligitory reference
      to leather :-) it is supposed to all have been mounted on leather.

      Matt Larsen/Geoffrey Mathias
      --



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    • Alex Kharnam
      ... from ... EEEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have just got to jump on this one. To the best of my knowledge Wisby armour was not made in Wisby. All surviving examples
      Message 2 of 7 , Apr 29, 1999
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        >Just look at the wide range of styles/designs of the Wisby armour. All
        from
        >one village, but incrediblly diverse.
        >
        >Gregory
        >

        EEEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        I have just got to jump on this one.

        To the best of my knowledge Wisby armour was not made in Wisby.
        All surviving examples are leftovers from a beasty called "The Battle Of
        Wisby". this was basically a siege that attracted mercenaries from all over
        Europe. The siege failed to take the town and the dead besiegers were buried
        in a mass grave after the villagers looted the field for three full days.

        In short the armour that we have from Wisby is the stuff that the locals
        considered too crappy (or too damaged) to take (despite a need for plate
        armour that would have seemed somewhat immediate in the wake of a siege).

        The variety to be found in wisby armour is not all that great anyway.
        You would have seen a great deal more variety at say The field of the Cloth
        Of Gold tourneys.

        Sasha




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      • Gregory Stapleton
        Cool. And what I ment by variety is that if you look at the coats of plate, no two are exactly alike. In fact, most are very different from one another in
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 29, 1999
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          Cool. And what I ment by variety is that if you look at the coats of plate,
          no two are exactly alike. In fact, most are very different from one another
          in the design and layout of the plates. Sorry I wasn't more specific
          earlier.

          Gregory

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Alex Kharnam [mailto:akharnam@...]
          > Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 12:27 AM
          > To: medieval-leather@egroups.com
          > Subject: [medieval-leather] Re: Wisby armour (A question of variety)
          >
          >
          > >Uh... I believe that the battle occured between the army of the Danish
          > >King, Valdemar and the rural population of Gotland. The people of
          > >Visby, mostly Hansiatic traders, did not fight in the battle. The
          > >farmers had come to Visby in hopes of persuading the town to join
          > >forces with them and stand off a seige by the Danes, but the townfolk
          > >refused. The battle took place near the town and the Danish army,
          > >being professional soldiers, won handily. The townfolk opened their
          > >gates and paid ransom to avoid the same fate (which I'm sure they
          > >perfered...).
          > >
          > >At least that's my understanding of what happened.
          > >Matt Larsen/Geoffrey Mathias
          > >--
          >
          > Okay, okay....I have been well and truly told :)
          >
          > My memory of the entire thing is a bit hazy (the story was told at a 4am
          > armouring session about ten years ago when I was just a newbie
          > preparing for
          > my first real war.
          >
          > Thank you for the real info.
          >
          > Sasha.
          >
          >
          >
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          >


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        • Alex Kharnam
          ... Okay, okay....I have been well and truly told :) My memory of the entire thing is a bit hazy (the story was told at a 4am armouring session about ten
          Message 4 of 7 , Apr 29, 1999
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            >Uh... I believe that the battle occured between the army of the Danish
            >King, Valdemar and the rural population of Gotland. The people of
            >Visby, mostly Hansiatic traders, did not fight in the battle. The
            >farmers had come to Visby in hopes of persuading the town to join
            >forces with them and stand off a seige by the Danes, but the townfolk
            >refused. The battle took place near the town and the Danish army,
            >being professional soldiers, won handily. The townfolk opened their
            >gates and paid ransom to avoid the same fate (which I'm sure they
            >perfered...).
            >
            >At least that's my understanding of what happened.
            >Matt Larsen/Geoffrey Mathias
            >--

            Okay, okay....I have been well and truly told :)

            My memory of the entire thing is a bit hazy (the story was told at a 4am
            armouring session about ten years ago when I was just a newbie preparing for
            my first real war.

            Thank you for the real info.

            Sasha.



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          • Ian Carlisle
            ... There we are - I was right all along! Ian Ian Carlisle Artefact Research York Archaeological Trust 01904 663034 ... eGroup home:
            Message 5 of 7 , Apr 30, 1999
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              On 29 Apr 99 at 9:26, Matt Larsen wrote:

              > Alex Kharnam writes:

              > > The variety to be found in wisby armour is not all that great anyway.
              >
              There we are - I was right all along!

              Ian


              Ian Carlisle
              Artefact Research
              York Archaeological Trust
              01904 663034

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            • Ian Carlisle
              ... Again, my point was that the differences are in the detail. The basic garments are all very similar. Ian Ian Carlisle Artefact Research York Archaeological
              Message 6 of 7 , Apr 30, 1999
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                On 29 Apr 99 at 22:41, Gregory Stapleton wrote:

                > Cool. And what I ment by variety is that if you look at the coats of plate,
                > no two are exactly alike. In fact, most are very different from one another
                > in the design and layout of the plates. Sorry I wasn't more specific
                > earlier.
                >
                > Gregory
                >

                Again, my point was that the differences are in the detail. The basic
                garments are all very similar.

                Ian


                Ian Carlisle
                Artefact Research
                York Archaeological Trust
                01904 663034

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              • rmhowe
                ... Having read the books I d have to say that there is quite a bit of difference in the simplicity / complexity / amount of effort going into different types
                Message 7 of 7 , May 2 9:59 AM
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                  Ian Carlisle wrote:
                  >
                  > On 29 Apr 99 at 9:26, Matt Larsen wrote:
                  >
                  > > Alex Kharnam writes:
                  >
                  > > > The variety to be found in wisby armour is not all that great anyway.
                  > >
                  > There we are - I was right all along!
                  >
                  > Ian

                  Having read the books I'd have to say that there is quite a bit of
                  difference in the simplicity / complexity / amount of effort going
                  into different types of Wisby armor. The books also contained a
                  basic history of lamellar armor.
                  See:
                  http://www.archaeology.usyd.edu.au/~earl/wisby/main.htm

                  Now the type we use a lot in this area is Wisby I with removable
                  plates in pockets so that the items may be cleaned. We don't need
                  no stinking fighters. Too easy to find them in the woods battles,
                  and they're no fun at feast unless you hose them down.

                  Magnus

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