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Vinegar black/vinegaroon

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  • Ginny Phillips
    Hi, Folks, I know that there has been discussion here on the use of vinegaroon/vinegar black in the middle ages. Does anyone have good documentation for it. I
    Message 1 of 3 , May 13, 2012
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      Hi, Folks,

      I know that there has been discussion here on the use of vinegaroon/vinegar black in the middle ages. Does anyone have good documentation for it. I seem to be turning up only anecdotal references.

      Thanks!

      Gillian


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ron Charlotte
      It s been awhile since this one was asked, but I have at least one valid answer. Recipe #168 from _The Plitcho_(LOC# 68-18235), a dyers manual from 1548.
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 3, 2012
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        It's been awhile since this one was asked, but I
        have at least one valid answer.

        Recipe #168 from _The Plitcho_(LOC# 68-18235), a
        dyers manual from 1548. This comes from a
        version published by MIT in 1968 that includes
        the original Italian text in facsimile. The last
        section of the book has numerous leather tanning and dying recipies.

        "To dye skins in black color.
        Measure one pound of crushed gallnuts that is
        pestled. Make it boil at least one hour, and
        then take it from the fire. With a brush give it
        two strokes per skin of the said water and leave
        it to dry in the shade. When they are dry, take
        again of this water and with the brush return to
        dye them. Then having done this, take some
        vinegar, very strong, and make it boil with some
        rusty iron inside so that the iron was not good
        for any other service, and that the vinegar be
        two or three fingers above the iron. When it has
        boiled four hours take it from the fire and allow
        to cool. Then with this boiled vinegar give two
        or more hands to the above said skins with the
        brush and set them in the shade. Take the
        polisher and stroke them that they become black, very black."

        Since most of the accompanying tanning recipes
        are alum based or alum/oil they were using the
        gall nut liquid to put tannin in the leather for
        the rusty vinegar to react with. I've used this
        recipe on oak tan leather and gotten a pretty
        good black after a couple of coats. The reaction
        continues awhile, and the belt I did this with
        originally actually got darker over the course of
        about a week. Since some tannages are lighter
        than others, even veg-tan leather might benefit
        from the additional tannin. i've not tried that, yet.

        At 10:01 PM 5/13/2012, you wrote:
        >
        >
        >Hi, Folks,
        >
        >I know that there has been discussion here on
        >the use of vinegaroon/vinegar black in the
        >middle ages. Does anyone have good documentation
        >for it. I seem to be turning up only anecdotal references.
        >
        >Thanks!
        >
        >Gillian
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >

        Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
        ronch2@... OR afn03234@...

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ginny Phillips
        Thank you for posting this! I have been away from email for a while, sorry for the delay in my reply. Gillian ________________________________ From: Ron
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 5, 2012
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          Thank you for posting this!
          I have been away from email for a while, sorry for the delay in my reply.

          Gillian



          ________________________________
          From: Ron Charlotte <ronch2@...>
          To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 4:53 PM
          Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Vinegar black/vinegaroon


           
          It's been awhile since this one was asked, but I
          have at least one valid answer.

          Recipe #168 from _The Plitcho_(LOC# 68-18235), a
          dyers manual from 1548. This comes from a
          version published by MIT in 1968 that includes
          the original Italian text in facsimile. The last
          section of the book has numerous leather tanning and dying recipies.

          "To dye skins in black color.
          Measure one pound of crushed gallnuts that is
          pestled. Make it boil at least one hour, and
          then take it from the fire. With a brush give it
          two strokes per skin of the said water and leave
          it to dry in the shade. When they are dry, take
          again of this water and with the brush return to
          dye them. Then having done this, take some
          vinegar, very strong, and make it boil with some
          rusty iron inside so that the iron was not good
          for any other service, and that the vinegar be
          two or three fingers above the iron. When it has
          boiled four hours take it from the fire and allow
          to cool. Then with this boiled vinegar give two
          or more hands to the above said skins with the
          brush and set them in the shade. Take the
          polisher and stroke them that they become black, very black."

          Since most of the accompanying tanning recipes
          are alum based or alum/oil they were using the
          gall nut liquid to put tannin in the leather for
          the rusty vinegar to react with. I've used this
          recipe on oak tan leather and gotten a pretty
          good black after a couple of coats. The reaction
          continues awhile, and the belt I did this with
          originally actually got darker over the course of
          about a week. Since some tannages are lighter
          than others, even veg-tan leather might benefit
          from the additional tannin. i've not tried that, yet.

          At 10:01 PM 5/13/2012, you wrote:
          >
          >
          >Hi, Folks,
          >
          >I know that there has been discussion here on
          >the use of vinegaroon/vinegar black in the
          >middle ages. Does anyone have good documentation
          >for it. I seem to be turning up only anecdotal references.
          >
          >Thanks!
          >
          >Gillian
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >

          Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
          ronch2@... OR afn03234@...

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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