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Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Looking for Leather Carving Examples

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  • Joe Reiter
    I have replicated some of the bags from that book. It s a good place to get a grasp on the leather work of that time. Sent from my iPhone ... [Non-text
    Message 1 of 24 , Jan 10, 2012
      I have replicated some of the bags from that book. It's a good place to get a grasp on the leather work of that time.

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Jan 10, 2012, at 8:31 AM, "barry hicks" <barryehicks@...> wrote:

      > Hmmm I don't have all my resources in a row. I will try and get back to this in a few days.
      >
      > This is something that I plan on doing this year. :) I am currently going to be teaching a few simple purse designs. 'Purses in Pieces' is a great book to look at. It does have some good examples. One of the best images in the book can be found at the Metropolitan Museum of Arts catalog. It is a Girdle purse used by men (all Girdle purses were used by men). http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/170018848?rpp=20&pg=1&ft=leather+purse&when=A.D.+1400-1600&pos=3 Please keep in mind that this is a bit later than you are looking for but it is a good example (one of the rare ones to have stayed in such good shape).
      >
      > You can find more items in the Victoria and Albert catalog http://collections.vam.ac.uk/
      >
      > That's a good starting point. I also suggest looking under books.google.com Type in leather and a lot will come up... much of it is free. They have a good bit of info in there. Anotehr good book is 'All Things Medieval' http://books.google.com/books?id=yPcIuJ5TNxMC You have to buy the book but can preview it on books.google .
      >
      > This gentleman has a picture on of his site of a tooled bag that may be of interest as well. http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/toolingclass.html
      >
      > oh yes, and as for tools. They have changed very little from medieval times. Here's a link to another gentleman's site which has some wonderful information on leather working tools. http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/plwt.html
      >
      > Hope this helps some!
      >
      > YiS,
      >
      > Barry
      >
      > --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, Fuersty@... wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Greetings,
      > >
      > > First off I just want to thank everyone that contributes on this list and with every set of posts I learn something new. I've been doing leather carving as a hobby for 30+ years, but most of what I know are modern techniques so this list has been very educational.
      > >
      > > Now the reason for my post today is that I've been asked to teach a class on early period leather carving, meaning 10th century and earlier. The class will be a combination of historical information along with some hands-on leather carving. Now I've seen a few examples in books, but have very little knowledge in this area. I'm hoping that a few of you might be able to point me to some good reference materials or have specific knowledge that may be helpful.
      > >
      > > I'm looking for Web links or Book references on:
      > > - Leather Dyes and what they were made from
      > > - Pictures of tooled leather (especially if it would be Norse related)
      > > - Pictures of the actual tools/punches that may have been used
      > >
      > > Any information would be greatly appreciated, thanks,
      > >
      > > Tim
      > > fuersty (at) AOL (dot) com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Fuersty@aol.com
      Thanks everyone, for the information you ve been sending about sites and resources... this is very helpful. I ve always been interested in the eary peroid
      Message 2 of 24 , Jan 10, 2012
        Thanks everyone, for the information you've been sending about sites and resources... this is very helpful. I've always been interested in the eary peroid history, but have never thought about the 'how it was done' part of this craft. So this is giving me kind of a crash course, which is great!

        Thanks Much,
        Tim

        P.S.
        I've been asked to present this class at an Early Period SCA event, should be fun.




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • AlbionWood
        Greetings Tim, The good news is, there is so little published material on Early Medieval leather decoration, it won t take you very long to read it all and be
        Message 3 of 24 , Jan 10, 2012
          Greetings Tim,

          The good news is, there is so little published material on Early
          Medieval leather decoration, it won't take you very long to read it all
          and be done with that stage of research. More good news: What you
          really need to do is go to Europe and visit some museums where they have
          surviving pieces, and see firsthand how they were decorated. Bad news:
          Airfare is expensive.

          We've had many discussions here over the years about leather dyes, and
          99% of them have been speculation. We all know what kinds of dyes
          _could have been_ applied to leather, but we have very little - if any -
          actual evidence to show that dyes actually were used on leather,
          especially from the Early Medieval period. Pretty much all the
          surviving leather scraps and objects from that period are black, from
          age and burial; it's impossible to know from observation whether they
          were originally dyed or not. Modern technology might answer the
          question, but AFAIK it hasn't been attempted. We do have considerable
          evidence for _painted_ leather, though most of that is from outside your
          period of interest.

          We should be able to come up with some pictures of decorated objects.
          Perhaps the best-documented early tooled-leather pieces are the Irish
          book-satchels ("budgets") described by Waterer; the complete article is
          now available online as a PDF, but I don't have a good link - Google
          "Irish book satchels" and it should come up. Also you might profitably
          spend some time searching the UK Archaeology Data Service site:
          http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/

          More later - gotta go now.
          Cheers,
          Tim


          On 1/9/2012 7:36 AM, Fuersty@... wrote:
          >
          > Greetings,
          >
          > First off I just want to thank everyone that contributes on this list and with every set of posts I learn something new. I've been doing leather carving as a hobby for 30+ years, but most of what I know are modern techniques so this list has been very educational.
          >
          > Now the reason for my post today is that I've been asked to teach a class on early period leather carving, meaning 10th century and earlier. The class will be a combination of historical information along with some hands-on leather carving. Now I've seen a few examples in books, but have very little knowledge in this area. I'm hoping that a few of you might be able to point me to some good reference materials or have specific knowledge that may be helpful.
          >
          > I'm looking for Web links or Book references on:
          > - Leather Dyes and what they were made from
          > - Pictures of tooled leather (especially if it would be Norse related)
          > - Pictures of the actual tools/punches that may have been used
          >
          > Any information would be greatly appreciated, thanks,
          >
          > Tim
          > fuersty (at) AOL (dot) com
          >
        • Lh
          P in p is good but latter in period. I have a good biblio at home on earlier sources. Look at the York archeological trust. Search on Iona finds and the Royal
          Message 4 of 24 , Jan 10, 2012
            P in p is good but latter in period. I have a good biblio at home on earlier sources. Look at the York archeological trust. Search on Iona finds and the Royal Irish Academy has wonderful books on that time. John H Watterer has lots of books and articles with pics but he is harder to get. The national history museum in Dublin has good displays. Look in livinghistory.ie and go in the early medieval section. As for dyes that was later than the 10th c. Colors were painted on during that time. Hard to find evidence except mentions by Elizabeth Ocasha in her papers. The book Sheath and Scabbards 400 to 1000 has a small section on it.
            Seathrun
          • Diane Sawyer Dooley
            Is the leather book from York still available for free? Tasha
            Message 5 of 24 , Jan 10, 2012
              Is the leather book from York still available for free?


              Tasha

              >________________________________
              > From: Lh <sethrun.magaoinghous@...>
              >To: "medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com" <medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com>
              >Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 12:12 PM
              >Subject: [medieval-leather] Re: Looking for Leather Carving Examples
              >
              >

              >P in p is good but latter in period. I have a good biblio at home on earlier sources. Look at the York archeological trust. Search on Iona finds and the Royal Irish Academy has wonderful books on that time. John H Watterer has lots of books and articles with pics but he is harder to get. The national history museum in Dublin has good displays. Look in livinghistory.ie and go in the early medieval section. As for dyes that was later than the 10th c. Colors were painted on during that time. Hard to find evidence except mentions by Elizabeth Ocasha in her papers. The book Sheath and Scabbards 400 to 1000 has a small section on it.
              >Seathrun
              >
              >
              >
            • bigfooted rockmidget
              You mean this one? The Archaeology of York 17/16 Leather and Leatherworking in Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York by Quita Mould, Ian Carlisle and Esther
              Message 6 of 24 , Jan 10, 2012
                You mean this one?

                The Archaeology of York 17/16

                Leather and Leatherworking in Anglo-Scandinavian and Medieval York

                by Quita Mould, Ian Carlisle and Esther Cameron
                It is here:
                http://www.yorkarchaeology.co.uk/resources/pubs_archive.htm


                To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                From: tasha_medvedeva@...
                Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 09:20:11 -0800
                Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Looking for Leather Carving Examples




























                Is the leather book from York still available for free?



                Tasha



                >________________________________

                > From: Lh <sethrun.magaoinghous@...>

                >To: "medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com" <medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com>

                >Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 12:12 PM

                >Subject: [medieval-leather] Re: Looking for Leather Carving Examples

                >

                >

                >

                >P in p is good but latter in period. I have a good biblio at home on earlier sources. Look at the York archeological trust. Search on Iona finds and the Royal Irish Academy has wonderful books on that time. John H Watterer has lots of books and articles with pics but he is harder to get. The national history museum in Dublin has good displays. Look in livinghistory.ie and go in the early medieval section. As for dyes that was later than the 10th c. Colors were painted on during that time. Hard to find evidence except mentions by Elizabeth Ocasha in her papers. The book Sheath and Scabbards 400 to 1000 has a small section on it.

                >Seathrun

                >

                >

                >
















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • bigfooted rockmidget
                The leather binding of the gospel of St. Cuthbert has survived in its entirety (together with the rest of the book). It is made of dyed red goat leather with
                Message 7 of 24 , Jan 10, 2012
                  The leather binding of the gospel of St. Cuthbert has survived in its entirety (together with the rest of the book). It is made of dyed red goat leather with yellow paint on the interlaced lines.
                  It was created in the last quarter of the 7th century.

                  Here is a small picture:
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Cuthbert_Gospel

                  Note that in traditional oak tanned pit tanning, the final color of the leather after tanning will be quite dark, especially when the soil has a high iron content. You don't need to do much to get black leather (I haven't tried, but if you have, I'm curious to see the result).



                  To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                  From: albionwood@...
                  Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 08:53:04 -0800
                  Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Looking for Leather Carving Examples




























                  Greetings Tim,



                  The good news is, there is so little published material on Early

                  Medieval leather decoration, it won't take you very long to read it all

                  and be done with that stage of research. More good news: What you

                  really need to do is go to Europe and visit some museums where they have

                  surviving pieces, and see firsthand how they were decorated. Bad news:

                  Airfare is expensive.



                  We've had many discussions here over the years about leather dyes, and

                  99% of them have been speculation. We all know what kinds of dyes

                  _could have been_ applied to leather, but we have very little - if any -

                  actual evidence to show that dyes actually were used on leather,

                  especially from the Early Medieval period. Pretty much all the

                  surviving leather scraps and objects from that period are black, from

                  age and burial; it's impossible to know from observation whether they

                  were originally dyed or not. Modern technology might answer the

                  question, but AFAIK it hasn't been attempted. We do have considerable

                  evidence for _painted_ leather, though most of that is from outside your

                  period of interest.



                  We should be able to come up with some pictures of decorated objects.

                  Perhaps the best-documented early tooled-leather pieces are the Irish

                  book-satchels ("budgets") described by Waterer; the complete article is

                  now available online as a PDF, but I don't have a good link - Google

                  "Irish book satchels" and it should come up. Also you might profitably

                  spend some time searching the UK Archaeology Data Service site:

                  http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/



                  More later - gotta go now.

                  Cheers,

                  Tim



                  On 1/9/2012 7:36 AM, Fuersty@... wrote:

                  >

                  > Greetings,

                  >

                  > First off I just want to thank everyone that contributes on this list and with every set of posts I learn something new. I've been doing leather carving as a hobby for 30+ years, but most of what I know are modern techniques so this list has been very educational.

                  >

                  > Now the reason for my post today is that I've been asked to teach a class on early period leather carving, meaning 10th century and earlier. The class will be a combination of historical information along with some hands-on leather carving. Now I've seen a few examples in books, but have very little knowledge in this area. I'm hoping that a few of you might be able to point me to some good reference materials or have specific knowledge that may be helpful.

                  >

                  > I'm looking for Web links or Book references on:

                  > - Leather Dyes and what they were made from

                  > - Pictures of tooled leather (especially if it would be Norse related)

                  > - Pictures of the actual tools/punches that may have been used

                  >

                  > Any information would be greatly appreciated, thanks,

                  >

                  > Tim

                  > fuersty (at) AOL (dot) com

                  >
















                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Colin
                  Have you looked at Leather and Leatherworking In Anglos Saxon and Medieval York (is that the title?) by the YAT? There s quite a lot of examples of carving
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jan 11, 2012
                    Have you looked at Leather and Leatherworking In Anglos Saxon and Medieval York (is that the title?) by the YAT? There's quite a lot of examples of carving back to about the 10thC in there.

                    Best wishes

                    Colin

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Fuersty@...
                    To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 3:36 PM
                    Subject: [medieval-leather] Looking for Leather Carving Examples




                    Greetings,

                    First off I just want to thank everyone that contributes on this list and with every set of posts I learn something new. I've been doing leather carving as a hobby for 30+ years, but most of what I know are modern techniques so this list has been very educational.

                    Now the reason for my post today is that I've been asked to teach a class on early period leather carving, meaning 10th century and earlier. The class will be a combination of historical information along with some hands-on leather carving. Now I've seen a few examples in books, but have very little knowledge in this area. I'm hoping that a few of you might be able to point me to some good reference materials or have specific knowledge that may be helpful.

                    I'm looking for Web links or Book references on:
                    - Leather Dyes and what they were made from
                    - Pictures of tooled leather (especially if it would be Norse related)
                    - Pictures of the actual tools/punches that may have been used

                    Any information would be greatly appreciated, thanks,

                    Tim
                    fuersty (at) AOL (dot) com

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • bigfooted rockmidget
                    I m more into late medieval leather working but I just remembered that there is the Mappae Clavicula , which is a latin manuscript with parts written between
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jan 13, 2012
                      I'm more into late medieval leather working but I just remembered that there is the 'Mappae Clavicula', which is a latin manuscript with parts written between the 8th and the 12th century, with some parts known to be copies of even older manuscripts. It has some recipes for dyeing leather red and green and I think purple as well.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mappae_clavicula
                      The latin version in online in archive, I don't know of an english online version.

                      For tooled leather from Norway I only have the book with the finds from Bergen describing knife scabbards from the 12th-14th century.
                      Some early tools can be found in the York manuscripts, but I think they are not all in the 'leather and leatherworking' book.

                      Have fun!

                      To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                      From: Fuersty@...
                      Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 10:36:03 -0500
                      Subject: [medieval-leather] Looking for Leather Carving Examples






























                      Greetings,



                      First off I just want to thank everyone that contributes on this list and with every set of posts I learn something new. I've been doing leather carving as a hobby for 30+ years, but most of what I know are modern techniques so this list has been very educational.



                      Now the reason for my post today is that I've been asked to teach a class on early period leather carving, meaning 10th century and earlier. The class will be a combination of historical information along with some hands-on leather carving. Now I've seen a few examples in books, but have very little knowledge in this area. I'm hoping that a few of you might be able to point me to some good reference materials or have specific knowledge that may be helpful.



                      I'm looking for Web links or Book references on:

                      - Leather Dyes and what they were made from

                      - Pictures of tooled leather (especially if it would be Norse related)

                      - Pictures of the actual tools/punches that may have been used



                      Any information would be greatly appreciated, thanks,



                      Tim

                      fuersty (at) AOL (dot) com



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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