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Pecan-bark tannage ?

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  • Favour
    Greetings to the List: I was trying to explain the difference between veg- and mineral-tanned leather to a young man at our RenFaire the other day (well,
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 16, 2010
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      Greetings to the List:

      I was trying to explain the difference between veg- and mineral-tanned
      leather to a young man at our RenFaire the other day (well, actually, I
      was trying to explain why I could not blind-stamp his name onto his
      mineral-tanned leather bracelet), and his friend stated that when "the
      first settlers" came to America they didn't find oak trees (or enough of
      them) for tanning, and so used pecan bark, which turned out to be more
      acidic and therefore more useful for tanning. Aside from he didn't
      specify which "first settlers," and there are at least a couple oak
      species native to North America . . . is this accurate? Is pecan bark
      good for tanning (secondarily, is it as useful as/more useful than oak)
      and has anyone here tried it?

      Curiously,

      Susana Narvaez
    • R Schooley
      I don t think it s entirely accurate.  The main ingredient used in vegetable tanning is bark that is high in tannin so in areas where oak trees are rare you
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 16, 2010
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        I don't think it's entirely accurate.  The main ingredient used in vegetable
        tanning is bark that is high in tannin so in areas where oak trees are rare you
        have to find a different plant to use, but it's not going to be true of all of
        North America.  As to whether or not pecan bark is as good or better than oak
        bark for tanning I think that depends on if the pecan bark has tannin and how
        much of it there is.

        Noemi
         
         

        ________________________________

        From: Favour <favour@...>
        To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 2:05:08 PM
        Subject: [medieval-leather] Pecan-bark tannage ?

        Greetings to the List:

        I was trying to explain the difference between veg- and mineral-tanned
        leather to a young man at our RenFaire the other day (well, actually, I
        was trying to explain why I could not blind-stamp his name onto his
        mineral-tanned leather bracelet), and his friend stated that when "the
        first settlers" came to America they didn't find oak trees (or enough of
        them) for tanning, and so used pecan bark, which turned out to be more
        acidic and therefore more useful for tanning. Aside from he didn't
        specify which "first settlers," and there are at least a couple oak
        species native to North America . . . is this accurate? Is pecan bark
        good for tanning (secondarily, is it as useful as/more useful than oak)
        and has anyone here tried it?

        Curiously,

        Susana Narvaez






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Freyadis Steinsdottir
        Most plants around the world have tannins in them as antimicrobial, antifungal and antiparicidic (sp?) defences. Levels vary from species to species and from
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 16, 2010
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          Most plants around the world have tannins in them as antimicrobial,
          antifungal and antiparicidic (sp?) defences. Levels vary from species to
          species and from the part of the plant, bud, root, bark etc. The bark of
          trees such as fir and oak give more tannin per pound of raw bark than other
          trees such as birch, alder, willow, poplar etc that have also been used as
          tannin sources for leather making.
          There is no reason to discount the pecan tree for suppling tannins in
          the bark, but I would rather suspect the pecan tree is, or rather was, more
          valuable as a perennial food and oil source than it was for the one time
          only source of tannins.

          YIS
          Freyadis

          . As to whether or not pecan bark is as good or better than oak
          bark for tanning I think that depends on if the pecan bark has tannin and
          how
          much of it there is.

          Noemi
        • Leslie Cox
          A cursory Google search seems to indicate that pecan bark, while a tannin source, was even less useful than the nut shells themselves - and neither of these
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 16, 2010
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            A cursory Google search seems to indicate that pecan bark, while a tannin
            source, was even less useful than the nut shells themselves - and neither
            of these particularly high in tannins compared to the items Freyeadis
            mentioned...

            -- Lucy Rose

            On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Freyadis Steinsdottir <
            freyadis@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > Most plants around the world have tannins in them as antimicrobial,
            > antifungal and antiparicidic (sp?) defences. Levels vary from species to
            > species and from the part of the plant, bud, root, bark etc. The bark of
            > trees such as fir and oak give more tannin per pound of raw bark than other
            >
            > trees such as birch, alder, willow, poplar etc that have also been used as
            > tannin sources for leather making.
            > There is no reason to discount the pecan tree for suppling tannins in
            > the bark, but I would rather suspect the pecan tree is, or rather was, more
            >
            > valuable as a perennial food and oil source than it was for the one time
            > only source of tannins.
            >
            > YIS
            > Freyadis
            >
            > . As to whether or not pecan bark is as good or better than oak
            > bark for tanning I think that depends on if the pecan bark has tannin and
            > how
            > much of it there is.
            >
            > Noemi
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • ren_junkie
            Wait...what? No oak trees? Virginia s got a couple of em. Like 14 native species of oak. At least according to the Virginia Department of Forestry. We are
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 17, 2010
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              Wait...what? No oak trees? Virginia's got a couple of em. Like 14 native species of oak. At least according to the Virginia Department of Forestry. We are absolutely crammed with oak.

              Unless he meant Siberians fresh off the land bridge. Cause if he's meaning first English setters....

              Christopher

              --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, Favour <favour@...> wrote:
              >
              > Greetings to the List:
              >
              > I was trying to explain the difference between veg- and mineral-tanned
              > leather to a young man at our RenFaire the other day (well, actually, I
              > was trying to explain why I could not blind-stamp his name onto his
              > mineral-tanned leather bracelet), and his friend stated that when "the
              > first settlers" came to America they didn't find oak trees (or enough of
              > them) for tanning, and so used pecan bark, which turned out to be more
              > acidic and therefore more useful for tanning. Aside from he didn't
              > specify which "first settlers," and there are at least a couple oak
              > species native to North America . . . is this accurate? Is pecan bark
              > good for tanning (secondarily, is it as useful as/more useful than oak)
              > and has anyone here tried it?
              >
              > Curiously,
              >
              > Susana Narvaez
              >
            • Duncan Sinclair
              Just a thought, but along this line, what about walnut hulls? they are full of tannin and are quite numerous. ... From: Leslie Cox
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 17, 2010
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                Just a thought, but along this line, what about walnut hulls? they are full of
                tannin and are quite numerous.



                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Leslie Cox <lucyrosefalconer@...>
                To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wed, November 17, 2010 12:45:46 AM
                Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Pecan-bark tannage ?

                A cursory Google search seems to indicate that pecan bark, while a tannin
                source,  was even less useful than the nut shells themselves - and neither
                of these particularly high in tannins compared to the items Freyeadis
                mentioned...

                -- Lucy Rose

                On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Freyadis Steinsdottir <
                freyadis@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > Most plants around the world have tannins in them as antimicrobial,
                > antifungal and antiparicidic (sp?) defences. Levels vary from species to
                > species and from the part of the plant, bud, root, bark etc. The bark of
                > trees such as fir and oak give more tannin per pound of raw bark than other
                >
                > trees such as birch, alder, willow, poplar etc that have also been used as
                > tannin sources for leather making.
                > There is no reason to discount the pecan tree for suppling tannins in
                > the bark, but I would rather suspect the pecan tree is, or rather was, more
                >
                > valuable as a perennial food and oil source than it was for the one time
                > only source of tannins.
                >
                > YIS
                > Freyadis
                >
                > . As to whether or not pecan bark is as good or better than oak
                > bark for tanning I think that depends on if the pecan bark has tannin and
                > how
                > much of it there is.
                >
                > Noemi
                >

                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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              • Leslie Cox
                Yeah, I know; was wondering about that myself - pecans are more southern natives, yes? So I m certainly not sure about that part either. But - even if they
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 17, 2010
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                  Yeah, I know; was wondering about that myself - pecans are more southern
                  natives, yes? So I'm certainly not sure about that part either. But - even
                  if they didn't have oak, looks like there were lots of other, better options
                  (including walnut, alder and willow) than pecan most anywhere? Wonder
                  where the story started; sounds like it could be interesting.

                  -- Lucy Rose


                  On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 2:13 AM, ren_junkie <ren_junkie@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > Wait...what? No oak trees? Virginia's got a couple of em. Like 14 native
                  > species of oak. At least according to the Virginia Department of Forestry.
                  > We are absolutely crammed with oak.
                  >
                  > Unless he meant Siberians fresh off the land bridge. Cause if he's meaning
                  > first English setters....
                  >
                  > Christopher
                  >
                  > --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com<medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > Favour <favour@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Greetings to the List:
                  > >
                  > > I was trying to explain the difference between veg- and mineral-tanned
                  > > leather to a young man at our RenFaire the other day (well, actually, I
                  > > was trying to explain why I could not blind-stamp his name onto his
                  > > mineral-tanned leather bracelet), and his friend stated that when "the
                  > > first settlers" came to America they didn't find oak trees (or enough of
                  > > them) for tanning, and so used pecan bark, which turned out to be more
                  > > acidic and therefore more useful for tanning. Aside from he didn't
                  > > specify which "first settlers," and there are at least a couple oak
                  > > species native to North America . . . is this accurate? Is pecan bark
                  > > good for tanning (secondarily, is it as useful as/more useful than oak)
                  > > and has anyone here tried it?
                  > >
                  > > Curiously,
                  > >
                  > > Susana Narvaez
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Fraser Crowe
                  ... h: And oaks were numerous enough in the eastern woodlands that the Sibero-Americans could rely on the acorns as a food source. ... h: Although they would
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 17, 2010
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                    On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 3:13 AM, ren_junkie <ren_junkie@...> wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Wait...what? No oak trees? Virginia's got a couple of em. Like 14 native
                    > species of oak. At least according to the Virginia Department of Forestry.
                    > We are absolutely crammed with oak.
                    >
                    h: And oaks were numerous enough in the eastern woodlands that the
                    Sibero-Americans could rely on the acorns as a food source.

                    > Unless he meant Siberians fresh off the land bridge.
                    >
                    h: Although they would probably have been relying solely on rawhide and
                    brain-tanning.

                    > Cause if he's meaning first English setters...
                    >
                    h: Not forgetting the Spanish, Dutch, Swedish, and French settlers.

                    > Christopher
                    >
                    Herluin
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