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Re: [medieval-leather] Splits

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  • Ginny Phillips
    I would be interested in hearing about raising a nap on leather to create a suedelike finish. Can you point me in a direction to learn more about this as a
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 19 6:01 PM
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      I would be interested in hearing about raising a nap on leather to create a
      suedelike finish. Can you point me in a direction to learn more about this as a
      technique in the medieval period? Thanks so much!

      Ginny Phillips





      ________________________________
      From: Ron Charlotte <ronch2@...>
      To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sun, September 19, 2010 6:59:48 PM
      Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Splits


      Splits are a fairly modern trick. It takes a pretty precise machine
      to break a thick hide into a top grain and one or more splits.

      To get a thin leather, a medieval leather maker would basically shave
      down the flesh side until the leather was thin enough, or simply
      start with a thinner hide to begin with. If they wanted a suede,
      they would raise a nap on the grain side.

      That said, splits are perfectly good economical leather (especially
      when it's free or inexpensive).

      At 06:16 PM 9/19/2010, Jon wrote:
      >Don't remember seeing any specific information so I thought I toss this one
      >out here. Do any of you use splits for pouch projects? I've been offered
      >some deer splits and thought they would make some spiffy pouches and
      >linings. Most of the extant pieces I'm aware of aren't but there are a lot
      >more eyes here so I'm polling the group. Thanks in advance.

      Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
      ronch2@... OR afn03234@...







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Parker
      One important point to remember if you re concerned with historical accuracy. In my brief foray into medieval shoe designs, I learned that using split leather
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 20 1:38 PM
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        One important point to remember if you're concerned with historical
        accuracy. In my brief foray into medieval shoe designs, I learned that
        using split leather is fine as long as you use don't use the middle split.
        As for getting the suede finish, do you mean like the rough side of the
        leather? Then again, I may not be thinking of the same thing you're
        describing.

        ~Valinn

        On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Ginny Phillips
        <gillianwarrender@...>wrote:

        >
        >
        > I would be interested in hearing about raising a nap on leather to create a
        >
        > suedelike finish. Can you point me in a direction to learn more about this
        > as a
        > technique in the medieval period? Thanks so much!
        >
        > Ginny Phillips
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Ron Charlotte <ronch2@... <ronch2%40bellsouth.net>>
        > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Sun, September 19, 2010 6:59:48 PM
        > Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Splits
        >
        >
        > Splits are a fairly modern trick. It takes a pretty precise machine
        > to break a thick hide into a top grain and one or more splits.
        >
        > To get a thin leather, a medieval leather maker would basically shave
        > down the flesh side until the leather was thin enough, or simply
        > start with a thinner hide to begin with. If they wanted a suede,
        > they would raise a nap on the grain side.
        >
        > That said, splits are perfectly good economical leather (especially
        > when it's free or inexpensive).
        >
        > At 06:16 PM 9/19/2010, Jon wrote:
        > >Don't remember seeing any specific information so I thought I toss this
        > one
        > >out here. Do any of you use splits for pouch projects? I've been offered
        > >some deer splits and thought they would make some spiffy pouches and
        > >linings. Most of the extant pieces I'm aware of aren't but there are a lot
        > >more eyes here so I'm polling the group. Thanks in advance.
        >
        > Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
        > ronch2@... <ronch2%40bellsouth.net> OR afn03234@...<afn03234%40afn.org>
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ron Charlotte
        ... The technique is called Frizing (at least that s the name I was introduced to it as). It uses a scraper-type knife. It s how the surface of true Buff
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 20 3:40 PM
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          At 09:01 PM 9/19/2010, you wrote:
          >I would be interested in hearing about raising a nap on leather to create a
          >suedelike finish. Can you point me in a direction to learn more
          >about this as a
          >technique in the medieval period? Thanks so much!
          >
          >Ginny Phillips

          The technique is called "Frizing" (at least that's the name I was
          introduced to it as). It uses a scraper-type knife. It's how the
          surface of true "Buff" leather was treated. (That originally came
          from Waterer's _Leather Craftsmanship_)

          The same technique could be found as spot decoration on a few
          scabbards and surviving shoes, such as a couple of examples in _Shoes
          and Pattens_ (circa 14th century).

          Those are the specifics I can dig up quickly.


          Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
          ronch2@... OR afn03234@...
        • Ginny Phillips
          Excellent! That gives me some information to start digging. Thank you! Ginny ________________________________ From: Ron Charlotte To:
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 20 3:44 PM
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            Excellent! That gives me some information to start digging. Thank you!

            Ginny





            ________________________________
            From: Ron Charlotte <ronch2@...>
            To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Mon, September 20, 2010 5:40:22 PM
            Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Splits


            At 09:01 PM 9/19/2010, you wrote:
            >I would be interested in hearing about raising a nap on leather to create a
            >suedelike finish. Can you point me in a direction to learn more
            >about this as a
            >technique in the medieval period? Thanks so much!
            >
            >Ginny Phillips

            The technique is called "Frizing" (at least that's the name I was
            introduced to it as). It uses a scraper-type knife. It's how the
            surface of true "Buff" leather was treated. (That originally came
            from Waterer's _Leather Craftsmanship_)

            The same technique could be found as spot decoration on a few
            scabbards and surviving shoes, such as a couple of examples in _Shoes
            and Pattens_ (circa 14th century).

            Those are the specifics I can dig up quickly.

            Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
            ronch2@... OR afn03234@...







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • jon@armlann.com
            What do you mean by middle split? I m not familiar with that one. Great info here. Thanks to all BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica,
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 21 10:03 AM
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              What do you mean by middle split? I'm not familiar with that one.
              Great info here. Thanks to all

              BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }
              Jon
              On Mon 20/09/10 3:38 PM , Michael Parker ArchAngel13@... sent:
              One important point to remember if you're concerned with historical
              accuracy. In my brief foray into medieval shoe designs, I learned
              that
              using split leather is fine as long as you use don't use the middle
              split.
              As for getting the suede finish, do you mean like the rough side of
              the
              leather? Then again, I may not be thinking of the same thing you're
              describing.
              ~Valinn
              On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Ginny Phillips
              wrote:
              >
              >
              > I would be interested in hearing about raising a nap on leather to
              create a
              >
              > suedelike finish. Can you point me in a direction to learn more
              about this
              > as a
              > technique in the medieval period? Thanks so much!
              >
              > Ginny Phillips
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: Ron Charlotte
              > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com [3]
              > Sent: Sun, September 19, 2010 6:59:48 PM
              > Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Splits
              >
              >
              > Splits are a fairly modern trick. It takes a pretty precise
              machine
              > to break a thick hide into a top grain and one or more splits.
              >
              > To get a thin leather, a medieval leather maker would basically
              shave
              > down the flesh side until the leather was thin enough, or simply
              > start with a thinner hide to begin with. If they wanted a suede,
              > they would raise a nap on the grain side.
              >
              > That said, splits are perfectly good economical leather
              (especially
              > when it's free or inexpensive).
              >
              > At 06:16 PM 9/19/2010, Jon wrote:
              > >Don't remember seeing any specific information so I thought I
              toss this
              > one
              > >out here. Do any of you use splits for pouch projects? I've been
              offered
              > >some deer splits and thought they would make some spiffy pouches
              and
              > >linings. Most of the extant pieces I'm aware of aren't but there
              are a lot
              > >more eyes here so I'm polling the group. Thanks in advance.
              >
              > Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
              > ronch2@... [4] OR afn03234@... [5]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              ------------------------------------
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jon@armlann.com
              I guess I m asking if folks here would use splits for their more accurate projects? Yes, I m trying to talk myself into buying the deer splits. Its a great
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 21 10:08 AM
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                I guess I'm asking if folks here would use splits for their more
                accurate projects? Yes, I'm trying to talk myself into buying the
                deer splits. Its a great deal but I'm not sure splits are OK.
                Medieval leather workers wouldn't have had anything quite like modern
                splits. The more I write the more I think I'll just get some for
                linings.

                Jon

                BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }
                On Sun 19/09/10 6:59 PM , Ron Charlotte ronch2@... sent:
                Splits are a fairly modern trick. It takes a pretty precise machine

                to break a thick hide into a top grain and one or more splits.
                To get a thin leather, a medieval leather maker would basically
                shave
                down the flesh side until the leather was thin enough, or simply
                start with a thinner hide to begin with. If they wanted a suede,
                they would raise a nap on the grain side.
                That said, splits are perfectly good economical leather (especially
                when it's free or inexpensive).
                At 06:16 PM 9/19/2010, Jon wrote:
                >Don't remember seeing any specific information so I thought I toss
                this one
                >out here. Do any of you use splits for pouch projects? I've been
                offered
                >some deer splits and thought they would make some spiffy pouches
                and
                >linings. Most of the extant pieces I'm aware of aren't but there
                are a lot
                >more eyes here so I'm polling the group. Thanks in advance.
                Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                ronch2@... [1] OR afn03234@... [2]
                ------------------------------------
                Yahoo! Groups Links
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                ------
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              • Michael Parker
                Jon, If you look at a piece of raw leather in profile, you have the smooth surface from the outside of the animal on one side, and the flesh side where it was
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 21 7:20 PM
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                  Jon,

                  If you look at a piece of raw leather in profile, you have the smooth
                  surface from the outside of the animal on one side, and the flesh side where
                  it was removed from said animal on the other. If you then physically split
                  the piece of leather into 3 or more layers, any of the layers out of the
                  middle are 'center splits' (the term I meant to use rather than 'middle
                  split'). They basically have a suede finish on both sides. From what I
                  understand, the archeological record includes no artifacts with leather in
                  this condition from the medieval period.

                  If I am mistaken in this understanding, please, someone, let me know.

                  Thanks,
                  Michael

                  On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 1:08 PM, <jon@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I guess I'm asking if folks here would use splits for their more
                  > accurate projects? Yes, I'm trying to talk myself into buying the
                  > deer splits. Its a great deal but I'm not sure splits are OK.
                  > Medieval leather workers wouldn't have had anything quite like modern
                  > splits. The more I write the more I think I'll just get some for
                  > linings.
                  >
                  > Jon
                  >
                  > BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }
                  > On Sun 19/09/10 6:59 PM , Ron Charlotte ronch2@...<ronch2%40bellsouth.net>sent:
                  >
                  > Splits are a fairly modern trick. It takes a pretty precise machine
                  >
                  > to break a thick hide into a top grain and one or more splits.
                  > To get a thin leather, a medieval leather maker would basically
                  > shave
                  > down the flesh side until the leather was thin enough, or simply
                  > start with a thinner hide to begin with. If they wanted a suede,
                  > they would raise a nap on the grain side.
                  > That said, splits are perfectly good economical leather (especially
                  > when it's free or inexpensive).
                  > At 06:16 PM 9/19/2010, Jon wrote:
                  > >Don't remember seeing any specific information so I thought I toss
                  > this one
                  > >out here. Do any of you use splits for pouch projects? I've been
                  > offered
                  > >some deer splits and thought they would make some spiffy pouches
                  > and
                  > >linings. Most of the extant pieces I'm aware of aren't but there
                  > are a lot
                  > >more eyes here so I'm polling the group. Thanks in advance.
                  > Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                  > ronch2@... <ronch2%40bellsouth.net> [1] OR afn03234@...<afn03234%40afn.org>[2]
                  > ------------------------------------
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