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Re: [medieval-leather] +Re: Sheath construction...

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  • Michael Parker
    I have actually never heard of a distinction between the terms, but it s a fair question. I don t know about historically speaking, but I just checked
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 26, 2010
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      I have actually never heard of a distinction between the terms, but it's a
      fair question. I don't know about historically speaking, but I just checked
      dictionary.com and the definitions are below:

      sheath  [image: sheath
      pronunciation]<http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/S04/S0423900>
       /ʃiθ/ <http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.html> Show
      Spelled [sheeth]
      <http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html> Show IPA
      noun,pluralsheaths [image: sheath
      pronunciation]<http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/S04/S0424000>
       /ʃiðz/ <http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.html> Show
      Spelled[sheethz]
      <http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html> Show IPA,
      verb
      –noun
      1.
      a case or covering for the blade of a sword, dagger, or the like.
      2.
      any similar close-fitting covering or case.

      scab·bard  [image: scabbard
      pronunciation]<http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/S01/S0140900>
       /ˈskæbərd/ <http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.html> Show
      Spelled[skab-erd]
      <http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html> Show IPA
      –noun
      1.
      a sheath for a sword or the like.

      As I said, I have no idea if there is a difference in the historical
      context, but in current usage they seem synonymous.

      ~Michael


      On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Leslie Cox <lucyrosefalconer@...>wrote:

      >
      >
      > Those more knowledgeable - feel free to correct me, but to make it easier,
      > I
      > believe it would help to define the terminology better -
      >
      > As I understand it, the wooden-core ones are called scabbards, and the
      > others are sheaths.
      >
      > My husband has fabricated both hand-stitched stacked leather sheaths (solid
      > front and back, v-shaped middle layer in the sandwich, with the cut-out
      > made
      > to accomodate the blade) - and the later-period wooden-core type
      > scabbards with shearling lining and thin leather outer skin (also
      > hand-stitched, but the core done with a router for the sake of time and
      > sanity!).
      >
      > I believe he's told me this terminology, but again, I could be remembering
      > wrong or whatever - do correct me if you know better than I. (My Lord is
      > not on this list; I am because I decorate what he creates.)
      >
      > -- Lucy Rose Falconer
      >
      > On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Michael Parker <ArchAngel13@...<ArchAngel13%40gmail.com>
      > >wrote:
      >
      >
      > > Seth,
      > >
      > > I actually first saw the description of the leather-covered, wool-lined
      > > wooden sheath for swords in Jim Hrisoulas' *The Master
      > > Bladesmith*(excellent reference for anyone interested in bladesmithing
      > > and especially
      > > swordsmithing, btw) where he says they're most appropriate for Viking
      > > swords. I'm lead to understand that he's something of an expert when it
      > > comes to Viking weaponry, but I don't know where he got the design.
      > >
      > > ~Michael
      > >
      > (post trimmed...)
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Timothy Park
      I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings. The deal is that they re raw, pink leather (not really pink, but caucasian skin pink), I have
      Message 2 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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        I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings.

        The deal is that they're raw, "pink" leather (not really pink, but
        caucasian skin pink), I have about three days, and I'd like them to look
        browner, and like they've been oiled and used for years for work.

        I've determined to have leggings of a kind for workshop garb for a
        couple of different things. There are probably more period appropriate
        terms. But so you have the idea "tie on chaps" is what one friend called
        them. Protect the legs from the dirt of the shop rising to mid or upper
        thigh.

        Simple. Two tubes, laces at the top to tie to belt or what have you.

        That's not the issue.

        What I have are two, light, probably some sort of bovine, we'll call it
        cow, of indeterminate origin. They're as light as deerskin and have been
        mistaken as such.

        But they're pale leather right now and Friday is the first event they're
        needed at.

        More for my own aesthetics I don't want them pale, pinky looking.

        Oil helps, but what I want is more brown or tan. (I have not oiled them,
        just tested scrap.)

        Any suggestions on a quick way to dye and/or age these?

        I liked the vinegaroon notion but don't have time to make the solution,
        and these are probably chrome tanned.

        I've thought about oiling them heavily, then tossing into a dryer or hot
        with an old shoe to see if the heat will cook them darker. Thought about
        ironing them. Thought about dying them the usual way (tedious but
        doable), thought about dumping dye in oil. Even pondered leaving them in
        the sun in a tub of water with a dozen tea bags.

        Ideas?
      • tasha_medvedeva
        Motor oil. Saddlers use it all the time. Tasha ... {snip}
        Message 3 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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          Motor oil. Saddlers use it all the time.

          Tasha

          --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, Timothy Park <park.ta@...> wrote:
          >
          > I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings.
          >
          {snip}
        • Timothy Park
          used so you get the gunk in? Or just straight. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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            used so you get the gunk in?

            Or just straight.

            On 5/3/2010 1:57 PM, tasha_medvedeva wrote:
            >
            > Motor oil. Saddlers use it all the time.
            >
            > Tasha
            >
            > --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>, Timothy Park
            > <park.ta@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings.
            > >
            > {snip}
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Diane Sawyer Dooley
            New, as far as I recall. Tasha ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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              New, as far as I recall.

              Tasha



              >
              >From: Timothy Park <park.ta@...>
              >To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 3:16:20 PM
              >Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick
              >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > >
              >>
              >
              >used so you get the gunk in?
              >
              >>Or just straight.
              >
              >>On 5/3/2010 1:57 PM, tasha_medvedeva wrote:
              >>>
              >>> Motor oil. Saddlers use it all the time.
              >>>
              >>> Tasha
              >>>
              >>> --- In medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
              >>> <mailto:medieval- leather%40yahoog roups.com> , Timothy Park
              >>> <park.ta@... > wrote:
              >>> >
              >>> > I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings.
              >>> >
              >>> {snip}
              >>>
              >>>
              >
              >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ron McKenna
              I ve had really good luck with tea. Several tea bags in water and give the pieces a tea bath. Never did it with garment weight leathers though. Haven t tried
              Message 6 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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                I've had really good luck with tea. Several tea bags in water and give the pieces a tea bath. Never did it with garment weight leathers though.

                Haven't tried motor-oil. Have to try that!


                Nathanial


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Diane Sawyer Dooley
                To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:46 PM
                Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick



                New, as far as I recall.

                Tasha

                >
                >From: Timothy Park <park.ta@...>
                >To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                >Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 3:16:20 PM
                >Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick
                >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > >
                >>
                >
                >used so you get the gunk in?
                >
                >>Or just straight.
                >
                >>On 5/3/2010 1:57 PM, tasha_medvedeva wrote:
                >>>
                >>> Motor oil. Saddlers use it all the time.
                >>>
                >>> Tasha
                >>>
                >>> --- In medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
                >>> <mailto:medieval- leather%40yahoog roups.com> , Timothy Park
                >>> <park.ta@... > wrote:
                >>> >
                >>> > I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings.
                >>> >
                >>> {snip}
                >>>
                >>>
                >
                >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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                Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2851 - Release Date: 05/03/10 01:27:00


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              • Michael Parker
                I ve heard of using both tea and coffee to dye fabrics. I would imagine they might work just fine on leather. If it would give you the color you re looking
                Message 7 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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                  I've heard of using both tea and coffee to dye fabrics. I would imagine
                  they might work just fine on leather. If it would give you the color you're
                  looking for, then it should be easy to try on a small piece.

                  On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Ron McKenna <mckron@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > I've had really good luck with tea. Several tea bags in water and give the
                  > pieces a tea bath. Never did it with garment weight leathers though.
                  >
                  > Haven't tried motor-oil. Have to try that!
                  >
                  > Nathanial
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Diane Sawyer Dooley
                  Are you guys talking about tea dyeing vegtan or chrome tan, though? (BTW, if anyone s interested, vinegaroon won t work on chrome tan. The chemistry isn t
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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                    Are you guys talking about tea dyeing vegtan or chrome tan, though? (BTW, if anyone's interested, vinegaroon won't work on chrome tan. The chemistry isn't right for it.)

                    Tasha



                    >
                    >From: Michael Parker <ArchAngel13@...>
                    >To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                    >Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 5:57:57 PM
                    >Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    >>
                    >
                    >I've heard of using both tea and coffee to dye fabrics. I would imagine
                    >>they might work just fine on leather. If it would give you the color you're
                    >>looking for, then it should be easy to try on a small piece.
                    >
                    >>On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Ron McKenna <mckron@shaw. ca> wrote:
                    >
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> I've had really good luck with tea. Several tea bags in water and give the
                    >>> pieces a tea bath. Never did it with garment weight leathers though.
                    >>>
                    >>> Haven't tried motor-oil. Have to try that!
                    >>>
                    >>> Nathanial
                    >>>
                    >
                    >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Shawn Zoladz
                    Motor Oil? Please advise on which saddler uses motor oil on their saddles. Motor oil has a high sulfur content, sulfur degrades leather. Motor oil also
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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                      Motor Oil? Please advise on which "saddler" uses motor oil on their saddles.

                      Motor oil has a high sulfur content, sulfur degrades leather. Motor oil also attacks most cotton and poly thread.

                      So why would you use motor oil again? To degrade a $5000-$15,000 saddle.

                      -Shawn W. Zoladz



                      Major Productions, High Quality, Fine Leather Goods.

                      --- On Mon, 5/3/10, Ron McKenna <mckron@...> wrote:

                      From: Ron McKenna <mckron@...>
                      Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick
                      To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 4:39 PM







                       









                      I've had really good luck with tea. Several tea bags in water and give the pieces a tea bath. Never did it with garment weight leathers though.



                      Haven't tried motor-oil. Have to try that!



                      Nathanial



                      ----- Original Message -----

                      From: Diane Sawyer Dooley

                      To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com

                      Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:46 PM

                      Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick



                      New, as far as I recall.



                      Tasha



                      >

                      >From: Timothy Park <park.ta@gmail. com>

                      >To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com

                      >Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 3:16:20 PM

                      >Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick

                      >

                      > >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      >

                      > >

                      >>

                      >

                      >used so you get the gunk in?

                      >

                      >>Or just straight.

                      >

                      >>On 5/3/2010 1:57 PM, tasha_medvedeva wrote:

                      >>>

                      >>> Motor oil. Saddlers use it all the time.

                      >>>

                      >>> Tasha

                      >>>

                      >>> --- In medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com

                      >>> <mailto:medieval- leather%40yahoog roups.com> , Timothy Park

                      >>> <park.ta@... > wrote:

                      >>> >

                      >>> > I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings.

                      >>> >

                      >>> {snip}

                      >>>

                      >>>

                      >

                      >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      >

                      >

                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                      No virus found in this incoming message.

                      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

                      Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2851 - Release Date: 05/03/10 01:27:00



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















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                    • Diane Sawyer Dooley
                      Was the arch tone *really* necessary? Tasha ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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                        Was the arch tone *really* necessary?

                        Tasha



                        >
                        >From: Shawn Zoladz <the_major@...>
                        >To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                        >Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 7:18:37 PM
                        >Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick
                        >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >
                        >>
                        >
                        >Motor Oil? Please advise on which "saddler" uses motor oil on their saddles.
                        >
                        >>Motor oil has a high sulfur content, sulfur degrades leather. Motor oil also attacks most cotton and poly thread.
                        >
                        >>So why would you use motor oil again? To degrade a $5000-$15,000 saddle.
                        >
                        >>-Shawn W. Zoladz
                        >
                        >>Major Productions, High Quality, Fine Leather Goods.
                        >
                        >>--- On Mon, 5/3/10, Ron McKenna <mckron@shaw. ca> wrote:
                        >
                        >>From: Ron McKenna <mckron@shaw. ca>
                        >>Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick
                        >>To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
                        >>Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 4:39 PM
                        >
                        >>
                        >
                        >>I've had really good luck with tea. Several tea bags in water and give the pieces a tea bath. Never did it with garment weight leathers though.
                        >
                        >>Haven't tried motor-oil. Have to try that!
                        >
                        >>Nathanial
                        >
                        >>----- Original Message -----
                        >
                        >>From: Diane Sawyer Dooley
                        >
                        >>To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
                        >
                        >>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:46 PM
                        >
                        >>Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick
                        >
                        >>New, as far as I recall.
                        >
                        >>Tasha
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>>From: Timothy Park <park.ta@gmail. com>
                        >
                        >>>To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
                        >
                        >>>Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 3:16:20 PM
                        >
                        >>>Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>> >
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>> >
                        >
                        >>>>
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>>used so you get the gunk in?
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>>>Or just straight.
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>>>On 5/3/2010 1:57 PM, tasha_medvedeva wrote:
                        >
                        >>>>>
                        >
                        >>>>> Motor oil. Saddlers use it all the time.
                        >
                        >>>>>
                        >
                        >>>>> Tasha
                        >
                        >>>>>
                        >
                        >>>>> --- In medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
                        >
                        >>>>> <mailto:medieval- leather%40yahoog roups.com> , Timothy Park
                        >
                        >>>>> <park.ta@... > wrote:
                        >
                        >>>>> >
                        >
                        >>>>> > I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings.
                        >
                        >>>>> >
                        >
                        >>>>> {snip}
                        >
                        >>>>>
                        >
                        >>>>>
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>>
                        >
                        >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >>------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                        >
                        >>No virus found in this incoming message.
                        >
                        >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        >
                        >>Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2851 - Release Date: 05/03/10 01:27:00
                        >
                        >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ron Charlotte
                        ... Tea is one of the classic prop distressing tricks. You can use that first, but I m not sure how well it will take on chrome tan. For what you are after,
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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                          At 02:39 PM 5/3/2010, Timothy Park wrote:
                          >I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings.

                          Tea is one of the classic prop distressing tricks. You can use that
                          first, but I'm not sure how well it will take on chrome tan.

                          For what you are after, probably a medium brown liquid shoe polish
                          will do the trick. Don't use the bottle applicator, pop the top and
                          pour it into a disposable/recyclable pan and use a wad of clean rag
                          or sponge to apply the stuff less than evenly. Go a bit heavier in
                          the thigh area, and _tops_ of the bends and creases you have already
                          worn into the leggings (That's how my leather work aprons tend to
                          wear). Use a piece of coarse cloth (a chunk of old denim works) to
                          buff the wear zones more than the rest of the leggings. Then give the
                          whole thing a rubdown with a cloth moistened with just enough
                          neatsfoot oil to top dress it. That last will blend out the applied polish.


                          al Thaalibi ---- An Crosaire, Trimaris
                          Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                          ronch2@... or afn03234@...
                        • Shawn Zoladz
                          No tone was meant. My apologies if it was taken the wrong way. I was just offering a warning. -Shawn W. Zoladz Major Productions, High Quality, Hand Made
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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                            No tone was meant. My apologies if it was taken the wrong way. I was just offering a warning.

                            -Shawn W. Zoladz



                            Major Productions, High Quality, Hand Made Leather Goods.

                            --- On Mon, 5/3/10, Diane Sawyer Dooley <tasha_medvedeva@...> wrote:

                            From: Diane Sawyer Dooley <tasha_medvedeva@...>
                            Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick
                            To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 6:58 PM







                             









                            Was the arch tone *really* necessary?



                            Tasha



                            >

                            >From: Shawn Zoladz <the_major@sbcglobal .net>

                            >To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com

                            >Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 7:18:37 PM

                            >Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick

                            >

                            > >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            >

                            > >

                            >>

                            >

                            >Motor Oil? Please advise on which "saddler" uses motor oil on their saddles.

                            >

                            >>Motor oil has a high sulfur content, sulfur degrades leather. Motor oil also attacks most cotton and poly thread.

                            >

                            >>So why would you use motor oil again? To degrade a $5000-$15,000 saddle.

                            >

                            >>-Shawn W. Zoladz

                            >

                            >>Major Productions, High Quality, Fine Leather Goods.

                            >

                            >>--- On Mon, 5/3/10, Ron McKenna <mckron@shaw. ca> wrote:

                            >

                            >>From: Ron McKenna <mckron@shaw. ca>

                            >>Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick

                            >>To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com

                            >>Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 4:39 PM

                            >

                            >>

                            >

                            >>I've had really good luck with tea. Several tea bags in water and give the pieces a tea bath. Never did it with garment weight leathers though.

                            >

                            >>Haven't tried motor-oil. Have to try that!

                            >

                            >>Nathanial

                            >

                            >>----- Original Message -----

                            >

                            >>From: Diane Sawyer Dooley

                            >

                            >>To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com

                            >

                            >>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:46 PM

                            >

                            >>Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick

                            >

                            >>New, as far as I recall.

                            >

                            >>Tasha

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>>From: Timothy Park <park.ta@gmail. com>

                            >

                            >>>To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com

                            >

                            >>>Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 3:16:20 PM

                            >

                            >>>Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>> >

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>> >

                            >

                            >>>>

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>>used so you get the gunk in?

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>>>Or just straight.

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>>>On 5/3/2010 1:57 PM, tasha_medvedeva wrote:

                            >

                            >>>>>

                            >

                            >>>>> Motor oil. Saddlers use it all the time.

                            >

                            >>>>>

                            >

                            >>>>> Tasha

                            >

                            >>>>>

                            >

                            >>>>> --- In medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com

                            >

                            >>>>> <mailto:medieval- leather%40yahoog roups.com> , Timothy Park

                            >

                            >>>>> <park.ta@... > wrote:

                            >

                            >>>>> >

                            >

                            >>>>> > I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings.

                            >

                            >>>>> >

                            >

                            >>>>> {snip}

                            >

                            >>>>>

                            >

                            >>>>>

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>>

                            >

                            >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            >

                            >>---------- -- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

                            >

                            >>No virus found in this incoming message.

                            >

                            >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

                            >

                            >>Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2851 - Release Date: 05/03/10 01:27:00

                            >

                            >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            >

                            >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            >

                            >

                            >



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                          • Michael Parker
                            I ve also seen Chuck Burroughs use a fine steel wool to buff the high points when distressing leather after dyeing and he gets beautiful results. ... [Non-text
                            Message 13 of 25 , May 3, 2010
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                              I've also seen Chuck Burroughs use a fine steel wool to buff the high points
                              when distressing leather after dyeing and he gets beautiful results.

                              On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Shawn Zoladz <the_major@...>wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > No tone was meant. My apologies if it was taken the wrong way. I was just
                              > offering a warning.
                              >
                              > -Shawn W. Zoladz
                              >
                              > Major Productions, High Quality, Hand Made Leather Goods.
                              >
                              > --- On Mon, 5/3/10, Diane Sawyer Dooley <tasha_medvedeva@...<tasha_medvedeva%40yahoo.com>>
                              > wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Diane Sawyer Dooley <tasha_medvedeva@...<tasha_medvedeva%40yahoo.com>
                              > >
                              >
                              > Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down,
                              > dirty, quick
                              > To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com <medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 6:58 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Was the arch tone *really* necessary?
                              >
                              > Tasha
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >From: Shawn Zoladz <the_major@sbcglobal .net>
                              >
                              > >To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
                              >
                              > >Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 7:18:37 PM
                              >
                              > >Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down,
                              > dirty, quick
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >Motor Oil? Please advise on which "saddler" uses motor oil on their
                              > saddles.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>Motor oil has a high sulfur content, sulfur degrades leather. Motor oil
                              > also attacks most cotton and poly thread.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>So why would you use motor oil again? To degrade a $5000-$15,000 saddle.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>-Shawn W. Zoladz
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>Major Productions, High Quality, Fine Leather Goods.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>--- On Mon, 5/3/10, Ron McKenna <mckron@shaw. ca> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>From: Ron McKenna <mckron@shaw. ca>
                              >
                              > >>Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down,
                              > dirty, quick
                              >
                              > >>To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
                              >
                              > >>Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 4:39 PM
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>I've had really good luck with tea. Several tea bags in water and give
                              > the pieces a tea bath. Never did it with garment weight leathers though.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>Haven't tried motor-oil. Have to try that!
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>Nathanial
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>----- Original Message -----
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>From: Diane Sawyer Dooley
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:46 PM
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down,
                              > dirty, quick
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>New, as far as I recall.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>Tasha
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>From: Timothy Park <park.ta@gmail. com>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 3:16:20 PM
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem: down,
                              > dirty, quick
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>> >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>> >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>used so you get the gunk in?
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>Or just straight.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>On 5/3/2010 1:57 PM, tasha_medvedeva wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>> Motor oil. Saddlers use it all the time.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>> Tasha
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>> --- In medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>> <mailto:medieval- leather%40yahoog roups.com> , Timothy Park
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>> <park.ta@... > wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>> >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>> > I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>> >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>> {snip}
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>>
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>---------- -- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>No virus found in this incoming message.
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2851 - Release Date: 05/03/10
                              > 01:27:00
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > >
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                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Timothy Park
                              I have to question that vinegaroon won t work on chrome tanned. I m pretty sure my leather in question is chrome tanned. Just as an experiment I threw a sample
                              Message 14 of 25 , May 4, 2010
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                                I have to question that vinegaroon won't work on chrome tanned.

                                I'm pretty sure my leather in question is chrome tanned. Just as an
                                experiment I threw a sample scrap into a jar with a bit of vinegar, just
                                enough to soak it to see if I might get some kind of darkening reaction.

                                I'm not sure that it did anything *except* where there are holes where I
                                think it was nailed and stretched at some point, there is a radius of
                                black now around each of the holes. Vinegar reacting with the trance
                                iron/steel at the holes?

                                Not saying anyone is wrong, just raising the question and pointing out
                                what happened.

                                On 5/3/2010 5:02 PM, Diane Sawyer Dooley wrote:
                                >
                                > Are you guys talking about tea dyeing vegtan or chrome tan, though?
                                > (BTW, if anyone's interested, vinegaroon won't work on chrome tan. The
                                > chemistry isn't right for it.)
                                >
                                > Tasha
                                >
                                > >
                                > >From: Michael Parker <ArchAngel13@...
                                > <mailto:ArchAngel13%40gmail.com>>
                                > >To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                                > <mailto:medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > >Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 5:57:57 PM
                                > >Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem:
                                > down, dirty, quick
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > >>
                                > >
                                > >I've heard of using both tea and coffee to dye fabrics. I would imagine
                                > >>they might work just fine on leather. If it would give you the color
                                > you're
                                > >>looking for, then it should be easy to try on a small piece.
                                > >
                                > >>On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Ron McKenna <mckron@shaw. ca> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>> I've had really good luck with tea. Several tea bags in water and
                                > give the
                                > >>> pieces a tea bath. Never did it with garment weight leathers though.
                                > >>>
                                > >>> Haven't tried motor-oil. Have to try that!
                                > >>>
                                > >>> Nathanial
                                > >>>
                                > >
                                > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Timothy Park
                                That sounds like a good bet. I ll be out at the farm store later. I m either going to try this or adding a little dye to neat s foot oil before applying (which
                                Message 15 of 25 , May 4, 2010
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                                  That sounds like a good bet. I'll be out at the farm store later. I'm
                                  either going to try this or adding a little dye to neat's foot oil
                                  before applying (which might be the same thing in essence).

                                  Thank you all for the input.

                                  The motor oil ... it will get that naturally. As I thought about it I'd
                                  steer clear of that. There are carcinogenic additives to most petroleum
                                  lubricants. 3-in-1 the classic treatment to soften a baseball glove has
                                  benzene as a major component. Marevel Mystery Oil, my favorite additive
                                  and penetrant is mostly benzene. Just as two examples.

                                  On 5/3/2010 8:01 PM, Ron Charlotte wrote:
                                  >
                                  > At 02:39 PM 5/3/2010, Timothy Park wrote:
                                  > >I need a method to quickly darken or age leather leggings.
                                  >
                                  > Tea is one of the classic prop distressing tricks. You can use that
                                  > first, but I'm not sure how well it will take on chrome tan.
                                  >
                                  > For what you are after, probably a medium brown liquid shoe polish
                                  > will do the trick. Don't use the bottle applicator, pop the top and
                                  > pour it into a disposable/recyclable pan and use a wad of clean rag
                                  > or sponge to apply the stuff less than evenly. Go a bit heavier in
                                  > the thigh area, and _tops_ of the bends and creases you have already
                                  > worn into the leggings (That's how my leather work aprons tend to
                                  > wear). Use a piece of coarse cloth (a chunk of old denim works) to
                                  > buff the wear zones more than the rest of the leggings. Then give the
                                  > whole thing a rubdown with a cloth moistened with just enough
                                  > neatsfoot oil to top dress it. That last will blend out the applied
                                  > polish.
                                  >
                                  > al Thaalibi ---- An Crosaire, Trimaris
                                  > Ron Charlotte -- Gainesville, FL
                                  > ronch2@... <mailto:ronch2%40bellsouth.net> or
                                  > afn03234@... <mailto:afn03234%40afn.org>
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • AlbionWood
                                  The MSDS for Marvel Mystery Oil does not list Benzene, and states None of the ingredients in this product is listed as a carcinogen by NTP, IARC, or OSHA.
                                  Message 16 of 25 , May 4, 2010
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                                    The MSDS for Marvel Mystery Oil does not list Benzene, and states "None
                                    of the ingredients in this product is listed as a carcinogen by NTP,
                                    IARC, or OSHA." (Benzene is a known human carcinogen.) Similarly for
                                    3-in-1, which is 97% hydrotreated heavy naphthenic oil, 3% "proprietary
                                    additive" and is listed as having no carcinogenic constituents.

                                    What's the source of your assertion that benzene is present in these
                                    products?

                                    Cheers,
                                    Tim
                                    (HazMat consultant in a previous incarnation)


                                    Timothy Park wrote:
                                    There are carcinogenic additives to most petroleum
                                    > lubricants. 3-in-1 the classic treatment to soften a baseball glove has
                                    > benzene as a major component. Marevel Mystery Oil, my favorite additive
                                    > and penetrant is mostly benzene. Just as two examples.
                                    >
                                  • Diane Sawyer Dooley
                                    The vinegaroon works because the iron oxide in the acidic vinegar reacts with the tannins in the vegetable tanned leather. Chrome-tanned leather does not
                                    Message 17 of 25 , May 4, 2010
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                                      The vinegaroon works because the iron oxide in the acidic vinegar reacts with the tannins in the vegetable tanned leather. Chrome-tanned leather does not contain those tannins. If the leather you have did not change color except around those holes, then yes, it may very well be traces of iron or steel around those holes.

                                      Tasja



                                      >
                                      >From: Timothy Park <park.ta@...>
                                      >To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                                      >Sent: Tue, May 4, 2010 12:20:14 PM
                                      >Subject: Re: [medieval-leather]Vinegaroon and Chrome tanned WAS: " Leather dying/aging problem: down, dirty, quick"
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >I have to question that vinegaroon won't work on chrome tanned.
                                      >
                                      >>I'm pretty sure my leather in question is chrome tanned. Just as an
                                      >>experiment I threw a sample scrap into a jar with a bit of vinegar, just
                                      >>enough to soak it to see if I might get some kind of darkening reaction.
                                      >
                                      >>I'm not sure that it did anything *except* where there are holes where I
                                      >>think it was nailed and stretched at some point, there is a radius of
                                      >>black now around each of the holes. Vinegar reacting with the trance
                                      >>iron/steel at the holes?
                                      >
                                      >>Not saying anyone is wrong, just raising the question and pointing out
                                      >>what happened.
                                      >
                                      >>On 5/3/2010 5:02 PM, Diane Sawyer Dooley wrote:
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Are you guys talking about tea dyeing vegtan or chrome tan, though?
                                      >>> (BTW, if anyone's interested, vinegaroon won't work on chrome tan. The
                                      >>> chemistry isn't right for it.)
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Tasha
                                      >>>
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> >From: Michael Parker <ArchAngel13@ gmail.com
                                      >>> <mailto:ArchAngel13 %40gmail. com>>
                                      >>> >To: medieval-leather@ yahoogroups. com
                                      >>> <mailto:medieval- leather%40yahoog roups.com>
                                      >>> >Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 5:57:57 PM
                                      >>> >Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] Re: Leather dying/aging problem:
                                      >>> down, dirty, quick
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> > >
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> > >
                                      >>> >>
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> >I've heard of using both tea and coffee to dye fabrics. I would imagine
                                      >>> >>they might work just fine on leather. If it would give you the color
                                      >>> you're
                                      >>> >>looking for, then it should be easy to try on a small piece.
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> >>On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 5:39 PM, Ron McKenna <mckron@shaw. ca> wrote:
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> >>>
                                      >>> >>>
                                      >>> >>> I've had really good luck with tea. Several tea bags in water and
                                      >>> give the
                                      >>> >>> pieces a tea bath. Never did it with garment weight leathers though.
                                      >>> >>>
                                      >>> >>> Haven't tried motor-oil. Have to try that!
                                      >>> >>>
                                      >>> >>> Nathanial
                                      >>> >>>
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> >
                                      >>> >
                                      >>>
                                      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >
                                      >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Timothy Park
                                      I stand corrected then. My source (if I get a chance I will look for it, but it can t be high on the list right now) was a MSDS for the home kind of web
                                      Message 18 of 25 , May 4, 2010
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                                        I stand corrected then.

                                        My source (if I get a chance I will look for it, but it can't be high on
                                        the list right now) was a "MSDS for the home" kind of web site. In the
                                        section for "hobbists" was a list that said benzene was in those.

                                        I'm, frankly, glad it's not because with the machine work I end up doing
                                        there is no helping getting that stuff on my hands at times and I've
                                        been fretful since reading that.

                                        Still, not sure I'd want motor oil on something that I'd be wearing for
                                        hours.

                                        On 5/4/2010 3:36 PM, AlbionWood wrote:
                                        >
                                        > The MSDS for Marvel Mystery Oil does not list Benzene, and states "None
                                        > of the ingredients in this product is listed as a carcinogen by NTP,
                                        > IARC, or OSHA." (Benzene is a known human carcinogen.) Similarly for
                                        > 3-in-1, which is 97% hydrotreated heavy naphthenic oil, 3% "proprietary
                                        > additive" and is listed as having no carcinogenic constituents.
                                        >
                                        > What's the source of your assertion that benzene is present in these
                                        > products?
                                        >
                                        > Cheers,
                                        > Tim
                                        > (HazMat consultant in a previous incarnation)
                                        >
                                        > Timothy Park wrote:
                                        > There are carcinogenic additives to most petroleum
                                        > > lubricants. 3-in-1 the classic treatment to soften a baseball glove has
                                        > > benzene as a major component. Marevel Mystery Oil, my favorite additive
                                        > > and penetrant is mostly benzene. Just as two examples.
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Favour
                                        Greetings All, I used to work for a custom sword maker at several renfaires. These were high end blades (up to $10k), and the sheaths/scabbards could run up
                                        Message 19 of 25 , May 4, 2010
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                                          Greetings All,

                                          I used to work for a custom sword maker at several renfaires. These
                                          were high end blades (up to $10k), and the sheaths/scabbards could run
                                          up to $500. Our "secret" sword oil was actually cheap 10-30 weight, and
                                          we used a lot because we were right off the Gulf Coast in very high
                                          humidity conditions. Our recommendation to our patrons was to fill the
                                          new sheath/scabbard full of motor oil, let it soak overnight and then
                                          let it drain upside down over a coffee can. The sheaths/scabbards
                                          become self-oilers. It's anecdotal, but it worked great. We never had
                                          any complaints about degradation of the leather or thread. I've
                                          personally had fifteen year old sheaths that had that treatment and
                                          everything was fine. I currently have antiques, including a Bavarian
                                          hand-un-halb dating to about 1445, that I carry at events in motor oiled
                                          sheaths. I've never had a problem, and it stops rust cold. Oh, and it
                                          leaves undyed tooling leather with a rich tan/brown color. My only
                                          suggestion is to use a lighter weight, say 5-20. And now that I think
                                          of it, I wonder how synthetic motor oil would work? Have to get a quart
                                          and try it on some scrap.

                                          Best regards,

                                          Friedrich
                                          Favour Leather Works


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Michael Parker
                                          Great info, Friedrich, thanks! But how does this leave the outside surface of the sheath? Is it always going to be oiling my hands and clothes as it does the
                                          Message 20 of 25 , May 4, 2010
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                                            Great info, Friedrich, thanks! But how does this leave the outside surface
                                            of the sheath? Is it always going to be oiling my hands and clothes as it
                                            does the blade?

                                            ~Valinn

                                            On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Favour <favour@...> wrote:

                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Greetings All,
                                            >
                                            > I used to work for a custom sword maker at several renfaires. These
                                            > were high end blades (up to $10k), and the sheaths/scabbards could run
                                            > up to $500. Our "secret" sword oil was actually cheap 10-30 weight, and
                                            > we used a lot because we were right off the Gulf Coast in very high
                                            > humidity conditions. Our recommendation to our patrons was to fill the
                                            > new sheath/scabbard full of motor oil, let it soak overnight and then
                                            > let it drain upside down over a coffee can. The sheaths/scabbards
                                            > become self-oilers. It's anecdotal, but it worked great. We never had
                                            > any complaints about degradation of the leather or thread. I've
                                            > personally had fifteen year old sheaths that had that treatment and
                                            > everything was fine. I currently have antiques, including a Bavarian
                                            > hand-un-halb dating to about 1445, that I carry at events in motor oiled
                                            > sheaths. I've never had a problem, and it stops rust cold. Oh, and it
                                            > leaves undyed tooling leather with a rich tan/brown color. My only
                                            > suggestion is to use a lighter weight, say 5-20. And now that I think
                                            > of it, I wonder how synthetic motor oil would work? Have to get a quart
                                            > and try it on some scrap.
                                            >
                                            > Best regards,
                                            >
                                            > Friedrich
                                            > Favour Leather Works
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Favour
                                            Greetings Valinn, The leather used in the sheaths and scabbards, front and back, is a nominal 8 oz veg tan, dyed on the outward facing side only. Several
                                            Message 21 of 25 , May 5, 2010
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                                              Greetings Valinn,

                                              The leather used in the sheaths and scabbards, front and back, is a
                                              nominal 8 oz veg tan, dyed on the outward facing side only. Several
                                              types of final finishes/waxes were used. My preference for dye was/is
                                              Fiebing's Oil Dye and final finish is acrylic. Some were embossed or
                                              tooled, most were black. These swords, including the antiques, are
                                              sharp, so there is a leather spacer (thickness depending on blade
                                              thickness) sandwiched between the two sides to protect the thread. All
                                              sewing was done on a tack machine (Adler, I think) for very tight
                                              seams. Punching holes and hand sewing should also give a tight seam.
                                              Our patrons all wore expensive costume and I don't recall any complaints
                                              of oil stains from the scabbards and sheaths. Personally, I've had no
                                              problems. It's been at least five years since I poured oil into the new
                                              scabbard for the Bavarian, and it's dry on the outside of the seams with
                                              no degradation of the outside finish. My wife and I have had at least
                                              thirty scabbards (swords) and sheaths (daggers) that were oiled heavily
                                              on the inside with no bleed to the outside.

                                              It's anecdotal like the rest of it, but I would suggest two things.
                                              Make sure you drain all the oil out, i.e. let it drip dry. And make
                                              sure your seams are good and tight. Whether you use a blade spacer or
                                              not, contact cement would probably be a good idea. I know our leather
                                              craftsman used it. Also, none of this might hold true for synthetic
                                              oil. It's known for finding weak spots in gaskets and oozing through.

                                              Another thing to consider is oil's effect on wooden grips. We used
                                              exotic hardwoods that were hand finished. The oil didn't seem to bother
                                              them or the marine epoxy we sometimes used. It did darken the wood as
                                              any oil would do. This may be dependent on the nature of the wood's
                                              final finish.

                                              Best regards,

                                              Friedrich


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                                            • Michael Parker
                                              Excellent info! Thanks Friedrich. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              Message 22 of 25 , May 6, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Excellent info! Thanks Friedrich.

                                                On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Favour <favour@...> wrote:

                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Greetings Valinn,
                                                >
                                                > The leather used in the sheaths and scabbards, front and back, is a
                                                > nominal 8 oz veg tan, dyed on the outward facing side only. Several
                                                > types of final finishes/waxes were used. My preference for dye was/is
                                                > Fiebing's Oil Dye and final finish is acrylic. Some were embossed or
                                                > tooled, most were black. These swords, including the antiques, are
                                                > sharp, so there is a leather spacer (thickness depending on blade
                                                > thickness) sandwiched between the two sides to protect the thread. All
                                                > sewing was done on a tack machine (Adler, I think) for very tight
                                                > seams. Punching holes and hand sewing should also give a tight seam.
                                                > Our patrons all wore expensive costume and I don't recall any complaints
                                                > of oil stains from the scabbards and sheaths. Personally, I've had no
                                                > problems. It's been at least five years since I poured oil into the new
                                                > scabbard for the Bavarian, and it's dry on the outside of the seams with
                                                > no degradation of the outside finish. My wife and I have had at least
                                                > thirty scabbards (swords) and sheaths (daggers) that were oiled heavily
                                                > on the inside with no bleed to the outside.
                                                >
                                                > It's anecdotal like the rest of it, but I would suggest two things.
                                                > Make sure you drain all the oil out, i.e. let it drip dry. And make
                                                > sure your seams are good and tight. Whether you use a blade spacer or
                                                > not, contact cement would probably be a good idea. I know our leather
                                                > craftsman used it. Also, none of this might hold true for synthetic
                                                > oil. It's known for finding weak spots in gaskets and oozing through.
                                                >
                                                > Another thing to consider is oil's effect on wooden grips. We used
                                                > exotic hardwoods that were hand finished. The oil didn't seem to bother
                                                > them or the marine epoxy we sometimes used. It did darken the wood as
                                                > any oil would do. This may be dependent on the nature of the wood's
                                                > final finish.
                                                >
                                                > Best regards,
                                                >
                                                > Friedrich
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >


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