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[Carolingia] Semi-OT: A puzzling thing

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  • Robert Huff
    ... It has been suggested this might be a leather-working tool; it is not familiar to me. Does anyone here recognize it? Diego Mundoz
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 20, 2009
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      This came across another mailing list:

      > I have a picture of this
      >
      > http://www.wiglaf.org/~aaronm/travel/paris2009/troyes/Maison%20de%20l%27outil/Thing.jpg
      >
      > and another of a different instance of the same tool
      >
      > http://www.wiglaf.org/~aaronm/travel/paris2009/troyes/Maison%20de%20l%27outil/Thing%20closeup.jpg
      >
      > but I haven't a clue what they are. Does anybody recognize them?
      > The handle of the first one is in the shape of a horse, but it
      > doesn't lppk like any sort of farrier's tool I've seen before...
      >
      > The first one is probably 18th century, the second 19th...

      It has been suggested this might be a leather-working tool; it
      is not familiar to me. Does anyone here recognize it?


      Diego Mundoz
    • siggy@toltusa.com
      I see several old horse twitches and an old fashion horse mouth speculum.  Some could be castration tools. knocking teeth out  (wolf teeth)  or horn
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 20, 2009
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        I see several old horse twitches and an old fashion horse mouth speculum.  Some could be castration tools. knocking teeth out  (wolf teeth)  or horn removal.    May be even roaching a mane.  Put it all together and ? cool tools
         
        Sigrid
         
         
         
         
         
        > I have a picture of this
        >
        > http://www.wiglaf.org/~aaronm/ travel/paris2009 /troyes/Maison% 20de%20l% 27outil/Thing. jpg
        >
        > and another of a different instance of the same tool
        >
        > http://www.wiglaf org/~aaronm/ travel/paris2009 /troyes/Maison% 20de%20l% 27outil/Thing% 20closeup. jpg
        >
        > but I haven't a clue what they are. Does anybody recognize them?
        > The handle of the first one is in the shape of a horse, but it
        > doesn't lppk like any sort of farrier's tool I've seen before...
        >
        > The first one is probably 18th century, the second 19th...

        It has been suggested this might be a leather-working tool; it
        is not familiar to me. Does anyone here recognize it?

        Diego Mundoz












        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ladygzb
        You could ask this guy: http://55tools.blogspot.com/
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 21, 2009
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          You could ask this guy:
          http://55tools.blogspot.com/

          --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, Robert Huff <roberthuff@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > This came across another mailing list:
          >
          > > I have a picture of this
          > >
          > > http://www.wiglaf.org/~aaronm/travel/paris2009/troyes/Maison%20de%20l%27outil/Thing.jpg
          > >
          > > and another of a different instance of the same tool
          > >
          > > http://www.wiglaf.org/~aaronm/travel/paris2009/troyes/Maison%20de%20l%27outil/Thing%20closeup.jpg
          > >
          > > but I haven't a clue what they are. Does anybody recognize them?
          > > The handle of the first one is in the shape of a horse, but it
          > > doesn't lppk like any sort of farrier's tool I've seen before...
          > >
          > > The first one is probably 18th century, the second 19th...
          >
          > It has been suggested this might be a leather-working tool; it
          > is not familiar to me. Does anyone here recognize it?
          >
          >
          > Diego Mundoz
          >
        • B Gr
          as that they are many and have onimtation on them could be strap pullers for moving straps thru slots.  or even boot pulls for putting on those silly high
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 16, 2010
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            as that they are many and have onimtation on them could be strap pullers for moving straps thru slots.  or even boot pulls for putting on those silly high toped boots.
            without seeing bottoms for wear marks hard to say. but defenaly not a tool for cutting or marking leather.
            lady Johannette

            --- On Sun, 12/20/09, siggy@... <siggy@...> wrote:


            From: siggy@... <siggy@...>
            Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] [Carolingia] Semi-OT: A puzzling thing
            To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: Norsefolk_2@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 8:29 PM


             




            I see several old horse twitches and an old fashion horse mouth speculum.  Some could be castration tools. knocking teeth out  (wolf teeth)  or horn removal.    May be even roaching a mane.  Put it all together and ? cool tools
             
            Sigrid
             
             
             
             
             
            > I have a picture of this
            >
            > http://www.wiglaf org/~aaronm/ travel/paris2009 /troyes/Maison% 20de%20l% 27outil/Thing. jpg
            >
            > and another of a different instance of the same tool
            >
            > http://www.wiglaf org/~aaronm/ travel/paris2009 /troyes/Maison% 20de%20l% 27outil/Thing% 20closeup. jpg
            >
            > but I haven't a clue what they are. Does anybody recognize them?
            > The handle of the first one is in the shape of a horse, but it
            > doesn't lppk like any sort of farrier's tool I've seen before...
            >
            > The first one is probably 18th century, the second 19th...

            It has been suggested this might be a leather-working tool; it
            is not familiar to me. Does anyone here recognize it?

            Diego Mundoz

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Timothy Park
            Working with a friend who does black power things. He just finished a *lovely* swivel breech flintlock pistol. Two barrels and locks, over and under, but one
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 20, 2010
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              Working with a friend who does black power things.

              He just finished a *lovely* swivel breech flintlock pistol. Two barrels
              and locks, over and under, but one trigger mechanism. The barrels are
              rotated 180 to bring the other into line for use.

              So this is a bulky, but valuable weapon, and therefore Stuart desires a
              holster of some sort for it.

              Having done any number of knife sheaths I'm familiar with sewing wet
              leather to a snug form.

              And I'm writing here to check my idea for a covered holster for this.

              My thought is to create a flat backed holster similar to the saddle
              holsters for hussars and other cavalry in Continental Europe around
              early 19th Century. (In case you care to find a picture). And to render
              it with vegetable tanned leather (given what chrome tan does to steel).

              My thought is to pad the pistol with paper or some kind of shipping wrap
              at the trigger and locks, and then wrap the whole in a mix of saran wrap
              and vet wrap to protect it from wet. Then I'd position it and secure it
              with tape on a piece of plywood rather oversize for the project. Lay wet
              leather over this and tack it down similar to tacking to a last for a
              last formed turn shoe, but this will not be turned.

              I may also form the holster cover similarly by tacking that in place,
              flesh side up, before positioning the pistol, and then putting the outer
              holster body in place as above. Then pull the flap over, shape it some
              and leave the whole to dry.

              Once barely damp I'd punch the stitch holes while it was in place, then
              trim, and trace the trim lines (to get the pattern for the back).

              Cut, dampen and punch the backing. Stitch such loops or straps as
              necessary to the back. Stitch cover to back. Attach any hardware to
              front. Stitch front to back.

              How does that sound? Any suggestions or criticisms?

              Sincerely,

              Timothy, a Blacksmith
              Raventurtle Forge
              Rockford, IL (for now)
            • Shawn Zoladz
              That s how I would do it. Except I would let the leather dry after you form it. It will keep its form better during assembly. -Shawn W. Zoladz Major
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 20, 2010
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                That's how I would do it. Except I would let the leather dry after you form it. It will keep its form better during assembly.

                -Shawn W. Zoladz



                Major Productions, High Quality, Hand Made Leather Goods.



                Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/majorzolz

                --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Timothy Park <park.ta@...> wrote:

                From: Timothy Park <park.ta@...>
                Subject: [medieval-leather] Technique question: out of period, technically
                To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 3:01 PM







                 









                Working with a friend who does black power things.



                He just finished a *lovely* swivel breech flintlock pistol. Two barrels

                and locks, over and under, but one trigger mechanism. The barrels are

                rotated 180 to bring the other into line for use.



                So this is a bulky, but valuable weapon, and therefore Stuart desires a

                holster of some sort for it.



                Having done any number of knife sheaths I'm familiar with sewing wet

                leather to a snug form.



                And I'm writing here to check my idea for a covered holster for this.



                My thought is to create a flat backed holster similar to the saddle

                holsters for hussars and other cavalry in Continental Europe around

                early 19th Century. (In case you care to find a picture). And to render

                it with vegetable tanned leather (given what chrome tan does to steel).



                My thought is to pad the pistol with paper or some kind of shipping wrap

                at the trigger and locks, and then wrap the whole in a mix of saran wrap

                and vet wrap to protect it from wet. Then I'd position it and secure it

                with tape on a piece of plywood rather oversize for the project. Lay wet

                leather over this and tack it down similar to tacking to a last for a

                last formed turn shoe, but this will not be turned.



                I may also form the holster cover similarly by tacking that in place,

                flesh side up, before positioning the pistol, and then putting the outer

                holster body in place as above. Then pull the flap over, shape it some

                and leave the whole to dry.



                Once barely damp I'd punch the stitch holes while it was in place, then

                trim, and trace the trim lines (to get the pattern for the back).



                Cut, dampen and punch the backing. Stitch such loops or straps as

                necessary to the back. Stitch cover to back. Attach any hardware to

                front. Stitch front to back.



                How does that sound? Any suggestions or criticisms?



                Sincerely,



                Timothy, a Blacksmith

                Raventurtle Forge

                Rockford, IL (for now)




















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Henry Plouse
                I made a formed veg-tanned leather holster for a very long barrelled matchlock pistol replica, using essentially the same technique which you describe, with
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 21, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  I made a formed veg-tanned leather holster for a very long barrelled matchlock pistol replica, using essentially the same technique which you describe, with the exception that I let the formed pieces dry completely and used a very small drill bit to make the sewing holes, rather than a punch.  Punching dampened leather runs the risk of deforming the shape (and dimpling the leather).  Do note that I use the "Cariadoc Method II" on the leather, which involves using 165 F water for about 45 to 60 secs, so that the leather not only forms but hardens.  I also used a 9-10 oz. leather, tho' I've done similar forming (albeit for knife/seax sheaths) with leather as thin as 4 oz. and as thick as 15 oz.  I think the 10 oz. works best in this application, however.

                  NOW, hardened leather can rub the finish on both the wood and metal parts of the gun, so, before sewing it all together, I lined the interior portions of the sheath with chamois (the stuff they sell for cleaning cars works just fine and will not damage the metal - you can get perfectly good chamois for the purpose at "Harbor Freight Tools" for about $10 for 3.5 sq. ft.).  You can easily attach it to the leather with a product like "Tanner's Leather Weld", which works well enough that additional fastening is not necessary, tho' it is my practice to roll the edges under and sew it to the formed pieces at the exposed edges (leaving about a 3/8th inch welt).  Extend the chamois far enough everywhere else to be secured by the stitching where the formed section meets the back section.  The natural chamois color, btw, looks lovely juxtaposed against the dyed black leather and the chamois will hold a nice amount of gun oil so that the gun remains nicely
                  lubricated within the holster, without feeling "greasy" on withdrawal of the weapon.

                  I've also done some sheaths with this method, however, I like to line my sheaths with shearling (which is period, btw), which can also be oiled lightly for protection against rust (in the old days, they used natural, unprocessed shearling and relied on the natural lanolin for lubrication, however, most available shearling now has been thoroughly cleaned of its oils and the oil must be added - I like "Break-Out" gun oil for the job).  If you do that, of course, you need to wrap the blade (or pistol) with something which will allow the extra room to accommodate the shearling.  I find that either 1/4 inch closed cell foam or multiple layers of thick craft foam works well, after which you put the Saran wrap and tape on.  The nice part about the craft foam is that you can differentially build up the layers for a better fit (and a nicer exterior contour).

                  Hope that helps.  Enjoy.

                  YOS,
                  ALRIC, Glyn Dwfn/An Tir  




                  ________________________________
                  From: Timothy Park <park.ta@...>
                  To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wed, January 20, 2010 1:01:43 PM
                  Subject: [medieval-leather] Technique question: out of period, technically

                   
                  Working with a friend who does black power things.

                  He just finished a *lovely* swivel breech flintlock pistol. Two barrels
                  and locks, over and under, but one trigger mechanism. The barrels are
                  rotated 180 to bring the other into line for use.

                  So this is a bulky, but valuable weapon, and therefore Stuart desires a
                  holster of some sort for it.

                  Having done any number of knife sheaths I'm familiar with sewing wet
                  leather to a snug form.

                  And I'm writing here to check my idea for a covered holster for this.

                  My thought is to create a flat backed holster similar to the saddle
                  holsters for hussars and other cavalry in Continental Europe around
                  early 19th Century. (In case you care to find a picture). And to render
                  it with vegetable tanned leather (given what chrome tan does to steel).

                  My thought is to pad the pistol with paper or some kind of shipping wrap
                  at the trigger and locks, and then wrap the whole in a mix of saran wrap
                  and vet wrap to protect it from wet. Then I'd position it and secure it
                  with tape on a piece of plywood rather oversize for the project. Lay wet
                  leather over this and tack it down similar to tacking to a last for a
                  last formed turn shoe, but this will not be turned.

                  I may also form the holster cover similarly by tacking that in place,
                  flesh side up, before positioning the pistol, and then putting the outer
                  holster body in place as above. Then pull the flap over, shape it some
                  and leave the whole to dry.

                  Once barely damp I'd punch the stitch holes while it was in place, then
                  trim, and trace the trim lines (to get the pattern for the back).

                  Cut, dampen and punch the backing. Stitch such loops or straps as
                  necessary to the back. Stitch cover to back. Attach any hardware to
                  front. Stitch front to back.

                  How does that sound? Any suggestions or criticisms?

                  Sincerely,

                  Timothy, a Blacksmith
                  Raventurtle Forge
                  Rockford, IL (for now)






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • lukeknowlton
                  Alric, Would you have photos you could post of the holsters? I d love to take a look at them. YIS, Luke Knowlton
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 22, 2010
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                    Alric,

                    Would you have photos you could post of the holsters? I'd love to take a look at them.

                    YIS,

                    Luke Knowlton


                    --- In medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com, Henry Plouse <ozymandias1951@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I made a formed veg-tanned leather holster for a very long barrelled matchlock pistol replica, using essentially the same technique which you describe, with the exception that I let the formed pieces dry completely and used a very small drill bit to make the sewing holes, rather than a punch.  Punching dampened leather runs the risk of deforming the shape (and dimpling the leather).  Do note that I use the "Cariadoc Method II" on the leather, which involves using 165 F water for about 45 to 60 secs, so that the leather not only forms but hardens.  I also used a 9-10 oz. leather, tho' I've done similar forming (albeit for knife/seax sheaths) with leather as thin as 4 oz. and as thick as 15 oz.  I think the 10 oz. works best in this application, however.
                    >
                    > NOW, hardened leather can rub the finish on both the wood and metal parts of the gun, so, before sewing it all together, I lined the interior portions of the sheath with chamois (the stuff they sell for cleaning cars works just fine and will not damage the metal - you can get perfectly good chamois for the purpose at "Harbor Freight Tools" for about $10 for 3.5 sq. ft.).  You can easily attach it to the leather with a product like "Tanner's Leather Weld", which works well enough that additional fastening is not necessary, tho' it is my practice to roll the edges under and sew it to the formed pieces at the exposed edges (leaving about a 3/8th inch welt).  Extend the chamois far enough everywhere else to be secured by the stitching where the formed section meets the back section.  The natural chamois color, btw, looks lovely juxtaposed against the dyed black leather and the chamois will hold a nice amount of gun oil so that the gun remains nicely
                    > lubricated within the holster, without feeling "greasy" on withdrawal of the weapon.
                    >
                    > I've also done some sheaths with this method, however, I like to line my sheaths with shearling (which is period, btw), which can also be oiled lightly for protection against rust (in the old days, they used natural, unprocessed shearling and relied on the natural lanolin for lubrication, however, most available shearling now has been thoroughly cleaned of its oils and the oil must be added - I like "Break-Out" gun oil for the job).  If you do that, of course, you need to wrap the blade (or pistol) with something which will allow the extra room to accommodate the shearling.  I find that either 1/4 inch closed cell foam or multiple layers of thick craft foam works well, after which you put the Saran wrap and tape on.  The nice part about the craft foam is that you can differentially build up the layers for a better fit (and a nicer exterior contour).
                    >
                    > Hope that helps.  Enjoy.
                    >
                    > YOS,
                    > ALRIC, Glyn Dwfn/An Tir  
                    >
                  • Alan Andrist
                    It’s my understanding that the mystery item is a planning chisel used to level a horse’s hoof before it receives a shoe. The hoof is soft enough to be
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 27, 2010
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                      It’s my understanding that the mystery item is a planning chisel used to level a horse’s hoof before it receives a shoe. The hoof is soft enough to be pared away without hurting the horse. The big rasps used today require less skill and are multipurpose.



                      -- Alan



                      From: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com [mailto:medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of B Gr
                      Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2010 3:09 PM
                      To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] [Carolingia] Semi-OT: A puzzling thing





                      as that they are many and have onimtation on them could be strap pullers for moving straps thru slots. or even boot pulls for putting on those silly high toped boots.
                      without seeing bottoms for wear marks hard to say. but defenaly not a tool for cutting or marking leather.
                      lady Johannette

                      --- On Sun, 12/20/09, siggy@... <mailto:siggy%40toltusa.com> <siggy@... <mailto:siggy%40toltusa.com> > wrote:

                      From: siggy@... <mailto:siggy%40toltusa.com> <siggy@... <mailto:siggy%40toltusa.com> >
                      Subject: Re: [medieval-leather] [Carolingia] Semi-OT: A puzzling thing
                      To: medieval-leather@yahoogroups.com <mailto:medieval-leather%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Cc: Norsefolk_2@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Norsefolk_2%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Sunday, December 20, 2009, 8:29 PM



                      I see several old horse twitches and an old fashion horse mouth speculum. Some could be castration tools. knocking teeth out (wolf teeth) or horn removal. May be even roaching a mane. Put it all together and ? cool tools

                      Sigrid





                      > I have a picture of this
                      >
                      > http://www.wiglaf org/~aaronm/ travel/paris2009 /troyes/Maison% 20de%20l% 27outil/Thing. jpg
                      >
                      > and another of a different instance of the same tool
                      >
                      > http://www.wiglaf org/~aaronm/ travel/paris2009 /troyes/Maison% 20de%20l% 27outil/Thing% 20closeup. jpg
                      >
                      > but I haven't a clue what they are. Does anybody recognize them?
                      > The handle of the first one is in the shape of a horse, but it
                      > doesn't lppk like any sort of farrier's tool I've seen before...
                      >
                      > The first one is probably 18th century, the second 19th...

                      It has been suggested this might be a leather-working tool; it
                      is not familiar to me. Does anyone here recognize it?

                      Diego Mundoz

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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